That is all. Until you bring operatives down to the same level as the other classes, I see no reason why Operatives are allowed to queue for PVP and utterly destroy everyone, often able to handle 1v3s no problem, prevent 4+ players from capping a base, heal like crazy, be immune to EVERYTHING every 2 out of six seconds due to roll, the quick reset on their reflect, blind, insta-stealth, you name it.

I mean if there was a GOD MODE class in PVP, it is defined by Operatives.

It's a cancer class.

And when you have cancer in the game, it's time to get it removed/deleted/destroyed.

No more Operatives in PVP.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

git gud

You’re talking about really good Operatives/Scoundrels that have mastered the class and game mechanics. Those people make up like 2% of the PvP population, if that. The rest of the Operative/Scoundrel players have skills that are somewhere between mediocre and raw sewage. You can’t just ban an entire class because highly skilled players have mastered it enough to make things hard for you.

Normally, I’m not one to join the “git gud” crowd, but this is an exception. Though I will be more courteous and say that perhaps you should pick a class, master it, and figure out how you can counter Operatives with it.

often able to handle 1v3s no problem

well if the other 3 players have **** gear otherwise i highly doubt that

lets be honest if the minigame has players with low rated gear every class trashes them

otherwise i would say operatives are one of the less powerful classes they are just insanely annoying and if you play one and roll around like a ******** you get ignored usually which is nice:D

on top of it the servers/netcode is the bigger problem not updating a roll propelry for example

and again i cant stress enough the gear problem in pvp - makes a lot of players look way more powerful than they actually are

well if the other 3 players have **** gear otherwise i highly doubt that

 

lets be honest if the minigame has players with low rated gear every class trashes them

 

otherwise i would say operatives are one of the less powerful classes they are just insanely annoying and if you play one and roll around like a ******** you get ignored usually which is nice:D

 

on top of it the servers/netcode is the bigger problem not updating a roll propelry for example

 

and again i cant stress enough the gear problem in pvp - makes a lot of players look way more powerful than they actually are

I realize this may be a preference thing, but gear defining strength in PvP seems like asinine design to me. Like I could understand the justification for some minor stat min-maxing making a difference, since it's an RPG, but if gear makes a big difference, then mediocre players with BiS gear start thinking they are gods and decent players with crap gear get discouraged from trying. After all, as can be observed, part of anything sport-like is a mental game of belief and morale, so gear skews that by throwing off the accuracy of judging how you stack up and where you can improve.

I realize this may be a preference thing, but gear defining strength in PvP seems like asinine design to me. Like I could understand the justification for some minor stat min-maxing making a difference, since it's an RPG, but if gear makes a big difference, then mediocre players with BiS gear start thinking they are gods and decent players with crap gear get discouraged from trying. After all, as can be observed, part of anything sport-like is a mental game of belief and morale, so gear skews that by throwing off the accuracy of judging how you stack up and where you can improve.

This argument would have merit if gear was difficult to obtain in this game. It is not. Or at least it hasn't been throughout 6.0. Getting a good tactical and set bonus for your class is really all you need to be competitive with anyone. Properly aligning your stats, getting the right augs and amps, min/maxing mods and enhancements, are all quite small differences overall.

Set bonus and tactical do make a big difference, but again, they've been easy to obtain so I don't see how that should be an issue for anyone. This is still a mmo.

This argument would have merit if gear was difficult to obtain in this game. It is not. Or at least it hasn't been throughout 6.0. Getting a good tactical and set bonus for your class is really all you need to be competitive with anyone. Properly aligning your stats, getting the right augs and amps, min/maxing mods and enhancements, are all quite small differences overall.

 

Set bonus and tactical do make a big difference, but again, they've been easy to obtain so I don't see how that should be an issue for anyone. This is still a mmo.

How easy is it if someone only PvPs to get the gear? Do they have to endure being curbstomped to get to an adequate place? Because if so, that seems like the kind of thing that would turn off a competitive PvPer from entering the PvP scene at all. Getting their behind kicked by raiders who come in with BiS gear. Am I missing something here or is that a fairly accurate possibility? I'm trying to be open minded about this cause I don't have the best understanding of all the detail ins and outs for this game's PvP in 6.0, but it's hard to see what benefit it serves in PvP overall, other than allowing some mediocre players to stomp on players who aren't geared properly. But some people like to do premades just so they can stomp others with an unintended advantage, so I'm not exactly surprised if some people like the idea of gearing up for that same reason.

As for it being an MMO, check out GW2's design. Very little of that in the same context. Sometimes what is standard in a game is just that way because of what it was modeled after. Idk if this particular thing is WoW's influence, but WoW has shaped the standards of the MMO market a lot over the years due to all the studios that patterned their games after it to try to get WoW $$$. Meanwhile, an MMO like the original SWG, its design choices are almost never brought up anywhere, despite it being an MMORPG too; some of its original design choices are so far different from what has become the standard, it's virtually unrecognizable as the same genre.

You’re talking about really good Operatives/Scoundrels that have mastered the class and game mechanics. Those people make up like 2% of the PvP population, if that. The rest of the Operative/Scoundrel players have skills that are somewhere between mediocre and raw sewage. You can’t just ban an entire class because highly skilled players have mastered it enough to make things hard for you.

 

Normally, I’m not one to join the “git gud” crowd, but this is an exception. Though I will be more courteous and say that perhaps you should pick a class, master it, and figure out how you can counter Operatives with it.

I check gear before matches. Everyone is running the recommended sets for their classes. I'm talking about an unrated match where there are 1,2,3,4,5 Operatives. I've seen one operative against 3 equally geared classes keep 3 people from capping a base.

Anyone who does not think that Operatives are OP are those who play them, not the ones who face them.

Yes, I have an Operative and even *I* think they are too OP for PVP. That roll immunity is GOD MODE. "Hey look at me roll every six seconds, of that 2 seconds is complete immunity", and with latency, most people blow their ability to stop an operative. With evasion on a lowered cool down, hots that reduce your damage by 6%, double stuns, slows, poisons (oh dman I can't get out of combat to heal), it's just retarded.

The developers of the game play Operative. That explains why this GOD MODE class is so OP in PVP. To make it worse, they let one team have a ton of them in a match. Its this kind of crap that makes me want to do what most players do is sit outside of the bases and wait for the loss -- or just leave the match, which many do.

Anyone who does not think that Operatives are OP are those who play them, not the ones who face them.

I only thought operatives arent OP after i played them. Yes they are very annoying and the main reason they are annoying is because of bad servers/netcoide/connection. But lets be honest when he rolls he cant do dmg.

There are other classes that have 100% dmg mitgation while they can still **** on you. And i would argue that the dmg overall isnt that great compared to other classes.

And whats the problem with a operative countering 3 ppl to cap? you should have capped sooner or killed him first.

usally ppl just stand around trying to cap expecting one little stun beein enough:D

I would see the argument in hutball where you cant even counter him because the server doesnt upload the position properly after a roll. But preventing from capping 3 ppl is normal.

Properly aligning your stats, getting the right augs and amps, min/maxing mods and enhancements, are all quite small differences overall.

It still ads up to quite a big difference someone who has a rly good gear setup will be way better off than someone who just slaps a set together and deosnt car about much. And in my opinion the gear difference should be max 5%. And between optimized and basic 306 gear its far mor than that. (probably around 20-30% which is rediculous)

and if you go in with lower than 306 gear youre completly uselss

yes gear is easy to obtain it took me 2 days after i came back to figure out how the gearing system works and get to 306 gear but i had to do pve for that and even with basic 306 gear pvp isnt much fun. you atleast need some set or atleast modded gear

i see an argument for gearing in ranked since its the "pinnacle":D but 8mans should focus more on the pvp and teamplay aspect and best gear should be a tiny advantage

Feed the troll.

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=999890

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=954781

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=996824

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995167

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

And this was just the first page of results.

How easy is it if someone only PvPs to get the gear? Do they have to endure being curbstomped to get to an adequate place? Because if so, that seems like the kind of thing that would turn off a competitive PvPer from entering the PvP scene at all. Getting their behind kicked by raiders who come in with BiS gear. Am I missing something here or is that a fairly accurate possibility? I'm trying to be open minded about this cause I don't have the best understanding of all the detail ins and outs for this game's PvP in 6.0, but it's hard to see what benefit it serves in PvP overall, other than allowing some mediocre players to stomp on players who aren't geared properly. But some people like to do premades just so they can stomp others with an unintended advantage, so I'm not exactly surprised if some people like the idea of gearing up for that same reason.

I can't speak to exactly how pvp gearing will go in 7.0. In 6.0, doing some pve drastically sped up the gearing process. No raids required, just some master mode flashpoints.

As for raiders coming in and destroying pvp veterans due to gear difference...that is unlikely to ever occur. If you put similarly skilled people against each other, gear can make a big difference, but if there is already a big skill gap, a set bonus is unlikely to save them.

I only thought operatives arent OP after i played them. Yes they are very annoying and the main reason they are annoying is because of bad servers/netcoide/connection. But lets be honest when he rolls he cant do dmg.

True, but you're missing the point. You cannot do anything to them either That means 100% damage mitigation, 100% immunity to EVERYTHING, including CC's and with LATENCY between you, him and the server, Operatives get what FEELS like immunity to everything, including DAMAGE, CC's, SLOWS, you name it. Cakewalk class for PVP and its the GOD mode. Operatives can destroy EVERY SINGLE CLASS in the game, sometimes 2v1 which I saw yesterday. A single operative took out both a Sniper and Sorc, which were fully geared players. The Operatiev was just unstoppable and very good at running behind things and healing up, using CC on one, rolling past all damage and CCs and laughing his way to solo capping a base vs 2 people. Don't tell me they suck, operative was frikken immune to everything.

And whats the problem with a operative countering 3 ppl to cap? you should have capped sooner or killed him first. usally ppl just stand around trying to cap expecting one little stun beein enough:D

No, three people ACTIVELY trying to cap and he can stop all 3 while taking almost no damage is fair.

I would see the argument in hutball where you cant even counter him because the server doesnt upload the position properly after a roll. But preventing from capping 3 ppl is normal.

 

Oh you mean THE GAME BUG where operatives roll across the platforms and bounce between top and bottom (BUG!) and you can't touch them then when they finally show up, they're already over the bridge and cap. You know, where you can't CC them at all because their ROLL is bugged and yeah, for 3-5 seconds you can't touch them at all and they already score.

Yeah, nothing wrong with Operatives at all. They're fine, right?

Feed the troll.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=999890

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=954781

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=996824

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995167

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

 

And this was just the first page of results.

Yep and all that complaining about Operatives, the developers who play them, refuse to tune them back down to the other classes.

Thanks for making my point.

Why do people respond to this troll.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=999890

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=954781

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=996824

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995167

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

 

And this was just the first page of results.

Having the "feeling" that operatives are overtuned for pvp isn't wrong, it's simply that most people with that feeling lack nuance and actual constructive criticism. Thing is though, even with nuance and constructive criticism, feedback doesn't matter because this isn't THE private discord, because most of us can't contribute direct feedback to dev team, and most importantly, EA/Bioware, on a fundamental level, doesn't care about balance. There's no short term profit in it.

A member of the dev combat team takes time off to have a baby, and that's why we had to wait a full year to get any sort of class balance addressed in 5.0. Disgusting that the devs would even offer that as an explanation, yet here we are. Not the parent's fault, Bioware's fault for refusing to properly fund a professional dev combat team that isn't crippled by the loss of a single individual. Still seems that's the case going into 7.0.

Get used to more of these threads, because while most classes get a punch to the face for 7.0, operatives (and mercs) are barely getting a slap to the wrist. In other words, the opposite of what should of happened.

Quoting a guys's complaints from 2018 to 2022 doesn't make him a troll, if issues causing those complaints existed the whole time. Can you name a time in SWTOR's history where they weren't the best duelist, best node defender, the best node attacker, the best troll class, the class with the highest skill cap, in short "the best'? Was this theoretical time longer than 4 years ago, if in fact it ever existed?

It's almost as if giving heals to a class that infinitely delay resolution to a combat encounter was bad class design. Wow. Go figure.

Having the "feeling" that operatives are overtuned for pvp isn't wrong, it's simply that most people with that feeling lack nuance and actual constructive criticism. Thing is though, even with nuance and constructive criticism, feedback doesn't matter because this isn't THE private discord, because most of us can't contribute direct feedback to dev team, and most importantly, EA/Bioware, on a fundamental level, doesn't care about balance. There's no short term profit in it.

 

A member of the dev combat team takes time off to have a baby, and that's why we had to wait a full year to get any sort of class balance addressed in 5.0. Disgusting that the devs would even offer that as an explanation, yet here we are. Not the parent's fault, Bioware's fault for refusing to properly fund a professional dev combat team that isn't crippled by the loss of a single individual. Still seems that's the case going into 7.0.

 

Get used to more of these threads, because while most classes get a punch to the face for 7.0, operatives (and mercs) are barely getting a slap to the wrist. In other words, the opposite of what should of happened.

 

Quoting a guys's complaints from 2018 to 2022 doesn't make him a troll, if issues causing those complaints existed the whole time. Can you name a time in SWTOR's history where they weren't the best duelist, best node defender, the best node attacker, the best troll class, the class with the highest skill cap, in short "the best'? Was this theoretical time longer than 4 years ago, if in fact it ever existed?

 

It's almost as if giving heals to a class that infinitely delay resolution to a combat encounter was bad class design. Wow. Go figure.

I've thought people are way exaggerating when they say BW is employing like 5 people, but jeez, how do you get progress that crippled by one designer taking time off unless their team really is tiny. I've been wondering of late if the credits we see in some of this stuff is mostly padded from outsourcing and contracting work, and it makes their team seem bigger than it is. A relatively small in-house team on permanent payroll with a lot being pulled in from outside for content pushes could explain a lot about the glacial pace they move at and the seeming inability to ever adjust quickly in response to feedback.

Ahhh, love to live the classics. Nerf Operative. Havent heard that before.

Which, if you take to the time to think it through, what's being asked is "Put operatives on the same level as other classes".

It's not irrational or wrong. It's actually LOGICAL.

Having the "feeling" that operatives are overtuned for pvp isn't wrong, it's simply that most people with that feeling lack nuance and actual constructive criticism. Thing is though, even with nuance and constructive criticism, feedback doesn't matter because this isn't THE private discord, because most of us can't contribute direct feedback to dev team, and most importantly, EA/Bioware, on a fundamental level, doesn't care about balance. There's no short term profit in it.

 

A member of the dev combat team takes time off to have a baby, and that's why we had to wait a full year to get any sort of class balance addressed in 5.0. Disgusting that the devs would even offer that as an explanation, yet here we are. Not the parent's fault, Bioware's fault for refusing to properly fund a professional dev combat team that isn't crippled by the loss of a single individual. Still seems that's the case going into 7.0.

 

Get used to more of these threads, because while most classes get a punch to the face for 7.0, operatives (and mercs) are barely getting a slap to the wrist. In other words, the opposite of what should of happened.

 

Quoting a guys's complaints from 2018 to 2022 doesn't make him a troll, if issues causing those complaints existed the whole time. Can you name a time in SWTOR's history where they weren't the best duelist, best node defender, the best node attacker, the best troll class, the class with the highest skill cap, in short "the best'? Was this theoretical time longer than 4 years ago, if in fact it ever existed?

 

It's almost as if giving heals to a class that infinitely delay resolution to a combat encounter was bad class design. Wow. Go figure.

I agree with you 100%. There's almost no time/effort into balancing PVP which is why they lost so many subscribers. Same thing happened to WOW. When people feel classes are overtuned, they either all play them (see: Operative) or they unsub (which many, MANY have).

This game still has great potential, but not in its current form.

This game still has great potential, but not in its current form.

well i agree on that one but atleast we should be happy that the game is still around and not thrown away for some cheap mobile game that turns in 100times the profit:D

Which, if you take to the time to think it through, what's being asked is "Put operatives on the same level as other classes".

 

It's not irrational or wrong. It's actually LOGICAL.

My opinion, and dont take it personally, but I have no problem with operatives on a node if im 2v1. Every class has enough rooting and hard stun built in that an op that wins 2v1 is a better player than the other 2 by a considerable amount.

Get them to burn their cc breaker, then set up for back to back hard stuns for a burst window. They're either stealthing out to heal up or coming out of stealth to stop you cap with no cc breaker and no stealth. Any 2v1 of any 2 dps or dps/tank class that is at what I would call average shouldn't have any issues capping a node.

Are they over tuned? Outside of huttball and 1v1s i say no. They lack a lot of ability to take damage and still pump out dps. Its a strong class to play alone. If youre grouping with friends, id rather run a pt/sniper if i know im going to have heals and/or a guard.

The argument that the high skill ceiling, that most will not attain, is justification for the overpowered lunacy that operatives can do is analogous to ignoring legal loopholes because either few know they exist or only a select few can exploit them. This argument does not pass the smell test. It's refuse and everyone knows it.

For my part, I do not comment on it often because A) I have not actively played for several weeks...got bored, and B) appealing to a reticent, diffident, out-of-touch development team will exhaust even very passionate players.

Feed the troll.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=999890

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=954781

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=996824

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995167

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

 

And this was just the first page of results.

Awww you beat me to it

Typical experience for an operative at a node.

1) 2 people come to tag, only one is tagging, the other is waiting.

2) Sleep dart on the active one, look at the other running everywhere and trying to find a stealther , chance that will work ? 0.01 % .

3) Sleep dart ends (8 seconds lost for tagging), second try to tag, but re sap . Look at the other running and aoe like a frenetic hornet.

4) Sleep dart ends for the second time, now, this player is white barred and cannot be cc anymore (but already , 16 seconds lost for tagging)...so what does he do? Of course, he starts running and aoeing to find this pesky stealther (surely a hive spirit due to his hornet friend)... Now it is the time for the other one to try to tag (sometimes, he won't).

Go back to 1) and wait for a post on this forum.

well i agree on that one but atleast we should be happy that the game is still around and not thrown away for some cheap mobile game that turns in 100times the profit:D

True, but on the other hand, they are not putting much effort into it either.