Seriously. How long is this bias going to go on? The company knows Operative classes are OP, they know they own 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 all day long. It takes an act of God to kill one (if you're extremely lucky) and yet this class can hip hop across the map and score at will.

 

Are you telling us all to play Operative if we want a fair match in PVP?

 

Because a 6 second roll and a fast recovery on dodge, cleanses, heals, vanish, etc all day long at your finger tips ON TOP OF MASSIVE BURST DAMAGE is just not powerful enough for the developers.

 

FIX THIS CRAP! It's old, tired and makes the game embarrassing to play with an OP class like that.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Jarbarian

How do you play PVP and not realize that AP PT and tank jugg are the actual apex predators?

How do you play PVP and not realize that AP PT and tank jugg are the actual apex predators?

 

lol I got laughed out of dodge when I pointed out that juggs dominate regs...and in every spec. just shear numbers, and they don't drop nearly so fast w/o the good focus of ranked arenas.

 

still, there's nothing more annoying in the game than being hounded by stealth. as it happens, the up time on roll resist combined with the impossibility of knowing when he can/can't roll based on set pcs...and even the slightest bit of latency...it all adds up to a very frustrating time. I can easily understand how 2-3 ops in every WZ are going to sear a hole in one's emotional memory way more than 5 juggs.

 

there aren't a lot of PTs in regs (on SF) and those that do play it mostly play Pyro. but omg, if there were...it would be aids.

Edited July 13, 2021 by CheesyEZ

How do you play PVP and not realize that AP PT and tank jugg are the actual apex predators?

 

It's RARE, very rare, for me to worry about PTs. Yes, they are annoying in PVP, but they also cannot stealth out, heal fully and wreck everyone in mere seconds. PTs cannot also roll across the entire map, leap over to anyone, through fire, acid, electricity UNTOUCHED and cap orbs. PTs, I can deal with, it's GOD MODE operatives that need a huge nerf bat.

 

Then we can discuss PTs.

Because a 6 second roll and a fast recovery on dodge, cleanses, heals, vanish, etc all day long at your finger tips ON TOP OF MASSIVE BURST DAMAGE is just not powerful enough for the developers.

 

So we talking lethality or concealment here?

 

Lethality doesn't have God rolls, and it's burst is good... but not great. Like IO merc has better burst than leth op.

 

Concealment I would say is overtuned. Having a free evasion on every roll seems a bit stupid. I think a better way to do this would put the evasion only on your last roll/second roll. This is how medicine does it with their interrupt protection.

 

Oh an medicine, yeah they are tough to heal with in PvP compared to the other two if you are in a group that understands to target healers. If you get a guard on you when that happens you should be fine though.

 

Like people have mentioned, concealment is a bit broken right now, but they aren't unkillable like immortal juggs, or literal self targeting bombers like Tactics Vanguard, why yes I would like to take 60% of your healthbar with 2 abilities.

I've only been doing about 8 BGs a week lately, but I haven't seen packs of Operatives, let alone packs of them working together.

It's RARE, very rare, for me to worry about PTs. Yes, they are annoying in PVP, but they also cannot stealth out, heal fully and wreck everyone in mere seconds. PTs cannot also roll across the entire map, leap over to anyone, through fire, acid, electricity UNTOUCHED and cap orbs. PTs, I can deal with, it's GOD MODE operatives that need a huge nerf bat.

 

Then we can discuss PTs.

 

PTs have hydraulic overrides up constantly which provides an insane speed buff that doesn't use any GCDs. They have leap. They also can pull. They have the only AOE hard stun.

 

AP PT does 300k damage faster than any spec in the game. When getting attacked during power yield, an AP PT can very easily do 40k DPS for the entire duration. The burst is far higher than any other spec in the game. 2 GCDs can easily be 150k damage.

 

With this comment you proved that your opinion can be relegated to the garbage heap.

I've only been doing about 8 BGs a week lately, but I haven't seen packs of Operatives, let alone packs of them working together.

The fun waiting for you when you do!*

 

 

 

 

*There will be no fun just

They have the only AOE hard stun.

I will admit to being a noob when it comes to PvP, but if I may ask what makes that skill a hard stun and flash bang not?

I will admit to being a noob when it comes to PvP, but if I may ask what makes that skill a hard stun and flash bang not?

 

stun (or hard stun) is something that does not break on dmg. so cryo grenade freezes the target for 4 seconds regardless of whether I do damage to you or not.

 

sap, mezz, dart, flas, etc. (soft stun) is something that breakes on dmg. so concussive round "freezes" a player for 8 seconds, but doing damage to that player immediately frees them from the effect regardless of how much time passes. generally, ppl avoid calling these "stuns" at all and just call it a sap or mezz. flash is a one of these abilities b/c it breaks when damage is done to the target.

Edited July 13, 2021 by CheesyEZ

Seriously. How long is this bias going to go on? The company knows Operative classes are OP, they know they own 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 all day long. It takes an act of God to kill one (if you're extremely lucky) and yet this class can hip hop across the map and score at will.

 

Are you telling us all to play Operative if we want a fair match in PVP?

 

Because a 6 second roll and a fast recovery on dodge, cleanses, heals, vanish, etc all day long at your finger tips ON TOP OF MASSIVE BURST DAMAGE is just not powerful enough for the developers.

 

FIX THIS CRAP! It's old, tired and makes the game embarrassing to play with an OP class like that.

 

You left out their ability to double debilitate (their stun, that is on a 26 second cooldown anyway).

 

I guess the devs decided they needed two stuns though, despite the stupid short cooldown.

 

Ops have been broken for years. Most stealth capable classes have an edge in PvP. SWTOR operative takes it to the next level of ridiculousness. Ranked right now has 2 operatives on each team every game. I guess thats how they balance the class.

Edited July 13, 2021 by SOULCASTER

PTs have hydraulic overrides up constantly which provides an insane speed buff that doesn't use any GCDs. They have leap. They also can pull. They have the only AOE hard stun.

 

AP PT does 300k damage faster than any spec in the game. When getting attacked during power yield, an AP PT can very easily do 40k DPS for the entire duration. The burst is far higher than any other spec in the game. 2 GCDs can easily be 150k damage.

 

With this comment you proved that your opinion can be relegated to the garbage heap.

 

They certainly can do all that. They also can be stunned in the middle of that, and or you yourself on most classes can avoid, mitigate, or move out of range of some of that as well. Once the PT does all that, they are also out of tricks for a good while and have to hope they arent dead themselves. Operative however has all perks and no downsides.

 

Operative in PvP right now reminds me of old sports video games where to make a custom character with 99 speed and 99 agility you maybe had to lower your awareness or catching ability or something. Nope, operative has 99 to all stats. lol

Edited July 13, 2021 by SOULCASTER

stun (or hard stun) is something that does not break on dmg. so cryo grenade freezes the target for 4 seconds regardless of whether I do damage to you or not.

 

sap, mezz, dart, flas, etc. (soft stun) is something that breakes on dmg. so concussive round "freezes" a player for 8 seconds, but doing damage to that player immediately frees them from the effect regardless of how much time passes. generally, ppl avoid calling these "stuns" at all and just call it a sap or mezz. flash is a one of these abilities b/c it breaks when damage is done to the target.

 

cool, thanks for clearing that up for me

cool, thanks for clearing that up for me

 

Also, a major factor in the usefulness of flashbang or other mezz abilities is they are very difficult to use effectively against comps that feature dot damage. Which is everything to an extent.

 

Finally, carb is very useful in that it can be stacked - a player can be carbed twice in a row and still be able to be hard stunned or mezzed for even longer. Two carbs is only 80 percent of resolve. Against a team with two PTs, if you get carbed without at least something up already to mitigate damage, you're going to get dead. If you break cc on the first carb, you'll get carbed again then a 4 second stun immediately after. If you break on the second, still gonna get a 4 second stun after. You're going to eat at least 3 GCDs of damage, which is over 300k against two AP PTs.

They certainly can do all that. They also can be stunned in the middle of that, and or you yourself on most classes can avoid, mitigate, or move out of range of some of that as well. Once the PT does all that, they are also out of tricks for a good while and have to hope they arent dead themselves. Operative however has all perks and no downsides.

 

Operative in PvP right now reminds me of old sports video games where to make a custom character with 99 speed and 99 agility you maybe had to lower your awareness or catching ability or something. Nope, operative has 99 to all stats. lol

 

If conc operatives are as all powerful as you claim, why aren't they used, at all, in group ranked? Operatives are one stun, root, or net away from being killed, always. PTs can spec into a second CC break with a large self heal usable when stunned. If an op is stunned without cc break, they are going to die against any competent team.

 

Conc ops are the best duelists and great in solo ranked as a result. They have great mitigation if they are forced to sacrifice a third of their GCDs to roll. When you see an op with crazy off healing HPS, they aren't playing conc, they're playing leth and leth isn't bursting anyone down or rolling to mitigate big hits or CC's.

Operatives aren't too bad to deal with sometimes, it really depends on the operative. Depends also what your dcds are and what their dcds are. It does get annoying when there are multiples of em running around together targeting same person but...I mean when 2 decent players do that on any class its about the same thing anyways. If there is someone targeting an Operative and they manage to hardstun em...and you see 1-2 hitting the guy and you see your hardstun up...play into it and use your hard stun? 1. Either they break and live to run away, or 2. They dont have cc break and if your dps is decent enough with 1-2 other ppl he should die .-. as a PT wait for double roll and then leap or pull, hard stun into carb with full burst and they are basically dead, especially if someone else is there with you to help dps in that window. If you are playing sniper, rotate through your dcds to knock back and root, if the operative is decent 1v1 you won't win so best bet you can do is just stall them or run, but you shouldnt get insta blown up. as a merc just use your missile blast root, use knockback when he gets close, slow with unload, conc missile to kite and heal, jet boost backwards when he is catching up, rinse repeat you should live for a very long time if not even kill a operative 1v1. i mean to be honest you can do a lot to play around an operative or kite an operative on any given class Edited July 14, 2021 by tharlainmar

If conc operatives are as all powerful as you claim, why aren't they used, at all, in group ranked?.

 

While that is solely your opinion, it is still not ideal to use the least played, least participated in aspect of the game (that is like 1-2% or all swtor pvp) as the litmus test to why a class is balanced, when it is overpowered in the other 98% of PvP. They also excel in PvE too.

 

We all know how broken operatives are, except apparently those that play them. Everything from their abilities to even being given OP armor set bonuses (that is easy to get too, not even a hard set to get like from nim dxun or something) is over tuned when compared to other classes.

 

Any 1 class in PvP that has all of the tools in their toolbox to answer the problems all of the other classes pose, without any drawbacks mind you, will always be overpowered. It just so happens that the developers of games always seem to give these types of abilities to classes like Operatives (swtor) or Rogues (WoW) or Spies (SWG), and they end up becoming an absolute troll fest.

 

I’m hoping the changes in 7.0 will address some of these concerns and bring balance to the force eventually.

Edited July 14, 2021 by SOULCASTER

 

I’m hoping the changes in 7.0 will address some of these concerns and bring balance to the force eventually.

 

Another way to say it: SWTOR, as you know it, is going to be completely gutted and torn apart for 7.0, in order to appeal to those who don't like playing SWTOR. There's no way to know what the metas are going to be a few months after 7.0, but the unwanted changes and lost abilities to your own favorite class might be less severe that what they do to operatives.

How do you play PVP and not realize that AP PT and tank jugg are the actual apex predators?

calls warzones Battlegrounds in title. probably freshly arrived from World of Warcraft and thinks they know everything about PVP

 

I’m hoping the changes in 7.0 will address some of these concerns and bring balance to the force eventually.

 

 

Star Forge has 3 light side victory states for every Dark Side Victorious in DvL

Edited July 14, 2021 by Falensawino

If conc operatives are as all powerful as you claim, why aren't they used, at all, in group ranked?.

 

that's not fair on one hand. as soulcaster points out, granked is practically dead, played by appointment only, and is used for inter-guild kickball games more than anything else.

 

on the other hand, you've put your finger on the fundamental problem with SWTOR pvp. balance should be predicated on the presence of a tank and healer for every 2-3 dps. but that isn't how the vast majority of the game is played, including the vast majority of ranked games (solos). this dynamic makes balance impossible. either you're balance for yolo or you're not. few classes work well with both. AP PT is ridiculously OP in grp. conc op is useless.

 

it would be nice if BW could find a way to enforce something closer to the tank and healer combos for instanced pvp so that balance has a chance. but that would kill pops and is never going to happen. and no, solos isn't going anywhere. that's a non-starter.

As a Lightning Sorc main I've had zero issues with OPs ever really being a factor. I do love the OP class as a healer when I feel like getting down bc yes they are good for objectives due to mobility but its not god tier or anything, still skill/stats. They've only got one stealth out which makes them fairly easy to counter and while they have decent self heals, they can be bursted down fairly quickly.

 

Any class that's properly played can withstand an onslaught of players, I constantly am dealing with groups of 3-4 and can handle the pressure no problem. I used to think things were just savagely unbalanced. And sure I could make some arguments that the rest of us need our Damage buffed to be in the same realm as AP powertech... But once I figured out how to stat/spec and play to PvP realized besides the aforementioned its pretty fairly balanced as is.

 

Its really about learning to use your utility points to offset the skills being used depending on your class. Almost every class has a couple wicked combos they can do to give you an advantage.

 

Plus never forget you can always aoe an area to pull out of stealth which is fairly easy to do with objectives and a very easy counter to most stealth caps. Huttball can be a little trickier but honestly you can cheese it so many different ways. Can score a goal in literally 15 seconds with the right teamwork.

 

Just start inspecting players gear set ups ask em loadouts etc, most of the guides on pvp are not helpful towards actually being good at pvp atm. Don't be discouraged, I used to hate doing PvP with my sorc bc of constantly being tunneled, now I relish the opportunity. I think you'd be surprised how easy it can be to take care of OPs at top tier PvP.

Edited July 14, 2021 by TheVoyant

As a Lightning Sorc main I've had zero issues with OPs…

… at top tier PvP.

 

Classes that have phase walks or 2 cc breaks (like sorc) or a class like merc or jug that can heal while stunned of course have a lot LESS trouble with operatives.

Edited July 14, 2021 by SOULCASTER

Classes that have phase walks or 2 cc breaks (like sorc) or a class like merc or jug that can heal while stunned of course have a lot LESS trouble with operatives.

 

I've played a variety of classes, shoulda mentioned that. Just state the main bc its one of the traditional "squishier" ones.

 

What class are your playing that you're having trouble with em?

Plus never forget you can always aoe an area to pull out of stealth which is fairly easy to do with objectives and a very easy counter to most stealth caps. .

common misconception that drives me to ignore objectives and just DM is when some idiot decides to "help" draw out the stealth by using aoe around me when I cap. the way you bring out stealth is to have as many players on the node channeling as possible. he will fill your resolve immediately by having to swap to different players.

it's the only way you should ever attempt to draw out stealth on a node cap.

I've played a variety of classes, shoulda mentioned that. Just state the main bc its one of the traditional "squishier" ones.

 

What class are your playing that you're having trouble with em?

 

I play every class extensively, except Operative (healer only) and sniper which i play the least. But my issue isnt “me having a problem with them” it’s: hey lets maybe address how ridiculously overpowering and unbalanced this class is in PvP.

 

As stated before look at all of their abilities and interactions within the game, they have too much. They even gave them a knockback now if they want. The devs just keep feeding stuff to this class. It’s just simply overtuned. To those that can’t see that, just dont have a knowledge or ability to discuss class balance.

Edited July 14, 2021 by SOULCASTER