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Dear BioWare, please consider CRAFTING ideas (for *10th Anniversary* ) ...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Dear BioWare, please consider CRAFTING ideas (for *10th Anniversary* ) ...

Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
02.05.2021 , 04:02 PM | #1
*TL;DR version: Convert most Cartel Market (and looted) armor/weapon items & rewards of purple/gold value to instead be custom 1-time-use SCHEMATICS (or multiple-use, depending upon what type of item is is and/or whether or not player got RNG 'crit' during crafting). Then, use original 'matrix cube' crafting UI & cinematics to allow for enhanced versatile PLAYER-crafting OPTION with ability to yield a slightly superior---or differently skinned---final product.... Thereby inspiring players--of all Classes--to maybe feel more Star Warsy while crafting.
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Dear BioWare & Community,

As we all know, for better or worse the 'crafting' in SWTOR has been severely lacking in any real depth or dynamism or Devotion. I won't bother trying to argue why, in my humble opinion, every MMO should prioritize PLAYER-crafted items (or components) to almost always be superior than any looted version (or 're-skin' ) . Nor will i try to convince anyone why, imho, Cartel Market one-click-to-get items will never be as satisfying long-term as digitally MAKING something yourself.(customization, anyone? )

Instead, as i've tried to do with other flawed aspects in SWTOR (like space missions here, and PvP ideas here) , i'm hoping to offer a relatively simple solution (aka "suggestion" ) to what many fear is a complex un-fixable problem. So, here goes my case....

Before the dark times, before the dreaded 'F2P/micro-transactions' model, i never expected Crafting in SWTOR to be nearly as wide-ranging or intricate as SWG's was, but still, as i tried to convey in beta testing here nearly a decade ago, i do expect that SWTOR's crafting could indeed be better...and more personalized.

And the best part is: most of the necessary game code & ui & systems ALREADY EXIST here in the old 'matrix cube' crafting sequence. That combined with the expansion KOTET 'building a lightsaber' sequence (not to mention the Class build-your-1st-saber-hilt sequence as well) could make for a truly immersive & interactive crafting experience for the PLAYER.

Furthermore, most (if not all) current & future purple/gold tiered Cartel Market & loot-rewarded items (armor/weapons) would be converted to actual schematics, so that BioWare could still maintain their EA business model while at the same time not de-value'ing any already equipped items from 9+ years of SWTOR built up. In other words, your Ranked PVP 'furious' sets wouldn't all of a sudden become "junk". , for example.

We would still keep the whole Crew Skills 'send-your-companion' out on 'gathering' missions....and...for those players who prefer the hands-off "freedom" of allowing companions (aka allowed 'bots' ) to do all the crafting for you, no problem go for it. However, choosing the more involved approach (aka my idea in this thread) would 'reward" the extra time & effort of a PLAYER-crafted click-process-to-make item by giving that item a chance (with RNG + material combo experimentation) to yield either a slightly more superior stat'd final product OR a more uniquely skinned version.

If you're still with me reading, allow me to also suggest that for certain SPECIAL armor/weapons, the player could (and some might even argue, should, lore-wise) journey to the 'mountaintop' at great "risk" to craft his/her "best" (or most cherished) set or hilt or blaster or mount or whatever.

But otherwise, using a modfied style of the aforementioned existing 'matrix cube' crafting code, players could use a new set of TOOLS (or heck just modify existing 'item modification station' ) either from their inventory or on their personal ship/stronghold (or guild Flagship) .

It's not too late, BioWare. It's never too late. Please consider incorporating my ostensibly "ambitious" idea (or use parts of it to make it your own epic idea) , so that we can help restore some modicum of HOPE for this our coveted *10th Anniversary of SWTOR*....and even beyond.
Never tell me the odds! - (1-time Referral: *CODE*)

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
02.15.2021 , 12:05 PM | #2
nah this sounds terrible from a consumer point of view

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Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
02.15.2021 , 12:07 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
nah this sounds terrible from a consumer point of view
In what sense? Care to elaborate? Judging by your post-history, you certainly don't seem to ever be shy about offering a more detailed opinions.

And keep in mind, i'm a consumer as well. Or were you just trolling/flaming meh? If so, thx for the thread 'bump'
Never tell me the odds! - (1-time Referral: *CODE*)

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
02.15.2021 , 03:37 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
In what sense? Care to elaborate? Judging by your post-history, you certainly don't seem to ever be shy about offering a more detailed opinions.

And keep in mind, i'm a consumer as well. Or were you just trolling/flaming meh? If so, thx for the thread 'bump'
Basically you want to remove the cartel market, make all the items craft able, so that BW no longer makes credits from the cash cow (shop), so as a consumer, we'd lose the game, as it wouldn't make the money it was, or worse, they'd raise the sub, get rid of the F2P options, and probably still crash and burn, as it's the cash shop that is the major revenue resource.
⚰️ R.I.P CRAFTING, you will be missed. ⚱️
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖
The Saga Begins
Empire Fleet Stronghold

Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
02.15.2021 , 04:34 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
Basically you want to remove the cartel market, make all the items craft able, so that BW no longer makes credits from the cash cow (shop), so as a consumer, we'd lose the game, as it wouldn't make the money it was, or worse, they'd raise the sub, get rid of the F2P options, and probably still crash and burn, as it's the cash shop that is the major revenue resource.
Please re-read my OP ( yes i realize it's a "long" one) , cuz that's def. NOT what i said.

I used the word "most" , first of all.

Secondly, i used the word "convert" , as in CONVERT the Cartel Market items ( most, not all ) .

I also gave evidence of EXISTING code already utilized in the game (to great success and player enjoyment) . As well as used the word "optional" . (as in, if you don't want to craft the longer more involved skillful 'higher risk with higher reward' method, and prefer easier companion-bot method, np go for it )

So BioWare would still very much receive their cash-cow of budget funding. Only , with the concept i propose, it could also solve the tremendous downsides to relying upon such a short-sighted instant-gratification-but-ultimately-unsatisfying business model without also incorporating significantly CRAFTED items (aka schematics to encourage a more player-driven player-crafted economy) .

I always enjoy a healthy debate and exchange of ideas, especially yours DarkT , but please don't mis-represent my OP. And again: i fully realize my OP would be considered by some as a so called "radical" change and i'm sure you & others can have forum fun parsing my words, but come on surely you get the jist of my proposal.

And gosh, if basically just converting most shiny items into schematics first is now so "radical" in what's supposed to be a MMORPG (emphasis on the 'massively multiplayer' part ) then gosh i may as well just give up the effort lol. ( i never will )

I don't believe all is lost yet though, so then i would ask you (or anyone) : Are you truly satisfied with the current state of things regarding crafting, Cartel, economy, & consisant content?

If no, i would then ask to please really think & consider my OP. (the long version) . Or, even better, offer your solutions along with your critiques. (of mine)

If yes, you're satisfied, then oh well i guess we're just diametrically opposed in philosophy of gaming. (SWG vs. SWTOR , sandbox vs. theme-park , player-crafted items vs. pay-to-get shinies, etc. etc. )
Never tell me the odds! - (1-time Referral: *CODE*)

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
02.15.2021 , 05:58 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
Please re-read my OP ( yes i realize it's a "long" one) , cuz that's def. NOT what i said.

I used the word "most" , first of all.

Secondly, i used the word "convert" , as in CONVERT the Cartel Market items ( most, not all ) .

OK MOST...define most, what sort of a percentage? Either way, it'll still kill the Cartel Market, who is going to pay real money when they can craft it themselves, or buy it cheaply. So 'converting' it doesn't matter. You have two items, one craft, one Real cash, which would most people go for.
That alone would be a huge chunk of their cash cow gone.


Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post

So BioWare would still very much receive their cash-cow of budget funding. Only , with the concept i propose, it could also solve the tremendous downsides to relying upon such a short-sighted instant-gratification-but-ultimately-unsatisfying business model without also incorporating significantly CRAFTED items (aka schematics to encourage a more player-driven player-crafted economy) .
No, they won't, they will lose a great deal out of it. We do need more craftables, I agree, but by converting the CM stuff, people will stop buying the CM stuff. Take the black/black dye. If they made a craftable version, how many people are going to pay 1500cc's for it, when they can craft it.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be great for us, prices would come down, stuff would be easier to get. etc. BUT from BW's perspective , I can't see it working.


Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post

Are you truly satisfied with the current state of things regarding crafting, Cartel, economy, & consisant content?

If no, i would then ask to please really think & consider my OP. (the long version) . Or, even better, offer your solutions along with your critiques. (of mine)
No, of course not, which is why we need the cash cow, it's the only thing that is keeping the limited content coming, can you imagine the sort of drought we'd have if they lost half of their real cash from the CM,

As I said, it's not about, not wanting it, it's about how realistic it is.

Economy - I don't think there is anything they can do to fix that, anything that takes the credits away from subs, will cause the subs to stop, & will also stop people from using real money to get CM items to sell.

Crafting - There are multiple threads about the issues with crafting, so I'll ignore that, but just to add, it would be great if we could craft many items like the CM stuff, but not copies of it. i.e. CM quality armours, but different, tunings, new crystals, new dyes, etc.

Content - I'd love to have a suggestion for more content, but anything that takes away real money will lead to less content (yes, that is possible)


Again (3rd Time) I'm not shooting down your ideas because I'm happy with how things are, but the reality is, they've relied on the cash cow for too long, removing it would probably kill the game.
⚰️ R.I.P CRAFTING, you will be missed. ⚱️
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖
The Saga Begins
Empire Fleet Stronghold

Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
02.15.2021 , 06:49 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
. You have two items, one craft, one Real cash, which would most people go for.
The crafted version, since in my concept, only the crafted version (which theoretically takes more involved "skill", using my existing code 'Matrix Cube' style crafting scenario) would yield the chance at higher stats or more rare skin, etc.

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
Take the black/black dye. If they made a craftable version, how many people are going to pay 1500cc's for it, when they can craft it.
Because, in that example, the dye would still be worth 1500cc's , since all i'm talking about is converting the same original Cartel item to a one-time-use schematic. (or 2-time use if say you 'crit' within the longer crafted session) .

If anything, my concept could potentially help flood the market with more product for consumers (and therefore more motivation for crafters to not only craft, but also to build their 'crafting suit' with new Amps ) .

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
As I said, it's not about, not wanting it, it's about how realistic it is.
From a code perspective, it's very realistic.

From a game-health perspective, just like pretty much every other system SWTOR has ever offered or changed, how would we (or BioWare) truly know until/unless it was implemented? (or at least target-tested, for say a few limited *10th Anniversary* event items)

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
it would be great if we could craft many items like the CM stuff, but not copies of it. i.e. CM quality armours, but different, tunings, new crystals, new dyes, etc.
Agreed, which goes to my whole idea of 'risk vs. reward' with the more involved more immersive crafting session 'Matrix Cube' method.

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
but anything that takes away real money will lead to less content
Of course i agree , but again: My proposal should do just the opposite. ( i realize now that i probably didn't articulate myself properly in my OP , with exactly what i meant by "converting into schematics" , since i failed to mention how many 'uses' those schems could/would have )

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
Again (3rd Time) I'm not shooting down your ideas because I'm happy with how things are, but the reality is, they've relied on the cash cow for too long, removing it would probably kill the game.
I don't want to "remove" anything necessarily. Instead, i want to augment (pun intended, sorry lol) the current state-of-things to give Crafters (and players like me who prefer more immersion & sandbox style) some greater more interesting OPTIONS.

With these new options would come risk (say a failed crafting session cuz of RNG or lesser sub-component) and reward (more rare version, slightly higher stats, unique skin, etc. etc. ) .
Never tell me the odds! - (1-time Referral: *CODE*)

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
02.15.2021 , 10:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
The crafted version, since in my concept, only the crafted version (which theoretically takes more involved "skill", using my existing code 'Matrix Cube' style crafting scenario) would yield the chance at higher stats or more rare skin, etc.

Because, in that example, the dye would still be worth 1500cc's , since all i'm talking about is converting the same original Cartel item to a one-time-use schematic. (or 2-time use if say you 'crit' within the longer crafted session) .

I.

Stats don't matter, as people have legacy armour, and anything coming from the crafted section would be more of a dress up thing, like the cartel market, so people still aren't going to spend cc's to get a cartel item, when they can craft, or get someone else to craft. As for the black/black dye, if it's craftable, it's no longer worth 1500 cc's, and will not be bought, as people will be able to craft it. And as you pointed out, the gtn will be flooded with them, so why would anyone pay real money to get them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post

If anything, my concept could potentially help flood the market with more product for consumers (and therefore more motivation for crafters to not only craft, but also to build their 'crafting suit' with new Amps ) .
Yes, it will flood the market, and it'll be great for the players, but it will still suck for BW, as they will lose out on the CC's. That is the whole point, it doesn't matter how great you think your idea is, or how easy to code. At the end of the day, it kills the cash cow, which in turn kills the game.


As I said, crafting needs love, it needs to be looked at, fixed up, made healthy again, and given a good robust new outlook.
⚰️ R.I.P CRAFTING, you will be missed. ⚱️
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖
The Saga Begins
Empire Fleet Stronghold

Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
02.15.2021 , 11:02 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
Stats don't matter,
Not sure what u mean? Stats def. help for Ranked PVP , HM Ops, MM uprisings, and NiM Ops.

Perhaps i'm not articulating myself correctly (typed words, ugh) ...

Imagine any 'armor set' on Cartel Market. If we convert the set to a set of SCHEMS , they would be one-time-use schems (just like each piece of armor is one-time-use , as in 'bound' per legacy account ) .

So i'm not understanding why you think it wouldn't still be enticing to purchase with CC's ?

It's literally the exact same item, except my version requires it to have 1 extra step: the crafting of it. And, within that crafting of it, players would choose either the quick & easy companion-bot crafted version (which would produce the same empty shell as we get now from a simple buy) ...or...players who wanted a higher BONUS stat on the shell, or a unique shell 'skin' version, could choose the more involved immersive 'Matrix cube' crafting process. (aka aforementioned risk vs. reward)

Again, i'm sorry if i'm not making sense and i don't blame you at all. I'm not the best with typed words without *tone & context* sometimes lol

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Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
And as you pointed out, the gtn will be flooded with them, so why would anyone pay real money to get them.

.
Because it would only be flooded BRIEFLY , since the dyes as schematics would still be max 2-time-use (if you 'crit' while crafting the dye) .

It's the same thing as it is now, except a bit more chance to flood market if players 'crit' 2 dyes instead of 1 very often. But in my way, we at least include Crafters into the process.

Instead of the "process" just being: Cartel Market pop-up---->get RL credit card--->make purchase--->use or sell item--->big whoop--->logout cuz nothing to do in game.
Never tell me the odds! - (1-time Referral: *CODE*)

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
02.16.2021 , 12:22 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
In what sense? Care to elaborate? Judging by your post-history, you certainly don't seem to ever be shy about offering a more detailed opinions.

And keep in mind, i'm a consumer as well. Or were you just trolling/flaming meh? If so, thx for the thread 'bump'
sorry, I didn't expect that I needed to explain why a suggestion that reduces Bioware income/revenue would be lmao

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Saga - FriendlyFire - Mango