So I gather most of us have heard about BioWare's plans for a new expansion, if not I'd suggest visiting the following:

 

http://www.starwarstheoldrepublic.com/fallen-empire

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20150615

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20150615

 

You may have already guessed, but I'm none too pleased. And this thread is basically serving as a vent for my rage at what I believe to be frankly atrocious storytelling, so bear with me. Anyway, no more smilies, time to get serious.

 

To give a quick summary of what BioWare plans: your character is frozen in carbonite for an indefinite amount of time, upon awakening they find that the Sith Empire and the Republic been all but destroyed and a new galaxy threatening threat is here to mess stuff up headed by none other than an Immortal All Powerful Emperor.

 

But the fact that this is a stupidly unoriginal concept is not the primary issue here, the primary issue is that BioWare with this new expansion are literally trampling over the current era, the story and indeed the universe they have thus far built. The events of this game represented a culmination of the TOR era as a whole, and all the characters and stories in it. Everything that has come to pass, the Mandalorian Wars, the subsequent fall of Revan and Malak and Jedi Civil War, Revan's disappearance, the Exile's reemegence and disappearance, Traya's prophecies about the Unknown Regions, first Great Galactic War, Vitiate's growing power, all climax in the events of this game.

 

They've constructed a deep and developed narrative, and a good one, for all its flaws. But instead of completing this story, of giving us the final act and resolution, of concluding arcs surrounding Saresh, Vitiate, the Mandalorians, Lana & Theron, Revan, Jadus etc. and all eight player stories and their characters, BioWare has instead decided on a none too subtle apocalypse in which all those characters and stories are thrown in the trash in favour completely new and unrelated ones, an essential overhaul of everything about the TOR era we have come to know and love.

 

Imagine for a moment that the same had happened to the original movies, assume for a moment the Prequels were released first, leading all the way up to the ESB. But instead of getting Return of the Jedi, the culmination and conclusion of everything that has come to pass, we get Rise of the Vong, in which just as the Second Death Star is about to become fully armed and operation, an extra galactic race of spiky bug people invade the galaxy and destroy the Empire and the Rebellion as we know it, Palpatine dies, Vader dies, and Han, Luke and Leia are frozen in carbonite, only to emerge several decades later to a galaxy in ruins, ruled over by the Evil Emperor 2.0.

 

Would that be a satisfying film? Would you cry out with joy and excitement as Luke, forgetting that whole business about Vader being his Father and his destiny to destroy the Emperor, goes off to topple Emperor Zorg instead?

 

Or would you come out of the cinema feeling as if the narrative you'd come to know and love had just been ripped to pieces and thrown in the proverbial fire? Well, thank the Maker BioWare aren't involved in the new movies.

 

And that's the issue, Knights of the Fallen Empire is set not only to destroy, but completely undermine the TOR era as a whole. All that story, all those characters, and all that struggle, has been for nought. Revan, the Exile, and indeed the galaxy's struggle against the Emperor? Waste of time, they've been fighting the wrong guy. Traya's predictions about a threat waiting in the dark, lingering in the Unknown Regions? Sorry love, you were looking the wrong way. The galaxy spanning war between Jedi & Sith, Empire and Republic? Decades, no centuries in the making? A mere backdrop to this oh so much more awesome and threatening force, with its stronger, shiny new Emperor. An Emperor and his Empire who have come out of nowhere, with no build up, no culmination, no rhyme or reason.

 

But maybe it's too early to make judgement on this expansion, maybe by some miracle of storytelling BioWare will give us a concrete and satisfying conclusion to the story arcs of the current era, and indeed make this Fallen Empire the essential and inevitable conclusion to TOR as we know it. But as it stands, and no doubt far too late, I'm beginning to realise that the main pillar of BioWare they now claim to be returning to is not "Story", but Money. TOR has become a cash cow, and in the wake of the new movies they've decided bigger, better and flashier is the way to go.

 

I watched Jurassic World the other day (great film), and now I think about it the plot to build a bigger and badder dinosaur is uncanny in similarity. Suffice to say most of the people involved ended up getting eaten, so fingers crossed that the same fate will befall the beloved developers behind this "new and exciting chapter" in stupidity.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Beniboybling

I was worried about your opinion until you considered Jurassic World as a "great movie"

Just my thoughts, not asking anyone to share them.

I disagree with your post entirely, and I think it all stems from the fact you view Vitiate as an interesting and developed character. He's really not.

 

I love the idea of this new expansion, and my reasoning behind that is pretty simple. It's new. This is a never before seen faction with limitless possibilities, yes it is more dangerous than the empire, but that's relatively speaking. For all we know this empire is the size of the Hapes Consortium and happened to actually exploit the war to it's own end.

 

Vitiate was always going to end. He was never going to consume the galaxy and all life in it, we know that, we always knew that. From a story standing, making an antagonist that would never under any circumstances achieve his goal is not good. There was no fear, no threat that he'd actually manage it. Even planet wise, what was left to drain? Coruscant wouldn't be hit. Correllia wouldn't be hit. Alderaan would not be hit. Balmorra would not be hit. All these seats of galactic power, dominance, they will remain untouched because the lore demands that they remain untouched.

 

So tell me, where were they expected to go? Have Vitiate drain a nameless planet, then another nameless planet before he's killed in an operation? Oh, how terrifying. How fun. How creative.

 

The best he could do would be drain Dromund Kaas, and then what? The empire is destroyed by their own selfish emperor, completely mirroring the way Palpatine destroyed the Galactic Empire by basing it so it could not survive without him. It's boring, it's repetitive, and it's been done before.

 

But this new empire has a thousand and one story opportunities. They are limitless in what they can do with "The Empire of Zakuul." For all we know, this was a single conglomerate of planets that slowly and surely gained power by politically playing both sides of the war, until they could build an army to conquer a galaxy that was consuming itself in war. For all we know, this Emperor isn't even force sensitive. Perhaps he merely has the support of the military, that his only heir is fanatically loyal to him, and he's viewed as a God for what he did for his people?

 

For once, we don't actually know what's going to happen in Star Wars, and I don't know about you, but that excites me.

Everything I've heard about the addon makes me happy. My opinion. I wasn't that hyped for something about that game since the first trailers of SW:ToR some years ago.

Interesting points, however, this isn't just about Vitiate but the era as a whole, nor is the concept itself one I am at odds with. Admittedly I'm not entirely sold on the whole new Force using faction, but it could be made to work, and I like the aesthetic. I could even get over the fact that we are faced with yet another all powerful and immortal Emperor (who for the record is very likely a Force sensitive and a dark sider, as we see is eyes glow orange at the end of the trailer) if it wasn't so close to the current one. And that's really the issue, the timing from a story point of view, I feel is terrible.

 

Take my analogy for example, I'm not a big fan of the Vong as you well know, but I'm not wholly against the concept, mainly because, personal preference aside, it functions from a storytelling perspective. It's set well after post-ROTJ where that era and the story arcs with in it have been brought to firm conclusion, rather than rudely interrupting it. The heroes were ready for a new challenge, it may not have come in the best form but it still worked as a concept.

 

In that respect I feel BioWare should have brought this chapter to a firm close, and realistically there is a lot more to be told, beyond Vitiate, who in many respects, has become a side story at this point. Then, several decades or preferably centuries down the line, introduce this Empire of Zakuul when the galaxy is no longer in the middle of a massive war and knee deep in various galactic threats. Preferably with brand new characters, for a brand new setting.

 

But as it stands Knights of the Fallen Empire is premature and underdeveloped, and in order for it to flourish TOR as we know it is probably going to die an abrupt and demeaning death. One thing that could be done at this point is develop two separate continuities, one concerning the current events of TOR, and one a long period down the line concerning the Empire of Zakuul, but I fear that instead our protags wil get a holocall and drop everything to jump into a vat of carbonite, which will be jarring to say the least. Fingers crossed we'll get at least some semblance of closure.

 

EDIT: Not sure where your getting this "single conglomerate of planets that slowly and surely gained power by politically playing both sides of the war" from, I got a more "super secret ancient Empire waiting to strike" vibe.

 

EDIT: Concering "Vitiate was always going to end" however, I think that can be said of all villains. The antagonist always loses, and the same thing is going to happen to this Empire of Zakuul, they are going to lose, this Emperor will fail and die etc. etc. but its not about that, the role of the antaognist is to serve as a foil to the heroes, and though they will be inevitably defeated, what is important is how those characters grow and develop in surmounting that obstacle.

 

In that respect, the fact that Vitiate was always going to end isn't important, and it doesn't make him a poor villain, what is important or rather was important was how the Republic and Empire would develop in beating him.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Beniboybling

Man, you haven't played the expansion yet, one. Second, it's been announced for like two days. And third, we have scarce information of the actual spoilery part of the storyline, meaning that, as you mentioned in the OP, we have no idea if Vitiate is a part of this or if the loose ends will be tied in this expansion.

 

You're being paranoid, let BioWare do its job, you said yourself that they had built a great story up until now-- why drop your trust in them now? This looks amazing. They have years of experience in stuff like this, they know what they're doing, they haven't forgotten the Emperor I bet you a million credits-- these people know how to tell a story, man.

 

Just have faith in them and don't worry, you're only hurting yourself because BioWare already knows their own plans.

You may have already guessed, but I'm none to pleased.

*too

 

BioWare has instead decided on a none to subtle apocalypse...

*too

 

A mere backdrop to this oh so much more awesome and threatening force, with it's stronger, shiny new Emperor.

*its

 

But maybe it's too early to make judgement on this expansion...

Now you've got it!

 

As for the message as a whole, I do feel that same fear, but by the same token, it could be exactly what this game needs. I mean, it's not just another big bad emperor; this will include new companions and a more impactful story. To top it off, we're getting these amazing CGI trailers, which really make it feel like we're returning to the good old days.

 

I don't know, really. That's just my two cents; it could be another washed out expansion, or it'll be something great. My hopes are on the latter.

Man, you haven't played the expansion yet, one. Second, it's been announced for like two days. And third, we have scarce information of the actual spoilery part of the storyline, meaning that, as you mentioned in the OP, we have no idea if Vitiate is a part of this or if the loose ends will be tied in this expansion.

 

You're being paranoid, let BioWare do its job, you said yourself that they had built a great story up until now-- why drop your trust in them now? This looks amazing. They have years of experience in stuff like this, they know what they're doing, they haven't forgotten the Emperor I bet you a million credits-- these people know how to tell a story, man.

 

Just have faith in them and don't worry, you're only hurting yourself because BioWare already knows their own plans.

Not gonna lie my faith in BioWare has taken a major hit, and I'm not really convinced they'll turn this around, but if somehow they do, they'll have my eternal gratitude and respect.

As for the message as a whole, I do feel that same fear, but by the same token, it could be exactly what this game needs. I mean, it's not just another big bad emperor; this will include new companions and a more impactful story. To top it off, we're getting these amazing CGI trailers, which really make it feel like we're returning to the good old days.

 

I don't know, really. That's just my two cents; it could be another washed out expansion, or it'll be something great. My hopes are on the latter.

True, at the very least but wiping the slate clean, they are in a position to replace it with a superior story.

I really feel for you here Beni and I would like you to read this.

 

Now for your reasoning, well, you are reasoning out of a standpoint that now are called Legends, and not viewed on as canon, so the two continuities you fear is already established.

 

As the TOR Era now moves from the Great Galactic War we move into a gigantic black hole considering the EU timeline: arriving at the Ruusan campaign via the 'New Sith War', sure we have a 'Empire' that spanned the galaxy except the core worlds and some satellite colonies, a 'republic' on a decline, some 'dark age'. My point being that there's a lot of holes to fill here

 

My personal thoughts? Well Vitiate life time span a millennia or more, Emperor Valkorion probably is Vitiate. We get our own 'Force awakens' adventure, who knows, maybe we will be brought in to canon at some point in the near future!!?

I'm trying to say optimistic about the future as I have for everything after Disney took over Star Wars. It seems like Bioware is trying to reboot the story but I think they could have continued the current one now just fine, I had a bunch of ideas for future plots like Mandalorians trying to conquer a weakened Galaxy (from the Emperor) or the Star Cabal from the Agent Story.

Man, you haven't played the expansion yet, one. Second, it's been announced for like two days. And third, we have scarce information of the actual spoilery part of the storyline, meaning that, as you mentioned in the OP, we have no idea if Vitiate is a part of this or if the loose ends will be tied in this expansion.

 

You're being paranoid, let BioWare do its job, you said yourself that they had built a great story up until now-- why drop your trust in them now? This looks amazing. They have years of experience in stuff like this, they know what they're doing, they haven't forgotten the Emperor I bet you a million credits-- these people know how to tell a story, man.

 

Just have faith in them and don't worry, you're only hurting yourself because BioWare already knows their own plans.

 

ever seen smokey and the bandit 3 ? sometimes the storytellers loose the plot. I at least hope we get some satisfactory answers to all the characters we have grown attached to. Perhaps it will be set only ten or twenty years later giving many a chance to reappear or at least a transition chapter to play first before we get slung in carbonite

I'm trying to say optimistic about the future as I have for everything after Disney took over Star Wars. It seems like Bioware is trying to reboot the story but I think they could have continued the current one now just fine, I had a bunch of ideas for future plots like Mandalorians trying to conquer a weakened Galaxy (from the Emperor) or the Star Cabal from the Agent Story.

 

maybe darth Jadus is the main villain

For the most part I agree(I think Valkorion is almost certainly Vitiate). They kept repeating the talking point that players wanted more of a focus on story. I certainly did. But I didn't want just any story: I wanted the story TOR was telling. For some completely unknown faction to destroy everything we've known about TOR... demeaning indeed.

 

Such a dramatic departure should be done in a new game, not an expansion.

 

The only thing keeping me from being negative about it is the hope that they're overselling the state the galaxy is in.

Since everything was pretty damn boring after Corellia I don't mind them throwing it all away.

Totally agree! they still don't even show Vitiate's most powerfull original Sith body named on the books with the eyes black as the void of space who link his essence to do not let him die... and this Valkorion name and character looks and sound like a space Viking with George Lucas face wearing a technoman armor from a Japanese serie from the 80ts serie of the same subject, and even the name Eternal empire is not something original, same **** copy like infinite empire from Rakata in other synonym, this looks rather forced and pretty wanton. Ps And yes, Vitiate is a great character if they achieve to handled as Drew Karpyshyn development in the book, with creepy stories that develop from childhood, i think it deserves comics and others publications

So I gather most of us have heard about BioWare's plans for a new expansion, if not I'd suggest visiting the following:

 

http://www.starwarstheoldrepublic.com/fallen-empire

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20150615

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20150615

 

You may have already guessed, but I'm none too pleased. And this thread is basically serving as a vent for my rage at what I believe to be frankly atrocious storytelling, so bear with me. Anyway, no more smilies, time to get serious.

 

To give a quick summary of what BioWare plans: your character is frozen in carbonite for an indefinite amount of time, upon awakening they find that the Sith Empire and the Republic been all but destroyed and a new galaxy threatening threat is here to mess stuff up headed by none other than an Immortal All Powerful Emperor.

 

But the fact that this is a stupidly unoriginal concept is not the primary issue here, the primary issue is that BioWare with this new expansion are literally trampling over the current era, the story and indeed the universe they have thus far built. The events of this game represented a culmination of the TOR era as a whole, and all the characters and stories in it. Everything that has come to pass, the Mandalorian Wars, the subsequent fall of Revan and Malak and Jedi Civil War, Revan's disappearance, the Exile's reemegence and disappearance, Traya's prophecies about the Unknown Regions, first Great Galactic War, Vitiate's growing power, all climax in the events of this game.

 

They've constructed a deep and developed narrative, and a good one, for all its flaws. But instead of completing this story, of giving us the final act and resolution, of concluding arcs surrounding Saresh, Vitiate, the Mandalorians, Lana & Theron, Revan, Jadus etc. and all eight player stories and their characters, BioWare has instead decided on a none too subtle apocalypse in which all those characters and stories are thrown in the trash in favour completely new and unrelated ones, an essential overhaul of everything about the TOR era we have come to know and love.

 

Imagine for a moment that the same had happened to the original movies, assume for a moment the Prequels were released first, leading all the way up to the ESB. But instead of getting Return of the Jedi, the culmination and conclusion of everything that has come to pass, we get Rise of the Vong, in which just as the Second Death Star is about to become fully armed and operation, an extra galactic race of spiky bug people invade the galaxy and destroy the Empire and the Rebellion as we know it, Palpatine dies, Vader dies, and Han, Luke and Leia are frozen in carbonite, only to emerge several decades later to a galaxy in ruins, ruled over by the Evil Emperor 2.0.

 

Would that be a satisfying film? Would you cry out with joy and excitement as Luke, forgetting that whole business about Vader being his Father and his destiny to destroy the Emperor, goes off to topple Emperor Zorg instead?

 

Or would you come out of the cinema feeling as if the narrative you'd come to know and love had just been ripped to pieces and thrown in the proverbial fire? Well, thank the Maker BioWare aren't involved in the new movies.

 

And that's the issue, Knights of the Fallen Empire is set not only to destroy, but completely undermine the TOR era as a whole. All that story, all those characters, and all that struggle, has been for nought. Revan, the Exile, and indeed the galaxy's struggle against the Emperor? Waste of time, they've been fighting the wrong guy. Traya's predictions about a threat waiting in the dark, lingering in the Unknown Regions? Sorry love, you were looking the wrong way. The galaxy spanning war between Jedi & Sith, Empire and Republic? Decades, no centuries in the making? A mere backdrop to this oh so much more awesome and threatening force, with its stronger, shiny new Emperor. An Emperor and his Empire who have come out of nowhere, with no build up, no culmination, no rhyme or reason.

 

But maybe it's too early to make judgement on this expansion, maybe by some miracle of storytelling BioWare will give us a concrete and satisfying conclusion to the story arcs of the current era, and indeed make this Fallen Empire the essential and inevitable conclusion to TOR as we know it. But as it stands, and no doubt far too late, I'm beginning to realise that the main pillar of BioWare they now claim to be returning to is not "Story", but Money. TOR has become a cash cow, and in the wake of the new movies they've decided bigger, better and flashier is the way to go.

 

I watched Jurassic World the other day (great film), and now I think about it the plot to build a bigger and badder dinosaur is uncanny in similarity. Suffice to say most of the people involved ended up getting eaten, so fingers crossed that the same fate will befall the beloved developers behind this "new and exciting chapter" in stupidity.

I am rather annoyed that they wiped the board of the empire and the republic, since I rather liked the concept of the factions.

The logistical improbability of waging a two front war against powers that control almost the entire galaxy is stupid. The sheer numbers of planets they would have to take to win would kill their advance if nothing else does.

 

but beyond that I see why they did it. They need to unify the plotlines in a permanent manner. SWTOR 1.0 was KOTOR eight times over by itself, and that took them half a decade to develop. They used unified story as a stop gap, but really that got stupid fast. Ziost arc as a trooper? Yeah mah blaster rifle is such a great thing to fight a entity that is bordering on god status.

 

While the carbonite freeze is totally stupid. (Why would a Dark Council member freeze themselves? That's just begging them to have their power base stolen and take a lightsaber through their carbonite frozen gut.) It's just a necessary evil to bring in the new story. (although they really should have spent at least one of those 9 chapters showing the fall of the galaxy)

 

Besides FE is classic star wars. Look at Arcann as Anakin and the entire trailer clicks into place. It's basically the prequel story only with the black-robed brother filling the plot position of both Padme and Obi-wan. Our character's new story will basically be starting out in the original trilogy.

 

Oh and at least the new emperor has a physical body. I'm getting a little sick of this "super god entity" as a villain. Less voodoo more pew pew.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Zoom_VI

Well we got 4 months to see the beginning of the end to have it begin again and as you write Zoom_Vi, we might just see a path into canon emerge from this. The origin of the sith is some what of a clean slate when it comes to New Canon. the only known Sith(dark Force antagonists) in New Canon is;

 

Darth Bane

Darth Bane's apprentice

Darth Plagueis

Darth Sidious

Darth Maul

Darth Tyranus

Asajj Ventress

Savage Opress

Darth Vader

 

Mother Talzin might be one as well

 

What we know of the Old Republic is really just from the prequels, and in some aspect TCW, according to New Canon, but I do believe that we gonna get, if not a bucket full, so at least a great deal references to the old republic in the new episode 7. I think in the wake of that we will see the rest of the chapters ingame have references to that fact( christ I just sounded of as Fido there:eek:)

 

Now, I don't say that we have to like it- I tend to view our Old Republic as Ancient greece and the time before that, just to make sense of it all.

 

EDIT; As for originality, well: Guess its a matter of ones point of view!

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2015 by t-darko

I think we might be getting ahead of ourselves in talking about a canonisation of SWTOR, its already been said by the Story Group that TOR is its own universe, they don't plan on tampering with it, but they've made no mention or demonstrated any intention to canonise it in the near future, so I don't expect this new expansion to change anything.

I think we might be getting ahead of ourselves in talking about a canonisation of SWTOR, its already been said by the Story Group that TOR is its own universe, they don't plan on tampering with it, but they've made no mention or demonstrated any intention to canonise it in the near future, so I don't expect this new expansion to change anything.

 

Quite true, but what do we have, if not speculation . . .

Where did you get the idea that you are frozen in carbonite? I didnt see that in any of the links you shared. Seeing how one of the companions you get was in his 30's when Satele was a padawan and at game play start she is the head of the order that you have been frozen for years would make that more than problematic. Thing is being frozen for an undetermined amount of time makes Nico Okarr at that point pretty much a senior citizen who's bones creak and needs a walker. He may or may not even be senile. Lets say he is in his 20's-30's in the Return trailer. Satele is a padawan. You then have the Alderaan Trailer where she is a knight and then the Decieved trailer. She has a kid who is an adult and an active agent by the Revan thing, so at least 20 years if not more has passed. So by this time Nico is in his 40's-50's. The oldest human companion is 65 and can turn into a Rackghoul which is probably where he gets his vitality from. Here is more how I see it is going to go. You are off dealing with the Emperor who has returned (they need to tie this up first before the expansion). As with the fight with Revan Marr,Satele etc are fighting with you. A new group unknown until this time by either side invades en masse and overwhelms both sides since their best fighters are dealing with Vitatae. You return as the Outlander.

From my point of view, it's quite probable -and pretty plausible- that the main part of the story of Tenebrae/Vitiate is just going to begin with The Immortal Emperor Valkoryon Who is "exactly" the same person, after achieving the status of something in-between a Force-User demigod and a God who is nearly omnipotent and omniscient ...

My point is that SW:TOR so far was just (and exactly) the final phase, the final stage of the evolution of The "weakly immortal" Vitiate into The "strongly immortal" Valkoryon!! Since He achieved that not ... unimportant achievement, He is at last fear-free and ready to try to become happy and happier ... and to present Himself in person to the SW audience...

 

Since I ain't a prophet, we have to wait until the release of SW:TOR;KotFE.

To be honest, I am (almost) completely certain though...

 

In the meantime you could pay a visit at this thread of mine: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=817884

Edited June 21, 2015 by cunctatorg

My only hope is that they finally deal with the dark jedi that are still treated as jedi without problems. Canon should not allow for a jedi so corrupted by the dark side of the force to be allowed to live by other jedi.

Where did you get the idea that you are frozen in carbonite?

 

 

about 5hr 29min into this vid is the start of the interview where it it "spoiled", if you don't want to watch the trailer again skip to 5hr 35min

 

 

EDIT: http://t.co/5Fw30xErvf also in this piece.

Edited June 19, 2015 by BrodieSolo

OP.

 

Dude. Seriously.

 

The game is *NOT* doomed because it doesn't appeal to you personally. Full stop. You don't like the direction it's going? Don't play. Hate to break it to ya, but your opinion isn't really shared on this one. I know people who grew darkly cynical about the game who are jumping up and down with glee over everything they've seen or read of it lately. (Including me). I'm sorry you can't be part of the crowd that's thrilled to see what's coming down the pipeline; that's your business. But to suggest RIP SWTOR just because you don't like what's happening? Do you think the game's fate hinges slowly on your sub fee per month?

 

Lighten up, man. It's the Year of Star Wars. Great things happening in the franchise right now. Let go and enjoy it.