Hey everyone!

 

One of the first things I wanted to do when I joined the Community team was something that I have seen requested over and over in the past few months: get the Combat team to write an in-depth explanation of the Bolster system. I'm happy to be able to bring you that explanation today!

 

Hey gang! I know a number of people have been waiting on a post about some more specifics on how bolster works and interacts with items and the regular stat system, so I thought I would try to bring a little light to what is one of the more complicated systems we have in ToR. I think it is easiest to go through (a slightly simplified version of) the process the bolster system goes through when you enter a warzone and become bolstered. Note: Along with all of the item specific stuff that I’m going to explain, Bolster also increases a character’s level, granting some base stats and increasing the rank of player’s abilities to be competitive. For the sake of trying to keep the post to a readable size (and because I think people mostly just care about the item portion of the system) I’m going to skip talking about the specifics of that process. The short version of that process is: if you aren’t 55, we make you 55 and give you all of the baseline stats that you would have gotten between the level you are and the 55, and then we throw some extra generic bonuses at you to make up for the fact that you don’t have all your abilities and skill points.

To start, some quick notes on terminology here:

 

• Power: When I say power in the rest of the post, I am referring to a generic concept of total item power, and *not* the specific character stat power

• PvE Stats: Stats that are used in PvE combat. Effectively, every stat in the game except Expertise.

 

The Basics:

Bolster relies on the idea that we are trying to boost players up to a certain item power level, abstracted to a number we call item rating. This item rating effectively determines how much stat, armor value, weapon damage value, etc., is given to a particular item. At the most generic level, the bolster system looks through each individual item slot a character has equipped, and if that slot is below the target item rating it gives the character enough of PvE stats to make up the difference along with a full complement of expertise (assuming the item doesn’t have any expertise to begin with). Any item that has a higher rating than the target item rating receives no PvE stat and a smaller block of expertise.

 

The Specifics:

For each particular item slot, the Bolster needs to figure out what the rating of that slot is. To do this, it takes the weighted average of the ratings for each mod that exists on the item (if it is a modded item), or the actual rating of the item (if it isn’t a modded item). The weight given to each mod is directly relative to the amount of power each mod is given in the item system, which for all of the non-crystals is identical in ToR. Crystals have a significantly smaller power budget, and so don’t have as much of impact on the rating average as a “normal” mod. Once the system has the item rating for that slot it combines that data with how a character has spent his or her skill points (to help determine what kind of roll a character wants to play), and generates a baseline set of stats that it assumes the character has on that particular item and a set of bolstered stats it should have at the target bolstered item rating. The system then simply gives the character the difference between the assumed baseline set and the bolstered set of stats. For specifically the expertise stat, there is an extra step: if the item already had any value of expertise, then we totally ignore any amount of expertise that we should add regardless of any rating difference.

 

The amount of stat we define at each item rating level follows the exact same item creation formulas that our item guys do, and we do our best to assign out those stats to what we think an average player of that particular class/advanced class/skill tree would like in a ratio. In a perfect world, you could take a full set of item rating 100 gear and a bolster effect to 100, and you have totally identical stats if you modded the items in the same we selected stats for bolster.

 

This is all well and good for items that have ratings below our targets, but what about items that are above our target! Any item that results in an averaged item rating above the bolster target rating gets absolutely no PvE stats added, but it can still get expertise. See the next section for Expertise info!

 

Expertise (Does a Body Good):

Expertise is a multiplicative stat that only applies when you are in PvP combat. It has 3 systemic effects: it increases damage done by a %, it decreases damage taken by a %, and it increases healing by a %. Because this is a multiplicative stat, it means that in PvP, a player with much lower PvE stats but with a higher multiplier can result in a more powerful character in PvP versus someone with higher PvE stats but worse (or no) multiplier. A simple and extreme example of this would be a player who hits for 50 damage with a x6 multiplier (for 300 total damage) versus a guy who hits for 100 damage but with only a 2x multiplier (for 200 total damage). Even though Player A’s base damage is significantly lower than Player B’s base damage, in PvP he is way better off. This allows us to set an overall power level range for PvP (with the floor being a full bolstered character and the ceiling being the best augmented PvP gear) and we can insert PvE gear inside this range wherever we want simply by modifying how much expertise that gear receives. As your PvE gear gets more and more PvE stats compared to the PvP gear set, we remove expertise to keep the power of that gear in check. The result is that we can ensure that PvP gear is always better than PvE gear (in PvP), regardless of the purely PvE stat differentials.

 

I hope this brings some light on just how the bolster system actually works, and I imagine it will spawn a number of follow up questions. We will try to answer what we can.

 

If anyone has questions, just post them here and I will compile them and take them back to the team!

 

Thanks everyone!

If anyone has questions, just post them here and I will compile them and take them back to the team! Thanks everyone!

 

No, thank you (and the team) for your hard work. As for questions, where is chapter 4 of our class stories? :D

Thank you for the explanation! Now keep it up and keep posting in here please!

The post does not address why a PVE mainhand is still better than a Obroan mainhand. A mainhand weapon with level 63 hilt, mod, and enhancement bolsters to be better than Obroan gear (approximately 0.5 - 1% more bonus damage, and 0 expertise loss).

 

Edit:

 

Thanks for the post. I'm not dismissing the post, I'm addressing one particular issue.

Edited January 9, 2014 by TheCourier-

For the most part this seems to confirm what the community theory-crafters had determined, but there are a few specific issues that this doesn't address:

 

1. As discussed in this thread, Bolster creates an environment where certain combinations of PvE items are Best-in-Slot weapons; why are PvP-specific items getting beaten at their own game?
   
2. Why is the expertise addition calculated such that people are better off with a full set of 66 blue armorings / mods / enhancments than their regular PvE gear? It's extremely unintuitive to be required to down-grade to a lower tier of PvE gear to get better performance in warzones.
   
3. Why does the bolster system punish the mixing of PvE & PvP mods on the same item, instead of applying normal bolster bonuses to the PvE portions of that item?
   

Remove bolster from ranked

Remove bolster

That part will suffice.

And it only took 9 months and the newest member of the community team to accomplish this.

TODAY IS A BlG DAY.

 

Remove bolster from ranked

Edited January 9, 2014 by Morde_

I mean, good on you for finally making this post...but this really doesn't explain anything new. Most of this the community already figured out on its own. I think most everyone was hoping for a more mathematical equation on how it deals with each slot/mod rather than this broad explanation that we all figured out already. It also still doesn't address why certain mixtures of pve tiered mods bolster higher than full pvp gear. Or maybe the dev team just is not aware of it given the last sentence in the post seems to suggest otherwise.

SOOOO ummmmmm yeah. What about the pve weapons giving better stats than the pvp weapons?

Also why the heck is this not stickied? If anything here should but it is this.

This is probably a post Eric has been putting off for a while now, and finally was able to throw the new person to the sharks instead.

 

Thanks new person!

Question -

Why havent the developers adopted the Guild Wars 2 approach by boosting everyone to max level, unlock all abilities then play pvp? This way, its all about skill instead of gear.

 

Bolster helps but when you lack key abilities especially in the 30-54 bracket, it can get very painful

Lol.

 

So 8 months later after promising it (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6171888#post6171888), the Combat Team finally responds with a post that is:

 

- Way too late

- Not quite "mathy" at all, although no1 really cares

- Already been said and explained by numerous players in forums

- Adds nothing new to what we've already figured out

- Still does not address the fact that PvE MH/OH and Earpieces/Implants are better than Obroan

 

Keep up the great work guys!

Edited January 9, 2014 by ParagonAX

I mean, good on you for finally making this post...but this really doesn't explain anything new. Most of this the community already figured out on its own. I think most everyone was hoping for a more mathematical equation on how it deals with each slot/mod rather than this broad explanation that we all figured out already. It also still doesn't address why certain mixtures of pve tiered mods bolster higher than full pvp gear. Or maybe the dev team just is not aware of it given the last sentence in the post seems to suggest otherwise.

 

I will echo this sentiment. We already knew not to have any expertise on an item unless it had full expertise. We already knew that having high level PvE gear reduced the amount of expertise you have. What we want to know, is the equation for how it determines these values so we don't have to buy every piece of gear in the game to find the BiS option.

I will echo this sentiment. We already knew not to have any expertise on an item unless it had full expertise. We already knew that having high level PvE gear reduced the amount of expertise you have. What we want to know, is the equation for how it determines these values so we don't have to buy every piece of gear in the game to find the BiS option.

 

Just being confident that the PvP gear would for sure be BIS would be enough for me. Problem is, it isn't. The easier, non-ranked comms PvP gear should be even better than bolstered PvE gear IMO.

Remove bolster from ranked, and also insert a gear check for that, my heart crash everytime a player with 24k hp join my ranked arena, i beg you please

I like this new guy. He can stick around for a while

I like this new guy. He can stick around for a while

 

We'll drive him insane first.

Well nice to see you here... But there is nothing new and this is definitely not a "mathy post".

 

So http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070106155836/uncyclopedia/images/archive/1/15/20070526081818!CaptainobviousChooseOption.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

We'll drive him insane first.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Glower

Some questions that havent been answered (by the players or the staff) I at least would like an answer to:

1: What is the cap for bolster? Because on BC I see people coming in in 72 gear and they get bolstered to max. They come in in 78 gear and they have about 1000 expertise given to them. Obviously its above 72,but where is it?

 

2: With the constant increasing in PVE gear that has shown up in WZ's since RotHC,why were pvpers not started at 65 gear rather than 63? Having to reacquire the same level of PVP gear was utterly ridiculous and yet the PVE crowd gave us grief over this complaint when it happened.

 

3: Speaking of the PVE crowd, when are FP's and Ops going to get bolstered for us PVP players? I mean PVE players QQed about expertise until bolster was put in the 55 bracket,yet one hears all the time at fleet when they are looking for groups that you must have (insert number) rated gear,which if you look at it is basically the same thing PVP players have said about PVP gear in WZ's,i.e. if you want to play and do well you must have the gear. So when is turn around going to be fair play? I mean why should the WZ's be the only bolster in effect allowing people who to jump in with their PVP gear when PVPers cannot do the same in FP's and Ops?

Can you please address the ability of players to get around the bolster system?

 

Many players claim that bolster is calculated while entering a match, and to gain an unfair advantage, un-equipping crystals and/or augments etc. prior to the match, then re-installing them after bolster has apparently been calculated will result in the stats of said re-equipped items being added on top of the already calculated bolster stats.

 

Is this true? or is the bolster calculation dynamic, making these claims unfounded?

 

Secondly, since the calculation of the skill tree is a factor, can you please elaborate on how this would apply to characters wearing full tanking gear but speced as DPS, or vice versa.

Will bolster add stats to these builds in a way that gives them an unfair advantage, as in effectively giving characters the power of both a tank and a DPS class to the player?

 

Thank you

I thought "expertise" as a stat was a bad idea from the beginning. Lower level players should get a boost but level capped characters should not, or there should be a grace period to gear up. Gear earned through PVP and PVE should be equivalent. A new raid cluster that introduces new gear should trigger a new pvp set. I find it silly that some gear can kill players and is not effective against pve targets and vice versa.

 

This is of course only if you think gear should be important in pvp. I for one think that for PVP players stats should be set to a level regardless of what the character is wearing. This would make skill the only important stat and it would also make "Balance" much easier because you would have a baseline for every profession. If the devs went this route they could make pvp changes without effecting PVE and vice versa. A skill that is balanced in PVE but too powerful in PVP could be adjusted accordingly without nerfing the PVE usefulness. Players would still earn gear through PVP but it would be an alternate to the PVE route not a competing situational set.

Hey everyone!

 

"The amount of stat we define at each item rating level follows the exact same item creation formulas that our item guys do, and we do our best to assign out those stats to what we think an average player of that particular class/advanced class/skill tree would like in a ratio. In a perfect world, you could take a full set of item rating 100 gear and a bolster effect to 100, and you have totally identical stats if you modded the items in the same we selected stats for bolster."

 

Thanks, Tait!

 

While most of the information appears to be well known by the community, it is nice to see it affirmed. However, the part I quoted above is something that I haven't seen discussed, and I do have a few questions about it for the devs.

 

1) The devs mentioned an "item rating". Is this an internal abstraction, or does this correspond to the actual "item level" we see on item/modification description? How does item quality fit into this picture? For example, Makeb Comm gear is 58P (Purple), current endgame gear is 78P, etc. Some gear levels (66 -- CZ-198 drops, old Basic Comm gear) had both Blue and Purple quality versions. Also, consider Conqueror gear -- it is listed as 63P, but is comprised of 65P modifications, while Obroan gear is listed as 67P with 67P modifications.

 

2) The devs referenced an item rating of '100'. Do they actually have a model for item rating 100, and is that the actual "target item rating" used for Bolster, or was that just a random number?

 

3) Do Augments affect Bolster's "item level" calculations, and if so, how? (If they don't, I assume that they are just straight additions after all other calculations are made).

 

I ask these questions, because L-RANDLE recently spent a lot of time examining Bolstered items, and one of the conclusions appeared to be that (for the "big five" armor pieces -- ones with an armoring, modification, and enhancement) that there was a 'magic number" (essentially a reverse engineering of the weighted average) of 196, and that if the armor+mod+enhancement levels were <= 196, the item got full Expertise, and above this got a discounted rate. While this looks nice on paper, there was still a lot of discussion and experimentation as to whether or not (or how) the system treated 66 Blue and 66 Purple. Are they both level 66 items that should affect Bolster the same way, or do 66B and 66P map to different "true item levels" that we can't see?

 

tl;dr We needs moar math