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Annihilation and Carnage PvE Basics

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Annihilation and Carnage PvE Basics

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
11.15.2012 , 05:39 PM | #1
Preface: This is the same as my Sentinel Guide, just written in a language that Mauraders will understand. I decided to do this when I noticed that you guys don't have a real PvE guide that's been kept up to date.

The Marauder Advanced Class is a Pure DPS Melee class with varying degrees of Operations utility depending on the spec. The Annihilation tree brings extra interrupts and a raid wide 6% heal about every 30 seconds if managed well and the Carnage tree provides more spontaneous burst and increased Ops wide movement speed from the Predation buff.

Unique Marauder Mechanic:
What separates Marauders from Assassins and Juggernauts (aside from the fact that Marauders can't tank) is Fury which is built up by using abilities that spend Rage. At 30 stacks of Fury the abilities Berserk, Predation and Bloodthirst become available and are your main raid utility abilities. Berserk should be used nearly all the time because of how it affects each spec. Bloodthirst should be used at your raid leader's discretion, however it is most often used at the beginning of the fight (or shortly thereafter) for the possibility of being used later in the fight. Predation is mostly a Defensive/ Mobility skill that shines in PvP but has several uses during boss fights were mobility is key.

Annihilation:
Spoiler


Carnage:
Spoiler


Defensive Cooldowns/ Abilities:
Spoiler


Additional Rating Information
Spoiler


A few gearing and modification tips.

Armorings/ Hilts: Always go for the Strength heavy armorings and hilts. Always.

Mods: When looking to increase your overall damage the mods you should use are the Deft Mods (just plain 25, 26 and 27) and the Potent mods.

Enhancements: Each enhancement should be the (for example) 27 End/ 41 Rating A/ 57 Rating B and their counterparts depending on which of the Secondary stats you're working on.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that if your mods have more Endurance than Strength or Secondary Stats you're wrong and should feel bad.


In the Event that Torhead's talent calc is bugged, here are the links to the builds I've posted from another calc.

Annihilation:
31/3/7
31/7/0 + 3

Carnage:
5/31/2 + 3
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verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
11.16.2012 , 12:52 AM | #2
Very nicely written.

Very small mistake though, on annihilation you describe vicious slash as a rage builder rather than the rage dump I expect you meant.

Also, imo rupture should be used before annihilate if both get off cd since annihilate has a good chance to reset it. Exception is if you risk losing annihilator due to it either being about to go off ( 2 first stack of it have a smaller window after all, or you forgot and are about to lose 3rd stack) or rage being too low to use annihilate after.

Ravage fits rather well as a filler after you apply your bleed, since risk are you WILL be low on rage then (5 rage go into deadly saber/rupture) and while you dish that nice free damage, bleed build up more rage (hopefully)

Also, I personnally combine force charge with deadly saber. They have the same cooldown, and it ensure applying it never threaten annihilate, giving it an effective +1 rage on deadly saber activation. Rupture normally cover at least one rage in the duration, so it set up your bleeds rage wise, ensuring battering assault supply annihilate mostly, and at most one assault will be needed in the rotation, but should your deadly saber bleed generate at least two rage, you end up with a rage neutral rotation.

Any extras are put in vicious slash every 2-3 cycle or so, but annihilation having part of its rage random generated on the bleeds does mean its effectively a priority list, altough you can EXPECT certain result out of it.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
11.16.2012 , 08:21 AM | #3
I'll look into it, gotta get to class now lol, and about vicious slash for Anni, I said it was a FURY (Centering) builder. Not a Rage (Focus) builder.

Though if you do find anymore typographical errors let me know, I did all the editing in a notepad and I felt like I was looking at code for like 2 hours...
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TradeLA's Avatar


TradeLA
11.17.2012 , 02:45 AM | #4
Have to get some rest before looking too deeply, but don't know why you're recommending potent A's. They're just like defts but with crit instead of power, the best balance is always the generic whether it's deft or potent.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
11.17.2012 , 03:17 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TradeLA View Post
Have to get some rest before looking too deeply, but don't know why you're recommending potent A's. They're just like defts but with crit instead of power, the best balance is always the generic whether it's deft or potent.
Thought I changed that. Fixed.

In regards to my priority suggestions for Annihilation I place Annihilate above Rupture because of the comparative damage and the importance of maintaining the Annihilator buff, also because of the chance to refresh the cooldown on Rupture.

That said, having a basic "Rotation" or "Cycle" of Charge + Deadly > Battering > Rupture > Annihilate > Ravage (if off cd) is ideal. The reason why I didn't mention it was because I was simply listing the priorities for each spec. What's more important to hit when off cool down.

Edit: I'll include that "Cycle" or rotation suggestion though with the tidbit about using Ravage with Annihilation spec soon. Probably by the end of the weekend.
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TradeLA's Avatar


TradeLA
11.17.2012 , 03:56 PM | #6
The current widely accepted theory is that it's best to have up to 110% accuracy for ops, up from old theory which recommended 108%. Not sure why you are suggesting 100%+the 6% from talents that carnage maras get, which only adds up to 106%

Regarding strength vs power, there is a lot of argument and as one of those who has rigorously parsed, the difference is negligible. The reason for this is in your other point about crit vs power. 1% of crit is not going to be worth more or less than that few points of damage. Barring someone being grossly overbalanced with too much crit, there is little point in wasting time trying to optimize the balance of crit/pwr/str--it's all within a zone of about .5%. The only thing that really has an impact is trading off endurance for stats that improve damage.

That is one reason why, as you've suggested, those potent/deft mods are the key to optimization. Depending on tier, they offer up to 15 points of damage-improving stats over the poorly balanced, endurance heavy mods. But there are TWO other reasons--

First, mods give DOUBLE the stat point boost of both armorings and enhancements (armorings give +3, str per tier, enhancements +3 power/crit per tier, but mods give +3 str AND +3 pwr/crit per tier). Second, mods cost LESS to make than armorings, but the same as enhancements (for DG gear, it's 4 stabilizers for mods or enhancements, 6 for armorings). Vanilla Potent/Deft Mods are easily the best bang for buck item in-game.

This leads to one tip I think most guides leave out:

The fastest way to gear up from columi is not to waste time trying to get in ops hoping a piece of rakata your class can use drops--even if it does, most pieces have poorly optimized mods any way, and you gain little or even nothing over a piece of columi. However, the difference between a poorly balanced columi mod and a well-balanced dread guard mod is a whopping +24 points--the equivalent of replacing an entire piece of columi armor with a campaign/BH piece that has the same flavor mod/armoring/enhancements. The fastest way a marauder can gear up is farm cash from dailies and crafting/selling and buy mods or hire a crafter to make them. That makes it much easier to run EC HM and eventually TFB HM. Those well-balanced DG mods are ones you'd have to buy any way to optimize even a suit of Dread Guard farmed from TFB, and will easily be the best investment a marauder can make, at least until the next tier is introduced.

You might also want to clarify about the ravage/force scream, force scream/2xmassacre cycles and add that you can actually get in a third massacre once berserk is triggered. The massacres should always come first, followed by force scream, because Force scream has a "pause" at the end of the animation that you don't want eating up the gore timer.

Re: adding in rupture, I don't think it's worth it even for a veteran marauder. Adding another move in means another second and a half while your 6-sec blood frenzy is cooling down. Unless your blood frenzy just refreshed off your last massacre, it means, thanks to that extra second and a half, blood frenzy is going to wear off before you get through ravage (or the 2 to 3 massacres) and begin your force scream. If you get lucky and bf is still up when you get to force scream, rupture will boost damage a bit, but odds are you will be unlucky, and it will give you a low-end parse because you didn't nail the force scream while blood frenzy was up. In my experience, you can get lucky parses with rupture that beat parses without it, but more often, they are worse. Rupture complicates things and only adds a variable that more often works against the player than for them.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
11.17.2012 , 09:06 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TradeLA View Post
The current widely accepted theory is that it's best to have up to 110% accuracy for ops, up from old theory which recommended 108%. Not sure why you are suggesting 100%+the 6% from talents that carnage maras get, which only adds up to 106%
I said accuracy up to 100%. Then added that it's easy to reach that since you get 6% from Talents and Ataru Form.

The accuracy percentage I'm talking about is Melee Accuracy, which affects only Assault (and I think battering assault). All other abilities are affect by force accuracy.

Quote: Originally Posted by TradeLA View Post
You might also want to clarify about the ravage/force scream, force scream/2xmassacre cycles and add that you can actually get in a third massacre once berserk is triggered. The massacres should always come first, followed by force scream, because Force scream has a "pause" at the end of the animation that you don't want eating up the gore timer.

Re: adding in rupture, I don't think it's worth it even for a veteran marauder. Adding another move in means another second and a half while your 6-sec blood frenzy is cooling down. Unless your blood frenzy just refreshed off your last massacre, it means, thanks to that extra second and a half, blood frenzy is going to wear off before you get through ravage (or the 2 to 3 massacres) and begin your force scream. If you get lucky and bf is still up when you get to force scream, rupture will boost damage a bit, but odds are you will be unlucky, and it will give you a low-end parse because you didn't nail the force scream while blood frenzy was up. In my experience, you can get lucky parses with rupture that beat parses without it, but more often, they are worse. Rupture complicates things and only adds a variable that more often works against the player than for them.
Proper integration of Rupture is ALWAYS a DPS gain. The physical damage + the bleed damage is more damage than one Massacre. Using Rupture every 15 seconds usually equates to about 80-120 dps.

I also say use Scream before Massacre during Gore cycles because Scream, Crit or otherwise, always hits harder than Massacre, even with the offhand hit and Ataru form proc. That said, there's roughly the same delay between activation and damage of Massacre and Scream, and no noticeable delay preventing the activation of an ability after Scream, aside from latency and the global cooldown.
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Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
11.19.2012 , 05:27 PM | #8
When it comes to annihilation, you only use rupture if the bleed effect from it has worn off. I also would like to mentioned that full buffed you only need about 32-34% crit...power really becomes king if you're good at abusing your rage generation and fury building to get berserk as often as possible. It may net less dps though in a fight where you end up holding berserk for a burn phase compared to using it as soon as possible.

CatFishJohn's Avatar


CatFishJohn
11.24.2012 , 12:42 AM | #9
Thanks for making a returned Fouder's life easier. After a long break and a first day back respec, this post allowed me to jump back in with ease.
Bravo.
Sticky please.
That's no moon.

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SamuraBob_Fl
11.29.2012 , 07:16 PM | #10
Thanks! Reported for sticky.
...they'd never come to see me in this dive, where bikers stare at cowboys, who are laughing at the hippies, who are praying they'll get out of here alive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bplt6CQ3MyE