This discussion began in this thread.

The point is to analyze in-depth specific carnage marauder dummy and operation parses to evaluate advanced rotation styles and patterns. At the moment, the discussion centers on three points:

--To use rupture or not. Old school wisdom from the MMO-Mechanics days says it is damage neutral, basically a massacre and an assault averaged in one move. It complicates rotation and threatens to cause blood frenzy to run out before force scream hits. But currently some marauders swear by it, and several of the top carnage marauders on Torparse's TFB HM database use it.

--Gore+Massacrex2+Force Scream vs Gore+Massacrex3+Force Scream. If the marauder has three or more charges of Berserk left, it is possibly to fit a third massacre into the Gore armor penetration window. However, if timing is not perfect, Gore fades before Force Scream is activated, causing a net damage loss.

--Gore+Massacrex4 vs. Gore+Massacrex2 or 3+Force Scream. One of the stronger dummy parses shows the marauder using Gore+Massacrex4 when Gore is up and Ravage is on cooldown.

For evaluation, a perfectly "clean" dummy parse is considered:

--approximately 5 minutes

--cold start (no building rage before the timer)

--one bloodthirst

--full raid buffs/adrenals/stims, etc.

--no friends debuffing the dummy

The first couple of parses, edited for readability, follow in the next posts:

The following parse is from Vexo, who has several good scores in Torparse's TFB HM database. He scores 2123 over 5 mins 30 on the training dummy with one bloodthirst and the waiting period to exit combat edited out, 2086 with the exit combat left in. (He uses a legacy personal ship droid rather than the Ziost shadow one, which, in fact, has the same stats but tends to parse better because of all the lag on Ziost.)

http://www.torparse.com/a/44129/time/1352249208/1352249533

He uses the pattern Rupture-Massacre-Gore, and when Ravage follows Gore, he cancels it if blood frenzy is going to fade before using Force Scream. When Ravage isn't up, he consistently pops Berserk before Gore and hits Massacrex3-Force Scream.

Vexo's parse cleaned up:

18:46:48.991 Vexo enters combat.

18:46:49.017 Vexo activates Force Charge.

18:46:49.436 Vexo activates Rakata Attack Adrenal.

18:46:50.610 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:46:52.112 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:46:53.614 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:46:53.930 Vexo activates Gore.

18:46:55.117 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:46:58.032 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:46:58.033 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:46:59.626 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:01.129 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:02.627 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:47:04.225 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:05.746 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:07.249 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:47:08.749 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:09.062 Vexo activates Gore.

18:47:09.346 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:47:10.251 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:11.356 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:12.463 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:13.566 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:47:15.063 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:47:16.629 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:17.719 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:18.863 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:20.414 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:23.430 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:47:25.414 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:25.441 Vexo activates Gore.

18:47:26.531 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:47:29.437 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:47:29.437 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:47:31.062 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:32.616 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:47:34.114 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:35.614 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:37.109 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:38.620 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:47:40.131 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:40.447 Vexo activates Gore.

18:47:40.729 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:47:41.631 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:42.735 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:43.765 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:44.767 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:47:46.365 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:47:47.953 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:49.454 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:50.466 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:51.564 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:53.061 Vexo activates Assault.

18:47:54.566 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:47:56.082 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:47:56.399 Vexo activates Gore.

18:47:57.583 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:48:00.501 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:48:00.502 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:48:02.097 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:48:03.599 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:05.099 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:06.599 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:08.098 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:09.623 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:48:11.121 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:11.582 Vexo activates Gore.

18:48:11.914 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:48:12.686 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:13.788 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:14.899 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:15.999 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:48:17.553 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:48:19.046 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:20.648 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:21.649 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:22.750 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:24.262 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:25.766 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:48:27.262 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:27.579 Vexo activates Gore.

18:48:28.764 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:48:31.681 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:48:31.681 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:48:33.277 Vexo activates Battering Assault..

18:48:34.777 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:36.278 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:37.790 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:39.296 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:40.777 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:42.297 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:48:42.912 Vexo activates Gore.

18:48:43.093 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:48:43.796 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:44.795 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:45.897 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:46.904 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:48:48.495 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:48:50.007 Vexo activates Assault.

18:48:51.509 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:52.513 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:53.504 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:56.745 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:48:58.363 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:48:59.845 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:00.163 Vexo activates Gore.

18:49:01.352 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:49:04.367 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:49:05.957 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:07.460 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:49:08.961 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:10.466 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:11.965 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:13.484 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:49:14.984 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:15.313 Vexo activates Gore.

18:49:15.595 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:49:16.489 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:17.488 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:18.618 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:19.701 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:49:21.214 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:49:22.708 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:24.211 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:25.217 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:26.313 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:27.812 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:29.332 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:49:30.836 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:31.148 Vexo activates Gore.

18:49:32.332 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:49:35.351 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:49:36.944 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:49:38.447 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:39.945 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:41.459 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:42.959 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:44.466 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:49:45.965 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:46.396 Vexo activates Gore.

18:49:46.578 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:49:47.480 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:48.480 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:49.600 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:50.685 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:49:52.196 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:49:53.696 Vexo activates Assault.

18:49:55.198 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:56.285 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:57.699 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:49:59.077 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:00.680 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:50:02.179 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:02.414 Vexo activates Gore.

18:50:03.700 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:50:06.701 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:50:08.295 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:50:09.798 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:11.297 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:12.810 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:14.315 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:15.810 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:17.315 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:50:17.947 Vexo activates Gore.

18:50:18.129 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:50:18.829 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:19.832 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:20.932 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:21.950 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:50:23.566 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:50:25.044 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:26.557 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:27.558 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:28.661 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:30.155 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:31.674 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:33.176 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:50:34.673 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:34.909 Vexo activates Gore.

18:50:36.192 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:50:39.211 Vexo activates Force Scream..

18:50:40.722 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:42.225 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:50:43.744 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:45.244 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:46.737 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:48.243 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:50:49.741 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:50.074 Vexo activates Gore.

18:50:50.340 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:50:51.243 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:52.261 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:53.210 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:50:54.366 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:50:55.975 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:50:57.472 Vexo activates Assault.

18:50:59.006 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:00.126 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:01.225 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:02.972 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:04.376 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:51:05.996 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:06.109 Vexo activates Gore.

18:51:07.494 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:51:10.414 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:51:10.415 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:51:12.006 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:13.508 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:51:15.026 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:16.527 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:18.027 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:19.528 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:51:21.043 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:21.360 Vexo activates Gore.

18:51:21.641 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:51:22.545 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:23.645 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:24.748 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:25.766 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:51:27.296 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:51:28.801 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:29.796 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:30.913 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:32.409 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:34.026 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:35.697 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:51:37.299 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:37.515 Vexo activates Gore.

18:51:38.800 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:51:41.702 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:51:41.702 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:51:43.314 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:51:44.819 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:46.314 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:47.859 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:49.359 Vexo activates Assault.

18:51:50.886 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:51:52.782 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:53.198 Vexo activates Gore.

18:51:53.579 Vexo activates Berserk.

18:51:54.397 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:55.401 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:56.518 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:51:57.499 Vexo activates Force Scream.

18:51:59.117 Vexo activates Battering Assault.

18:52:00.601 Vexo activates Assault.

18:52:02.114 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:52:03.115 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:52:04.215 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:52:05.726 Vexo activates Assault.

18:52:06.245 Vexo activates Frenzy.

18:52:06.664 Vexo activates Bloodthirst.

18:52:07.372 Vexo activates Rupture.

18:52:08.951 Vexo activates Massacre.

18:52:09.263 Vexo activates Gore.

18:52:10.459 Vexo activates Ravage.

18:52:13.365 Vexo cancels Ravage.

18:52:13.366 Vexo activates Force Scream.

Following is the dummy parse of Ash'ley, who is actually a sentinel. He/she scores 2189 dps against the Ziost Shadow MK-5 operations dummy, but builds up a full bar of rage before starting the timer, and uses a second bloodthirst before exiting combat, and also edits out the exiting combat phase at the end of the parse, all of which pad the score a bit.

http://www.torparse.com/a/63697/time/1354566296/1354566637

I notice Ash'ley uses Rupture in rotation, but never near the start of Gore. He/she also uses Gore-Massacrex4 instead of Gore-Massacrex2 or 3+Force Scream. Here's the parse with the junk edited out and sentinel terminology translated to marauder:

20:21:01.601 Ash'ley gains Rakata Might Stim.

20:21:01.602 Ash'ley gains Force Might.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Force Valor.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Lucky Shots.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Fortification.

20:21:01.606 Ash'ley gains Safe Login Immunity.

20:21:01.636 Ash'ley gains Ataru Form.

20:21:01.637 Ash'ley gains Sprint.

20:21:10.933 Ash'ley loses Safe Login Immunity.

20:23:32.109 Ash'ley enters combat.

20:23:32.145 Ash'ley activates Force Leap.

20:23:33.931 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:35.304 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:23:36.888 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:38.493 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:39.995 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:41.495 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:43.016 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:44.656 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:46.204 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:47.752 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:49.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:52.412 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:23:54.011 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:56.323 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:36.520 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:38.217 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:39.889 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:41.499 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:24:43.199 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:50.315 Ash'ley leaves combat.

20:24:54.157 Ash'ley enters combat.

20:24:54.190 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:24:55.183 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:24:55.592 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal.

20:24:55.672 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:24:55.771 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:24:59.242 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:01.004 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:02.663 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:04.245 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:05.748 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:07.252 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:08.766 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:09.164 Ash'ley activates Frenzy.

20:25:09.474 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:25:10.364 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:11.871 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:13.478 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:13.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:14.585 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:15.677 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:16.769 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:25:17.874 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:19.455 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:21.061 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:22.637 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:24.331 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:25.743 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:27.295 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:28.970 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:29.182 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:25:32.673 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:34.382 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:35.868 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:37.468 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:38.967 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:40.466 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:41.076 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:25:41.984 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:43.529 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:45.046 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:45.048 Ash'ley gains Massacre.

20:25:46.653 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:46.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:47.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:48.746 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:49.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:50.864 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:52.490 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:54.096 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:55.721 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:57.361 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:58.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:00.461 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:02.096 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:02.173 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:26:05.685 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:07.295 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:08.794 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:10.288 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:11.789 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:13.293 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:13.788 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:26:14.887 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:16.409 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:17.919 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:19.425 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:19.509 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:20.645 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:21.795 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:22.898 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:23.902 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:25.518 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:27.108 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:28.618 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:30.111 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:31.680 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:33.189 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:34.794 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:34.869 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:26:38.376 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:39.884 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:41.488 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:42.986 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:44.591 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:46.079 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:46.594 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:26:47.772 Ash'ley activates Assault..

20:26:49.355 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:52.403 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:52.537 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:53.676 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:54.642 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:55.657 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:56.760 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:58.358 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:59.388 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:26:59.877 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:01.469 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:02.964 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:04.477 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:05.966 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:07.497 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:08.986 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:10.579 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:10.727 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:27:14.221 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:15.721 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:17.362 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:18.980 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:20.523 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:22.168 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:22.774 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:27:23.671 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:25.327 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:27.168 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:27.170 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:28.249 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:29.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:30.453 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:31.557 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:33.155 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:34.659 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:36.165 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:37.667 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:39.166 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:40.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:42.823 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:42.956 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:27:46.293 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:48.091 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:50.793 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:52.407 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:53.920 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:55.497 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:56.192 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:27:57.093 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:58.590 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:00.221 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:01.622 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:01.624 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:02.705 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:28:03.821 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:04.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:06.017 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:07.627 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:09.198 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:10.707 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:12.201 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:13.791 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:15.285 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:17.035 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal.

20:28:17.135 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:17.222 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:28:20.622 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:22.228 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:23.725 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:25.349 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:26.907 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:28.465 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:29.066 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:28:30.067 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:31.714 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:33.222 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:34.883 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:34.885 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:35.978 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:37.033 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:38.213 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:39.181 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:40.787 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:42.354 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:43.894 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:45.638 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:47.279 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:48.882 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:50.417 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:50.417 Ash'ley spends 1 .

20:28:50.418 Ash'ley gains Gore.

20:28:50.584 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:28:53.966 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:55.561 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:57.164 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:58.761 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:00.270 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:00.487 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:29:01.861 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:02.470 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:29:03.371 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:04.921 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:06.804 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:06.806 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:07.893 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:08.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:10.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:11.278 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:12.845 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:14.513 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:15.945 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:17.380 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:19.227 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:20.608 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:22.539 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:22.627 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:29:26.044 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:27.634 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:29.153 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:30.717 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:32.301 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:33.790 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:34.339 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:29:35.286 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:36.915 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:38.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:39.997 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:39.998 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:41.079 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:42.169 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:43.506 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:44.466 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:46.057 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:47.551 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:49.154 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:50.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:52.177 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:53.684 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:55.492 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:55.614 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:29:59.011 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:30:00.623 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:02.192 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:04.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:06.752 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:08.381 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:30:09.886 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:11.572 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:13.065 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:14.599 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:30:15.355 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:30:15.356 Ash'ley loses Centering.

20:30:15.356 Ash'ley gains Berserk.

20:30:16.285 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:30:16.287 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:17.337 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:18.443 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:19.536 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:20.591 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:30:21.718 Ash'ley activates Frenzy.

20:30:22.442 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:23.227 Ash'ley activates Bloodthirst.

20:30:23.796 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:24.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:26.452 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:30:28.050 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:29.609 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:31.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:32.948 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:30:33.035 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:30:36.596 Ash'ley activates Force scream..

20:30:41.992 Ash'ley leaves combat.

--To use rupture or not. Old school wisdom from the MMO-Mechanics days says it is damage neutral, basically a massacre and an assault averaged in one move. It complicates rotation and threatens to cause blood frenzy to run out before force scream hits. But currently some marauders swear by it, and several of the top carnage marauders on Torparse's TFB HM database use it.

My opinion is yes, but not strictly to the timer, and between Gore windows rather than before.

It is a DPS gain with Massacre buff active, but not by a great amount. The greatest value is internal damage due to its stability.

It is NOT worth sacrificing Blood Frenzy for Rupture.

One thing I do like about it for dummy derping, which is borderline irrelevant in any real content, is that it does make accumulating Fury simpler as it is straight-up 2 Rage rather than need-3-and-refund-1. If incidental damage provides Fury through Defensive Forms, it's kind of a moot point.

--Gore+Massacrex2+Force Scream vs Gore+Massacrex3+Force Scream. If the marauder has three or more charges of Berserk left, it is possibly to fit a third massacre into the Gore armor penetration window. However, if timing is not perfect, Gore fades before Force Scream is activated, causing a net damage loss.

Gore + Force Scream + 3x Massacre (Scream first). Honestly, if the 3rd misses the window, it's not ideal, but the DPS gain of getting 3 Force Screams in per 2 Gore cycles is a net positive. Even without Gore, BF'd Scream will hit for nigh on 4k, which is much more consistently good DPR than Massacre or Rupture.

To execute this, however, Scream must be used first in the Gore window (for Berserk + Massacre only) and then IMMEDIATELY upon CD. Scream will come off CD just before Ravage finishes channeling during the next Gore CD, without delaying Gore.

There is noteworthy ability delay after Scream, so the Gore>Scream pair has to be almost instant to get all 3 Massacres in. I have probably ~70% success rate using a keyboard bind for Gore (E) and G600 mouse bind for Scream/Massacre (so not trying to hit 2 binds with 1 hand).

--Gore+Massacrex4 vs. Gore+Massacrex2 or 3+Force Scream. One of the stronger dummy parses shows the marauder using Gore+Massacrex4 when Gore is up and Ravage is on cooldown

Force Scream hits harder than Massacre unless you get a double Ataru proc and all (or nearly all) hits crit.

Nearly 100% chance of big damage on Scream vs. about 3-5% chance (if that) of bigger damage on Massacre. Regardless of which might, under ideal conditions, provide the biggest dummy number, the better choice is obvious.

Following is the dummy parse of Ash'ley, who is actually a sentinel. He/she scores 2189 dps against the Ziost Shadow MK-5 operations dummy, but builds up a full bar of rage before starting the timer, and uses a second bloodthirst before exiting combat, which pads the score a bit.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/63697/time/1354566296/1354566637

 

I notice Ash'ley uses Rupture in rotation, but never near the start of Gore. He/she also uses Gore-Massacrex4 instead of Gore-Massacrex2 or 3+Force Scream. Here's the parse with the junk edited out and sentinel terminology translated to marauder:

 

20:21:01.601 Ash'ley gains Rakata Might Stim.

20:21:01.602 Ash'ley gains Force Might.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Force Valor.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Lucky Shots.

20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Fortification.

20:21:01.606 Ash'ley gains Safe Login Immunity.

20:21:01.636 Ash'ley gains Ataru Form.

20:21:01.637 Ash'ley gains Sprint.

20:21:10.933 Ash'ley loses Safe Login Immunity.

20:23:32.109 Ash'ley enters combat.

20:23:32.145 Ash'ley activates Force Leap.

20:23:33.931 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:35.304 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:23:36.888 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:38.493 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:39.995 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:41.495 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:43.016 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:44.656 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:46.204 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:47.752 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:49.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:23:52.412 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:23:54.011 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:23:56.323 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:36.520 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:38.217 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:39.889 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:41.499 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:24:43.199 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:24:50.315 Ash'ley leaves combat.

 

 

20:24:54.157 Ash'ley enters combat.

20:24:54.190 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:24:55.183 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:24:55.592 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal.

20:24:55.672 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:24:55.771 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:24:59.242 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:01.004 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:02.663 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:04.245 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:05.748 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:07.252 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:08.766 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:09.164 Ash'ley activates Frenzy.

20:25:09.474 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:25:10.364 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:11.871 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:13.478 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:13.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:14.585 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:15.677 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:16.769 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:25:17.874 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:19.455 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:21.061 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:22.637 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:24.331 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:25.743 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:27.295 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:28.970 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:29.182 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:25:32.673 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:34.382 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:35.868 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:37.468 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:38.967 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:40.466 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:41.076 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:25:41.984 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:43.529 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:25:45.046 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:45.048 Ash'ley gains Massacre.

20:25:46.653 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:25:46.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:47.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:48.746 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:49.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:50.864 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:25:52.490 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:25:54.096 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:55.721 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:25:57.361 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:25:58.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:00.461 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:02.096 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:02.173 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:26:05.685 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:07.295 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:08.794 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:10.288 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:11.789 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:13.293 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:13.788 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:26:14.887 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:16.409 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:17.919 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:19.425 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:19.509 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:20.645 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:21.795 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:22.898 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:23.902 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:25.518 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:27.108 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:28.618 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:30.111 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:31.680 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:33.189 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:34.794 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:34.869 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:26:38.376 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:39.884 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:41.488 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:42.986 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:44.591 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:26:46.079 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:46.594 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:26:47.772 Ash'ley activates Assault..

20:26:49.355 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:26:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:52.403 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:26:52.537 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:53.676 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:54.642 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:55.657 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:26:56.760 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:26:58.358 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:26:59.388 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:26:59.877 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:01.469 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:02.964 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:04.477 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:05.966 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:07.497 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:08.986 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:10.579 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:10.727 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:27:14.221 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:15.721 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:17.362 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:18.980 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:20.523 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:22.168 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:22.774 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:27:23.671 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:25.327 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:27.168 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:27.170 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:28.249 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:29.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:30.453 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:31.557 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:33.155 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:34.659 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:36.165 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:37.667 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:39.166 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:40.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:42.823 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:27:42.956 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:27:46.293 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:27:48.091 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:27:50.793 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:52.407 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:27:53.920 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:27:55.497 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:56.192 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:27:57.093 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:27:58.590 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:00.221 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:01.622 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:01.624 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:02.705 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:28:03.821 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:04.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:06.017 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:07.627 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:09.198 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:10.707 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:12.201 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:13.791 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:15.285 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:17.035 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal.

20:28:17.135 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:17.222 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:28:20.622 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:22.228 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:23.725 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:25.349 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:26.907 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:28.465 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:29.066 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:28:30.067 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:31.714 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:33.222 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:34.883 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:34.885 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:35.978 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:37.033 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:38.213 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:39.181 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:40.787 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:42.354 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:43.894 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:28:45.638 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:47.279 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:48.882 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:28:50.417 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:28:50.417 Ash'ley spends 1 .

20:28:50.418 Ash'ley gains Gore.

20:28:50.584 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:28:53.966 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:28:55.561 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:28:57.164 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:28:58.761 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:00.270 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:00.487 Ash'ley activates Power Boost.

20:29:01.861 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:02.470 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:29:03.371 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:04.921 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:06.804 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:06.806 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:07.893 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:08.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:10.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:11.278 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:12.845 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:14.513 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:15.945 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:17.380 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:19.227 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:20.608 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:22.539 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:22.627 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:29:26.044 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:27.634 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:29.153 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:30.717 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:32.301 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:33.790 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:34.339 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:29:35.286 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:36.915 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:38.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:39.997 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:39.998 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:41.079 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:42.169 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:43.506 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:44.466 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:29:46.057 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:29:47.551 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:49.154 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:29:50.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:52.177 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:29:53.684 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:29:55.492 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:29:55.614 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:29:59.011 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:30:00.623 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:02.192 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:04.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:06.752 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:08.381 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:30:09.886 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:11.572 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:13.065 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:14.599 Ash'ley activates Massacre..

20:30:15.355 Ash'ley activates Berserk.

20:30:15.356 Ash'ley loses Centering.

20:30:15.356 Ash'ley gains Berserk.

20:30:16.285 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:30:16.287 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:17.337 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:18.443 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:19.536 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:20.591 Ash'ley activates Force scream.

20:30:21.718 Ash'ley activates Frenzy.

20:30:22.442 Ash'ley activates Assault.

20:30:23.227 Ash'ley activates Bloodthirst.

20:30:23.796 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:24.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:26.452 Ash'ley activates Rupture.

20:30:28.050 Ash'ley activates Battering assault.

20:30:29.609 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:31.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre.

20:30:32.948 Ash'ley activates Gore.

20:30:33.035 Ash'ley activates Ravage.

20:30:36.596 Ash'ley activates Force scream..

20:30:41.992 Ash'ley leaves combat.

Ashley also edited the out of combat. Tonight when I get home, I will get a good parse, and upload it.

I think by the same logic as Force Scream preceding Massacres in the Gore/Massacre/FS phase, it would precede Ravage in the Gore/Ravage/FS phase, but it's always been Gore-Ravage-FS because people don't want to risk losing the last tick of Ravage. Your odds of hitting it are better with FS last, but you obviously have a lot less to lose by putting FS first. I'm never able to hit it myself, but I don't keybind.

I've been sifting through the Ops logs of the ranking carnage marauders at Torparse. The names that recur highly and the most often are Steadfast, Vexo, Ash'ley and Furis. I've only found dummy parses for Vexo and Ash'ley.

--Steadfast: overall seems to do the best, unfortunately there is no dummy parse for him to see his technique, but he does go for Gore-Massacrex3-FS in his Writhing Horror parse, which is of course the easiest boss, but doesn't look like he goes for it in the others. Looks like he switch-hits as annihilation for the trio, which is pretty impressive. He doesn't use Rupture at all.

--Ash'ley: has rupture/cauterize in some fights but not in others. Also sometimes does 4 or 5 massacres after Gore instead of Force Scream. What's really puzzling is using force crush/exhaustion regularly and not using precision slash/gore at all in the Trio HM...how does someone make the leaderboard without gore???

--Vexo: he'scommenting here, so I'll let him discuss his own style...

--Furis: uses Rupture. When Ravage is down, he uses gore, then force scream, but beyond that doesn't really seem to have much of a pattern. He may not have a regular a rotation/hierarchy as the other three and is a little lower on the boards.

At any rate, it would be interesting to get dummy parses or hear from these people, if anyone knows them...

 

--Ash'ley: has rupture/cauterize in some fights but not in others. Also sometimes does 4 or 5 massacres after Gore instead of Force Scream. What's really puzzling is using force crush/exhaustion regularly and not using precision slash/gore at all in the Trio HM...how does someone make the leaderboard without gore???

 

Field respec ftw... looks to me like he is respeccing to rage for encounters with multiple bosses. Infact it looks like the top 2 or so warriors/knights are playing rage for that boss so a lot of that dmg is useless since the other bosses heal themselves.. Def looks fun to pad numbers though but potentially could annoy the tank also though kinda OT for this thread since well.. they arent carnage

Field respec ftw... looks to me like he is respeccing to rage for encounters with multiple bosses. Infact it looks like the top 2 or so warriors/knights are playing rage for that boss so a lot of that dmg is useless since the other bosses heal themselves.. Def looks fun to pad numbers though Potentially could annoy the tank though...

Hi,

yeah, I am kinda messing around with parse numbers, because I play focus/rage spec on that trio (we have more than enough dps so I am just having sweeping fun )

Though I play combat/carnage the most, I respec often according to my current mood. And I am also trying to get high dps parse on the first TFB boss. I always have like 2,2k but then I die on the last hit because some stupid larva explodes near me.

Anyway, for my combat/carnage spec ...

I use cauterize/rupture mostly on CD and outside of precision slash/gore window. It's low cost, ok dmg skill. Also I use it when I have just 2 focus left and I am a second away from zealus strike/battering assault - you can't use blade rush/massacre, slash/assault is a dps loss and bladestorm/forcescream is usually on CD.

Also I use bladestorm/forcescream only during precision slash/gore windows (maybe room for an improvment here ).

The thing with precision slash/gore + bladestorm/forcescream + master strike/ravage is, it is too risky compared to precision slash/gore + master strike/ravage + bladestorm/forcescream.

If you use math it's something like this ... precision/gore + bladestorm/forcescream = 1,5 sec GCD, master strike/ravage after that is another 3 second channel, last hit is around 4,5 sec mark (now you probably missed the third hit during armor penetration window which hurts).

precision/gore + master strike/ravage = 3 sec, bladestorm/forcescream when the third strike hits = 4,5 sec mark. In both cases you can sneak one more skill in there if you are quick and lucky enough, but in the second case you hit the whole MS/ravage on mostly 100%.

Another thing ... 2, 3 or 4 bladerushes/masacres with bladestorm/forcescream during precision slash/gore. I recommend to use 3 (of course, you need zen for this). It's perfectly safe. If you can't get 3 in there on 100%, don't try 4. Your timing must be absolutly perfect for 4 and small ability delay will cause you to miss bladestorm/forcescream. I use 4 only on target dummy, during raid I use just 3. I notice some sentinels use precision/gore + bladestorm/forcescream + bladerush/massacre + something, this is imho completly wrong . Also you need to pay attention to your focus bar. If you run out of focus in the middle of your combo, you will suffer )

Also I noticed a little bug with zen. The last zened bladerush/massacre has normal 1,5sec GCD instead the 1 sec one. Also it's not exactly 1 sec but more like 1,1 even with 40 ms client-server delay.

And one last advice ... don't use strike/assault too much. Create hardpoints in your rotation (like precision/gore + MS/ravage + BS/FS and precision/gore + zen + 3x BR/massacre + BS/FS), calculate how much focus you need for it and don't overfocus. Ideally you should have zero or one focus at the end of your hardpoint followed by zealus strike/battering assault and you are back in the game using fillers until your precision slash/gore comes out of CD so you can make hardpoint combo again.

Ash

That's terrific advice, I've never heard anybody even mention that four massacres is possible, and seems like a very rational grounding for using rupture. I suspect this again has to do with keybinding, Ash'ley and/or Vexo, can you tell how you arrange your keybinds?

It is, but it's virtually impossible to execute due to server latency if you still want to squeeze a Scream in at the end. Doable with a very good connection on the dummy, not worth attempting in an actual Op.

Ash's advice about not over-resourcing is excellent as well, but can be somewhat fight-dependent. Depending on how much stray damage there is in any given fight, you might have a scenario very similar to an Ops dummy, or you might have a significant over-abundance of resource and significantly reduce the amount of filler required. Luckily, it's much easier to spend more Rage than you'd planned to, rather than not having enough.

The only thing that IS a good idea is using Battering Assault to the CD so long as you don't have >6 rage already and it will not intersect with a Gore window. It does not occupy a constant position in time between Gore windows, so rather than plan a horribly complex rotation around it, or let it sit up off CD, it's best to use it for as much Rage generation as possible, even if it leads to some overage, because it drastically reduces the need for filler.

Also I use bladestorm/forcescream only during precision slash/gore windows (maybe room for an improvment here ).

It should be a small but noticeable increase in DPS to Gore > Scream > 3x Massacre > burn Berserk Charges/BA/etc. > pop Scream immediately on CD.

Scream should still easily hit for 3k+ (and have the chance of proc'ing an Ataru strike) even outside of Gore, so long as you have Blood Frenzy up. If Blood Frenzy isn't available when Scream comes off CD, the 3rd Scream should be skipped, because Massacre or Rupture is better DPR if Scream isn't a guaranteed crit.

Scream cannot be delayed even 1 GCD to re-up Blood Frenzy without delaying the next Gore window, and there isn't a sizable enough DPS gain in using 3 instead of 2 to justify delaying Gore ever.

That's terrific advice, I've never heard anybody even mention that four massacres is possible, and seems like a very rational grounding for using rupture. I suspect this again has to do with keybinding, Ash'ley and/or Vexo, can you tell how you arrange your keybinds?

I found this screen I uploaded some time ago but my keybinds haven't changed since then. I use razer naga mouse and + to ž is actually 1 to 6 on nonnumeric keyboard.

http://i47.tinypic.com/34fodcl.png

If you don't recognize the icons ...

+ assault, ě bladerush, š force charge, č smash, ř forcescream

F1 battering assault, F2 gore, F3 cyclone slash/dunno what it is in marauder's tongue , 2 rupture, F5 CC for droids

Q ravage, R vicious throw, E interupt, F that healing debuff throw

on numeric keayboard are mainly defensive cooldowns and support stuff

also I don't use any modifiers

It is, but it's virtually impossible to execute due to server latency if you still want to squeeze a Scream in at the end. Doable with a very good connection on the dummy, not worth attempting in an actual Op.

You can do it in fights where boss doesn't moving around much, like the first and the last TFB boss but it is not really necessary. Also force scream is like 3 to 4 times faster than bladestorm so marauders have easier time with that.

Ash's advice about not over-resourcing is excellent as well, but can be somewhat fight-dependent. Depending on how much stray damage there is in any given fight, you might have a scenario very similar to an Ops dummy, or you might have a significant over-abundance of resource and significantly reduce the amount of filler required. Luckily, it's much easier to spend more Rage than you'd planned to, rather than not having enough.

I was mostly talking about dummy fight, but not to overfocus is important in raids as well. It's like starcraft, there is absolutly no reason to sit on too many resources. Yes, you can spend them quickly but having them in the first place means you overslashed/overassaulted at some point. There are fights where you will regulary use force leap/charge which helps you with focus gen. But that doesn't justify having too much focus, you can just use one bladerush/massacre instead of slash/assault.

Even in boss fights I look on my resource bar about 4 seconds before precision slash/gore comes off CD and decide if I need more or less focus so when it does come off CD I have minimum focus required for precision/gore window (+- I am not as strict with my rotation as it sounds, but rather + than - of course).

I've not yet run any parses. But watching closely am noticing that actually beserk +gore+vicious slash x3 can hit very large. (zen+precision+ slash x3)

Alternatively, berserk + gore + massacre x1, slash x2, scream.

(zen + precision + rush x1, slash x2, storm)

I notice that although it's hard to tell, the slash can hit for 3-4k plus an Ataru strike.

Has anyone parsed this or tried it?

I've not yet run any parses. But watching closely am noticing that actually beserk +gore+vicious slash x3 can hit very large. (zen+precision+ slash x3)

 

Alternatively, berserk + gore + massacre x1, slash x2, scream.

(zen + precision + rush x1, slash x2, storm)

I notice that although it's hard to tell, the slash can hit for 3-4k plus an Ataru strike.

 

Has anyone parsed this or tried it?

Slash/Vicious Slash is a statistical DPS loss, and shouldn't even be on your hotbar once you have Massacre.

This was covered well in another thread, but it basically boils down to 2 things:

-The forced Ataru proc covers damage difference between Vicious Slash and Massacre.

-Massacre can proc a 2nd Ataru strike at the normal (50% due to buff) rate, which makes the "but Vicious Slash can proc Ataru" argument moot.

You have to compare Massacre+Ataru hit to Vicious Slash with no Ataru proc, or Massacre+2x Ataru hits to Vicious Slash with Ataru proc. Either way, Massacre wins.

It is, but it's virtually impossible to execute due to server latency if you still want to squeeze a Scream in at the end. Doable with a very good connection on the dummy, not worth attempting in an actual Op.

I recommend investing in a decent keyboard that supports macros.... you can make one to press both gore and ravage within a nanosecond of each other.

I recommend investing in a decent keyboard that supports macros.... you can make one to press both gore and ravage within a nanosecond of each other.

I have a G600 mouse which supports macros. Unfortunately, either the game, my PC, or something is very finnicky when it comes to actually having them execute properly.

I have no trouble whatsoever getting Ravage > Scream into a Gore window, I was referring only to Gore > 4x Massacre > Scream (before Gore wears). Very difficult due to latency, no matter how good your reaction times or small motor control are.

i have a question for al those high parsing marauders.

Why do you all have almost 80% surge? I why not 108% acc. Is that to much or should stack surge because it is better in carnage?

i have a question for al those high parsing marauders.

 

Why do you all have almost 80% surge? I why not 108% acc. Is that to much or should stack surge because it is better in carnage?

Accuracy caps at 100%, and only benefits the OH after that 100%.

Surge benefits every attack, technically the bis for carnage is 102% accuracy 180 accuracy, (don't believe me; feel free to check out some sims.)

Ok tnx for the answer. But what about annihalition? Do you guys think they can pull out the same numbers or does carnage provide better dps?

And what stats should you have in anni?

I know that this is a carnage topic but i want to break the 2k barrier and i am used to play anni but also like carnage.

Ooh and about the relic : Internal for anni and elemental for carnage?

Ok tnx for the answer. But what about annihalition? Do you guys think they can pull out the same numbers or does carnage provide better dps?

 

And what stats should you have in anni?

 

I know that this is a carnage topic but i want to break the 2k barrier and i am used to play anni but also like carnage.

 

Ooh and about the relic : Internal for anni and elemental for carnage?

Annihilation stats should be 30-35% melee crit buffed, 100% melee accuracy, whatever you have left into surge and power.

Relics should be as follow

Elemental for Anni, and Energy for Carnage. If you're lazy and don't want to do that many dailies, get an elemental and use for both specs.

Carnage is less luck based than Annihilation and will more consistently parse over 2k. I have parsed over 2k in annihilation, and my highest parses have been in annihilation with insane proc chances and crit chances.

Carnage is very reliable though, and once you learn it; very easy to maintain during raid.

Ok thanks and the best stats for carnage then?

102% acc

Around 30% crit?

And around 77% surge?

Ok thanks and the best stats for carnage then?

 

102% acc

 

Around 30% crit?

 

And around 77% surge?

It'll be 78 something percent with 102% acc.

Annihilation stats should be 30-35% melee crit buffed, 100% melee accuracy, whatever you have left into surge and power.

 

Relics should be as follow

 

Elemental for Anni, and Energy for Carnage. If you're lazy and don't want to do that many dailies, get an elemental and use for both specs.

 

Carnage is less luck based than Annihilation and will more consistently parse over 2k. I have parsed over 2k in annihilation, and my highest parses have been in annihilation with insane proc chances and crit chances.

Carnage is very reliable though, and once you learn it; very easy to maintain during raid.

Don't you mean internal relic for Anni or should it really be elemental?