Dude !! You're something else (in a good sense of the word)…

 

Got a good chuckle when I read this !!

 

I wrote a long post explaining this, then the internet cut out and I had to reload. I'm too tired to write the whole thing again, so let me summarize: Poor design? Yes. Bug? No.

 

First, tank and heal sets are classed as general sets, not discipline-specific sets, so it's perfectly normal to get them a lot (less than Amplified champion, but still a lot).

 

Second, I don't think that sets have an equal chance to drop. I'd say normally it's something like this:

 

60% all classes in the game

25% general sets for main classes (smuggler, knight, trooper, etc.)

15% general sets for advanced class (all general gunslinger and scoundrel sets for example)

5% discipline specific sets

 

Then, when you run the run content, whether it's DXUN or ops bosses, it probably gives you, as said, an INCREASED chance, not a guaranteed chance, and not even close I suspect. My experience comes from running 6 toons of different classes and specs through conquest and related activities every week since 6.0 dropped. Maybe it looks like this:

 

40% all classes

25% main classes

25% advanced classes

10% discipline specific

 

In any chance, it's not a bug (no matter how much some players insist). It's been working as intended ever since 6.0 released. It's stupid and it sucks, of course.

 

TLDR - Buy gathering storm off the vendor. Forget about ever getting DXUN drops unless they're on sale at Kai Zykken.

With the way RNG works in this game, I would hope no one would ever rely on something dropping and buy everything needed from the vendors. There's a number of ways to gather Tech Frags and getting an entire 6-pc set shouldn't take long, along with the 7th being the Amp piece.

I do agree for the most part, but unless you're able to provide definitive proof from someone within the company that it's not a bug, it's nothing more than theorizing. Odds are it is indeed intended, but it could very well be a carryover from the PTS, when they altered the loot disciplines so Tank pieces weren't dropping for every spec, including DPS and Healers, which was the case. Either way you slice it though, a DPS spec, with the discipline set accordingly, shouldn't be getting healer gear on a regular basis, which is currently the norm. A good example: on the Trooper healers I run, they almost always get healer gear, rarely does a dps gear pc drop. That should be the norm for all specs/classes.

With the amount of bugs that are in this game, especially with the Onslaught release, it's a coin flip whether it is indeed intended or lazy development, odds are, it's the latter.

With the way RNG works in this game, I would hope no one would ever rely on something dropping and buy everything needed from the vendors. There's a number of ways to gather Tech Frags and getting an entire 6-pc set shouldn't take long, along with the 7th being the Amp piece.

 

I do agree for the most part, but unless you're able to provide definitive proof from someone within the company that it's not a bug, it's nothing more than theorizing. Odds are it is indeed intended, but it could very well be a carryover from the PTS, when they altered the loot disciplines so Tank pieces weren't dropping for every spec, including DPS and Healers, which was the case. Either way you slice it though, a DPS spec, with the discipline set accordingly, shouldn't be getting healer gear on a regular basis, which is currently the norm. A good example: on the Trooper healers I run, they almost always get healer gear, rarely does a dps gear pc drop. That should be the norm for all specs/classes.

 

With the amount of bugs that are in this game, especially with the Onslaught release, it's a coin flip whether it is indeed intended or lazy development, odds are, it's the latter.

You may be right, but I base my conclusions off the fact that tank and healer gear is specifically marked on the vendor as General Sorc/Sage Set Gear or Tactical, etc.

If the devs intended for it to not drop for your selected spec, these pieces would be marked as Corruption Sorc Exclusive Set Gear or Tactical.

Choosing your spec does little honestly, even for Maras and Snipers. You still get mostly general sets and general tacticals. I think I've gotten a total of 4 dps set drops for my dot-spec gunslinger, and I can't even remember if they're for all slingers or just for that spec. (The worst part is I had already bought them from the vendor, grrr). Most of the time, I get general sets and even some that are obviously tailored more to scoundrels (because of the abilities they buff), but they're marked as General Sets so they drop for slingers too.

With the amount of bugs that are in this game, especially with the Onslaught release, it's a coin flip whether it is indeed intended or lazy development, odds are, it's the latter.

I love your orange text by the way. It's so relaxing.

I love your orange text by the way. It's so relaxing.

Haha.. It's mostly because it's easier to find my posts. It's not that I don't want to read everyone's posts, I just don't always have time and why not have a little bit of fun on the forums.

Regarding the post before that, they really should just get rid of the loot discipline option altogether, it does very little, other than separating the Tank pieces from the DPS and Heal specs.

Running 11 sorcs & 6 sages through conquest every week along with FP weeklies & ops with loot set for lightning/telekinetics and so far I've gotten 1 piece of Gathering Storm and 1 piece of Endless Offensive, both from renown boxes. Nothing beyond healing & generic set pieces from any other drops or types of crates.

 

Granted, I had my Gathering Storm set done and mod'ed within the second week of 6.0...all pieces from the vendor. And I'm 5/7 Endless Offensive, and have my heal set done.

 

But it's the principle of the thing. It's bloody annoying getting a constant stream of only sorc/sage specific gear being that which I haven't selected for, and generic set pieces.

 

The same applies to my mercs. Heal specific gear and generic set pieces, never any dps specific gear.

 

If role selection isn't working then turn the damn thing off and open it up to all roles.

Not getting the gathering storm set as a drop isn’t the bug. It’s getting specific sets that cannot actually be used on the other specs because they do not have those spec/class abilities.

ie, using Sorc as an example, only healing spec has inervate and that set drops for dps.

ie, merc’s getting tanking spec’d gear, tactical’s and generator off hands from drops (not vendor as the patch says)

ie, dps sins getting tanking tactical’s and preservers tank set on deception. Even my Merc got two pieces of preservers tank gear.

It’s not the generic sets or even the “class sets” that are the problem. It’s the spec specific sets that drop for the completely wrong spec. Healing sets and tacs for dps and tank sets and tacs for dps. Not to mention incorrect off hands for classes who can’t even use them.

It’s all in this thread that Musco himself started : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=972158

As Trixxie said above, there are situations where you get loot that absolutely violates the loot rules listed in Eric's description. In the post she linked, Eric said:

• Set Bonuses and Tacticals – These are quite a bit more simple than stats as these should always drop for your current character and should always drop items usable in that spec. Keep in mind that usable by your spec means base class and general sets also.
  

 

<snip referencing world drops, which he specifically says *twice* are not boss-NPCs> Every other place you get loot; boss kills, <snip of other not-world-drops> will all always drop loot specifically for you.

 

-eric

My Deception Assassin didn't get around to Ilum until she was 75. I ran the FPs at the end of the storyline, and the crate from killing Malgus, solo, in story mode, gave her the "Two Time Trouble" tactical. It modifies the proc chance on a Hatred-only effect. Her loot spec has only ever been set to Deception, not to "current spec" and she has only ever *been* Deception. Two Time Trouble was listed in the patch notes for 6.0 as a Hatred Tactical. Since this was a boss kill, it should, by the above, have dropped something she could use *in her spec* or in her selected loot spec, if it were different.

A couple days ago, I ran Red Reaper with her, again solo. The last boss dropped the "Ward of the Continuum" tactical, which modifies a Darkness-only ability. Even if the "tank versus non-tank" loot rule were over-riding the rest of the loot rules in the case of the first tactical dropping, she should never have received the second one.

One of two things are happening: either the loot rules are filtered in the wrong order or somehow otherwise not applying properly when loot is generated for your character, or the second half of Eric's description that boss kills do not generate world drops and they somehow are while my character ALSO has the strangest luck to get two Assassin (but one each of not-her-spec) tacticals out of the realm of *every* possible level-75 drop.

Edited to add: I over-snipped the world drop portion of Eric's explanation. He also said:

(there is a very small chance that bosses can drop a world drop as an extra drop).

-eric

I mentioned specifically that she was solo both times because if these were technically world drops from a boss kill, I have no way of knowing that because there was no one else with me to generate a need/greed roll for them. What are the odds that a character I don't play terrible often receives, twice, at a "very small chance," an item she can't use, but is for a different spec of her advanced class rather at least one of them being "more" wrong like an assault cannon, or being a "general" item?

Not getting the gathering storm set as a drop isn’t the bug. It’s getting specific sets that cannot actually be used on the other specs because they do not have those spec/class abilities.

 

ie, using Sorc as an example, only healing spec has inervate and that set drops for dps.

ie, merc’s getting tanking spec’d gear, tactical’s and generator off hands from drops (not vendor as the patch says)

ie, dps sins getting tanking tactical’s and preservers tank set on deception. Even my Merc got two pieces of preservers tank gear.

 

It’s not the generic sets or even the “class sets” that are the problem. It’s the spec specific sets that drop for the completely wrong spec. Healing sets and tacs for dps and tank sets and tacs for dps. Not to mention incorrect off hands for classes who can’t even use them.

 

It’s all in this thread that Musco himself started : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=972158

The exact post you quote states it's not a bug.

"These are quite a bit more simple than stats as these should always drop for your current character and should always drop items usable in that spec. Keep in mind that usable by your spec means base class and general sets also. Ex: You are a madness sorc, it is intended that the system could drop an Inquisitor set for you (even if that specific set may seem more useful for a healer, it is a base class set usable by all Inquisitors)"

I know it's not what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it's not intended.

Poor design? Yes, terrible. Not a bug.

The devs have classed heal sets as inquisitor sets, and there are two sets, meaning that there's a good chance you're going to get a lot more healer gear, and other inquistor sets, and other general sets, etc.

They should have classed heal sets as specific for healer disciplines and tank sets as specific for tank disciplines, BUT THEY CHOSE NOT TO. I think you and I both know why they chose to do it that way. In fact, even the loot toggle was a last minute addition to try and appease players. The system was always designed to be grindy and terrible. Not a bug, though.

It’s not the generic sets or even the “class sets” that are the problem. It’s the spec specific sets that drop for the completely wrong spec. Healing sets and tacs for dps and tank sets and tacs for dps.

The gear drops are not buggy - they are working as intended. If the sets you get from conquest are for healers only - sry thats not a bug. It´s stated in the patch notes where specific gear sets drop.

Maybe it´s bad design but it´s not a bug.

So please - stop complaining! Look at the patch notes and look where your set drops!

I too had to farm tech fragments or wait for Kai to sell it to get certain sets. Buts that's how it is.

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/game-update-6.1

 

Nothing about fixing the gear bug that drops the wrong specific gear sets for your class spec as well as loot toggle bug.

True, however on the plus side there are lots of bug fixes in the 6.1 patch notes, hopefully that will continue moving forward (including the loot discipline / class spec one... which makes the loot toggle fairly defunct)

The exact post you quote states it's not a bug.

 

"These are quite a bit more simple than stats as these should always drop for your current character and should always drop items usable in that spec. Keep in mind that usable by your spec means base class and general sets also. Ex: You are a madness sorc, it is intended that the system could drop an Inquisitor set for you (even if that specific set may seem more useful for a healer, it is a base class set usable by all Inquisitors)"

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it's not intended.

 

Poor design? Yes, terrible. Not a bug.

 

The devs have classed heal sets as inquisitor sets, and there are two sets, meaning that there's a good chance you're going to get a lot more healer gear, and other inquistor sets, and other general sets, etc.

 

They should have classed heal sets as specific for healer disciplines and tank sets as specific for tank disciplines, BUT THEY CHOSE NOT TO. I think you and I both know why they chose to do it that way. In fact, even the loot toggle was a last minute addition to try and appease players. The system was always designed to be grindy and terrible. Not a bug, though.

I guess reading is hard

 

If you are receiving an off-spec item based on the information above, that is likely a bug. With that in mind, here is the information I need to help the team investigate the issue:

 

-eric

He specifically states that if what I described was happening, then it is a bug.

I guess you missed the part about Mercs getting preservers tank gear or off hand generators? How about Maras getting tanking tactical’s?

True, however on the plus side there are lots of bug fixes in the 6.1 patch notes, hopefully that will continue moving forward (including the loot discipline / class spec one... which makes the loot toggle fairly defunct)

Nothing mentioned this bug or many other bugs in the patch notes. It’s why I started this thread to find out if the notes were incomplete or if these bugs would be fixed in 6.1.

The gear drops are not buggy - they are working as intended. If the sets you get from conquest are for healers only - sry thats not a bug. It´s stated in the patch notes where specific gear sets drop.

Maybe it´s bad design but it´s not a bug.

 

So please - stop complaining! Look at the patch notes and look where your set drops!

I too had to farm tech fragments or wait for Kai to sell it to get certain sets. Buts that's how it is.

Please don’t be lazy. Go and read through the whole thread. There is plenty of actual feed back from my self and many others that show it’s not just what you are stating. Don’t even try misrepresenting the issue at hand if you aren’t even going to do the leg work to get the facts.

Maybe you should take your own advise and stop your sniping at other people and myself who want these damn bugs fixed. Anyone would think you worked for Bioware and are trying silence us cause you won’t fix the bugs, I mean, I’ve never seen you post on the forums before and all of a sudden you come out of where to white knight a bugged system.

I guess reading is hard

 

 

 

He specifically states that if what I described was happening, then it is a bug.

 

I guess you missed the part about Mercs getting preservers tank gear or off hand generators? How about Maras getting tanking tactical’s?

Lol. The irony of "reading is hard."

What is your reaction to the part I quoted?

Hey folks,

 

• Stats – One thing that may not be clear about stats is that they effectively fall into two buckets, tank and non-tank. Tanks will receive their respective stats (Defense, Absorb, etc). Healers and DPS stats are mostly similar so they are in the same bucket currently.
  
• Set Bonuses and Tacticals – These are quite a bit more simple than stats as these should always drop for your current character and should always drop items usable in that spec. Keep in mind that usable by your spec means base class and general sets also. Ex: You are a madness sorc, It is intended that the system could drop an Inquisitor set for you (even if that specific set may seem more useful for a healer, it is a base class set usable by all Inquisitors)
  

 

-eric

Are you still getting off hand generators for the wrong class? Is that what's you're complaining about?

The gear drops are not buggy - they are working as intended. If the sets you get from conquest are for healers only - sry thats not a bug. It´s stated in the patch notes where specific gear sets drop.

Maybe it´s bad design but it´s not a bug.

 

So please - stop complaining! Look at the patch notes and look where your set drops!

I too had to farm tech fragments or wait for Kai to sell it to get certain sets. Buts that's how it is.

It's absolutely buggy. Although, I've only seen it once and it occurred yesterday. I've got 17 toons all around 100 - 110 renown in full set gear so I've had tons of drops. On my Corruption Sorc, I got Dashing Blademaster Boots (Warrior / Knight Gear). So please explain to me how that is "working as intended".

please Fix Enrage defence for PvP we have a 280-290 k lifepool and average 30 to 50 k crits and it just heals 20 k per tick and when you get a krit it just dont heal at all ! you can legit die trough it ... even if you use it at 40% of your hp

im a long time PvP player and a long time Juggernaut Dps Main (since 7 years) but know the class makes no fun to play at all cause of this issue ( its the same problem like it was at the start of 5.0 they just dont get level synced ) pls fix

What is your reaction to the part I quoted?

Yeah.. Never did get a chance to read that post from Eric, very enlightening. That explains a lot. Doesn't excuse the random drops that some have mentioned in regards to getting gear for different classes, but no one's perfect, hence Eric's post. For the most part, it's certainly working as intended. I'm taking my toys and going home!

Lol. The irony of "reading is hard."

 

What is your reaction to the part I quoted?

 

Are you still getting off hand generators for the wrong class? Is that what's you're complaining about?

So a tanking tactical for a mara, and off hand generator for a Merc or a tanking set (preservers) is not a bug.

I think you and I have a very different defining what a bug is.

So a tanking tactical for a mara, and off hand generator for a Merc or a tanking set (preservers) is not a bug.

 

I think you and I have a very different defining what a bug is.

What was your reaction to the post I quoted?

What tanking tactical?

Preservers is not a tanking-exclusive set by a long shot.

So a tanking tactical for a mara, and off hand generator for a Merc or a tanking set (preservers) is not a bug.

 

I think you and I have a very different defining what a bug is.

So it seems the umbrella is quite large in BW's mind as to what sets should and do drop for the different class specs in the game. It sounds like you guys are all correct.

You (Trixx) see items dropping you think ought not drop for a specific spec, while BW pretends to not know about these dropping, and others are saying it's intended though not efficient or sensible.

It's SWTOR logic, don't fight it.

What was your reaction to the post I quoted?

 

What tanking tactical?

I'm not the person you're asking, but I'll answer anyway. I posted earlier in this thread that my Deception Assassin has received, on separate occasions, a Hatred tactical and a Darkness tactical. Neither of them are just spec-specific based on my opinion, they're spec-specific based on the patch notes. The Hatred tactical was Two Time Trouble. By the 6.0 patch notes:

The following Tacticals have been added to the game at level 75, available for all Hatred Assassins:

Two Time Trouble

Creeping Terror has a 100% chance to tick an additional time when you deal damage with Assassinate and a 50% chance to tick an additional time when you deal damage with a melee attack.

Source: Increased drop chance from defeating Flashpoint bosses.

The second was Ward of the Continuum:

The following Tacticals have been added to the game at level 75, available for all Darkness Assassins:

 

Ward of the Continuum

Dark Ward gains 5 additional stacks and Phantom Stride resets its cooldown.

Source: Increased drop chance from defeating Flashpoint bosses.

The Assassin in question has, as I've said, only ever been Deception, and only ever had her loot spec set to Deception, not even just "current spec." I've not done much content with her. She exists mainly for one reason, which is to convince myself to try playing a DPS spec, since I prefer tanks and healers. She leveled to 75 doing things I haven't seen in a while, like the Belsavis bonus series, and I fill in the rest of her weekly conquest with whatever strikes my fancy at the moment. One week, that meant running the Ilum quest arc, including the two flashpoints at the end. The other day, that meant soloing Red Reaper five times. Beyond that, the only FPs she's been in since reaching level 75 was Athiss. The extent of that character's experience with last boss FP drops is eight different sets of loot. On two of those occasions, she received something the patch notes explicitly state can drop for the specs she is not.

As I added to my post in this thread the other day, part of Eric's explanation for the loot system includes

(there is a very small chance that bosses can drop a world drop as an extra drop).

and

This means that it is possible to get items not for your spec, but that only happens from the rarest place those items drop (standard world drops).

So, to answer your question, my reaction is a question of my own. How small is "very small" and how rare is "rarest?" It's not something anyone but the staff can answer definitively. My interpretation of "very small" and "rarest" is a lot closer to "chance to successfully RE the 306 schematics" than it is to 1/4 of the final bosses she's seen. I'd call that something like "not always, but comfortably often." Does my character just have an... inconvenient amount of luck? Very lucky in that she's gotten extra loot twice, unlucky in that neither item was something she could use, and ultimately inconvenient for the staff to hear about and the players to understand, because it looks like a bug and may not be? Is there a way to differentiate "extra" loot from "personal" loot when you're the only one eligible for loot from the boss?

So, to answer your question, my reaction is a question of my own. How small is "very small" and how rare is "rarest?" It's not something anyone but the staff can answer definitively. My interpretation of "very small" and "rarest" is a lot closer to "chance to successfully RE the 306 schematics" than it is to 1/4 of the final bosses she's seen. I'd call that something like "not always, but comfortably often." Does my character just have an... inconvenient amount of luck? Very lucky in that she's gotten extra loot twice, unlucky in that neither item was something she could use, and ultimately inconvenient for the staff to hear about and the players to understand, because it looks like a bug and may not be? Is there a way to differentiate "extra" loot from "personal" loot when you're the only one eligible for loot from the boss?

Even more lucky is the fact that she got a tactical at all from a story mode flashpoint.

Even bosses in veteran flashpoints do not drop tacticals.

When it goes straight into your inventory as loot, I'm guessing that is considered "world boss" loot. It happens sometimes in story mode ops and vet flashpoints, where a player will be awarded a set piece or tactical directly. It's only happened to me on a handful of occassions, and I have always gotten "amplified champion" or another general piece.

When you ran red reaper, what difficulty was it?

Also, has this happened on any of your other characters?

Yeah.. Never did get a chance to read that post from Eric, very enlightening. That explains a lot. Doesn't excuse the random drops that some have mentioned in regards to getting gear for different classes, but no one's perfect, hence Eric's post. For the most part, it's certainly working as intended. I'm taking my toys and going home!

You're fun.

Even more lucky is the fact that she got a tactical at all from a story mode flashpoint.

Agreed, which is what makes sorting it out inconvenient and awkward! Not only was it completely unexpected from that source, it wasn't for her spec, wasn't a general all-classes or all-inquisitors or all-assassins item, and wasn't *entirely* not for her by actually being something like a warrior-only item. And then having another piece of surprise loot later that's also a tactical not for her spec?

When it goes straight into your inventory as loot, I'm guessing that is considered "world boss" loot. It happens sometimes in story mode ops and vet flashpoints, where a player will be awarded a set piece or tactical directly. It's only happened to me on a handful of occassions, and I have always gotten "amplified champion" or another general piece.

 

When you ran red reaper, what difficulty was it?

 

Also, has this happened on any of your other characters?

In all cases of her getting any sort of loot, I've clicked on whatever is there to click on at the end, and the whole pile has plopped into my inventory. Pretty much the same thing as "world drop" drops from elites on different planets and such, click the corpse, loot plops into my inventory. I would expect that if it were an extra world drop during a FP and there were other people in the group, it would open the need/greed window to roll on the item, since "extra" loot would be shared with the group. Solo, I can't see that because it won't have me roll on the item alone (as far as I know.)

Red Reaper was veteran mode all five times. I don't think a story mode exists for it, and I'm not sure I could solo it on master mode. Actually, I need to correct myself about Red Reaper. I took screenshots when it happened (though I didn't add it to Eric's thread because I was waiting to see what the upcoming patch notes would say) and Ward of the Continuum actually dropped in that Athiss run I mentioned as the other FP she'd been in. (I wanted to compare it in vet mode solo vs Red Reaper solo, and also solo vs how Athiss went duoing it on level 26 characters with a friend.) Red Reaper vet went fine, Athiss went fine, but I went back to Red Reaper. You can even see the edge of the Two Time Trouble tactical in her bags, peeping out from under the tooltip because I neglect the poor thing so much I didn't even free up much bag space. She's item rating 281 in that, so it kind of seems like extra-extra luck that she's getting anything fancy at all.

As for my other characters... no, but I don't have an enormous pool of loot opportunities by which to judge loot frequency. I have soloed some story and vet mode FPs a few times on other 75s, and my Merc got the Stimulated Gauntlets from one of them (I think. I didn't screenshot it, because it's a general set piece, so it didn't warrant tracking. There's some chance it came from a source other than an FP, but it's "correct" loot either way.) That's about as exciting as my loot drops have been. The overwhelming majority of my time has been spent leveling alts, because "what do I feel like doing right now?" keeps answering itself with leveling alts making different story decisions. I am, to my shame, pretty much entirely ignoring new content and getting better gear in favor of "there's definitely nothing wrong with making four more shadows and assassins without leveling any of them to 75." *All* of my group FP activity during this expansion has been leveling lowbies with a friend when he's around. (I'm not allergic to running things with other people, I promise! It's just worked out that way.)

This character and others do get completely-not-for-them items occasionally as world drops, but from places where I'd expect world drops, such as Elites while doing Oricon or Makeb story and such. They haven't been anything exciting, though, just green or blue shields or vibroknives and the like, but it's uncommon for those world drops from non-boss mobs to be anything but generic armour. While leveling, I'd expect those drops, except they'd be BoE instead of Binds-to-Legacy. That the mobs continue dropping generic greens seems normal. Even while leveling, I don't really remember seeing a ton of extra loot from FP bosses, so it would really surprise me to have extra loot drop this frequently. It's possible that it's nearly always, for that matter, and it just doesn't stand out in any way because all of the other bosses may have dropped an extra enhancement or belt or something. Confused! That's why I want to know "how small is very small?"

Edit: PS: Don't laugh at the keybinds, they're all very comfy because I use a left-hand keypad instead of the keyboard!

What was your reaction to the post I quoted?

 

What tanking tactical?

 

Preservers is not a tanking-exclusive set by a long shot.

As I’ve said repeatedly in this thread. Go and read the thread created by Bioware to get feed back on what is happening. I really don’t think I need to keep arguing with you about it when there is plenty of documented feed back in that thread by others as well as myself.