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Most powerful Sith Lord ever (essential read)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Most powerful Sith Lord ever (essential read)

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.05.2015 , 07:20 PM | #771
Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post

Does that mean Vader who was 80% of ROTJ Sidious, Yoda and Windu who fought Sidious toe to toe are all stronger or about equally powerful as Vitiate, and are, force-wise, capable of consuming the entire galaxy via ritual if they had sith knowledge? Are they too capable of instantly killing 12 most powerful sith lords(DC members) in a flash even without flipping a finger? (12 DC members were killed the moment they entered Vitiate's domain, one of them forcefully teleported to torture chamber. Vitiate kills 9 DC member in the second purge, too.) And they are much more capable than killing thousands of sith lords on their own, since Vitiate did it before his ascension and rituals to consume their essence?\
Windu is a superior lightsaber combatant to Vitiate, Force wise? Not so much, Vader, Yoda and Sidious are superior to him in the TK department. Force Lighting, obviously only Sidious is above him in that. All of them are superior saber combatants, that's a given though.

If they extensively studied Sith knowledge and knew the mechanics of the ritual and the like?...Yes they would be able to, provided they have the right resources, Rituals don't really need to have the User being all powerful, there are examples of lesser Force Users doing powerful rituals, although can't recall any examples.

Kill them? Yeah, as I recall those Dark Council members don't really have any feats that are impressive, they just died. Sure they were noted as powerful, but in the grand scheme that doesn't mean much when there are other characters who are noted as powerful too, Vader, Yoda/Mace being noted rather as some of the most powerful Jedi/Sith in SW mythos.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
01.05.2015 , 07:28 PM | #772
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
It's a joke.
yea right


Quote: Originally Posted by Highsis View Post
neither side is really successful in persuading the other\, resorting to one-liner mockeries and flamings, and a stalemate. Just look at last few pages and see if there is any decent discussion going on. As it seems to me the thread has run its course
how does any of this translate in your head to the thread having run it's course? shall i also dress up in a suit and have a clean shave while you are at it

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.05.2015 , 07:31 PM | #773
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Last I checked it applies to Vader Period. Vader at max was 80% Sidious at max from what I understand.

But as people have said 20% can be fairly large, HOWEVER, to the question do I think Yoda could have defeated the 12 dark Council Members in a Flash? yes.... Windu? Maybe. Vader, in a flash probably not, but defeated all 12 at the same time, sure its not beyond Vader's capacity.

Has every name that's been uttered here essentially been an incredibly powerful. Yes. I honestly put Bane far below the likes of both Revan AND Vader, as Bane came from a time when the Sith had lost a lot of power. Zannah I thought was more powerful, and while other apprentices may have been weaker, the culmination of Sidious from Bane's rule of 2 and Vader litterally being Sidious "greatest monster" and "greatest Jedi killer of all time" especially when he uses the techniques OF the Jedi to be a Jedi Killer tells you just how strong Vader is. So can Vader defeat 12 council members? I think so.

Could Luke (who is even more powerful then even DE Sidious) absolutely.


Could Vader consume galaxies? with out a ritual, no Neither could Vitiate or any other sith for that matter. With a proper Ritual, maybe, but he has never been one for to much in the ways of Sith magic. But as has been explained before, an Sorcerer is not automatically stronger then a Warrior. Is Vitiate stronger then Vader, EXTREMELY LIKELY. as was said 20% is a fair gap.
It isn't. The 80% came from Lucas who said by Return of the Jedi Vader was about 80% of Sidious. Ergo he was 80% of Sidious at ROTJ. Dark Empire Sidious is stronger than ROTJ Sidious.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
01.05.2015 , 07:38 PM | #774
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
It isn't. The 80% came from Lucas who said by Return of the Jedi Vader was about 80% of Sidious. Ergo he was 80% of Sidious at ROTJ. Dark Empire Sidious is stronger than ROTJ Sidious.
Last I checked, yes it came from Lucas, but he didnt say "RotJ Vader, vs RotJ Emperor" he said "Anakin had the potential to be 200% of what Sidious would become, but in the end with his limbs lost he only became 80% of Palpatine"

While Lucas MAY have MEANT RotJ vs RotJ he also doesnt consider anything else in Star Wars to be cannon any way, so DE Sidious doesnt exist, however Sidious would still be "most powerful sith of all time"

If we take canon as what we know as canon AND Lucas's statement which is talking both characters at their max, then Vader was still 80% DE Emperor.

So no Vader is 80% of Sidious... period. Respect the Vader.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.05.2015 , 07:44 PM | #775
To clear it up...

Quote:
“Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor."

- Taken from Vanityfair, Star Wars: The Last Battle, Page 3 Paragraph 2
So yeah, 80% of Sidious.

Although considering ROTJ is Vader's peak, it is probably just meaning Sidious as ROTJ. DE Sidious is more powerful.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.05.2015 , 07:47 PM | #776
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
To clear it up...



So yeah, 80% of Sidious.

Although considering ROTJ is Vader's peak, it is probably just meaning Sidious as ROTJ. DE Sidious is more powerful.
Not to mention the text is speaking in present form and about "The Last Battle" which it was talking on context of ROTJ.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
01.05.2015 , 07:48 PM | #777
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
To clear it up...



So yeah, 80% of Sidious.

Although considering ROTJ is Vader's peak, it is probably just meaning Sidious as ROTJ. DE Sidious is more powerful.
But how much more powerful, do you really think DE emperor is MASSIVELY more powerful then RotJ Emperor. I never thought so.

I still look at it as 80% sidious Period. It doesnt specify anything, and I always thought Vader would need to be "closer then 80%" to RotJ Palp's to be strong enough to (while exhausted from his son) survive the kind of power Palps could put out.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
01.05.2015 , 07:49 PM | #778
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I think the prophecy suffers from not being fully explained. Balance in the Force wasn't really explained in the movies. They just said he'd bring the Force back into balance.

Though, to be honest, you're looking at it from a numbers perspective. I'm not entirely sure numbers really matter because the Darth Plagueis novel states that the Sith supplanted the Light with the Dark, even though there were more Jedi than there were Sith.

It's all so confusing.
Not so much numbers, but Yoda balanced Palpatine, Kenobi with Vader, the prophets with the knights etc. Relative power in the force was balanced.

But Plageuis and Palpatine unbalanced it with massacring thousands, because the fall of one person supposedly wouldn't affect the force as a whole, which is why Palpatine's death doesn't make sense as balancing the force when the Galaxy is still being suppressed...
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.05.2015 , 07:52 PM | #779
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
But how much more powerful, do you really think DE emperor is MASSIVELY more powerful then RotJ Emperor. I never thought so.

I still look at it as 80% sidious Period. It doesnt specify anything, and I always thought Vader would need to be "closer then 80%" to RotJ Palp's to be strong enough to (while exhausted from his son) survive the kind of power Palps could put out.
By feats? He is, ROTJ Sidious wasn't able to destroy fleets or ravage the surface of planets with Force Wormholes, he was able to do them, but hadn't mastered it. Among other things that he showed, that and quotes do point as DE Sidious > ROTJ Sidious as here..

Quote:
Soon he was ready to strike. Fully healed and in greater control of the Dark Side than ever, he finally acted to end the Mutiny.

Source: Dark Empire Sourcebook
Quote:
"You've grown very strong in the Force since we last met… But then, so have I!"

Source: Dark Empire
Quote:
The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.

Source: Dark Empire Endnotes
Still...regardless, being 80% of ROTJ Sidious is nothing to sneeze at anyway.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.05.2015 , 07:53 PM | #780
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
But how much more powerful, do you really think DE emperor is MASSIVELY more powerful then RotJ Emperor. I never thought so.

I still look at it as 80% sidious Period. It doesnt specify anything, and I always thought Vader would need to be "closer then 80%" to RotJ Palp's to be strong enough to (while exhausted from his son) survive the kind of power Palps could put out.
Regular Sidious never displayed the power to instantly destroy one starship. Let alone blowing away a starfleet.