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This doesn't make sense!

michaelharber's Avatar


michaelharber
01.14.2022 , 08:38 PM | #1
Ok, first and foremost, I am not trying to upset anyone, and I will freely admit that I am not a veteran GSF player. I also will admit to my disability in my left hand, making it way more difficult for me to play games that require a mouse and keyboard. I have set key bindings and basically have a tough time playing any game where dexterity is the key factor. With all of that said, I still can not figure out how (on multiple occasions) I get one shoted by a primary laser from a strike fighter after I (using every different type of gunship, most recently the VX-9 Redeemer, mastered). First I hit the enemy with my ion (or plasma depending on the ship) rail gun, the switched to the slug rail gun, and hit 2 more times before he/she got close enough to shot one time and boom, that is when my copilot tells me that he can't operate in space, or something similar. I have used strike fighters many times, I have mastered a few of them, I still have to keep pumping about a zillion laser blasts int an enemy before he one-shots me. I admit to putting most of my ship's power towards the weapons, but still, one laser shot is all it takes to destroy any of my ships. At first, I assumed everyone else is using mastered ships while I was still upgrading, but then I started mastering ships. I still get blown up as easy as ever. Also, what's the deal with missile lock re acquiring 1 second after a special maneuver? How can another human being continue shooting me while I am actively using every combination of thrusters, turns and weaving in between obstacles? Come on, no human can keep that little red cross-hair n an object moving at vastly varying speeds while zipping around like a fly on fire. Yet, this is very common in just about every match I have played. I really believe that something strange is happening here. I am a subscriber and have been since the first time I logged on. (about 6 or 7 months ago). After losing many death matches with scores like 50-3 (red) and domination battles 25-1000 (red), it gets a little frustrating that I pay for this kind of humiliation and yes it is very disheartening to lose 80% of every match. It takes a long time to master a ship with little amount of req's they give for losing. I have won many trophies, mostly because of assists, the most kill that I have ever had in a match was 4, and we still got our butts handed to us. I average about 7-9 assists per match, that's because it takes me 5 or six rail gun shots to kill the other guy, and by that time I get one shoted by a primary blaster, or a missile that keep lock during a barrel roll or other evasive actions. I have never once been able to keep an enemy in the cross-hair long enough to ire a missile, that is why I can't understand how somebody can maintain a 2 sec continues bead on my hip when I am darting every which way I can, in between every obstacle. I mean, really, how do you know that I am going to bank left and now down, or right instead of up? How can you keep a mouse led cursor lined up with another small circle for 2 seconds, when the other cursor is moving in all different directions randomly? Please tell my how I too can learn to use the force to anticipate every move my opponent is going to make before he does.
Anyway, That's my rant. I have also experienced many other extraordinary feats from enemy players that should not be possible, like killing me from a range that no primary weapon on any fighter is supposed to have. If anyone out there can tell me this is allowed to happen, and what satisfaction does Bioware get from making their paying customers feel like they are totally useless and feel humiliated every single day. Yeah, I know it's my choice to continue to allow myself to be treated in this matter, all I have to do is log off and never log back on. Yeah, I could give up, be a quitter, but why should I have to? Why can't I have something to show for the hundreds of dollars that I have spent on this game in the past 6 or so months (I have 8 level 75 toons, 1 for every class, 5 are mastered) I spend money at the cartel market, because I enjoy Star Wars, and I enjoy making my toons look the best that I can so yeah, hundreds of dollars. If I just quit, I have done all of this for nothing. I just wish I knew how NOT lose in GSF.
Michael E Harber MS
May the force be with you!

Nightmaregale's Avatar


Nightmaregale
01.15.2022 , 02:55 AM | #2
First and foremost hello there!
I have been playing GSF for a while now and have unlocked nearly all legacy challenges (except playing 500 games as a gunship because well i dont want to xD). The first thing I can tell you is that bioware cares very little about GSF. You can easily see that about the update frequency. I think it got a small update between 2.5 and 3.0 then it went dry for a couple of years till 5.5 and since then nothing... So yeah they care a lot and the game is what it is. At least it is somewhat balanced with multiple working game modes and multiple playstyles unlike other Star Fighter games (yes I am looking at you Squadrons). Personally I like it and i always find my way back to GSF.

The next thing is, what do you want? Personally I could possibly find an explanation for most of the things you ranted about. I think all the other vets can do the same. If you want to I can give them to you, but these are only assumptions since I haven't seen you fly in those situations or the damage logs, so my explanations might fit or might not fit.
If you want help to improve a bit or to understand GSF better I and multiple other Vets can help too. A lot of us are always open for questions and you can just ask away in the ingame GSF chat (/cjoin GSF) or in the discord I am certain people will answer.

I get that ranting helps dealing with the accumulated frustration
But in the end what do you want?
There are a lot of birds whistling in my head.
Like the Crested Orokeet, the Orokeet, the Orosquab, the Fawn Orobird, the Onyx Orobird, the Jewelled Orobird, the Tropical Orobird. They whistle beautiful songs in a Daydream and when they are hungry the songs become a Nightmare.

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
01.15.2022 , 05:36 AM | #3
I haven't quite forgotten what it was like to be new - and I really can't anyway considering they make up a lot of a typical gsf team.

The short answer is there is a lot of nuance and mechanical understanding that even with flight time and experience aren't natural to grasp. But I'll try to break down some situations.

When it seems like you get one shot, you may have been hit by multiple sources in quick succession, like 2 protorps, 2 slug rails, etc

You can actually be one shot, but that pretty much requires a critical or a damage overcharge powerup (reds).

Ships don't really move in a jerking motion aside from the engine maneuvers, so following someone can be easier or harder depending on distance.

Because of evasion and accuracy, hitting isn't as simple as just lining up reticle and firing. While all blasters do more damage within 500m some blasters like heavies are best used at farther ranges as its easier to properly line up target because the blasters lose so much accuracy from firing at higher angles away from the middle point of your ship. Burst laser cannons suffer the most at range but unlike most blasters work even better up close, as they have a larger firing arc and a decreased penalty for firing at angles away from dead center.

Rails can hit from up to 1500m away, tho the 1500 only really applies to hit checks when a target is moving away. Otherwise you need to be in 14900 or less to hit.

Protorps can lock from up to 11500 I think which is still a long ways away and makes it easier to keep the target from breaking the lock naturally (without using missile break).

Heavies upgraded and a few other weapons can partially penetrate or outright ignore (protorp) shields so one with full shields but low hull health can be taken out quickly.

Suffice it to say there is a lot to learn for a game mode that's largely been brushed off to the side when it didn't prove profitable for them.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
01.15.2022 , 11:43 AM | #4
As most have already stated most of these have a pretty solid explanation and could be multiple things. The 1 shotting is rarely/never actually one shotting, most likely multiple damage sources, but a DO set up strike can also do a lot with very little time. Another thing is changing directions to break a missile can actually sometimes make it easier to keep the lock depending on your distance because where you are feeling like you are moving around alot relative to his position you just aren't. Also, some missiles have larger firing arcs and faster lock times, but they typically aren't as dangerous as a P.Torp but they do still get people to react. The scores you are talking about sounds like you are not alone as a "new player" on your team and the enemy team has at least 1 veteran. Keep an eye out for the names of the people on the enemy team blowing you out and ask them to group with you and teach you it will make things make more sense. Also check your accuracy stat at the end of the match, if it reads under 40% there is probably something you are doing wrong which is keeping your kill rate low.

I get the frustration, because this game does an absolutely abysmal job of teaching its players. And with the systems in place there are a lot of things to know and situations to keep track of. I will just say that all of it can be learned, and while bioware largely ignores this section of the game, this is probably the most balanced game mode in all of SWTOR. Personally I just wish rewards were better, ship skins would be awesome.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
01.16.2022 , 08:57 PM | #5
Well, aside from another gunship with a damage overcharge hitting you, or a Proton torp with damage overcharge hitting you, you're almost certainly not getting one shot.

Sure, one particular shot is getting you, but the real problem is the 3, 4, 5, 6, or more shots that landed before it, which apparently you're not noticing. Don't feel bad. Lack of situational awareness tends to plague all beginners in GSF, and honestly, can even occasionally snag a very experienced pilot. Gunships, as nice as they are for beginners in the sense that they have a weapon that hits hard from a long distance, are notorious for their tendency to get pilots focused on looking down the scope at their current target, and ignoring the 1 or more ships coming in from the side with murderous intent. A good exercise for a beginner is to take two rail shots, go back to lasers, look at the mini-map, and reposition, then repeat the process. Do this until frequently looking at the minimap to spot ships sneaking up on you from the sides or behind is so automatic that you don't have to think about it anymore. That should increase your survivability significantly.

If you used a missile breaking engine maneuver then you didn't get locked one second later. Sorry, but the game doesn't work that way. The engine maneuvers give a 3 second immunity. Which in battle when you're feeling overwhelmed, may feel like only one second, but the silicon in your computer experiences time in a less subjective manner than humans do, so we can reliably bet that it's actually 3 seconds, no matter what it feels like. Distortion Field is not an engine maneuver. It is a shield ability, can only break locks before the missile is fired, and provides no immunity period at all. DF is a good choice for gunships, and using it before going to an engine maneuver is often a good play, but it does not work the same way as engine maneuvers anymore. Don't confuse/conflate the two, and be aware that guides written before the 5.5 balance patch may not be updated for the current game mechanics.


In terms of not being able to connect with missiles, part of your problem may be not knowing the difference between the rules for lasers and the rules for missiles.

Lasers need to have the target inside the primary weapon arc (usually, but not always the larger one), and then you need to line up your reticle over the lead indicator.

Missiles you just need to keep the target SHIP, not the lead indicator, inside the missile firing arc while holding down right mouse long enough to get a solid lock, then release. If you can hit, at all, ever, with railguns or lasers you should be able to land any of the missiles on targets quite reliably once you correctly understand how the missiles rules works. The geometry/mouse movement for missiles is significantly easier (less speed needed, less precision needed) than it is for lasers or railguns. Figure out what you're doing wrong in terms of process, and it should be pretty easy, since it sounds like you have some degree of competence with lasers and railguns.

https://www.youtube.com/c/GSFSchool has plenty of examples of lining up missile shots, laser shots, and railgun shots, in an instructional format.

In the channels section of that page, there are other good channels such as:

Drakolich's Channel has a mix of instructional, at a more advanced level, content and also a whole bunch of just PoV of what it looks like on the screen of someone who is very good at killing stuff in GSF (and also at staying alive).

And here's a brief How to: Proton Torpedoes vid I made for another person that was having trouble landing missile shots. The mechanics are the same for other missiles, but in general they have wider arcs and quicker locks so are easier than torps.

Note that for the current game mechanics, if you want to learn by watching, you need videos from after Oct. 2017 in order for the mechanics to generally be up to date.

Also as mentioned, hit up people for advice, grouping, etc. here on the forum, on the GSF Discord, or in the /GSF in game chat channel. We are, generally speaking, happy to help if we can.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

JCDenton's Avatar


JCDenton
01.16.2022 , 09:47 PM | #6
GSF has a lot of foundational mechanical/design problems, which is why it's so niche and generally being played solely for conquest by 90% of your team, and the enemy team. Getting some ship upgrades helps a lot, but it really does just come down to a coin toss as to whether or not you'll have a good/fun game, which is itself down to what parts of the bad map design and bad mechanics your team and the enemy team do and don't exploit, or know about.

If they haven't fixed it by now, I don't think they're going to. Buy proton torpedoes, buy the extra launch range, try to let a team mate go in first, and just sort of accept that once you've burned your anti-missile cool down, there really isn't much you can do.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
01.17.2022 , 06:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JCDenton View Post
GSF has a lot of foundational mechanical/design problems, which is why it's so niche and generally being played solely for conquest by 90% of your team, and the enemy team. Getting some ship upgrades helps a lot, but it really does just come down to a coin toss as to whether or not you'll have a good/fun game, which is itself down to what parts of the bad map design and bad mechanics your team and the enemy team do and don't exploit, or know about.

If they haven't fixed it by now, I don't think they're going to. Buy proton torpedoes, buy the extra launch range, try to let a team mate go in first, and just sort of accept that once you've burned your anti-missile cool down, there really isn't much you can do.
I am curious as to what you think the mechanical/design problems are? The tutorial and how it teaches players is definitely the largest problem. For the most part it is kind of like throwing a brand new player into ranked PvP on a Jedi Knight class and they have never played an mmo before in their life and then, because the players didn't read any guides he doesn't know that there are abilities besides strike and slash that he needs to put on his bar. Meanwhile he is being paired up against every single one of the top 50 players on his server. In this case I wouldn't say the game is bad once you understand the systems, but gaining that understanding is not made intuitive at all.

JCDenton's Avatar


JCDenton
01.17.2022 , 10:21 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I am curious as to what you think the mechanical/design problems are? The tutorial and how it teaches players is definitely the largest problem. For the most part it is kind of like throwing a brand new player into ranked PvP on a Jedi Knight class and they have never played an mmo before in their life and then, because the players didn't read any guides he doesn't know that there are abilities besides strike and slash that he needs to put on his bar. Meanwhile he is being paired up against every single one of the top 50 players on his server. In this case I wouldn't say the game is bad once you understand the systems, but gaining that understanding is not made intuitive at all.
The tutorial can hardly be called a tutorial, and seems like it was put together by someone who had already put in their notice.

As far as design problems, we'd be here all day, the root cause is they couldn't decide if they wanted X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter or something stat driven like the rest of the game, tried to half and half it, and got the worst of both worlds.

GSF has been out a long time, and the forums are dead, so mostly all I'm going to get here are people who have learned to live with the bad design and have stockholm syndromed themselves into thinking it's not actually bad, but the player count speaks for itself. A Star Wars dogfighting game where every match is dominated by sniper space ships, torpedo lock -> dive -> wait six seconds -> torpedo lock -> behind rock -> three seconds -> torpedo lock sequences, and playing ring around the rosie for two or three minutes on every satellite. They didn't exactly capture the battle of Endor.

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
01.19.2022 , 08:36 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by JCDenton View Post
The tutorial can hardly be called a tutorial, and seems like it was put together by someone who had already put in their notice.

As far as design problems, we'd be here all day, the root cause is they couldn't decide if they wanted X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter or something stat driven like the rest of the game, tried to half and half it, and got the worst of both worlds.

GSF has been out a long time, and the forums are dead, so mostly all I'm going to get here are people who have learned to live with the bad design and have stockholm syndromed themselves into thinking it's not actually bad, but the player count speaks for itself. A Star Wars dogfighting game where every match is dominated by sniper space ships, torpedo lock -> dive -> wait six seconds -> torpedo lock -> behind rock -> three seconds -> torpedo lock sequences, and playing ring around the rosie for two or three minutes on every satellite. They didn't exactly capture the battle of Endor.
Tutorial does virtually nothing for those that use it and its typically bypassed anyway.

Swtor was more populated when I started.

Gunships aren't usually the domineering force - but its definitely grown way too dependent on locks since the protorp wars started.

Players aren't motivated enough to improve - there are still some long time vets that should be far better by now. Most of the newer folk don't bother to stay.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana