Darth Nox notes his vision would "most likely" come true if Revan and the Emperor would not be stopped. No reason to see why the Wrath's wouldn't. Regardless, no Sith Lord since Vitiate could show dominance over Revan like Vitiate.

It obviously doesn't if the galaxy is still around, unless there's gonna be some BS plot device pulled out of Bioware's butt...and most likely doesn't mean it will.

It obviously doesn't if the galaxy is still around, unless there's gonna be some BS plot device pulled out of Bioware's butt...and most likely doesn't mean it will.

*facepalm* No, the vision is what would have happened if Revan would have beat the Strike Team.

Updated Link:

Neat.

Although I don't think that's an indication of his power as he would obviously use a ritual, or series of rituals, to do it. Like he tried in SWTOR Vanilla, if I remember the Knight story correctly.

*facepalm* No, the vision is what would have happened if Revan would have beat the Strike Team.

I realize that, but a vision is just a vision, it can't really be used for Vitiate cause it doesn't happen, it's just a possibility.

Yes, this is really amazing, but the scale of the abilities doesn't usually determine strength in 1v1.

Emperor is really ''darkside incaranation'' and such( althought Sidious was called ''darkside nexus'' ), but in combat he was proven vulnerable.

Read it this way: if A can be beaten by B and C while in extremely weakened state( let's say 10 times weaker than at his peak, for example ), then A can be beaten by D who is 10 times stronger than B and C. That being said, Emperor was beaten by a lightsaber supremacy, don't think any other sorcerer or sage would've stand a chance.

So unless Vitiate will show himself as a dueslist( not necessarily bladmaster, at least good DUELIST with the force ), I'd have to go with Sidious on this one.

But if we will define strength as ''power of the force'', ''scale of the abilities'', then Vitiate wins.

Neat.

 

Although I don't think that's an indication of his power as he would obviously use a ritual, or series of rituals, to do it. Like he tried in SWTOR Vanilla, if I remember the Knight story correctly.

And of course we all know Rituals accomplish what your standard power cannot, they can't be used to determine power in the force.

At this point Vitiate is more powerfull in my prsonal opinion, given im more into it atm then i am with sidious or other character.

I would never be guied by what Gl says.. specialy in the past and given his backrecord, and specialy, when Star wars is no longer his propriety right now, and because we all know what his word is worth anyway regarding this issues, nothing is ever set.

Point being, i think ultimately this is a personal, or fan preference, as the strongest its usualy what the writters chose to write about, at any given moment.

Its the same old story, who is stronger Superman, or Batman? everyone would say Superman because reasons, yet batman beat superman several times, because reasons. There isnt never a clear cut to the chace regarding fictional characters.

The writters have all the power to make things happen, a canon only exists to guide them in universe building, not to cage characters in illusionary fictional chains.

I do however find peculiar ironic and amusing, people complaining about eachothers of their fanboyism to certain characters, as if it wasnt even alowed at all, or because of a certain established canon, that probably doesnt matter anymore due to the changes, or because, a canon is only established to guide writters, not to set power levels to characters. all i mean jesus cant people alowed to have fun? what is the point then ?!

Just my two cents anyway.

And of course we all know Rituals accomplish what your standard power cannot, they can't be used to determine power in the force.

why not? are you saying anyone can do it? even someone who isnt powerfull enough in the force? or even force sensitive?

I highly doubt that is the case. If You dont have the power the rituals are useless that much seems to be the norm in this things.

When someone uses a ritual to do something, then a ritual is the requirement for it. There are no other ways to do the thing other than with a ritual.

People using the ritual thing vs Vitiate are just attempting powerless mud slinging.

We seen Sidious using Rituals as well. in de facto canon material ( clone wars animated show) , i wouldnt hold it against him, or his power.

The same way i dont hold vitiate against it. They are capable of doing such rituals, others dont, hence they are powerfull because of it.

I just want to point out a obvious notion here, that im not sure anyone here considered as of yet, as i didnt read the whole thread, alot of pages and all that.

Im considering, if Vitiate even holds as a sith to even be having this discussion to begin with?!

You know given his nature. he seems more a freak of the force ( or the dark side) then a true sith, he cares litle about the sith ideials, or the sith themselfs, in fact he cares nothing about the galaxy. Or how it should be ruled.

Also lorewise now, the sith dont see the emperor kindly, nor the ancient sith lords ( spirits) ever did see him kindly, or a true successor to the sith ( if the timeline videos are correct)

Sidious seems quite different in this regard if we ignore the Legends universe or former EU, and we only stick with canon sidious.

Point being There is no doubt that sidious was sith. Vitiate not so much ( or at least debatable), he just pose as it, in truth he is something else.

Or im incorrect?

Just putting foward the debate...

discusss away.

snip.

This from the guy that went into a logical dead end and ended up with hilarities such as being forbidden to compare Legends and Canon characters

Indeed. I've been so sad ever since Vitiate was declared non-canon. Such sad, much tears.

Along with the Color Team's personal Bible - Dark Empire which on top of everything else got replaced.

When someone uses a ritual to do something, then a ritual is the requirement for it. There are no other ways to do the thing other than with a ritual.

People using the ritual thing vs Vitiate are just attempting powerless mud slinging.

Palpatine says otherwise. Palpatine states that those who use rituals to use certain powers simply lack the power and will to use said techniques without a ritual. Palpatine states ANY technique can be done without rituals. A good case in point. Essence transfer. Zash required an elaborate ritual. Bane used it without one.

This from the guy that went into a logical dead end and ended up with hilarities such as being forbidden to compare Legends and Canon characters

 

If Batman vs Harry Potter debates do it for you by all means. Some people find it pointless to debate non canon characters versus canon characters but what do I know?

Let's look at this another way. You don't like people using Legends feats to hype Sidious up. Let's take away Legends. In the current Disney Canon who is more powerful than Sidious in your eyes?

Palpatine says otherwise. Palpatine states that those who use rituals to use certain powers simply lack the power and will to use said techniques without a ritual. Palpatine states ANY technique can be done without rituals. A good case in point. Essence transfer. Zash required an elaborate ritual. Bane used it without one.

This doesn't count in Vitiate's case+ Palpatine himself uses rituals so your argument is invalid.

If Batman vs Harry Potter debates do it for you by all means. Some people find it pointless to debate non canon characters versus canon characters but what do I know?

And hilarity ensues once again.

Because that's what people are doing in these forums.Comparing Batman and Harry Potter.

Surprise! Surpise! As it turns out you can no longer use post ep 6 Legends to draw arguments in favour of Palpatine so we are going to rationalize Comedy to feel better.

This doesn't count in Vitiate's case+ Palpatine himself uses rituals so your argument is invalid.

 

 

 

And hilarity ensues once again.

Because that's what people are doing in these forums.Comparing Batman and Harry Potter.

 

Surprise! Surpise! As it turns out you can no longer use post ep 6 Legends to draw arguments in favour of Palpatine so we are going to rationalize Comedy to feel better.

Batman and Harry Potter have the same thing in common. They aren't canon in each other's respective universes. It's an analogy. You know what we're not going to do? You know that Sith at the end of the episode 7 trailer? We're never going to seriously compare him to Vitiate. Wrath. Vowrawn. Or the others. You know why? They're not Canon in his universe.

Disney Canon Sidious? 1000 times better than Vitiate. Even without the Dark Empire because Vitiate doesn't exist.

but surely you don't think anyone with any knowledge on grammatical structure or proper use of spelling is old.

Yes keep being a grammar Nazi to people that don't have English as native language.I am sure it's going to erase that fact that new movies are coming out.

Yes keep being a grammar Nazi to people that don't have English as native language.I am sure it's going to erase that fact that new movies are coming out.

 

Do you realize no one is upset that the new movies are coming out?

BTW.

Disney Sidious is 1000 times more powerful than Vitiate. Discuss?

Do you realize no one is upset that the new movies are coming out?

how does being upset or not has anything to do with anything.

They're not Canon in his universe.

So?

Disney Sidious is 1000 times more powerful than Vitiate. Discuss?

this is the first thing you said that makes sense but there is the matter of you saying we are forbidden to compare Canon and Legends characters ?

how does being upset or not has anything to do with anything.

 

 

So?

 

 

This is the first thing you said that makes sense.

I take it by that lost comment what you dislike is anyone talking about anything Legends then? Why's that?

As to your "So." that's been my point. The Sith at the end of episode 7 is Kylo Ren (there's cards of the characters already out. This is his confirmed name.). Comparing Kylo Ren with say vitiate doesn't make sense. It's comparing a non-canon character with a canon character. Doing that is the same as when people argue who would win? Batman versus Goku? Goku is not Canon in batman's universe. Same with the other way around. This leads to a pointless debate.

Comparing Legends characters with Canon characters is comparing one character who doesn't exist to another who does exist. Why would you do that?

Why would you do that?

Are you going to ask this to every single person in these forums?

But to answer your question -because they are from the same franchise and were even in the same continuity ,which brings validity to the act of comparing.

Not to mention that there is nothing wrong with comparing anything with anything.We can even compare the Lannisters with the Zerg Overmind if we want.

Are you going to ask this to every single person in these forums?

But to answer your question -because they are from the same franchise and were even in the same continuity ,which brings validity to the act of comparing.

 

Not to mention that there is nothing wrong with comparing anything with anything.We can even compare the Lannisters to the Zerg Overmind if we want.

Sure. You can compare the Lannisters to the Zerg Overmind if you want but you can't expect people to take the argument seriously either. They weren't in the same continuity. Kylo Ren doesn't exist in Legends. Legends has become frozen right where it's at. The rules of Canon stopped existing and with that means the new stuff no longer overwrites the old stuff because the old stuff doesn't exist. Everything Luke Skywalker did after ROTJ is now non-canon but happened in the same continuity that exists in the old republic. Comparing Legends Sidious with Legends Vitiate is comparing two Non-Canon characters within their own continuity.

Comparing Episode 7 Luke Skywalker vs Legends Luke Skywalker is just as valid as Lannisters vs Zerg Overmind. Just as Kylo Ren vs Darth Baras.

Now if we compare Kylo Ren to Movie Vader? This is a more realistic comparison. Both characters exist in their own continuity. Both characters exist in their own medium.

I was talking in general,not about Kylo Ren.

snip

2 arguments :

1)No ,not ''just as valid''. We are comparing characters that are in the same Franchise and have the same stuff.Like for example the Force,jedi,sith,lighsabers,etc exist in both of them. And they used to be in the same continuity ,which means taking seriously that act of comparing them doesn't lessens just because of Disney's changes.

2) Again what is wrong with comparing the Lannisters and the Zerg Overmind?Someone taking the comparison seriously or not doesn't carry any weight.

And i will ask you again. Are you going to berate every thread and all the people in these Forums that are comparing characters?

I was talking in general,not about Kylo Ren.

 

2 arguments :

 

1)No ,not ''just as valid''. We are comparing characters that are in the same Franchise and have the same stuff.Like for example the Force,jedi,sith,lighsabers,etc exist in both of them. And they used to be in the same continuity ,which means taking seriously that act of comparing them doesn't lessens just because of Disney's changes.

2) Again what is wrong with comparing the Lannisters and the Zerg Overmind?Someone taking the comparison seriously or not doesn't carry any weight.

 

And i will ask you again. Are you going to berate every thread and all the people in these Forums that are comparing characters?

No. I'm not but that's what you're doing. You're mocking people for comparing Dark Empire Sidious to vitiate. This boggles my mind especially considering your analogy with Lannister vs Zerg Overmind or in this case how you admitted you see nothing wrong with comparing two characters from the same franchise. If that's the case what's wrong with someone comparing Legends Sidious vs Sidious? Legends Sidious vs Canon Luke Skywalker? Or Legends Sidious vs Lord Vitiate? Are they not two characters within the same franchise? I disagree that because they're from the same franchise they hold more weight. I will agree that it does make comparisons a bit easier given that their powers/abilities are similar.

If that's the case what's wrong with someone comparing Legends Sidious vs Sidious? Legends Sidious vs Canon Luke Skywalker? Or Legends Sidious vs Lord Vitiate?

Nothing.

However the Canon Sidious no longer benefits from post ep 6 EU/Legends, when you compare Vitiate vs Canon Sidious.And that's the point.

Nothing.

 

However the Canon Sidious no longer benefits from post ep 6 EU/Legends, when you compare Vitiate vs Canon Sidious.And that's the point of my gloating.

Except most people aren't doing this. They just prefer comparing two characters from the same continuity. Which would be Vitiate vs Dark Empire Sidious.