Interesting read, and OP i agree with you. I did not find any information stating that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. I couldn't statements of George himself either. It's pretty obvious that Vitiate is far more powerful than Sidious, however, Prime Sidious was probably capable of fighting Vitiate equally. By the way, these statements that by people, saying "OOOHHHH you are no Star wars fan" IS DAMN ********!!! Retcon happens, and it happened. Nobody i asked was able to give me information about Sidious being the most powerful. And for all people who are that stupid, George Lucas has actually stated, the movies were his vision and he accepts additions in the Expanded Universe. Some people will probably flame me but before you cannot show me a 100% proof that Sidious was stated as the most powerful Sith Lord ever, AFTER the release of SW:TOR, than pls **** and ****.

Interesting read, and OP i agree with you. I did not find any information stating that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. I couldn't statements of George himself either. It's pretty obvious that Vitiate is far more powerful than Sidious, however, Prime Sidious was probably capable of fighting Vitiate equally. By the way, these statements that by people, saying "OOOHHHH you are no Star wars fan" IS DAMN ********!!! Retcon happens, and it happened. Nobody i asked was able to give me information about Sidious being the most powerful. And for all people who are that stupid, George Lucas has actually stated, the movies were his vision and he accepts additions in the Expanded Universe. Some people will probably flame me but before you cannot show me a 100% proof that Sidious was stated as the most powerful Sith Lord ever, AFTER the release of SW:TOR, than pls **** and ****.

To quote myself:

 

"Well this is very interesting, because I never took much note of these quotes concerning Vitiate in the SWTOR Encyclopedia.

 

Regardless the fact remains that Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history according to G-Canon. Now I'm not sure if a statement was ever made by George Lucas himself but I expect there was. Why? Because of the wealth of source books that state that this is the case. Sourcebooks which are defined as G-Canon. To quote a few:

Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

 

--Taken from Vader: The Ultimate Guide

 

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

 

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology

 

When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."

 

--Taken from Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm

 

Now you are probably thinking that this conflicts with the SWTOR Encyclopedia but it does not. Why? Time period. The context in which the statements about Vitiate being the most powerful Force user in history are set in the Old Republic era. Effectively meaning that Vitiate is the most powerful Force user in history up until this point. Likewise the statements above are made in the context of Sidious' time period, which comes after Vitiate's. This therefore means that Sidious canonically outranks Vitiate.

 

However, what is does mean is that Vitiate can hold a candle to Sidious and then some, which some people don't seem to want to believe. It also means that canonically Vitiate is more powerful than the likes of Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Nomi Sunrider, Thon etc. Which is very enlightening indeed."

 

Retcons happen yes, but as of yet Leland Chee - the Keeper of the Holocron - has made no such statement so we have to hold the above statements as still valid, regardless of when the books were printed.

 

Either way, I do not believe there is a conflict in canon here.

So you're basically saying, they are equals?

So you're basically saying, they are equals?

No, I'm saying that before Sidious came along, Vitiate was the most powerful Force user the galaxy had ever seen. But then Sidious came along and outclassed him, effectively taking the title.

 

Nevertheless if the two ever engaged in a battle, it would be fierce to say the least.

No, I'm saying that before Sidious came along, Vitiate was the most powerful Force user the galaxy had ever seen. But then Sidious came along and outclassed him, effectively taking the title.

 

Nevertheless if the two ever engaged in a battle, it would be fierce to say the least.

 

The books you mentioned, were probably released BEFORE the SWTOR Encyclopedia, so i still think Vitiate is more powerful. However, while Vitiate being more powerful, he'd eventually still lose. He was more of a monster, Sidious on the other hand had great intellect and was cunning. Sidious has gathered tons of knowledge about the force and could bring up a plan to defeat Vitiate. So in my opinion it's

 

In power: Vitiate > Palpatine

 

But the one who would win the fight would probably be Sidious.

Edited June 18, 2013 by ShenLongKazama

Well lets be clear that Nyriss was only able to kill Meetra and Scourge after they she had defeated them in a pitched battle. So not sure what the relevance is their.

Once again, it is a scripted fight; Nyriss wanted to find out what Scourge was up to, so when she reached his position, she realized that Scourge had betrayed her after she saw Meetra with him. She was now up against two powerful individuals, so she decided not to give them the opportunity to strike at her first and she comfortably disarmed them after a pitched battle. Now she had ample time to gather sufficient power to utterly destroy them but by then Revan interfered.

 

And while I see what your saying concerning the duel with the Sith Emperor I would disagree. 'One-shooting' Revan would amount to this. Those guys weren't even able to get close to the Emperor. Revan on the other hand was not only able to get close but reflects his bolts of lightning back at him. I mean, the very fact that Scourge recieved visions in which the Sith Emperor died would imply the stakes were far higher than you think. (I think we are forgetting how Meetra almost killed the Emperor.)

Revelation:

 

 

 

 

If T3-M4 had not interfered, Revan would have been utterly destroyed by this single attack. Prior to this, Tenebrae was toying with him; after getting some taste of his own medicine, he realized that Revan had become very powerful and he should be dealt with accordingly.

 

Regardless, it could be argued that Vitiate was not well prepared for that confrontation. Though he was no more prepared for the Jedi strike team.

Makes sense; he had invested his powers to strengthening his minions; he had made his Imperial Guard virtually immune to Force powers when they were fighting Revan and his allies.

 

But anyway, you claim "Tenebrae have canonically demonstrated such capability; their is no room for argument anymore." - care to elaborate? I can think of no instance when the Sith Emperor has performed anything that Sidious would not be able to counter.

Their is no form of defensive application I am aware of which can withstand the mysterious power that Tenebrae unleashed on the whole Dark Council led by Darth Lokess. I mean, they were Dark Councilors and supposed to be extraordinarily well-versed in the dark arts. Regardless, of power, Sidious had possessed biological hosts/clones and their is a limit to how much biological bodies can be protected with the Force. Even Abeloth could not make her hosts immune, regardless of her enormous power.

 

Enslaving the minds of 8,000 Sith Lords? I think Sidious, who has manipulated the minds of billions and completely dominated the mind of Luke Skywalker, would be able to resist such an attack. After all Revan and the Hero of Tython were able to. And the visions of Scourge would suggest Meetra could too.

Enslaving the minds of billions of "mooks" may look impressive on sheer scale but it is the "powerful individuals" that pose real challenge to effectiveness of mental powers. Analogy: you may dominate ants but not a Lion.

 

Also, Sidious broke Luke after defeating him in single combat. I have sources with me. Also, Tenebrae have broken both Revan and HoT with his mental powers; Revan broke free completely after (unexpectedly) undergoing mindwipe from the Jedi Council and HoT broke free from help of Orgus Din' spirit. Since both Revan and HoT were immensely talented Force-users themselves, they managed to develop defensive capabilities to boost their chances to endure mental bombardment from Tenebrae in the future. Telepathic powers are just one of the options; Tenebrae knows a lot about the dark side and he have many many options under his disposal to subdue his opponents; he packed some extremely potent capabilities in this aspect. Keep in mind that much of his dark side talents are still shrouded in mystery. Case in point is the mysterious power which he used to purge his first Dark Council. As pointed out in the essay, he had reached a condition (like Sidious did) where possibilities for him were endless.

 

Absorbing the life force of said Sith Lords and the planet they inhabited? This is largely irrelevant as he did so with the aid of the Sith previously mentioned.

They were pawns in the game. His signature was the largest and dwarfed all others since only he survived and all others perished. Keep in mind that he had planned to create enormous (unnatural) reserves of energies for himself which he would feed upon to artificially prolong his life and prevent deterioration caused by prolonged dark side practices. Those 8000 Sith Lords were sweet honey for him.

 

Destroying the entire Dark Council possibly through manipulation of the weather? Well as I have explained that feat only proves him capable of 'one-shoting' a single DC member as because they were caught by surprise, they were unable to combine their power. This is supported by the fact that Revan, who proved himself stronger than the average DC member, was not overwhelmed in a similar manner.

It is (not) manipulation of weather; it is a mysterious power that we do not know much about. It might be one of the most potent options among Tenebrae's arsenal and could be unleashed once he would be absolutely ready for huge odds. Tenebrae possibly had some time at his disposal to prepare himself for this kind of assassination attempt (half hour or something?). He doesn't needs significant time to amp himself to such a level though as apparent from his second purge attempt.

 

Likewise Sidious could resist such an attack, and would probably preempt it given his remarkable ability in precognition.

If Sidious was supposedly "all-knowing" then why the hell he miscalculated his chances against Luke and Leia?

 

Subduing a Jedi strike team with a storm of Force lightning? Well only one of them was a Jedi Master and only one of them (the Hero of Tython) was renowned for his combat abilities, and he had yet to reach the pinnacle of his power. I'm sure Sidious would have little trouble defending against such an attack and would likely blast Vitiate back with his own more powerful lightning.

 

And that's about it.

You should focus on canonical descriptions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, HoT's victory is circumstantial:

 

The fight is obviously circumstantial. Sith Emperor had commenced his ultimate plan to destroy the entire Galaxy and he invested his powers in a ritual of such scope. This was the right opportunity to strike at him; Lord Scourge set the stage for this event.

 

When HoT arrived, Sith Emperor was not in the position to dominate him with his powers this time since he needed time to disengage from the ritual and revitalize his power. Not to forget, Beren'thor also struck another blow to Sith Emperor during this time by killing his First Son who planned to destroy the Jedi Order from within and aid Sith Emperor in his super-ritual.

 

Also, being most powerful does not makes you invincible or unstoppable; sometimes, a character is in the zone or fully prepared and sometimes vulnerable. Their are many examples:-

 

- Luke and Leia subdued Sidious

- Meetra and Visas subdued Nihilus

- Satele and Mace subdued Malgus

- Luke subdued Abeloth

- Obi-Wan subdued Anakin

- Meetra subdued Traya

 

So battles in Star Wars are never black and white.

 

You are forgetting the fact that Sith Emperor had one-shotted the entire Jedi Strike Team (HoT included) earlier. During this battle, Sith Emperor was free and had not invested his energies anywhere. I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

No doubt that HoT also wields immense power and he is seemingly incredibly skilled fighter; possibly rivals Luke in skill. However, he does not matches Tenebrae in power and it is obvious from this encounter that the Sith Lord wasn't properly prepared for combat this time because he had significantly invested his powers in other areas during this time. Since Tenebrae was vulnerable, he went to the Dark Temple to commence his Galaxy-busting ritual; that place was the safest bet. However, HoT is a "champion of light" and he managed to do the impossible (the Force is with him now). As evident from the cut-scenes in this duel, Tenebrae was not in the condition to unleash his most potent powers during this fight due to obvious reasons described earlier.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Hero of Tython equal to Luke? Yeah, right.

Hero of Tython equal to Luke? Yeah, right.

Key word is "skill" and not "power." He may not be as powerful but he is mastering the Force nonetheless.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Key word is "skill" and not "power." He may not be as powerful but he is mastering the Force nonetheless.

 

I doubt HoT could rival Luke in any fashion, to be honest. We all know what Luke can do.

I doubt HoT could rival Luke in any fashion, to be honest. We all know what Luke can do.

Well, only time will tell.

 

However, HoT's accomplishments are remarkable as well. The game doesn't gives us much impression but canonically he have dealt with "impossible odds."

Well, only time will tell.

 

However, HoT's accomplishments are remarkable as well. The game doesn't gives us much impression but canonically he have dealt with "impossible odds."

 

True, true. I suppose we will wait until the HoT's abilities are canonized. But I still don't see how he would rival Luke.

The key word is "ever" which have left room for creative liberties. It is not necessary that Sidious may loose his (TOP) Sith Lord position even though the possibility exists but that a Sith Lord have been introduced in the mythos who can actually defeat him in single combat; Tenebrae it is.

 

What I mean is aren't your sources "in universe sources" so reliant on the knowledge of those people compiling them and also that the word "ever" may well be used but at the time of TOR can only refer to the past and present and not possibly be a statement that no one in the future will ever surpass him (sidious or whoever) since the compiler could have no knowledge of the future(or at least not perfect enough).

 

Examination of their actions and abilities however could lead you to conclude one or the other is more powerful, I'm not getting in on THAT debate, though its worth considering that raw-power doesn't always translate to kickassedness. Knowledge and power might but even that's not certain.

What I mean is aren't your sources "in universe sources" so reliant on the knowledge of those people compiling them and also that the word "ever" may well be used but at the time of TOR can only refer to the past and present and not possibly be a statement that no one in the future will ever surpass him (sidious or whoever) since the compiler could have no knowledge of the future(or at least not perfect enough).

Majority of the canon sources are "in universe sources." Such sources leave room for creative liberties.

 

In a latest "real world source" I am aware of (written by Pablo himself; a very senior figure), the author chose to note declare or reaffirm any Jedi and Sith most powerful. This source features Tenebrae, Plagueis and Sidious. Name is "The Essential Reader's Companion."

 

Though I have also stated this:

 

The key word is "ever" which have left room for creative liberties. It is not necessary that Sidious may loose his (TOP) Sith Lord position even though the possibility exists but that a Sith Lord have been introduced in the mythos who can actually defeat him in single combat; Tenebrae it is.

 

---

 

Examination of their actions and abilities however could lead you to conclude one or the other is more powerful, I'm not getting in on THAT debate, though its worth considering that raw-power doesn't always translate to kickassedness. Knowledge and power might but even that's not certain.

You have a point here. This is why I am flexible in my perceptions.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Bloody iPad. Edited June 18, 2013 by Trimaxion

To quote myself:

 

"Well this is very interesting, because I never took much note of these quotes concerning Vitiate in the SWTOR Encyclopedia.

 

Regardless the fact remains that Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history according to G-Canon. Now I'm not sure if a statement was ever made by George Lucas himself but I expect there was. Why? Because of the wealth of source books that state that this is the case. Sourcebooks which are defined as G-Canon. To quote a few:

 

Now you are probably thinking that this conflicts with the SWTOR Encyclopedia but it does not. Why? Time period. The context in which the statements about Vitiate being the most powerful Force user in history are set in the Old Republic era. Effectively meaning that Vitiate is the most powerful Force user in history up until this point. Likewise the statements above are made in the context of Sidious' time period, which comes after Vitiate's. This therefore means that Sidious canonically outranks Vitiate.

 

However, what is does mean is that Vitiate can hold a candle to Sidious and then some, which some people don't seem to want to believe. It also means that canonically Vitiate is more powerful than the likes of Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Nomi Sunrider, Thon etc. Which is very enlightening indeed."

 

Retcons happen yes, but as of yet Leland Chee - the Keeper of the Holocron - has made no such statement so we have to hold the above statements as still valid, regardless of when the books were printed.

 

Either way, I do not believe there is a conflict in canon here.

All works, information and statements (from authors other then GL) are C-canon. Lucas does not even bothers with EU materials; at maximum, he will consult an encyclopedia (encyclopedias are also C-canon sources) if he wants to learn about information which is not his work. Works, information and statements of GL are G-canon only. Some C-canon sources can contain G-canon information at best. However, information about characters which is not from GL himself are C-canon actually.

 

Also, GL have made no such claim.

 

EDIT: Film novelizations do confuse me in regard to canon. They are claimed to be G-canon sources, yet not written by GL himself but other authors.

 

This is interesting though:

 

"You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving." (Leeland Chee)

 

But since GL is no longer the boss now, path for creative liberties is absolutely clear consequently.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

All works, information and statements (from authors other then GL) are C-canon. Lucas does not even bothers with EU materials; at maximum, he will consult an encyclopedia (encyclopedias are also C-canon sources) if he wants to learn about information which is not his work. Works, information and statements of GL are G-canon only. Some C-canon sources can contain G-canon information at best. However, information about characters which is not from GL himself are C-canon actually.

 

Also, GL have made no such claim.

G-canon does not only encompass statements made by George Lucas.

 

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon.

 

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. ~ Wookieepedia

 

Reference books means Encyclopedias, and as a George Lucas creation, any statements made in Encylopedias concerning Sidious are G-Canon. The New Essential Chronology certainly falls under this category and Vader: The Ultimate Guide also does also as it is based on a character from the movies. And the Star Wars Insider being the official Star Wars magazine can also be considered to be G-Canon. So yes, these are G-Canon statements, the SWTOR Encyclopedia however is C-Canon as it doesn't deal directly with a George Lucas creation. So even if there is a conflict, G-Canon takes precedence automatically unless Leland Chee states otherwise.

 

As for the rest of your points, Vitiate simply does not possess the capabilities to dominate Sidious' mind. His own telepathic abilities themselves indicate he is perfectly capable of defending against such an attack. And given that it relies on oppressing the individual with the dark side I doubt it will be so effective against the black hole in the dark side himself. Likely he would be able to resist in the same way that the Hero of Tython and Revan managed to. Sidious is, after all like them, an immensely talented Force user who knows almost everything about the dark side.

 

This 'mysterious power' was likely a manipulation of the weather. I only say this because the SWTORE makes mention of the particularly violent weather. Why would it do this? The weather is always stormy on Dromund Kaas so it seems pointless to point out the obvious. A flash of light would indicate lightning, and while it may have been a ritual, a form of alter environment seems more likely. That said, just because a power is mysterious does not mean it can't countered. Ultimately all Force powers are just different manifestations of the Force, and all can be countered with superior strength in the Force. Sidious would probably be weakened, but the chances he would die are very slim indeed. I mean if Darth Nox can survive this...

Edited June 18, 2013 by Beniboybling

But since GL is no longer the boss now, path for creative liberties is absolutely clear now.

This is largely irrelevant, as G-Canon still stands. So any statements that have already been categorise as G-Canon will remain so. And its yet to be confirmed whether future statements made by George Lucas will bear the same weight. What we can say for sure though is that nobody with the possible exception of Disney itself has the authority to override G-Canon. It is not a free-for-all now George Lucas is gone as many perceive it to be.

G-canon does not only encompass statements made by George Lucas.

 

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon.

 

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. ~ Wookieepedia

 

Reference books means Encyclopedias, and as a George Lucas creation, any statements made in Encylopedias concerning Sidious are G-Canon. The New Essential Chronology certainly falls under this category and Vader: The Ultimate Guide also does also as it is based on a character from the movies. And the Star Wars Insider being the official Star Wars magazine can also be considered to be G-Canon. So yes, these are G-Canon statements, the SWTOR Encyclopedia however is C-Canon as it doesn't deal directly with a George Lucas creation. So even if there is a conflict, G-Canon takes precedence automatically unless Leland Chee states otherwise.

Their are so many statements regarding canon that it gets confusing. I suspect that canon rules and norms themselves are being refined/changed with passage of time. Also, with GL no longer being the boss, his works now may have same credibility as the works of other authors (I am not certain about this though but the path to creative liberties is absolutely clear now). Regardless, this is now the issue of Disney administration and it has already made some decisions that GL would not.

 

As for the rest of your points, Vitiate simply does not possess the capabilities to dominate Sidious' mind. His own telepathic abilities themselves indicate he is perfectly capable of defending against such an attack. And given that it relies on oppressing the individual with the dark side I doubt it will be so effective against the black hole in the dark side himself. Likely he would be able to resist in the same way that the Hero of Tython and Revan managed to. Sidious is, after all like them, an immensely talented Force user who knows almost everything about the dark side.

I am not sure about this because Tenebrae have element of surprise on his side against first-timers specially. He have never failed at breaking any opponent during his first encounter with them at minimum.

 

This 'mysterious power' was likely a manipulation of the weather. I only say this because the SWTORE makes mention of the particularly violent weather. Why would it do this? The weather is always stormy on Dromund Kaas so it seems pointless to point out the obvious. A flash of light would indicate lightning, and while it may have been a ritual, a form of alter environment seems more likely.

The key word is "sudden flash." Therefore, this power is a mystery currently (open to creative liberties). Ritual is not a possibility because it does not fits in this kind of event; their is not a single example in the mythos which depicts a ritual being utilized by a single dark side practitioner as a weapon to destroy his/her opponent(s) in an expected combat situation (offensive Sith powers exist for a reason). In the affiliated canon source, feats performed on the basis of rituals have been explicitly stated to be such, but feats not performed on the basis of rituals have been stated to be such. I am sticking with canon representation. Also, if Tenebrae could "easily" defeat a Jedi Strike Team (of strongest individuals) in addition to investing his powers in other areas simultaneously, this feat seems to be a realistic possibility for him if he chooses to focus his full or nearly full might on this objective solely. Therefore, spin it in which manner you want to, such an argument will be meritless without evidence. Furthermore, Tenebrae can do feats with bare hands that many Sith Lords required amulets or trinkets to perform. Therefore, Tenebrae's command of the dark side is not to be underestimated; for all his might, command of the dark side, and hype, it is logical for him to possess unique talents in comparison to majority of other Sith Lords.

 

That said, just because a power is mysterious does not mean it can't countered. Ultimately all Force powers are just different manifestations of the Force, and all can be countered with superior strength in the Force. Sidious would probably be weakened, but the chances he would die are very slim indeed. I mean if Darth Nox can survive this...

This quote always comes to mind:

 

"There are techniques in the Force, against which there is no defense." (Darth Traya)

 

I believe that immortality is the best form of defense; at minimum, the immortal individual can survive in the form of essence after the body or host itself gets destroyed.

 

Their is a limit to how much abuse a physical body of even a trained Force-user can take and how effective defensive applications can be. Raw power alone does not makes much difference because defensive applications still have to be learned. As pointed out several times before, Abeloth also lost several of her hosts in combat against her opponents. A reason could be that she is not hardcore on the defensive front regardless of her power.

 

Also, Nox is bad@ss even by Sith standards. However, he is unique in comparison to many others (he possesses extraordinary supernatural abilities); he demonstrates Sith Emperor like skills but obviously not on his level. I suspect that Nox have the potential to become ultimate bad@ss after Sith Emperor.

 

Sidious for all his power, falls short on the defensive front as well as per my observation. Much of his focus was on developing his offensive capabilities, but since he became an immortal, he could survive as an essence in a worst case scenario but it is a helpless state to be in until a host is found which can be possessed and even essence itself can be terminated or trapped permanently (happened to Sidious). If I am missing something here, enlighten me with an example featuring Sidious.

 

This is largely irrelevant, as G-Canon still stands. So any statements that have already been categorise as G-Canon will remain so. And its yet to be confirmed whether future statements made by George Lucas will bear the same weight. What we can say for sure though is that nobody with the possible exception of Disney itself has the authority to override G-Canon. It is not a free-for-all now George Lucas is gone as many perceive it to be.

I respect your opinion but we fans do not have much say in these affairs. I am not saying that G-Canon will be discarded or something but that C-Canon and G-Canon might hold same level of credibility under Disney administration. This administration have absolute power over all aspects of Star Wars now; it has already cancelled clone wars and begin work on Episode 7. None of this would have happened if GL was still the boss. We need to work with latest developments and not stick to the past.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

None of this changes the fact that Sidious is an incredibly powerful Sith Lord and far far more capable of defending against such attacks than a Jedi Strike team, a Dark Council member or Revan. Unless Vitiate defeats someone of Sidious' caliber in such a manner the statement that Vitiate can feasibly defeat anyone with enough preparation remains invalid. I'd also like to point out that Sidious' defensive capabilities are by no means lacking. There is really no difference between offense and defense when it comes to the Force. They all stem from the same source.

 

And concerning G-Canon, until changes are made we cannot make assumptions. We really have no reason to believe that Disney will shake up a canon-system which has worked for over a decade. And I don't see why SWTOR would take any more precedence over the movies now Disney are in charge. It will always be the other way around regardless of when the material will be produced.

None of this changes the fact that Sidious is an incredibly powerful Sith Lord and far far more capable of defending against such attacks than a Jedi Strike team, a Dark Council member or Revan.

Abeloth was far stronger then Sidious and she could not make her hosts immune to destruction in combat situations; seriously what is your point?

 

All I see coming from you is "more powerful" again and again and again until it gets repetitive. Is their need for you to make this assertion again and again? Power alone does not determines mastery or skill in a particular talent; it has to be learned and honed. Otherwise, power (alone) would magically solve every complexity. Yes, their are a few cases in which some capabilities come natural to a Force-user (Tenebrae being an example) but even in this case, such capabilities have to be honed to bolster their effectiveness.

 

What Nox accomplished have no bearing upon how Sidious would be able to deal with that kind of power; Sidious's mastery in defensive applications would decide his fate... If Sidious is so good at defending himself then why he didn't nullify the impact of Force Harmony technique used against him (from inferior Force-users I may add)?

 

I strongly assert that their is no character in the mythos who have "no" vulnerabilities that can not be exploited. If this was the case then Sidious would have been invincible. Yes, Tenebrae would have accomplished this position after the success of his ultimate plan but he was stopped so we can knock him off from this level of capability as well.

 

Unless Vitiate defeats someone of Sidious' caliber in such a manner the statement that Vitiate can feasibly defeat anyone with enough preparation remains invalid.

Tenebrae defeated 11 Dark Councilors in a single blow. Can you comprehend the defensive capabilities that Tenebrae likely overcame during this event and the sheer potency of the mysterious power he unleashed? Not easy I think..

 

Can you offer any example of Sidious being able to dominate 11 extremely powerful individuals simultaneously in this manner? I know that he can accomplish the same with his Force Storm but excluding it?

 

You have started to loose touch of logic and objectivity in your arguments now. I thought we could reach an understanding but sigh..

 

I'd also like to point out that Sidious' defensive capabilities are by no means lacking. There is really no difference between offense and defense when it comes to the Force. They all stem from the same source.

You are so wrong on this front that it is not even funny. Abeloth's example proves you utterly wrong. Sorry.

 

And concerning G-Canon, until changes are made we cannot make assumptions. We really have no reason to believe that Disney will shake up a canon-system which has worked for over a decade. And I don't see why SWTOR would take any more precedence over the movies now Disney are in charge. It will always be the other way around regardless of when the material will be produced.

Only time will tell. Not arguing on this front anymore.

Edited June 18, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

All I'm arguing is that Vitiate couldn't utterly decimate Sidious with a single shot. Why is that so illogical? Given that it has never happened, and Vitiate has never done such a thing to a Force user of equal caliber you have just as little objective proof as I on the matter - just theory - and can't just say 'you're wrong' because we have differing opinions.

All I'm arguing is that Vitiate couldn't utterly decimate Sidious with a single shot. Why is that so illogical? Given that it has never happened, and Vitiate has never done such a thing to a Force user of equal caliber you have just as little objective proof as I on the matter - just theory - and can't just say 'you're wrong' because we have differing opinions.

The combined might of "prepared" 11 Dark Councilors (of different capabilities each logically) is logically more potent force to neutralize then any single individual's defensive capabilities. And I have proved with an example that Sidious's defensive abilities can be undermined by relatively inferior Force-users; just one admirable technique/power is required.

 

So yes, Tenebrae can one-shot Sidious, if fully prepared, by virtue of the available evidence. However, Sidious can also one-shot Tenebrae, if he gets the opportunity to unleash his Force Storm upon him. I am being totally fair and logical here. In short, during ideal conditions, both can just one-shot each other.

 

All potential if(s) and but(s) have been addressed by me in previous discussions.

 

Yes, if both are pitted against each other (in WTH moment) then it is possible that the battle between them may reach epic proportions with one of them edging out in the end; this one can go either way too.

Edited June 19, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Firstly- You did a great job finding and comparing facts,friend!

Secondly- i'm fully at your side.

Darh Vitiate is the most powerful Sith ever lived.Sidious is just film-puppet,made for representing THE GREATEST EVIL IN THE GALAXY ,cause the Saga really was needed in Powerful Bad Guy.

I dont know was it mentioned or not, but Hero of Tython just destroyed The Voice of Emperor,not himself.you can learn about this in Sith Warrior Storyline and some fan-sites. Yep,i really didnt read all of 10pages of disputes, but im curious what happened with The Emperor after that? No explanation or something? He just gone for 3000 years?Or did he realy die sometime?

This discussion has got a little silly now.

 

Lets face It, in the real world I could "one shot" Mike Tyson if I crept up behind him with an iron bar.

You guys are so silly , the defenders of silly novel characters that is off canon(videogame mecanics characters)

 

Why is it so hard to understand Vitiate fanboys and girls that the force users in old republic were all way weaker then in Skywalker ara ? why is this so hard to understand ? i mean really ? Bane alone or Zanna would have wiped the floor with these characters exept maybe Malgus as he is actually more canon then any old republic characters.

Nothing is more patetic thwen someone making up excuses for characters just because they like a character.

 

Did you not see Sidious vs Maul and Savage in TCW ? Vitate was weaker then Savage alone and Savage was strong.

Sidious vs Yoda hello ! when ever could Vitiate throw things around like that with eas ? never as he is much weaker.

 

Really simpel, Bane Made the rule of two,if you have a IQ above 5 you understand how this works, why Zannah

had to defeat Bane and became stronger and so on,every Sith after Bane became a little stronger.

Just imagine how Powerful Sidious was.

 

Also the fact that George Lucas have said MANY times he is the most powerful Sith lord ever triumph anything

you damd ignorant fanboys thinks about anything !!!

Edited June 19, 2013 by Lord_Karsk