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Galactic Seasons + PvP = A Bad Combo


TheRealKingCrazy

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I have just finished my 3 unranked warzones to complete this stupid weekly PO. I will admit, the matches was fun...that was sarcasm, by the way. It was entirely unplayable.

 

All 3 matches were utter stomps. And you know why they were stomps? Because hardcore PvPers were matched up against people who just want their stupid weekly PO done and over with. People on the "non-hardcore group" often intentionally threw matches just to get out of there faster. The hardcore PvPers in Huttball matches would take advantage of the fact that no one on the non-hardcore team wanted to play by setting up 3 players in the opposing end zone, wait for someone to send a ball up and then scored...and no one on the non-hardcore matches even bothered to try and contest them, because again, they just want to get their weekly PO done. And of course, lots of players in one place means a crap ton of lag, to the point where even attacking someone is a hit-or-miss scenario where one instant they are at one spot, the next they are 90 meters away.

 

And to make matters worse, I received 2 pieces of hate mail from throwing teammates basically saying "Stop trying and let the other team win" before listing a number of incendiary comments about my mog (which by the way, I don't care about my mog as much as some of you, so your mog insults have no effect on me).

 

PvP these days is bad for kids. The Galactic Season Weekly/Daily POs failed to "revive" PvP, but instead resulted in "ruined" PvP as a result of people throwing matches 24/7 leading to easy stomps. The devs should realize that Galactic Season + PvP is a bad combo and should remove them ASAP, cos almost no one except for a few hardcore PvP guilds (the number of which is dwindling by the day) want to do PvP.

 

Rant over. I will now take my official permaban from this forum. King Crazy out!

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Thing is, you're not wrong. We've seen this before, like in the first iteration of Galactic Command, where the Unassembled Components that allowed people to buy the same tokens that dropped in Operations. These were the gear-upgrade tokens that allowed people to buy the higher tiers of gear ahead of getting them in Command crates. Non-PvPers invaded "regs" (unranked), and the quality of matches went through the floor.

 

And then they fixed it so there were other ways of getting UCs, and it got better.

 

Well, until they added the 236 and 240 rated augments (with the release of the Copero flashpoint story segment), which were crafted, except that they required these two new materials, one of which dropped mostly from high-tier Operations, while the other dropped only from PvP. The quality of matches went through the floor again.

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I agree to the OP and I tell you, I am used to be pummeled hard, face rolled or any of those terms, and I am ok with that, but what doesn't feel ok is that the situation is provoked and intensified by the way the designers of the GS does things.

 

If they motivate ppl to queue, who don't care about pvp and don't care at all about the objectives or any aspect of a match, it's gonna create a horrible experience for those who enjoy pvp and wants to actually play it right

 

It reminds me when I was a kid and me and some other boys who hated football were forced to play at school and we just tottaly screwed up the team, intentionally or non intentionally and got teammates pissed because they were actually wanting to enjoy it

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Part of the problem (which has been a problem since day one) is allowing pre-mades to queue for regs. Any team with a 4-man pre-made and 4 randoms is going to win 99% of the time vs 8 random players.

 

as a person who spends hours PvPing on a daily basis, I feel the need to correct the populist misinformation that you are spreading with this post.

 

first of all, the vast majority of regs have premades on both teams. this is particularly true when the issue is FOUR-MAN premades.

 

now, not all premades are alike. on SF, for example, the most devastating premades usually are not even 4m. It's a healer and two dps (any combination of lightning sorc, AP PT, fury/carny mara, conealment op). and more often than not, they're ignoring objectives for the thrill of the hunt, so to speak. what makes them devastating is 1) they know how to maximize their spec's dps, 2) they practice this thing called "focus fire" where they attack the same target at the same time, and 3) they know all the other specs in the game, so they know how to dps *around* their target's DCDs.

 

they can do all of this with just 2 dps. don't even need the healer. for example, there's a couple sins in <obliterate> that will queue regs and just go on killing sprees. if I'm on their team in the same section of the map, I'll stick with them and focus down whoever they're targeting. that's a 2m premade and a solo who recognizes how the usefulness of focus fire. and I've been on the other end of it plenty of times as well.

 

I don't know what goes on over on DM. from the sounds of it over the years, it does sound like a more callous experience vis-a-vis SF and, before that, CO, JC, and JM. but I can tell you this, premades were a much larger problem in the past when the same guild would construct "super queues" and purposely q-sync to land on the same team, going so far as to leave the WZ if they didn't get their 8m premade. this practice disappeared long before JC merged into SF, so it had nothing to do with the ridiculous deserter debuff afaik.

 

as for the OP's example, that doesn't sound at all like a premade. in fact, usually the worst players in the game will stealth out in the end zone waiting for a pass because that's literally the only thing they CAN do to contribute to their team's win b/c they are otherwise inept and would be swept off the map. I say this, btw, as someone who is also inept on a sin and used to do just that in pick-up ranked WZ (or stealth guard a node where my only job was to call the alert and toss out a couple mezzes to stall a cap). my point is this, that stealth in the end zone = not some great hard core player. that sorc/sage pulling players up = doing what he's supposed to do.

 

FYI: the way you win at HB in the pit is to control the spawn. If you control spawn, then it doesn't matter what chain of pulls, passes, and stealths the other team has setup. they'll never possess the ball. that is why when the good pvpers who ignore objectives carry on their DMing at mid, it's still helpful in that particular map.

 

lastly, I totally agree with the OP about this GS crap forcing players to pvp, gsf, or run ops. make it a choice, or just create separate rewards systems for each one. but then ppl would prolly cry about not getting access to the other content's rewards, so...iunno. BW does this stuff very badly, but it's a thankless job no matter how they do it.

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More and more people posting on all GS threads have the opposing experience, OP. TOTR community in general is bit too..set in their ways let's say. It is great to have some more incentives to explore content that'd otherwise might remain untouched. GS does this quite well.

 

Clearly it isn't working out for you OP. But..imagine how awesome it is for those who do discover something new. Like....Let's take some 2 year TOR veteran who has always " hated pvp!!!". This person gets "forced" to do pvp due to GS..and surprises themselves by really liking it. Something just clicks! Think of what happens at this moment. Its like 10 years worth of pvp content patches just washed over them overnight. It literally amounts to a sudden, huge, free expansion to the game for them. When GS works as intended, it makes game much larger to people.

Edited by Stradlin
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lastly, I totally agree with the OP about this GS crap forcing players to pvp, gsf, or run ops. make it a choice, or just create separate rewards systems for each one. but then ppl would prolly cry about not getting access to the other content's rewards, so...iunno. BW does this stuff very badly, but it's a thankless job no matter how they do it.

 

Yup it's crap. Hate it.

It's like trying to get story Operations done using queue...doesn't work well.

 

But it seems to be the only aspect Chris is interested in, so he seems determined to cram it down people's throats. (In my opinion)

Edited by DragonSire
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Forcing people to do things they don't like is ruining it for people who like it too - that's my problem (I posted a suggestion to let us pick the kind of missions we want).

 

That being said, my team of randoms won their 3 matches today. And I actually had a blast. But the last two weeks I won maybe two matches total. I think it's really the luck of the draw (I'm not horrible at it, but I definitely don't have a pvp spec as I only do it for the dailies/weeklies when they pop up).

 

GSF though? UGH.

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Everything I had available today DAILY and WEEKLY was PvP !! EVERYTHING !!!

 

Oh well... that simplifies what we do tonight !!

 

Watch Giligan's Island !!! ( At least it's entertaining ... And I have hard copies of the entire series )

 

:eek::eek::eek:

 

What ... someone thought I'd get all worked up ??

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!

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I still hate PVP. But at least it is tolerable when compared to GS because the level of nonsense is so high it has become amusing. And it's not a 15min drag so even if it's bad, it ends fast.

 

Does Bioware really think letting clueless PvE players being humiliated by veteran PvP players in the arena will somehow make them fall in love with PvP? They should stop watching 50 shades of grey and think being a bad sadist is sexy.

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There is a lot more roflstomping going on for sure. But I have been on both sides of that. Same as with GSF really.

 

It doesn't bother me that much. Sometimes in PvP it is annoying if you want to win and your team is completely clueless.

 

In GSF however, I am thankful for all the newbs as I am trying to relearn it myself. This way I can actually land quite a few kills. And also muck up without feeling like a failure :p

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Now that I've gotten my Fleet apartment, I'm not as concerned about POs any more. So the good news is that PvP'ers (and GSF'ers) will no longer have their matches crippled by having to carry me through. 😉

(It was just 2 GSF and 1 unranked, anyway. 🤔 )

Hopefully, for your sake, as people reach their GS goals, fewer and fewer of us will queue up just to get GS points. 🙂

Edited by JediQuaker
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I genuinely loathe pvp with the hatred of a thousand suns. I'm so tired of mmo devs always trying to force people who only want to play pve into pvp and vice versa. I will not subject myself to this garbage and I just skip any pvp objectives.
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I genuinely loathe pvp with the hatred of a thousand suns. I'm so tired of mmo devs always trying to force people who only want to play pve into pvp and vice versa. I will not subject myself to this garbage and I just skip any pvp objectives.

 

/signed.

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I genuinely loathe pvp with the hatred of a thousand suns. I'm so tired of mmo devs always trying to force people who only want to play pve into pvp and vice versa. I will not subject myself to this garbage and I just skip any pvp objectives.

I think you are being unfair to the devs. Just because there is a PvP option, doesn't mean you 'have to' or are 'forced' to do it.

Also, don't you think that the PvP'ers and GSF'ers should have some GS PO that they like? Why should they be 'forced' to do PvE? 🤔

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I think you are being unfair to the devs. Just because there is a PvP option, doesn't mean you 'have to' or are 'forced' to do it.

Also, don't you think that the PvP'ers and GSF'ers should have some GS PO that they like? Why should they be 'forced' to do PvE? 🤔

 

A more sensible and logical solution would be to provide a better variety of BOTH rather than either or !

 

;)

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I think you are being unfair to the devs. Just because there is a PvP option, doesn't mean you 'have to' or are 'forced' to do it.

Also, don't you think that the PvP'ers and GSF'ers should have some GS PO that they like? Why should they be 'forced' to do PvE? 🤔

 

I think they are being plenty fair to the developers - and no, players who would rather do PVP or GSF should not be 'forced' to go kill bugs or complete heroics or whatever else may be considered PVE.

 

ALL players should be able to decide which activities to complete with their time in-game and get credit for seaons.

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its kinda weird that the objective is simply to "play" one warzone for the daily (or three for the weekly), it would most likely be a lot better if the objective was to WIN one (or three) warzones and help incentivize a better atmosphere in pvp

 

that said, i find it slightly entertaining that some people seem to be playing aspects of a game they don't like in a game that they pay for, remember you can just reroll or skip out on daily/weekly objectives you don't enjoy, there is plenty of days to hit lvl 100 even if you regularly skip stuff

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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Thing is, you're not wrong. We've seen this before, like in the first iteration of Galactic Command, where the Unassembled Components that allowed people to buy the same tokens that dropped in Operations. These were the gear-upgrade tokens that allowed people to buy the higher tiers of gear ahead of getting them in Command crates. Non-PvPers invaded "regs" (unranked), and the quality of matches went through the floor.

 

And then they fixed it so there were other ways of getting UCs, and it got better.

 

Well, until they added the 236 and 240 rated augments (with the release of the Copero flashpoint story segment), which were crafted, except that they required these two new materials, one of which dropped mostly from high-tier Operations, while the other dropped only from PvP. The quality of matches went through the floor again.

 

it's a bait & switch tactics to virtually "increase" pvp population. They keep doing this on a endless loop, RPM/OEM? Now we have access to it through sheer grinding, but Galactic Seasons kicked in at the same time. They'll keep doing this to show numbers for Suits, when in reality those numbers would really be shameful due to their incompetence on making the game better instead. They were supposed to instead focus into the game's core experience: Gameplay. Instead they keep baiting with Carrots, ruining the experience for the carrot hunters and the core players of each game-mode. There's just too much wrong with SWTOR right now, if I was in charge of listing them I'd be in trouble deciding where to begin with xD

 

Still like the game though, as I always say, tastes do not reflect quality.

Edited by xdjinn
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Chris recently posted on discord that more people are playing pvp. When asked if this was before or after GS started he admitted it was after. When asked what the numbers were like before GS started, he went quiet and didn’t answer.

 

So I believe you are right in saying it’s a bait and switch scenario. The same as they are making people try operations or making the flash points weekly only count if you random queue and not form your own group outside of the queue.

 

Bioware are trying to massage the numbers to upper management to show what they are doing in development is making people play group content again. But all they are really doing is hiding the fact that people are still leaving the game over their poor decisions over the last 12 months.

 

They’ve totally gutted any fun to be had playing lowbies pvp. They’ve made doing your daily and weekly pvp missions arduous with the win requirement and deserter lockout outs in regs. If GS wasn’t implement now, reg pvp would be dead by the end of the year.

 

People don’t like being forced to play content they dislike. Sure some will try new stuff when carrots are dangled, but unless Bioware fix the underlying problems of why they need the carrots in the first place, it’s a negative sum situation as more people leave because they don’t like being told what or how to play.

 

What happened to choice? Why do we need to play in group finder to have fun? I hate random groups and I refuse to use group finder to play flash points, uprisings or operations. My old guild has left the game over 2 years ago and I’ve no inclination to find new people to play operations with. Bioware have gutted the fun from reg pvp for me, so I don’t even want to play that.

 

We need more choices or the ability to reroll GS PO’s (more than once) if we get ones we can’t do or hate doing. We shouldn’t be pigeonholed into playing stuff we hate. There is zero fun to be had doing something you despise, regardless of how good the carrot is, you start to hate the game because it’s become a job and not entertainment or relaxation.

Until Bioware realise that, more people will leave.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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.

 

In GSF however, I am thankful for all the newbs as I am trying to relearn it myself. This way I can actually land quite a few kills. And also muck up without feeling like a failure :p

 

This is exactly how I feel about ground pvp. All of PvP in TOR has been all GSF for me for a long time now. So I've unlearned all I knew about ground pvp. It is great to run around there surrounded by fellow noobs who are just about as clueless as I am. - > It is a very good moment to try GSF or PvP if you are new to either or both, tons of new peopåle learning the ropes.

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Bioware are trying to massage the numbers to upper management to show what they are doing in development is making people play group content again. But all they are really doing is hiding the fact that

 

.

 

I think it is more simple than that. All pvp content, (and all grp content to smaller degree) stands repetition extrmely well. This stuff has crazy amount of longevity when compared to story content. Besides, story content comes with utterly hardcore production costs with 16 main VAs and all of that. Making new GSF or WZ maps costs shoestrings and cold hamburgers by comparsion. So the more people end up liking stuff such as GSF and ground PvP, better and easier it is for devs. Judging by all that has happened after KOTET, it seems they can't keep popping new sotry content in acceptable quantities. Can't blame em, it is expensive and difficult to afford all of those VAs and whatnot. Seems price tag in post Anthem world is extremely high in relation to manpower and money left.

 

Meanwhile, those who enjoy GSF and grouns PvP enough are always a pop away from content that feels pretty fresh.

Edited by Stradlin
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