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Premades are hurting pvp participation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are hurting pvp participation

bladech's Avatar


bladech
12.23.2021 , 10:57 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
But how did they ruin group ranked so much that people don’t play it? Seriously, if group is the preferred method of pvp by the ranked community, why don’t people play it?
Reasons why it happened doesn't matter. IT is a fact. First of all, you need to understand that even when team ranked was alive - premades still were out in unranked. Most of premades you see in unranked aren't formed of RANKED players. They are same unranked players who decided for whatever reasons (new lockout sanction, bad queue, just for fun) to queue together. If you are interested why team ranked died there are many threads and posts revealing the reason - https://www.swtor.com/community/show...=980799&page=3
https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=969345
https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=974660

short answer: the chain of bad teams>learning teams>decent teams>top teams was ruined by removing mats from team ranked AND providing "only-win quests". These two factors resulted into stagnation of team ranked. Bring back same quest system we had in seasons 9-10 and i guarantee that team ranked will be revived.

YEt, once again - even when team ranked was active and alive, unranked still had tonnes of active premade groups. Death of team ranked brought in only few additional groups to it....
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septru's Avatar


septru
12.23.2021 , 06:59 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
No offense i hope but I feel like this is a little bit of a copout.
If all the people that wanted to or should be doing group queue, actually queued, this wouldn't be the case.
There are multiple groups in regs every night, if they shifted to ranked, feels a little like problem solved? You might get that monster group every few matches but hoesntly how is that any different than those groups obliterating regs?
Not quite sure what you mean by copout? Which part?

There are a lot of people that group to play with their friends, but there are also a lot of people that would otherwise typically lose in regs that group so that they can dominate. This is where I agree with you and TrixxieTriss.

My point has been, and always will be, that the response to getting dominated by premades shouldn't to be whine about it, but to make your own premade. Because 1) premades encourage group play 2) group play provides a space to learn and ask for tips from your teammates 3) (and this is more a BioWare argument than anything else) players that have friends in the game are more likely to continue paying their sub.

TrixxieTriss argues that people shouldn't be forced to group up to have a fair chance of competing, which I fundamentally disagree with for the above reasons. They (she?) also argue that the lack of population in group ranked is indicative of how players are by nature "not social." Moreover, they argue that since ranked has two formats, so should regs. My comments about group ranked were meant to demonstrate that the assertions they make about ranked are incorrect and on the whole irrelevent.
-Prum

bladech's Avatar


bladech
12.23.2021 , 07:42 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
Not quite sure what you mean by copout? Which part?

There are a lot of people that group to play with their friends, but there are also a lot of people that would otherwise typically lose in regs that group so that they can dominate. This is where I agree with you and TrixxieTriss.

My point has been, and always will be, that the response to getting dominated by premades shouldn't to be whine about it, but to make your own premade. Because 1) premades encourage group play 2) group play provides a space to learn and ask for tips from your teammates 3) (and this is more a BioWare argument than anything else) players that have friends in the game are more likely to continue paying their sub.

TrixxieTriss argues that people shouldn't be forced to group up to have a fair chance of competing, which I fundamentally disagree with for the above reasons. They (she?) also argue that the lack of population in group ranked is indicative of how players are by nature "not social." Moreover, they argue that since ranked has two formats, so should regs. My comments about group ranked were meant to demonstrate that the assertions they make about ranked are incorrect and on the whole irrelevent.
Instead of commenting eternal premade cries better help me to figure out this matter - https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=999923

thanks
Supporting my threads or comments? You like pvp? Click on my link to help my get some goodies

http://www.swtor.com/r/QKZXBf

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
12.23.2021 , 08:36 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
Not quite sure what you mean by copout? Which part?

There are a lot of people that group to play with their friends, but there are also a lot of people that would otherwise typically lose in regs that group so that they can dominate. This is where I agree with you and TrixxieTriss.

My point has been, and always will be, that the response to getting dominated by premades shouldn't to be whine about it, but to make your own premade. Because 1) premades encourage group play 2) group play provides a space to learn and ask for tips from your teammates 3) (and this is more a BioWare argument than anything else) players that have friends in the game are more likely to continue paying their sub.

TrixxieTriss argues that people shouldn't be forced to group up to have a fair chance of competing, which I fundamentally disagree with for the above reasons. They (she?) also argue that the lack of population in group ranked is indicative of how players are by nature "not social." Moreover, they argue that since ranked has two formats, so should regs. My comments about group ranked were meant to demonstrate that the assertions they make about ranked are incorrect and on the whole irrelevent.
Actually the gist of my whole argument is BioWare need to fix regs so that it’s a more balanced and fair experience for the masses. While ever it is so totally unbalanced and unfair, less people will play it. I referenced the rank system to show the inconsistencies between BioWares approach to regs and ranked.

If the matchmaking worked better and balanced the team compositions with premades and player skills properly, then having premades mixed in with solos wouldn’t be as big a deal (how it wasn’t in the past). Like you and I have both said in this exact thread, the issue is the matchmaking system and lack of population.

Sadly, we all know BioWare can’t improve the population drastically. They might get a small bump with the expansion of 7.2 patch. But we know ChrisS’s statements about improving population is a pipe dream. It will never happen because BioWare don’t have the right mind set or the right people or enough money/resources to make it happen.

Which means matchmaking will never work as well as it should or could. And when you add premades to the mix, the matchmaking literally breaks because there just aren’t enough people in the queue at anyone time to balance out premades vs solo teams.

Add all the other problems that the “whole of pvp” has and it makes less people wanting to play it and that is why regs is such a s**t show and why pvp as a whole is dying in this game.

We need to stop arguing about why we shouldn’t change somethings if it means that we get more player participation. At the moment everyone is transfixed on telling solo players to make groups and solo players are saying they shouldn’t have to premade to have an enjoyable pvp experience. Both points are relevant.

Sadly, this game doesn’t cater to both points of view because BioWare are unwilling to compromise. It’s BioWares lack of vision and absolute dumb arse decision making over the years that have led to this situation. Half of which were pointed out by me and others at the time and predicted this very scenario would happen.

Getting rid of pvp gear and comms killed the Lowbie brackets entirely. That is where people should be learning to pvp, but they don’t because BioWare made it so unappealing to play lowbies. So you have people trying to learn pvp at max level.
Myself and others saw what this would do to pvp in general and wrote many threads and posts with ideas to reinvigorate lowbies. BioWare of course totally ignored it.

Just about everything myself of others have suggested to BioWare over the years on how to improve the pvp echo system and regs has also be derided by the ranked community to the point of telling BioWare and every non ranked player that regs and any non ranked pvp, doesn’t matter. Sadly, BioWare chose to listen to the ranked community and now the rest of pvp is a s**t show. Players also stopped caring along the way and stopped trying to play properly or get better.

The only way to move forward is for BioWare and some elite players to stop being so rigid in their thinking when it comes to pvp outside of ranked. That means the time of 4 man premades vs full pug teams has run its course. The matchmaking can’t support it and neither can the game population. If you want pvp to continue for much longer, somethings have got to change.

XYouMadBroX's Avatar


XYouMadBroX
12.28.2021 , 04:28 PM | #95
ngl this game is on its way out. Its completely stale and the devs only efforts are going into making a new character creation screen and other mindless low effort>short term reward corporate think dev game development tactics is gona maybe earn them a few thousand bucks in Cartel Market sales then these new players are gona be back out the door once they hit max level and get bored. Maybe its just because there is an expansion near but I have never seen regs so dead. When ranked is popping faster at night then you know there is a problem and I can see why people don't wana queue. Your average SWTOR pvp player doesn't like actual PvP. They get no satisfaction out of destroying other players but what does tickle their fancy is that "Victory" screen after successfully juggling Giradda's big sweaty Huttballs across the map. Even if that victory screen is associated with themselves being absolutrly murdered and spending half the match running back mid from spawn. The Victory screen gives them the same adrenaline spike one who actually can put out numbers or take on multiple players at a time by themselves might get. Now why are there less people queueing? Well given the fact that the average SWTOR player who pvp's hates pvp now they are no longer able to finish the dailies or weeklies in a reasonable time they just stop queueing. They see no Victory screen and those grey loot boxes are a slap in the face to anyone who cares about that stuff. Personally I just vendor them or delete them. I have unlimited stacks of WZ adrenals/medpacks and don't have the time to nor desire to open them. Now look at rank. You lose rank you get a blue lootbox. Weekly gives you a gold one and wins give you a purple. You basically get more from losing rank then you get from winning a regs or losing like 50 regs because the grey lootbox has nothing in it. When did devs get so fixated on all this lootbox casino nonsense with the galactic renown bar and this weird left side drop down menu that shows me there is a cash shop and ridiculous and useless login rewards. What is this game that used to be SWTOR lol....God I cannot wait for February. NEW MMO TIME FINALLY BABY. Its obvious that this is no the game I remember and its also obvious the devs dont care. Like I have been ranting about before they removed the suggestion box because they got tired of reading it. Now we have a pvp forum echo chamber where devs who are most likely much too busy plotting the next weird UI change to sneak in some more images of cartel market clickables to engage the playerbase on said forums.

TmoneyTime's Avatar


TmoneyTime
12.28.2021 , 06:11 PM | #96
Uhhh..... The average time it takes to finish the weekly is about 4 hours give or take depending on RNG or how sweaty your playing. Honestly I usually finish it in about 2-3 hours queuing solo. (If you don't believe I stream on twitch every now and then.)

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
12.28.2021 , 10:35 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by XYouMadBroX View Post
ngl this game is on its way out. Its completely stale and the devs only efforts are going into making a new character creation screen and other mindless low effort>short term reward corporate think dev game development tactics is gona maybe earn them a few thousand bucks in Cartel Market sales then these new players are gona be back out the door once they hit max level and get bored. Maybe its just because there is an expansion near but I have never seen regs so dead. When ranked is popping faster at night then you know there is a problem and I can see why people don't wana queue. Your average SWTOR pvp player doesn't like actual PvP. They get no satisfaction out of destroying other players but what does tickle their fancy is that "Victory" screen after successfully juggling Giradda's big sweaty Huttballs across the map. Even if that victory screen is associated with themselves being absolutrly murdered and spending half the match running back mid from spawn. The Victory screen gives them the same adrenaline spike one who actually can put out numbers or take on multiple players at a time by themselves might get. Now why are there less people queueing? Well given the fact that the average SWTOR player who pvp's hates pvp now they are no longer able to finish the dailies or weeklies in a reasonable time they just stop queueing. They see no Victory screen and those grey loot boxes are a slap in the face to anyone who cares about that stuff. Personally I just vendor them or delete them. I have unlimited stacks of WZ adrenals/medpacks and don't have the time to nor desire to open them. Now look at rank. You lose rank you get a blue lootbox. Weekly gives you a gold one and wins give you a purple. You basically get more from losing rank then you get from winning a regs or losing like 50 regs because the grey lootbox has nothing in it. When did devs get so fixated on all this lootbox casino nonsense with the galactic renown bar and this weird left side drop down menu that shows me there is a cash shop and ridiculous and useless login rewards. What is this game that used to be SWTOR lol....God I cannot wait for February. NEW MMO TIME FINALLY BABY. Its obvious that this is no the game I remember and its also obvious the devs dont care. Like I have been ranting about before they removed the suggestion box because they got tired of reading it. Now we have a pvp forum echo chamber where devs who are most likely much too busy plotting the next weird UI change to sneak in some more images of cartel market clickables to engage the playerbase on said forums.
You aren't far from the truth.

I took a serious brake from ranked this summer -autumn and for a few months from the game too . Coming back, I stopped doing regular PVP because it's so terrible . Farming players isn't fun , getting LAGBALL and Voidstar pops isn't fun either . By the way, the Ques garbage pit map is so bugged and dsynced again .

So ranked is the way to go. More challenging and frustrating at the same time, but worthwhile,despite it's flaws. You can buy nice gear, while in regs you get nothing.
Darth Malgus Server
Delusional Marauder Main

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
12.28.2021 , 11:23 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by TmoneyTime View Post
Uhhh..... The average time it takes to finish the weekly is about 4 hours give or take depending on RNG or how sweaty your playing. Honestly I usually finish it in about 2-3 hours queuing solo. (If you don't believe I stream on twitch every now and then.)

That’s totally dependent on 1) what server you are on 2) what time you play 3) wether you get good RNG matchmaking 4) wether it’s premades vs solos.

Your experience or even my experience isn’t the same as the next players. You only need to read all the social media on different sites or apps to realise what you describe isn’t the norm for the majority of those posting on the web.

Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
12.30.2021 , 09:49 PM | #99
I have not been in a premade since the great <Choatic Pixels> was around. I don't guild, it pointless, pvp guilds are a joke now. I win all the time though. This argument is old, crusty, and dumb.
Tyranticus - Ty'zor - Maullin - Clandestu - Pepe'nero

The Elite Warlord Club - The PVP FAB FIVE

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
12.31.2021 , 12:41 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Nickodemous View Post
I have not been in a premade since the great <Choatic Pixels> was around. I don't guild, it pointless, pvp guilds are a joke now. I win all the time though. This argument is old, crusty, and dumb.
Let me requote my last post in response

Quote:
That’s totally dependent on 1) what server you are on 2) what time you play 3) wether you get good RNG matchmaking 4) wether it’s premades vs solos.