I'll say it Or at least part of it. GSF is the only content in Swtor that requires aim. And a lot of pilots couldn't aim even if they had an aim bot. This is what sets GSF apart from anything else. It's amazing how many accomplished ground pvpers come into GSF and suck once they need to add aiming into the management of a complex range of abilities. Ground PVP has an equally complex range of abilities to understand and execute at the right time. Like recognizing all the different reflection ability animations from the all the different classes, seeing it quick enough, and not feeding it. For sure, its complexity is equal to that of GSF. But add in that aim factor, and most ground PVPers fall apart.

 

And this is why hacks don't make someone good at GSF.

I think the issue here is that one person is familiar with seeing cheats actively been used when the other person has not but has regularly been accused of said cheating.

As someone who spent countless hours in counterstrike, aim bot does not work the way you think it does Luc. If an aimbot existed specifically for gsf, it would typically either be blatantly obvious or virtually impossible to differentiate. When a player made no effort to hide their cheats, spectating their screen would be instant proof as they would move well beyond normal speed (in for a penny in for a pound running multiple hacks) and literally could just spin around and hold the fire button and hit targets because it literally did the aiming for you. When a player made a conscious effort to hide it, they would avoid doing anything that they knew was not "normal", and it be ambiguous - like were they watching a spot because they could see through the wall or because it was a place you could often expect to find someone.

Ground pvp is a different dynamic - teamwork is much more important. Taking massive level gaps out of the equation, crowd control and healing go a long way to dictate who ends up the victor. Skill is still a factor but the swing isn't as extreme as it can be in GSF.

Also, ground pvp is effectively a variation of pve, so all players develop experience (to varying degrees) naturally. GSF is entirely separate, so a seasoned pvper or even a nim raider will have gained no advantage as nothing from their working experience applies to gsf.

I agree that cheating in GSF is rare --- mainly because its been such an unpopular mode. But I have seen people actually cheat in it. When it does happen its effectively been movement based (aside from terrain exploits ala lost shipyards).

As far as the quick capping goes --- its hard not to write off a newer user's experience given their unfamiliarity with tensor scouts and load in times. But it's also possible they were completely correct in their assessment of that experience too.

As someone who spent countless hours in counterstrike, aim bot does not work the way you think it does Luc..

Can I introduce you to a concept known as sarcasm?

Can I introduce you to a concept known as sarcasm?

It didn't seem to apply given what you wrote and your perception of why ground pvp doesn't translate to gsf.

The only times people have ever brought up aimbotting on a relatively regular basis was before 5.5 when evasion stacking was a thing and disbelief of getting hit through stacked evasion with distortion field.

One of the worst aspects of GSF is that the guns don't fire at a fixed point (as in dead center only) and the accuracy penalties with the firing arc make it difficult for most people to understand why they miss when lined up and in range. You can see a reflection of that in the scoreboards daily just by looking at the damage numbers. For the longest time, the firing arc was the concept I least understood even when I had started to be able to net 20+ kills.

And lastly, its naturally implied that hacks don't make players better regardless of the game --- however I have read that some hacks did actually improve the aim for some of the people that used them --- because they were able to see the exact dimensions of the hitboxes that knowledge helped them to improve their natural aim. However, CS 1.6 was years ago and I have no idea where I read that or how "legitimate" the claim was.

It didn't seem to apply given what you wrote and your perception of why ground pvp doesn't translate to gsf.

Allow me to explain then. Some people are so bad at GSF that they would still miss even if they had an aim bot, which couldn't miss. #sarcasm.

Interesting, because I have recorded several self destructors throwing games, and sent the videos directly to the Devs using the customer service tab, and had no action against me. I don't doubt your word on this. But they didn't sanction me. Perhaps they changed their approach?

You can do what you did because you sent it directly to them. It’s only a TOS violation if you post it on the forums.

 

One of the worst aspects of GSF is that the guns don't fire at a fixed point (as in dead center only) and the accuracy penalties with the firing arc make it difficult for most people to understand why they miss when lined up and in range. You can see a reflection of that in the scoreboards daily just by looking at the damage numbers. For the longest time, the firing arc was the concept I least understood even when I had started to be able to net 20+ kills.

Just on this, are you confirming the round red receptacle isn’t where we should be aiming? I’ve played a lot of flight sim in my years, especially ww1, ww2 games and I know from them that I can lead my gun sight a little ahead of them and the enemy will fly through my bullets. I’m assuming it’s something similar in GSF with a main weapon like a Rapid fire laser. I obviously don’t do it too much with secondary weapons on Gunships unless the enemy is moving really fast.

I know in some matches my aim is around 30-40% and other matches it’s as low as 9%. If there’s a secret to be learnt, please tell

Just on this, are you confirming the round red receptacle isn’t where we should be aiming? I’ve played a lot of flight sim in my years, especially ww1, ww2 games and I know from them that I can lead my gun sight a little ahead of them and the enemy will fly through my bullets. I’m assuming it’s something similar in GSF with a main weapon like a Rapid fire laser. I obviously don’t do it too much with secondary weapons on Gunships unless the enemy is moving really fast.

I know in some matches my aim is around 30-40% and other matches it’s as low as 9%. If there’s a secret to be learnt, please tell

No I think what Roland is talking about is something called Tracking Penalty. As you've flown, you have probably noticed that you can move your targeting reticule around within the borders of two circles. The outer circle is your primary weapon firing arc and the inner one is for your secondaries ... generally your ordnance like missiles and torpedoes. The targeting reticule is where your shots will land, if they actually hit the target. You can move your targeting reticule with your mouse quite a bit before your ship actually starts pitching and yawing* in that direction.

*

The further away that your targeting reticle is from the center of the circle that represents your firing arc, the more of a penalty to your accuracy you get. So, shots that are fired at the extremes of your firing arc are less likely to hit, even at close range from the target.

This tracking penalty varies between primary weapons, and some weapons have component upgrades that can reduce it. If both you and the target are in motion, then you do have to "lead" the target a bit just like you would in a real life flight simulator, because GSF uses the same sort of flight physics that Lucas did for Star Wars, which was based off WWII dogfighting. However, if you are leading your target too much, or the target is turning at a faster rate than you are, then your reticle may be at the edges of your firing arc, and therefore you will have less of a chance to hit them. The solution is to roll your ship, so that the enemy is oriented in the vertical axis relative to you, because your ship pitches faster than it yaws. In some ways, this again is similar to a real life aircraft because aircraft have to roll in order to actually turn left or right, but starfighters have thrusters that allow it to also yaw. Also, you turn faster at less throttle, so I try to get into the habit of of rolling and holding down S to maximize my turning rate, when I'm in a dogfight. And, unless I'm using light lasers or burst lasers, I typically save my weapon energy until the target is closer to the center of my firing arc.

Most engines have a choice of tier 3 upgrade between speed and turning, so you can enhance your turning that way. Some starfighters have thrusters as a minor component option, and you can opt to take Turning Thrusters to enhance your turning rate as well. Lastly, Qyzen Fess on the Republic Side and Jaesa Wilsaam on the Imperial side have the offensive crew skill passive "Improve Kill Zone" which increases your firing arc by 2 degrees, which widens the diameter of the circle of all your firing arcs.

Just on this, are you confirming the round red receptacle isn’t where we should be aiming? I’ve played a lot of flight sim in my years, especially ww1, ww2 games and I know from them that I can lead my gun sight a little ahead of them and the enemy will fly through my bullets. I’m assuming it’s something similar in GSF with a main weapon like a Rapid fire laser. I obviously don’t do it too much with secondary weapons on Gunships unless the enemy is moving really fast.

I know in some matches my aim is around 30-40% and other matches it’s as low as 9%. If there’s a secret to be learnt, please tell

There are two parts to this. Plus extra details.

The firing arc circles. You want your mouse cursor to be as close to the center as possible when you click to fire so that you don't incur tracking penalties (some weapons go over a 30% penalty to hit at the edge of a circle). These are the stationary light blue/white circles in front of your ship.

The red lead computing reticle. For cannons and rocket pods you want your mouse to be over the lead reticle or you won't hit at all. So two things need to be centered, lead reticle in firing arcs, and mouse over lead reticle. If mouse is over lead reticle but lead reticle is not centerered you get tracking penalties. If mouse is not over lead reticle you just miss, period. Also if the lead reticle is gray you are out of range of your primary weapons and all shots from them will miss no matter how well things are lined up.

Missiles are different, the targeted SHIP, not the the lead reticle, needs to be inside the missile's firing arc circle. There are no tracking penalties, so it doesn't matter where in the circle you are. Important to know which circle is for your guns and which is for your missiles (usually missiles are the smaller one).

Railguns are also different. You need to line up on the ship, and the ship needs to be centered in the firing arc circle to avoid tracking penalties. There is no lead reticle when in railgun view.

There are two parts to this. Plus extra details.

 

The firing arc circles. You want your mouse cursor to be as close to the center as possible when you click to fire so that you don't incur tracking penalties (some weapons go over a 30% penalty to hit at the edge of a circle). These are the stationary light blue/white circles in front of your ship.

 

The red lead computing reticle. For cannons and rocket pods you want your mouse to be over the lead reticle or you won't hit at all. So two things need to be centered, lead reticle in firing arcs, and mouse over lead reticle. If mouse is over lead reticle but lead reticle is not centerered you get tracking penalties. If mouse is not over lead reticle you just miss, period. Also if the lead reticle is gray you are out of range of your primary weapons and all shots from them will miss no matter how well things are lined up.

 

Missiles are different, the targeted SHIP, not the the lead reticle, needs to be inside the missile's firing arc circle. There are no tracking penalties, so it doesn't matter where in the circle you are. Important to know which circle is for your guns and which is for your missiles (usually missiles are the smaller one).

 

Railguns are also different. You need to line up on the ship, and the ship needs to be centered in the firing arc circle to avoid tracking penalties. There is no lead reticle when in railgun view.

This is an excellent explanation. As clear as can be I think, at least in text form. I saw this question from Trix and was just thinking, has anyone ever made a video demonstrating how to aim and showing all the things you talk about in this explanation Ramalina? My first thought was to check Drakolich's channel, but there's nothing there. Only an explanation of how to aim rail guns as part of his Q&A video, but nothing for primaries.

In the old x-wing or tie fighter games (circa win95) your blasters fired at the same point every time -- you would still see a lead reticle for moving targets to indicate where to aim, but you literally had to point the center of your ship at the target.

In gsf the guns articulate and can fire beyond dead center at an increasing accuracy penalty the farther away from center.

As the cone in the image above shows --- it expands as it reaches maximum range then flattens out -- the "bottom" or flat piece of the cone is maximum range. Notice it gets wider as it approaches maximum range. The closer you are to a target, the smaller your effective cone -- so a target 500m away a bit off center from you can be outside your effective firing arc but if you were to go backwards in a straight line away from that same target while maintaining the exact angle on that target it would now be within your firing arc.

For example, a proton torpedo is very hard to keep locked up close because your firing arc cone is much smaller the closer to your ship. At near max range, its far easier to maintain a lock because its both easier to follow a moving target in the bigger cone and because that cone is much bigger its harder to break without resorting to a missile break or breaking line of sight.

Blasters are basically the same -- with some exceptions, mainly burst laser cannon. It's easier to get a target closer to center the closer they are to your maximum effective range. BLC on the other hand gets less accurate the farther out you go but at the same time allows you to hit targets aiming farther off center than you could with any of the other lasers.

However if you look at the tooltips -- all blasters lose accuracy as you get closer to their max range. The irony is that the closer you are the smaller that effective cone becomes. For example, its a lot easier to line up a target with heavy blasters from 6k range than it is 3k, at least if they're moving.

 

In the old x-wing or tie fighter games (circa win95) your blasters fired at the same point every time -- you would still see a lead reticle for moving targets to indicate where to aim, but you literally had to point the center of your ship at the target.

 

In gsf the guns articulate and can fire beyond dead center at an increasing accuracy penalty the farther away from center.

 

As the cone in the image above shows --- it expands as it reaches maximum range then flattens out -- the "bottom" or flat piece of the cone is maximum range. Notice it gets wider as it approaches maximum range. The closer you are to a target, the smaller your effective cone -- so a target 500m away a bit off center from you can be outside your effective firing arc but if you were to go backwards in a straight line away from that same target while maintaining the exact angle on that target it would now be within your firing arc.

 

For example, a proton torpedo is very hard to keep locked up close because your firing arc cone is much smaller the closer to your ship. At near max range, its far easier to maintain a lock because its both easier to follow a moving target in the bigger cone and because that cone is much bigger its harder to break without resorting to a missile break or breaking line of sight.

 

Blasters are basically the same -- with some exceptions, mainly burst laser cannon. It's easier to get a target closer to center the closer they are to your maximum effective range. BLC on the other hand gets less accurate the farther out you go but at the same time allows you to hit targets aiming farther off center than you could with any of the other lasers.

 

However if you look at the tooltips -- all blasters lose accuracy as you get closer to their max range. The irony is that the closer you are the smaller that effective cone becomes. For example, its a lot easier to line up a target with heavy blasters from 6k range than it is 3k, at least if they're moving.

Great explanation. I would like to add for anyone new reading this, that the origin point of all lasers is the rear of your ship. Not the front, as the animation would appear to show. This, combined with the super wide arc of BLC, tracking penalty reduction, and buffs like TT or Wingman, is what allows accomplished Tier 2 Scout pilots to make "impossible" shots like this.

https://imgur.com/WOHVmX4 (Yes I made a Imgur account finally)

The two ships here are passing each other at such a speed that the actual moment of impact of your lasers, and the moment the fly text appear - as far as the animation is concerned - all happen off screen. It is actually possible to shoot a ship that is right next to you, but is animation wise, behind you. And this is because of the origin point of your lasers being the rear of the ship. This is something that all accomplished Battle Scout pilots learn to do. I believe if more people understood what enables it to be possible, more people would be able to do it (after some practice).

This is an excellent explanation. As clear as can be I think, at least in text form. I saw this question from Trix and was just thinking, has anyone ever made a video demonstrating how to aim and showing all the things you talk about in this explanation Ramalina? My first thought was to check Drakolich's channel, but there's nothing there. Only an explanation of how to aim rail guns as part of his Q&A video, but nothing for primaries.

You need, GSF School

Specifically, Weapons 101.

It's part of the very excellent Basic Training playlist.

You need, GSF School

 

Specifically, Weapons 101.

 

 

It's part of the very excellent Basic Training playlist.

Of course. Why didn't I think of that, well done. That will be great for Trixie.

You need, GSF School

 

Specifically, Weapons 101.

 

 

It's part of the very excellent Basic Training playlist.

Thanks.

They should rename GSF TOP Gun School

Thanks.

 

They should rename GSF TOP Gun School

The instructional videos in GSF school are pretty much all pre5.5 I think, which was when the big GSF patch happened. Short version, Strikes were rubbish and no one flew them, which is why you see Despon (creator of GSF school) not flying Strkes in any of the videos. But, all the principles and tips still apply.

What’s the average to great percentage on aim for the different ship types.

What I mean by that is, at the end of the match I see a big variety of percentages from people who do lots of damage. The higher averages are around 50% and the lower averages are around 20%. I know much of this is player skills, but is some based on type of ships too. Ie, if you use a bomber and your mines don’t hit anyone, does that lower your percentage.

I’ve also seen 2 people thus far with 73% hit rate, high damage, but not many shots (less than 30). So I’m assuming they were Gun Ship players who were spec’d to one shot under geared/spec’d ships. But that’s a guess cause the scoreboard doesn’t break down ship type.

What’s the average to great percentage on aim for the different ship types.

 

What I mean by that is, at the end of the match I see a big variety of percentages from people who do lots of damage. The higher averages are around 50% and the lower averages are around 20%.

My own averages:

Starguard: 56%

Flashfire (with BLC/pods): 53%

Quarrel: 72%

Warcarrier: 47%

Those are okay representations of what I would consider to be decent for each ship class with some caveats and we'll get to those in a moment. With the exception of my Warcarrier average. That's trash for me and should be closer to my Starguard average, but I only rarely get to play support and tend to play carelessly when I do just to have fun.

Subtract about 20% from each for what I would consider average for someone who at least has a general idea of what they're doing without a lot of experience yet.

I know much of this is player skills, but is some based on type of ships too. Ie, if you use a bomber and your mines don’t hit anyone, does that lower your percentage.

Weapon accuracy is more dependent on the weapon you're using than the ship. Rocket pods, for example, have a fairly narrow arc and will tend to lower your accuracy score.

Missiles (and mines, iirc) count as a hit when launched and so do not bring your accuracy down, even if they don't hit anyone.

I’ve also seen 2 people thus far with 73% hit rate, high damage, but not many shots (less than 30). So I’m assuming they were Gun Ship players who were spec’d to one shot under geared/spec’d ships. But that’s a guess cause the scoreboard doesn’t break down ship type.

As mentioned above, my average accuracy in a gunship is 72%. You're correct in assuming that high damage with few shots is indicative of a railgun, but that's about all it indicates.

One shots (whether "geared/spec'd" or not) are exceedingly rare outside of two conditions: you land a proton torpedo on a scout, or you have damage overcharge and a hard hitting weapon that either does enough damage to overwhelm shields (slug rail) or ignores them (proton torpedo, again). It's possible to one shot a stock Novadive/Blackbolt with a slug crit I think but it almost never happens.

If you don't know what ship the top scoring players were in, it might be worth paying a bit more attention to who is getting kills during a game, if only so you know where they are and what they're in. This can help you avoid being their next point.

Nothing to add here really, Sriia has covered it all. Just to corroborate what she says about accuracy. Those are figures I would expect to see from any Ace.

In a recent try-hard 100 game effort, the overall accuracy (after completing the 100 games) for my primary 3 ships was:

Starguard (Strike Fighter - Heavy lasers and Quads) = 50%

Flashfire (Scout - Burst Laser Cannon and Rocket pods) = 52.08%

Quarrel (Gunship - 2x rail guns and Burst Laser Canon) = 72.67%

If you're shooting in the 40% range (overall averages - not one game) in Strike and Scout, you're pretty good. Aces tend to go higher as you see. If you're in the 30% range or lower, you need to do some work.

Its certainly possible to get much higher accuracy figures if you focus on it. For example I have a tendency to release a rail gun shot that I know is going to miss, rather than cancel it. A bad habit I am working on, and the more you only shoot when you are confident of hitting, the higher it will get. IF you get really focused on accuracy you can do things that most pilots would be dead certain (and wrong) is an aim bot. Yui for example did 100% accuracy in a Gunship, and Invis did 99% in a Scout. But you wouldn't pull those figures in a close fought match. They just did it for fun.

To quote Flux, Accuracy > Damage > Kills. Work on your accuracy first and foremost. With that will come more damage. With more damage will come more kills. 80% of your damage should be coming from lasers (except Gunships), so the faster you get yourself out of the mentality of leading with locking missiles, and rather focus on your proficiency with lasers, the faster you will get good.

I've been seeing a lot more , hopping, jumping, etc in GSF lately, at least 1 in every 3 matches. Also I've seen a couple of matches where people apprear to be inside structures. on one particular match, a couple of us, went around the whole structure, and couldn't see the person, yet he/she was able to launch mines, etc, which kep blowing people up.

I've also seen another bomber hiding, and what looks like using a macro to keep launching mines to keep people away.

What’s the average to great percentage on aim for the different ship types.

 

What I mean by that is, at the end of the match I see a big variety of percentages from people who do lots of damage. The higher averages are around 50% and the lower averages are around 20%. I know much of this is player skills, but is some based on type of ships too. Ie, if you use a bomber and your mines don’t hit anyone, does that lower your percentage.

It's almost more a matter of weapon type than ship type. Different builds of the same ship can have significantly different accuracy rates at about the same level of skill. Pilot style also plays into it.

In general, for lasers and rocket pods, you'd be looking for at least 25% accuracy. You need a general level of competence to get to that point, and below that level having a good solid game gets really difficult because you just won't do enough damage, even if you're playing fairly hard-core support builds in a support role where giving up some damage is ok. If you can bring that up to 35% and you're smart about how you use that 35% then you'll probably be in the top quarter of the scoreboard in the vast majority of games.

A more weapon specific breakdown:

Lock on missiles: 100% If you fire them they count as hits.

Railguns: 60% is minimum competence, great gunship pilots will routinely run 70-85%.

Burst Laser Cannons: Try for at least 40% with these, an excellent game will be mid 50s to low 70s for ace level play.

Pretty much everything else: Aim for at least 35%, and be really pleased with yourself if you get 50% or above.

There's a general trend here. The slower the weapon fires, the higher the accuracy should be.

I’ve also seen 2 people thus far with 73% hit rate, high damage, but not many shots (less than 30). So I’m assuming they were Gun Ship players who were spec’d to one shot under geared/spec’d ships. But that’s a guess cause the scoreboard doesn’t break down ship type.

In general if an accuracy rate is above say 65% it's probably a gunship, though a top end scout with a BLC + Clusters build is also possible, or in a domination game possibly someone shooting turrets and not much else.

Aside from basic gunnery mechanics (center reticle in arc, center mouse over reticle) there are some other things that can make a big difference in accuracy.

• Using Wingman crew ability.
  
• Using Pinpointing 6% accuracy crew passive.
  
• Being patient and looking for "good" shot opportunities (people concentrating on shooting someone else are ideal targets)
  
• Being at "medium" range or closer (3 km) before shooting for most lasers (range capacitors can move this mark out a bit, and Heavy Lasers are tuned to be more or less exempt from long range penalties).
  
• In a in a gunship railgun swapping. Ion Rail 40% slow upgrade, and Plasma Rail -10% evasion debuff both make follow up Slug shots easier to land. Also scroll out the view so the relative motion of the target across your screen is a tiny bit slower.
  
• Watch target buffs and debuffs. If someone just popped distortion field, it might not be a great time to shoot at them. Same for Running Interference crew ability.
  

Also keep in mind that accuracy is means to an end: using your ship's resources to do damage efficiently. There are times when efficiency might not be the highest priority, and it makes sense to take a low odds shot. Say for example you have 2 seconds left on a DO, and the only target in range is a skilled scout that just popped distortion. Sure you might miss, but if you hit with DO the scout is dead. Take the shot because you don't have time on the DO to wait out the distortion. Being as accurate as you can is the general rule, but know when to break it.

You need, GSF School

 

Specifically, Weapons 101.

 

 

It's part of the very excellent Basic Training playlist.

I noticed other links at the bottom of the GSF school YouTube page. I want ask a question about the one by Plasticx. In his video

The reason I ask is I’m trying to teach my wife to keybind and it would be easier if she could see the keys on the screen instead of looking at the keyboard.

I noticed other links at the bottom of the GSF school YouTube page. I want ask a question about the one by Plasticx. In his video

he uses a key overlay of certain keyboard keys on the left side. I’m wondering what that is and can we legitimately use it in GSF.

 

The reason I ask is I’m trying to teach my wife to keybind and it would be easier if she could see the keys on the screen instead of looking at the keyboard.

That's a keyboard overlay he used for streaming/recording. I don't know which one he went with and have never used something like it myself, but NohBoard might be along the lines of what you're looking for.

I noticed other links at the bottom of the GSF school YouTube page. I want ask a question about the one by Plasticx. In his video

he uses a key overlay of certain keyboard keys on the left side. I’m wondering what that is and can we legitimately use it in GSF.

 

The reason I ask is I’m trying to teach my wife to keybind and it would be easier if she could see the keys on the screen instead of looking at the keyboard.

Scrab uses one too. Scrabs channel In fact I have been thinking about adding it to my videos so people can see what I am doing a little easier when I talk about how finite your control of the buttons needs to be for Scouting.

Are you thinking it might contravene TOR rules somehow?

 

Are you thinking it might contravene TOR rules somehow?

I honestly don’t think so. My only concern would be if the game’s got the ability to detect a 3rd party app like that and if it does, it may misconstrue what it is and auto flag you in the system for TOS violation.

Do you possibly have a link to that software? We can ask BioWare what they think.