The real question is does EA believe in "STORY" vs "Story" vs "story" vs "something something darkside"?

 

Because the pre-mergered Bioware was all about "STORY"...

 

Post Merger we got "Story"...

 

Now we have FP "story"

 

If the story for a STORY game gets any smaller, then what are actually playing?

 

Because there isn't enough open world sandbox to allow for player created emergent game play content unless you're in a heavy RP Guild?

LOL !!! Nailed it !!

IN order to have "story content" you must have STORY CONTENT ! The last couple of FP's were 98% fighting through various MOBS and just a few scattered lines through out the "STORY" .... which comes out to more like story .

Soooo ... here's my what do you want list (yeah ... most of you have seen it before .... yawn ! )

** New class ( you know the one )

** MORE stories AND a new companion to go with the new class

** MORE (scratch that) ... RETURN of interactions with companions (some of them repeatable)

** MORE customizations available for current companions (including Lana) and customizations available for previously requested NEW companion.

** That special space station on the outer rim (the one with 3 observation decks .. and at least one really knock out view )

** Maybe an updated facility for the alliance that would only be opened up for each character after completing the latest story in 7.0

** some old fashion BUG squashing !

The last couple of FP's were 98% fighting through various MOBS and just a few scattered lines through out the "STORY"

Being able to claim single pieces of CM sets from the collection

Choosing of WZs, similar to FP group finder

One or two GSF maps more, new mode perhaps, capture the flag like or added pve elements like escorting freighter/destroyer, protecting it from other team

Weapon slot for outfit manager and/or dyeing weapons

or the ability to use different weapons without penalty as long as it is class-appropriate (tech/force...still waiting to be able to use a rifle on my BH... friggin Boba Fett used one, why can't my BH do so?)

Primary/secondary dye slots on gear

You mean kinda like a number of chapters in KotFE/ET with all those skytroopers?

Zing!

Honestly, I don't think SWTOR has any easy or right path forward at this point and I don't think they have for quite some time. This thread has a lot of great ideas or (pipe) dreams but with some stuff when you take a step back it's like "What about the last several years of SWTOR makes you/anyone/people think this/that/X thing would be possible?"

In terms of storytelling + gameplay I still have a fondness for the starter planets. Decent sized locations, doesn't take too long to get anywhere, you only have 2 or 3 quests at any on time, you're hitting the story or gameplay beats much faster than you are on later planets, etc, etc, and I can see trying to do stuff like that with the more recent story updates but at the same time it's also obvious that they just can't generate assets, story beats, quests, etc, to the degree they once could and it's sad because you can see them trying to do so within the limited scope they have.

I think KOTFE/KOTET messed up a number of things that the game is still trying to recover from. How it presented/told story, how it dealt with companions, various elements with the Alliance, etc, etc, and we're slowly moving back to the factions but at the same time we still have all this connective tissue from KOTFE/KOTET when it feels like they needed to make more of a clean break from it.

Me personally I feel like the expansions should be more separate from one another rather than being an extension of one another the way KOTFE/KOTET. For example with WoW, FF14, and ESO it generally feels like each new expansion is or can be a new jumping on point for new players but you can't really say about SWTOR after a certain point. With 2.0 and 3.0 sure, not so much with 4.0 onwards. And when I say jumping on point I mean starting from the content of that expanion. Like with 3.0 it had story ties to previous content but for the most part you could start a character there and understand the progression of things.

My 2 pence worth (I'm British )

• Cancel the ability mess that's currently on the PTS (though I'm not sure they intend to change it much based on their previous lack of action on our feedback) - in it's current state it's shockingly bad (yes I did try it out and leave constructive feedback)
  
• Stop putting Lana in everything and while you're at it stop making me speak to Major Anri.
  
• More Theron interactions for those of us who still have him please (or tell us honestly why he's disappeared into nothing)
  
• Remember that women play this game too - too many things in this game forget that
  
• Give our classic companions dialogue/interactions
  
• Resurrect Skavak as a companion for smugglers - seriously killing him off was the worst decision ever (and of course it's possible - one word: Scorpio)
  
• Make Zenith a proper romance companion as he should have been from the start - get a new voice actor if you have to
  
• Of the new companions make Rivix a proper romance - if the ability mess stands, this is the only thing that would keep me subbed (well that and more Malavai Quinn interaction obviously)
  
• Remove Bey'wan Aygo after he leaves the alliance. Seriously why is he still there?
  
• A story expansion that's the size and quality of KotFE/KotET or at the very least SoR. I'm fed up of story content being a couple of 2 minute conversations a flashpoint and dailies.
  
• A new stronghold on Dantooine which is the size of and similar layout to Nar Shaddaa but with more light
  
• And/or allow us to by multiple copies of existing strongholds
  
• Increase the companion decoration count for strongholds
  
• Fix the companion customisations for Elara Dorne and Malavai Quinn in the Iokath cutscene please - WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THE FIX SINCE YOU ACKNOWLEDGED THIS BACK IN 2017!!
  
• Still waiting on that kill option for Azshara for my dark side Inqs
  
• New "casual" unranked PvP queues with new quests for the clueless. If you're going to force it on people as part of GS, as least make it not matter so people can have a chance. Why not have a quest that's basically "at least you tried" where participating counts again
  
• Better still give us solo player friendly options for GS PO dailies and weeklies. Add the option to block/filter group finder vet flashpoints/ops, PvP/GSF as POs for those that hate them. There are plenty of solo friendly challenging things we could do (note: completing an entire run of Eternal Championship is not one of them thanks - but the first five bosses is)
  
• Allow us to run two instances of swtor on the same computer. Seriously why is this not allowed? When I played wow, this solved so many problems for me in addition:
  
• Allow us to make personal guilds for our mains and alts without the need for other people to create one and send invites to alts even when they aren't online.
  
• Overhaul the walker chapters and make them doable without the walker.
  
• Nerf the 3 mechanical bosses in the weapon room on Iokath - you know which ones I mean!
  

Being able to claim single pieces of CM sets from the collection

 

Choosing of WZs, similar to FP group finder

 

One or two GSF maps more, new mode perhaps, capture the flag like or added pve elements like escorting freighter/destroyer, protecting it from other team

 

Weapon slot for outfit manager and/or dyeing weapons

or the ability to use different weapons without penalty as long as it is class-appropriate (tech/force...still waiting to be able to use a rifle on my BH... friggin Boba Fett used one, why can't my BH do so?)

 

Primary/secondary dye slots on gear

I like some of these for sure.

Weapon slots for outfit manager...they tried this and then it was phased out as an option...Bioware try again, try harder.

Free the weapons! I resubbed to support Bioware in their efforts because I was one of the people that thought advance class/weapon type swapping was what they were doing with this next "expansion"...turns out its probably not a thing and its just ability trimming/combining (or it seems like it so far). Honestly once they confirm what they are doing I will decide if I stop subbing again... I love Star Wars but BW as much as I want to love them have missed the mark with SWToR on an epic scale with content cadence and general systems that would keep me engaged.

More dye options=YES

I don't play GSF it needs an overhaul IMO...I tried to get into it for a couple weeks and was instantly obliterated so often I decided it wasn't for me.

I really think they need to get over whatever glitch they have with "their vision" (It seems to be what holds games back most of the time "Developer vision" conflicting with just designing a fun game).

Focus on Character and story flexibility and development...give us options to choose what we want on our characters(weapon type, force/tech abilities) and what road we want to walk in the story... It will make people happy.

You mean kinda like a number of chapters in KotFE/ET with all those skytroopers?

At least there was some actual STORY to go with it !

(right back at ya !! )

Hey ! it's all good ...

would be even better if we get a LOT more GOOD stories and content too !!

At least there was some actual STORY to go with it !

(right back at ya !! )

 

 

Hey ! it's all good ...

 

would be even better if we get a LOT more GOOD stories and content too !!

I think KOTFE/KOTET would/could be more enjoyable or tolerable to people if you could play it more like a Telltale Adventure game where it's primarily just the story with bits of action here and there. For example keep all the boss fights, notable character fights, etc, and trim out a lot of the Skytrooper sections.

To further go along with this thread one of the things SWTOR feels like it needs the further time goes on and the bigger the story becomes is something like the Dragon Age Keep which was an online app created for Dragon Age Inquisition that allowed players to plug in all their choices from previous Dragon Age games or plug in whatever choices they wanted to generate a new save. This was especially handy for players who were playing Inquisition on a platform different than that of the previous games, ie playing Origins on 360 but Inquisition on PC.

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Keep

https://dragonagekeep.com/en_US/

People at times want to option to be able to skip certain story segments/chapters without feeling like they missed out or lost something by doing so. Skipping KOTFE/KOTET in paticular locks in a lot of choices for your character that people would like to have control over without having to go through the entirety of two expansions.

At least there was some actual STORY to go with it !

But the story wasn't enjoyable for me and many others hah! On a more serious note though, just try to imagine that you really don't like the KotFE/ET story and then having to slog your way through it each time you make a new character.

That's the biggest problem with them doing KotFE/ET the way they did. They focused so much on making story but now I skip it every time because I don't care for it and it takes WAY too much time to go through it. All that story content for naught. I mean, if you like it great...but if you don't you're gonna skip it every time and as I said, that's a lot of story content and that kills the replay value for many people.

That's why when BW asked about streamlining ideas, my first thought was to streamline KotFE/ET chapters so they would be quick. I would give it another go then. In the current state certainly not.

But the story wasn't enjoyable for me and many others hah! On a more serious note though, just try to imagine that you really don't like the KotFE/ET story and then having to slog your way through it each time you make a new character.

 

That's the biggest problem with them doing KotFE/ET the way they did. They focused so much on making story but now I skip it every time because I don't care for it and it takes WAY too much time to go through it. All that story content for naught. I mean, if you like it great...but if you don't you're gonna skip it every time and as I said, that's a lot of story content and that kills the replay value for many people.

 

That's why when BW asked about streamlining ideas, my first thought was to streamline KotFE/ET chapters so they would be quick. I would give it another go then. In the current state certainly not.

Please believe me when I tell you ... I DO understand !! I was glad when ( based on original stories ) :

** I finally saw the last of Garza !

** Saresh finally was locked up (oh yeah .. that was in Kot ET wasn't it !! )

** I no longer had to listen to Risha

** HK-55 showed up ! ( plus one to kill counter ) LOL ! ( Oh yeah .. sorry forgot that was in KotFE

** Most of the story for the JC .. ugh so much so that I only have ONE of those characters.

I'm certain that we can both come up with lists on BOTH sides of the discussion. Make no mistake about it there were SEVERAL things about the mechanics of KotFE / ET that I absolutely hated. I really hated how I had to make a dark side choice for ALL my LS characters in order to have a key component (companion) in the fight against Vaylin.

There again as you would point out a BAD part of the story in which a number of players left and never came back.

One thing that many folks DO like as a result of the KotFE / ET era .. the possibility of a VIABLE 3rd faction ! The independence idea kind of has a good ring to it ( as long as it continues to be done correctly ) .

POINT is .. "what do we want?" Reading through this thread (and MANY other similar ) .. can't find too many that REALLY REALLY want to throw a lot of resources on redoing our class combat styles !!:eek:

Reading through this thread there are a lot of good ideas. Most of those ideas have been the subject of discussion for months / years now. Very rarely have those suggestions been harshly rejected. If anything most would be welcomed !!

So what do I want (aside from the list I provided which managed to slip away) ... just take the time to read over the top 10 ideas that have been around for a long time now !!

NONE of those ideas are an impossibility to reach !

Give more crap about the roleplay of individual classes and their unique class storylines than dedicate their budget and attention to the gameplay and mmo crap? Not settle for lazy single (or binary) storylines split into Imps and Pubs alone?

It's simple really. Doubt they'd bother to listen or read these posts though. So I'd just whine because I'm bored and like to sow dissent.

Give more crap about the roleplay of individual classes and their unique class storylines than dedicate their budget and attention to the gameplay and mmo crap? Not settle for lazy single (or binary) storylines split into Imps and Pubs alone?

It's not like Bioware didn't or doesn't want to continue the class storylines and are intentionally opting to do single or faction-based storylines instead. They simply don't have the resources to continue the class storylines the way they originally planned to or to the same level players would expect the class stories to continue based on the vanilla content.

Look at how much story content there is or how quickly players are able to go through it whenever a new story update gets released. Now imagine that same amount of story content split 8 different ways uniquely across different classes. You'd end up with a situation where you'd only have 5 minutes of new story content for each class.

This has been the situation ever since the game went Free To Play. The development team was downsized and the game's budget was reduced. Once that happened there was no way to properly continue the class stories. EA would need to significantly re-invest in the game, give Bioware Austin more resources, etc, in order for SWTOR to see any kind of significant change to how it's story content is handled. EA however sees no reason to do so given that SWTOR makes money as is with EA only needing to spend little money on it in order for it to continue making money.

-snipped-

You know, this got me thinking. You favour the republic side and I the imperial side and I think therein lie a lot of our views. You see, KotFE/ET was obviously written for a Jedi Knight and so I felt out of place a lot more with my Imperial characters.

I think that the class stories where better overall on the Imperial side. Not to say that the Rep stories were without merit, but you know ... overall.

And KotFE/ET I could forgive the plot faults and holes and the artificial lengthening of content if indeed it had applied more clearly to all classes alike or relatively close. But it's not. I find my tech classes even more out of place but my Imperial force users were already out of place with the whole premise of the "Commander". And for tech classes that would make more sense but then the whole Valkorion deal was written from the pov of the JK and the JC is pretty close as well.

So I would wager that a the enjoyment or not of KotFE/ET has a lot to do with what you play class wise and definitely Rep or Imp. Not saying that that's the whole story but I'm willing to bet that it's one of the main factors.

And this is why the class stories worked so well.

You know, this got me thinking. You favour the republic side and I the imperial side and I think therein lie a lot of our views. You see, KotFE/ET was obviously written for a Jedi Knight and so I felt out of place a lot more with my Imperial characters.

 

I think that the class stories where better overall on the Imperial side. Not to say that the Rep stories were without merit, but you know ... overall.

 

And KotFE/ET I could forgive the plot faults and holes and the artificial lengthening of content if indeed it had applied more clearly to all classes alike or relatively close. But it's not. I find my tech classes even more out of place but my Imperial force users were already out of place with the whole premise of the "Commander". And for tech classes that would make more sense but then the whole Valkorion deal was written from the pov of the JK and the JC is pretty close as well.

 

So I would wager that a the enjoyment or not of KotFE/ET has a lot to do with what you play class wise and definitely Rep or Imp. Not saying that that's the whole story but I'm willing to bet that it's one of the main factors.

 

And this is why the class stories worked so well.

This is pretty much my exact feelings/thoughts on KOTFE/KOTET.

All the Valkorian stuff feels like an extension of the JK's class story whereas all the Commander stuff feels more at home with the Trooper while the Consular and Smuggler aren't as strong of fits with the narrative.

People can/have/will argue that the Sith Warrior ties into Valkorian well with the Warrior being the Emperor's Hand but KOTFE is the first time the Warrior gets any significant screen time with the Emperor not to mention the Emperor in the lead up to KOTFE is so combative with all the classes including the Warrior that it's hard for the Warrior to really feel any sense of duty, honor, or loyalty to him.

I can see the parallels that people would make with the Sith Sorc & Valkorian given the Sorc's existing story with Force Ghosts and quest for power and how that works with them leading the Alliance but the Sorc I feel like has a hard time fitting in or justifying their position as a front line soldier the way the gameplay needs them to be. It's like having Palpatine running around on the front lines during all the conflicts.

The story of KOTFE/KOTET feels like they took the original Chapter 4 Class Stories and created a hodgepodge mishmash of all them together that ultimately doesn't work perfectly for any one class. As much as the Smuggler & Bounty Hunter feel out of place in a lot of the two expansions there are areas where they do work like the parts/Chapter with Vette & Gault.

It's not like Bioware didn't or doesn't want to continue the class storylines and are intentionally opting to do single or faction-based storylines instead. They simply don't have the resources to continue the class storylines the way they originally planned to or to the same level players would expect the class stories to continue based on the vanilla content.

 

Look at how much story content there is or how quickly players are able to go through it whenever a new story update gets released. Now imagine that same amount of story content split 8 different ways uniquely across different classes. You'd end up with a situation where you'd only have 5 minutes of new story content for each class.

 

This has been the situation ever since the game went Free To Play. The development team was downsized and the game's budget was reduced. Once that happened there was no way to properly continue the class stories. EA would need to significantly re-invest in the game, give Bioware Austin more resources, etc, in order for SWTOR to see any kind of significant change to how it's story content is handled. EA however sees no reason to do so given that SWTOR makes money as is with EA only needing to spend little money on it in order for it to continue making money.

Yes, yes, don't have the resources, don't have enough budget, good intentions not resulting in satisfying actions; I've heard the preach before a dozen times, most of them from you IIRC. Very sad, very tragic, here's the world's tiniest violin. And as I've said before to those dozen times, I sympathize, but business is business. If they couldn't deliver the product I want, regardless of whom is to blame, then I'm sorry but have to move on and take my sub money and countless cartel coin purchases somewhere else...

And regardless of how much pain EA is giving Bioware, I could only judge by what I see as a consumer, a non-developer. I pay the money as a consumer, paying monthly subs, and I could only judge based on what I pay and what I want, not what game developers are trying to do, not what the game industry is doing with the state of things - the only thing that matters is me and my money and what I do with it. If something doesn't satisfy me, I simply move onto bigger and shinier things. It's a tough world out there in the entertainment business, where there are dozens of entertainers who can do your job of entertaining people better and perhaps even cheaper.

If they couldn't deliver the product I want, regardless of whom is to blame, then I'm sorry but have to move on and take my sub money and countless cartel coin purchases somewhere else...

I'm not telling you or asking for you to stay but don't pretend like Bioware had/has a choice in the matter the way you made it out to be. That spreads false info and doesn't help anything or anyone.

I'm not telling you or asking for you to stay but don't pretend like Bioware had/has a choice in the matter the way you made it out to be. That spreads false info and doesn't help anything or anyone.

EA is EA, but BW have had a large hand in various failures by spending WAY too much time in pre-production horning over their own ideas but never quite getting to a clear concept they could build the game on. This was the case with Anthem, it was the case with ME:Andromeda but it also was the case with SWTOR.

So whatever the role EA played in it, BW do have a lot to answer for themselves. Putting it all on EA really is really too easy.

EA is EA, but BW have had a large hand in various failures by spending WAY too much time in pre-production horning over their own ideas but never quite getting to a clear concept they could build the game on. This was the case with Anthem, it was the case with ME:Andromeda but it also was the case with SWTOR.

 

So whatever the role EA played in it, BW do have a lot to answer for themselves. Putting it all on EA really is really too easy.

This is a solid take, nice post.

EA is EA, but BW have had a large hand in various failures by spending WAY too much time in pre-production horning over their own ideas but never quite getting to a clear concept they could build the game on. This was the case with Anthem, it was the case with ME:Andromeda but it also was the case with SWTOR.

 

So whatever the role EA played in it, BW do have a lot to answer for themselves. Putting it all on EA really is really too easy.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that or saying/suggesting that Bioware is completely blameless for all of SWTOR's mistakes merely that as the game stands now they don't have the option of doing class stories or rather they went the faction-based or single based story route after the vanilla game because they really had no other options after the game went Free To Play and the staff size was reduced.

Note how plenty of people have asked for class stories to return in this thread and I didn't respond to all of them saying "that's not possible" I responded to the one that was acting poorly about it while most everybody else in the thread has simply stated what they want in a very simple/respectful way.

I want them to get rid of the "One Time Password."

That is all.

I forgot a big one!

I want the ability to skip individual chapters and choose the story flags I want when I do. I hate that we can only skip whole expansions are are forced into faction choices.

What do you want Bioware to do?

All right. So a few major gripes I have with the game as it is:

So I want BioWare to bring back explorable planets. Not just small ones like Onderon but full size planets like we got in the original release. Then I want them to stop using FPs to tell the main story and use those planets for that. I mean I really want class stories back or at least write stories that make sense for every class.

I want simple dailies straightforward dailies, meaning not like Mek Sha and Onderon or Iokath. They try too hard to do something different and ended up making annoying quests.

Then I want them to go back to tell the main story with the same main events and outcomes for everyone as to give the feeling that we're all part of the same universe. This is important to me and to an MMO.

I also want them to redo the gearing process. BiS gear should not be as easy to get as it is now. So considering we get loadouts now I want them to separate PvE, Raiding and PvP gear and make BiS gear in each category. So people get the same rating but with different stats and set bonuses that are geared towards that content. And of course you can only advance to BiS while doing the appropriate activities.

And I want them to bring in more and different things to do. I also play GW2 and there is so much more to do in that game than in SWTOR. It's certainly not a perfect game but there is just so much more to do with Masteries, Collections, Crafting, Exploring to name a few. It really puts this game to shame when it comes to things to do. SWTOR mainly relies on repetition of the same old things.

Oh and I want BW to change the GF to where you can list a group and LFM in there. That way people can see the groups and join them and instantly taxi to an instance. That is especially useful when it's already in progress because they might be looking for 2 people but it won't allow you to join a group until it's full again.

And in game rewards. I really want the in game rewards to be more than just credits. They removed a bunch of currencies and then added a bunch again but it's a bit of a mess. I would like to see more currencies but currencies that are consistent and with interesting rewards. They removed the planetary currencies but those were the best ones. They just should've made them legacy bound from the start. And there are reputation vendors but they haven't updated their rewards...ever.

So there's the main things I want.