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Operative Feedback

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bladech's Avatar


bladech
11.23.2021 , 03:10 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by ralphieceaser View Post
Of course operatives feel everything is fine, guess what, if killing a class requires extreme coordination or merc nets(well timed ones only) while most classes dont need that to be killed, it is broken beyond belief and you are just trying to keep them broken while they are extremely strong in so many areas.

If you have so many advantages you better have a glaring disadvantage and screwing with their stealth escape is one way, I would have prefer a mobility and immunity in rolls or burst nerf but that works as well, they still have great mobility, self heals, huge damage and initial stealth alongside the roll immunity
it seems you guys are not considering the whole truth. Operative IS ALREady getting a nerf in 7.0. even besides evasion cleanse on vanish They took away:
1. Damage reduction on stim boost
2.damage reduction from healing probes utilities
3. forcing players to choose either to take flasgbang or holotraverse which will result in mobility/defense nerf in any case
4.they removed info about amount of heal provided by probes (https://i.imgur.com/KAtWOdm.png) which will probably be a stealth nerf they wanted to hide
5.they forcing to choose between 5% damage reduction and 15% extra movement speed and +3 to stealth level. which will also result in losing mobility or defenses.

So yeah, taking away cleanse vanish is too much after all nerfs they do to operative's defenses and mobility will result into full uselesness of this class in ranked pvp.

Also, if you think you will win by this you are totally mistaken. The logic behind playing fotm classes will never dissapear from pvp in ANY MMO. Those who playing operatives/mercs/marauders at the moment will just hastily swap to a new fotm class (sorc, merc, sniper or whoever it will be). They won't stay on operative because their credo is to play strong class. And what you will do then? Start crying about sorcs/snipers? while we will have minus one possible class for ranked? great logic lol. Personally, if operative will become useless, i will just swap to better class as i always did in the past since it's not my problem someone screwed up with balance, and i bet many will do the same
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snave's Avatar


snave
11.24.2021 , 08:05 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
it seems you guys are not considering the whole truth. Operative IS ALREady getting a nerf in 7.0. even besides evasion cleanse on vanish They took away:
1. Damage reduction on stim boost
2.damage reduction from healing probes utilities
3. forcing players to choose either to take flasgbang or holotraverse which will result in mobility/defense nerf in any case
4.they removed info about amount of heal provided by probes (https://i.imgur.com/KAtWOdm.png) which will probably be a stealth nerf they wanted to hide
5.they forcing to choose between 5% damage reduction and 15% extra movement speed and +3 to stealth level. which will also result in losing mobility or defenses.

So yeah, taking away cleanse vanish is too much after all nerfs they do to operative's defenses and mobility will result into full uselesness of this class in ranked pvp.

Also, if you think you will win by this you are totally mistaken. The logic behind playing fotm classes will never dissapear from pvp in ANY MMO. Those who playing operatives/mercs/marauders at the moment will just hastily swap to a new fotm class (sorc, merc, sniper or whoever it will be). They won't stay on operative because their credo is to play strong class. And what you will do then? Start crying about sorcs/snipers? while we will have minus one possible class for ranked? great logic lol. Personally, if operative will become useless, i will just swap to better class as i always did in the past since it's not my problem someone screwed up with balance, and i bet many will do the same
If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.

velvet_illusionZ's Avatar


velvet_illusionZ
11.24.2021 , 09:31 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by snave View Post
If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.
you complain caus your godroll has a 8s cd instead of four und you only got 1 hardstun without that unholy set which shouldn't have been created in the first place? lmao
If you can't kite, chase with the tools you still have maybe its time to get good....no other class has a cd/escape with a gcd long immunity to most damage on a 8s cd....dude, ops should've lost at least one charge on top to make them balanced with most other classes, considering you still got stealth, self heal, shield, evasion with a 150% reflect of everything, brutal burst etc, ppp....this class is still as broken as it gets....

snave's Avatar


snave
11.24.2021 , 01:02 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by velvet_illusionZ View Post
you complain caus your godroll has a 8s cd instead of four und you only got 1 hardstun without that unholy set which shouldn't have been created in the first place? lmao
If you can't kite, chase with the tools you still have maybe its time to get good....no other class has a cd/escape with a gcd long immunity to most damage on a 8s cd....dude, ops should've lost at least one charge on top to make them balanced with most other classes, considering you still got stealth, self heal, shield, evasion with a 150% reflect of everything, brutal burst etc, ppp....this class is still as broken as it gets....
With all due respect, you clearly have no idea how operative works in pvp.

Reflect removal is fine, I've suggested since 6.0 that it shouldn't be an option, everything else you've said is objectively stupid.

bladech's Avatar


bladech
11.25.2021 , 01:08 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by snave View Post
If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.
Didn't even know they taking away countermeasures breaker...this is complete awful now. They just destroying the whole class for ranked just due to cries from unranked players who haven't been playing in ranked and not understanding that this class is not easy when playing in hard modes. Merc will still have its net which will work same as now but other classes will have less defenses in 7.0. + merc will still have all his defenses which he can choose from new tree list while operatives is just deprived from everything without any right of choosing.

GG devs, minus one class for ranked. Now we will see all operatives rerolling to sorcs/mercs and a bit later we will see casual players crying about overpowered sorcs and mercs asking to nerf them
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Tintfax's Avatar


Tintfax
11.25.2021 , 05:01 PM | #96
Well, i read through a view Class-Threads, and in every Thread people are writing, that the class is now destroyed for ranked.... Maybe, the balancing isn't that bad after all.

We will see.

septru's Avatar


septru
11.25.2021 , 06:34 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by snave View Post

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP.
I reluctantly agree with Snave, even though I am pretty happy with most of the changes to operative. Uptime might be a big problem for conc opers in 7.0. However, since almost all classes are getting nerfs to movement such as merc and powertech, I think we can probably wait and see how it is after 7.0 falls.

Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Operative doesn't have cleanse on vanish anymore (https://i.imgur.com/4WIHLK1.png). Without Evasion on vanish utility this class is deleted from pvp.
This post from Stain on the other hand, is completely dumb. Stop complaining about everything and learn to save evasion for when you stealth out. You talk about how ranked pvp is filled with the best and most competitive players and then you don't bother to learn how to adapt.
-Prum

bladech's Avatar


bladech
12.01.2021 , 04:30 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
I reluctantly agree with Snave, even though I am pretty happy with most of the changes to operative. Uptime might be a big problem for conc opers in 7.0. However, since almost all classes are getting nerfs to movement such as merc and powertech, I think we can probably wait and see how it is after 7.0 falls.



This post from Stain on the other hand, is completely dumb. Stop complaining about everything and learn to save evasion for when you stealth out. You talk about how ranked pvp is filled with the best and most competitive players and then you don't bother to learn how to adapt.
sin has saber ward/shroud and operative will be forced to keep evesion, the only one decent (still worse than sabers wards though becasue it takes through yellow attacks) cd until vanish? are you kidding me? so what should operative hope for after he gets focused? On useless shield probe which is weak and 2 rolls? Iam not considering shield probe as an dcd even. It absorbs really small amount of damage, and totally useless. Take away evasion from operative which is also not that good as guarded by the force, saber ward and shroud and what operative has?? Probes aren't healing enough to maintain survivability and roll is nerfed due to debilitator absence. As a result - operatives will be an easy target to kill in most of the fights. And against merc operative can /stuck from the begining
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velvet_illusionZ's Avatar


velvet_illusionZ
12.02.2021 , 03:47 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
sin has saber ward/shroud and operative will be forced to keep evesion, the only one decent (still worse than sabers wards though becasue it takes through yellow attacks) cd until vanish? are you kidding me? so what should operative hope for after he gets focused? On useless shield probe which is weak and 2 rolls? Iam not considering shield probe as an dcd even. It absorbs really small amount of damage, and totally useless. Take away evasion from operative which is also not that good as guarded by the force, saber ward and shroud and what operative has?? Probes aren't healing enough to maintain survivability and roll is nerfed due to debilitator absence. As a result - operatives will be an easy target to kill in most of the fights. And against merc operative can /stuck from the begining
sabre ward only gives you a 50% dodge chance against melee and ranged weapon attacks-aka it doesn't do anything against yellow tech damage (ops do 95% tech btw), while evasion gives you a defato immunity against that type of damage for 5 seconds every minute on top of getting the same immunity for 1.5 secs every 8 secs....get your facts straight und l2p....
and even if ops get nerfed hard-its about time! ops were the top spec for ages, its time to let other specs get their fair share of spotlight