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Assassin Feedback

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JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
09.15.2021 , 10:07 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Assassin.

Please answer the following questions:
  • Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing an Assassin? Why or why not?
  • If you have feedback on the different discipline, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!
Jackie | Community Manager
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Baletraeger's Avatar


Baletraeger
09.15.2021 , 02:26 PM | #2
Darkness

Level 20 - Energized Shock looks like a cool passive. I've always liked abilities that extend taunts and lower the cooldown of taunts to allow tanks to focus on crowd control mechanics and not have to be competing with DPS as well.

Level 30 - Some great choices here to augment Dark Ward, I especially like Gloom Ward for taunt cooldown reduction

Level 35 - I like that there are options here to choose different ways to give a self heal. This is a case where losing a standard ability (Overcharged Saber) doesn't necessarily need to make you suffer, if the encounter allows for Dark Forces to give a similar or better heal.

Level 70 - Rip Severing Slash and Whirlwind

Overall not a terrible setup, I don't feel like Darkness loses it's core feeling, and in some cases you are allowing for reduction in active abilities while allowing their benefits as a passive. I really do like the passives to improve taunting and cooldowns.
Troomis | Star Forge | Twitter

Baletraeger's Avatar


Baletraeger
09.15.2021 , 02:27 PM | #3
Deception

Level 15 - Reaper, and at such a low level, this will really give Deception that feeling you can murder everything in a room. Nice

Level 20 - Losing Overload to get access to some fun morphs. For deception maybe this is a little less painful since I've always felt it was more of a single target spec, but sometimes it feels like you are forcing experienced players to make difficult and uncomfortable choices about their build, where I'd think you want us to be excited to choose from the different options at each level milestone.

Level 35 - I like that there are options here to choose different ways to give a self heal. This is a case where losing a standard ability (Overcharged Saber) doesn't necessarily need to make you suffer, if the encounter allows for Dark Forces to give a similar or better heal.

Level 70 - Rip Severing Slash and Whirlwind

Overall still fun to play, I don't think I would hate Deception after these changes.
Troomis | Star Forge | Twitter

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
09.15.2021 , 03:28 PM | #4
We're making Juggernaut tanks choose between Saber Reflect, Mad Dash and Intimidating Roar and Assassins have to choose between Overload, Severing Slash (which no one wanted or needed anyway) and Whirlwind?! Nuh-uh, hell no, this is insane. It's already the tank you want at least one of in every single operation, often two is even better. But we're not dealing with Shroud being bonkers broken in any way, though we are making it so Juggs have to choose between Mad Dash and Reflect?! I thought this was a sign that maybe you wanted to tone down on mechanics cheesing, but nah Sins get to keep all their cheeses, the just lose the AoE nobody wanted and have to choose between Overload and Whirlwind.

You gotta either give Jugg tanks the option of getting both Dash and Reflect, or have Sins choose between Shroud or Shroud on Cloak or something, because this will make Sins even more dominant in the operations tanking spot.

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.15.2021 , 03:36 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Assassin.

Please answer the following questions:
  • Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing an Assassin? Why or why not?
  • If you have feedback on the different discipline, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!
Yes I've attempted both Hatred and Darkness, can't speak on deception but my core abilities are still there and the passives are very interesting. I'll miss some of the passives, and some abilites like overcharge saber but I can sacrifice those for the new passives. I'll explain my reasoning better in my textwall.

First here is the Darkness one
Spoiler


Now for Hatred
Spoiler
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

Elssha's Avatar


Elssha
09.15.2021 , 05:22 PM | #6
So, VERY preliminary observations;

I didn't get to play or really fight anything, so I can't say if the changes made me feel any squishier or not...
  • Overcharged Saber doesn't say it adds DR, though it does buff us. Need to clarify if the tip or the effect is the bug in darkness.
  • Putting both DV and Recklessness (reck and the spec ability) on one lvl makes them look like a choice at first glance; since all others are 1 or 'pick 1 of 3', might want to make this (and other 'get 2') split to lvl 5 and 10 instead... to make it clearer.
  • Force Slow is useless in PvE and fairly low-use in PvP. WHY was it not the first cut when removing abilities? Sorcs get a lot more use of it than sins.
  • If you want, make it an option for sorcs, and let us get our phase walk back ^_~
  • I would suggest swapping it (Force Slow) with Overload, thus making the lvl 70 choice more balanced, otherwise it'll be overload 95% of the time, while Force Slow vs Severing vs whirlwind sounds like a vastly more situational decision or you can further swap it with Overcharged Saber, (OS @ 70; Force Slow @35)
  • I'd suggest either moving Reaper's rush or otherwise making both possible for deception.
  • You said the tradeoff of lost abilities would be "suped up" versions of current ones; but while that's true for Overload (bindings), Force Cloak didn't get Shroud of Madness, nor did phantom stride get reaper's rush. Furthermore, the two power ups are on the same tier, and for Deception both are very important to have in many fights. Having to pick one will be tough. Maybe let Deception at least have to make different choices, allowing both?

I think Overload or Overcharged Saber should be a base ability for sins; either is far more "part of the class" than Force Slow is, far more useful and far less situational. Overload also is one of the moves beginners to advanced players enjoy, so an argument could be made for it over Overcharged.

Otherwise, not having really fought anything sin tank feels more or less the same, with some forced decisions and some interesting new options.

I think picking between ways to buff an ability is far better than the move vs passives.
Many here feel like they have one clear choice (usually NOT your default BTW) and maybe a situational second, with the third simply becoming a non-option.

I like the DW power-ups, and hate that re-specing makes a far bigger mess now (going darkness->deception and back) than it does on live.

I know SOME of that will be fixed by loadouts, but I'll take this chance to AGAIN ask that you make inactive moves (i.e. Overcharged Saber, Spike and Overload, currently) still bindable while inactive. That way, turning them on/off won't mess up our bars.
Since we'll only get 4-5 Loadouts, this would be a HUGE QoL improvement, and can be made an option if you worry it'll be confusing to new players to have inactive moves on their bars (like how I have to activate cooldown text on every character >_>).

Voroschuk's Avatar


Voroschuk
09.15.2021 , 05:53 PM | #7
Holy crap Hatred is a beast, you can make Eradicate deal all its damage in 1 sec and cast it 3 times in a row with the right utility. With Quick Escalation tactical and 2 Death Fields on top of that the damage is huuuge.... and I like it
Didn't try the other specs yet but this one is much better than live, that's for sure.

ImNotASWFanboy's Avatar


ImNotASWFanboy
09.15.2021 , 06:05 PM | #8
Want to second the votes for Force Slow being an optional ability over either of Overload or Overcharge Saber... it's really not got any use outside of PvP. Those slow abilities in general for the other classes feel like they should be options since not all players will have a need for them, meanwhile they're being asked to opt out of abilities that ARE useful in all content. I don't really understand the philosophy in these types of choices, other than if you want to reduce the utility available to classes.

But anyway...

The changes to Hatred are really nice. I'm having a blast. There's so much burst available. Although at the moment, I've only tested in story mode flashpoints, so I've yet to see whether those choices have a big enough impact in 'endgame' content. For mobbing however, and any kind of solo content, it will be great and probably preferred over Deception because of the huge AoE buff from 2 Death Field charges.

I've messed around with Deception and Darkness less, but they also feel okay overall. I would implore you to take on board the feedback mentioned by others in the thread about some of the baseline abilities. There really is no need for PvE players to be stuck with an ability like Force Slow, while simultaneously having to opt in or out of some buffs and defensive abilities that are relevant in all content.

Merkalto's Avatar


Merkalto
09.15.2021 , 06:53 PM | #9
I'm primarily a Serenity Shadow player, and I was very surprised at the level of changes made to this spec!

I won't go over passives that I have no comments about. The passives I don't have a comment about are in my opinion perfectly fine as is.

The Death Field utilities are really interesting as one rewrites our whole base rotation as Serenity. One is pretty adequate, and one is overshadowed. Two charges on Force in Balance/Death Field is a good idea on paper, and might be an even better idea in practice, especially for mobbing and single-player content. Being able to reset its cooldown via a kill or using Potency/Recklessness is really fun, and allows a massive shake-up of our base rotation (DoT 1, 3 GCDs of filler, DoT2, 7 GCDs of filler, repeat) a lot. It also has potential to be used on main boss-encounters. Penetrating Death seems to be overshadowed a lot by the other two passives. Yes it's a pretty substantial damage increase, but so is two stacks of Death Field/Force in Balance. It's a good passive for aoe cleaving, but it lacks the massive burst that two Death Field/Force in Balance (especially sub 30%) has. I don't have any specific suggestions on how to make it a more-worth while choice, however it needs some adjustments to really stand on its own.

Before I get to Eradication Ray, I want to briefly mention Ruin. It's probably fine, but it seems a bit underwhelming in PvE. I'm sure it'll be more useful for cleaving in PvP... however.
Eradication Ray is kind of ridiculous.
This passive when I first read it made me think that it would be a proper trade-off to Squelch/Eradicate. Where it deals all off its damage in 2 ticks (1 initial hit, 1 DoT tick), and would only consume one Supression/Deathmark stack so it would be more burst damage, but less damage overall. However that isn't the case, and it is instead almost a direct upgrade passive that feels really out of place. The only time it directly hinders you is when A, you aren't generating bonus force over 6 seconds, and B you're always going to deal -5% less damage and healing with Serenity/Leeching Strike due to its passive. It's fun, don't get me wrong, it just feels out of place to me as someone who's spent a couple of years playing this spec. This passive should have a proper tradeoff in my opinion.

I don't have any issues with the level 35 passives, in fact I actually want to praise this decision. BR/Overcharged Saber was always more useful on Deception compared to Hatred, however the extra bonus hits that BR grants Hatred is pretty strong, and being able to offset that with either a recreated Death Knell set bonus or higher critical chance and removing our need to use Saber Strike every 12-14 GCDs is really nice. You're choosing now between big self heal burst, higher melee and Squelch/Eradicate damage, and stronger DoT crits and a smoother rotation. It's very well done.

The level 70 passive choices are fine. Cleaving Cut/Severing Slash was always the most useful on Serenity/Hatred, so it stings a bit for both PvP and PvE, however it's nothing to get upset about, and makes for some pretty interesting builds.

Overall yes, this still feels like the Serenity/Hatred I'm used to playing since 5.X. Yes this is a good direction for the spec in my opinion.

Unrelated, thank you for turning the spec-specific level 1 passives into the stance changes. It makes it easier for newer players to identify what the specs do, which is good!

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
09.16.2021 , 08:03 AM | #10
The passive called "Dusk Ward" is quite worrisome. Accuracy debuffs and defense chance already make a rather large gap between white and yellow damage. Having near indefinite uptime accuracy debuff that's this powerful isn't quite balanced at all. This could be replaced with plenty of other things that wouldn't negatively impact PvP.

For those unfamiliar with accuracy and its role in PvP.
Missing things like taunts, CC and basic abilities based purely on RNG is a pure fun killer.