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You lied to us bioware.... Again.


Darth-Malkaevian

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So we were told that we would be able to mix and match skills and equipment.

 

However,

 

You can't do either.

 

If I want to be a Healer that carries a Dualblade saber.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Sith Assasin that Carries Duel Blades.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Marauder with Ranged Lightning abilities... Get The Frak over it.

 

~~~ YOU CAN NOT EVEN CHANGE THE "APPERENCE" OF A 1 HANDED SABER TO A DUAL SABER! *** IS UP WITH THAT???? It's you intentionally garanteed us customizability, and then reneged on every single part of it.

 

The ONLY thing this entire hyped POS update did was allow you to have a separate class, and 'Switch" to that Class.

 

THAT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE TOLD!!!! YOU FRAKIN LIED TO US BIOWARE, AGAIN....

 

We do NOT need a class switcher, WE HAVE MULTIPLE CLASSES ALREADY. WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO INTERCHANGE SKILLS AND ITEMS ADN WEAPONS.

 

YOUR FRAKIN DEV VIDEO SAYS IF WE WANT TO USE A DUAL SABER ON A MARADER OR INQUISITER WE WOULD BE ABLE TO.

 

IF WE WANTED TO USE RANGED LIGHTNING SPELLS ON A MARAUDER OR A JUMP ON AN INQUISITER, WE COULD.

 

 

 

Give us what you promised us.

 

Some of you might think this is a stupid thing to be pissed about.

 

I resubscribed specifically, because of that Dev Video. So I have literally PAID for a guaranteed service, which is now not being given to me. If You did this to your consumers, in Europe You would be facing millions in fines and criminal charges for scamming.

 

Do not hype up and guarantee or promise your players something, if you do not intend to do it.

Edited by Darth-Malkaevian
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So we were told that we would be able to mix and match skills and equipment.

[citation needed] When did they say that?

If I want to be a Healer that carries a Dualblade saber.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Sith Assasin that Carries Duel Blades.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Marauder with Ranged Lightning abilities... Get The Frak over it.

Correct. But they never promised otherwise. Well, unless you can cite ==> that article somewhere or <<== that moment in that video.

~~~ YOU CAN NOT EVEN CHANGE THE "APPERENCE" OF A 1 HANDED SABER TO A DUAL SABER! *** IS UP WITH THAT???? It's you intentionally garanteed us customizability, and then reneged on every single part of it.

When did they "guarantee" that?

The ONLY thing this entire hyped POS update did was allow you to have a separate class, and 'Switch" to that Class.

You switch, not "switch". It really is a switch, while the quotes make it seem like it is fake in some way.

THAT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE TOLD!!!! YOU FRAKIN LIED TO US BIOWARE, AGAIN....

When exactly did they tell us otherwise?

We do NOT need a class switcher, WE HAVE MULTIPLE CLASSES ALREADY.

Really? How did we change from Assassin to Guardian *on the same character* in the pre-7.0 game?

YOUR FRAKIN DEV VIDEO SAYS IF WE WANT TO USE A DUAL SABER ON A MARADER OR INQUISITER WE WOULD BE ABLE TO.

Cite a moment in the video, please. I watched it live, and I don't remember them saying that.

IF WE WANTED TO USE RANGED LIGHTNING SPELLS ON A MARAUDER OR A JUMP ON AN INQUISITER, WE COULD.

Ditto.

 

EDIT: And we *can* use Force Charge (a jump) on an *Inquisitor*. Just play Inquisitor (story) with Juggernaut/Guardian/Marauder/Sentinel (style).

Give us what you promised us.

Align your expectations with what they actually promised.

Some of you might think this is a stupid thing to be pissed about.

I wouldn't use the word "stupid", but yes, you're right, it's not the brightest of complaints, because it's based on something they didn't say.

 

Unless you can cite specfiics...

I resubscribed specifically, because of that Dev Video. So I have literally PAID for a guaranteed service, which is now not being given to me.

Consumer protection law works on the basis of the purpose for which the product is *sold*, not the purpose for which it is *bought*. (Stops problems with people buying hammers that are clearly marked as such in the misguided illusion that they will drive screws. It is sold as a hammer, therefore you have no *legal* right to a refund because it doesn't work as a screwdriver.)

 

The thing you pay for is sold as access (not even guaranteed(1)) to the service in a less restricted way, nothing more, nothing less.

If You did this to your consumers, in Europe You would be facing millions in fines and criminal charges for scamming.

No, because they didn't promise what you claim they promised.

Do not hype up and guarantee or promise your players something, if you do not intend to do it.

Sage advice, but not applicable to your complaint.

 

(1) As in all MMORPGs I've played, the "service level agreement" of SWTOR is "meh, we'll give it a shot, but if it doesn't work, yah boo, sucks to be you".

Edited by SteveTheCynic
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I do not recall them ever saying that. In fact, there was a live stream about the time they were "hyping" this that went over the details that specifically told us what to expect and stated that you could not do this. I may not always agree with things with BW (especially lately) I do recall and even saw this stream, so they did not lie to us.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1073610644

Edited by casirabit
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If I want to be a Healer that carries a Dualblade saber.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Sith Assasin that Carries Duel Blades.. Too Bad.

 

If I want to be a Marauder with Ranged Lightning abilities... Get The Frak over it.

 

A healer that carries a Dual Blade saber?

I don't recall Darth Maul healing people.

 

A Marauder with ranged Lightning skills?

Apparently you don't know what a Marauder is.

 

Why bother having classes at all if you can just mix a match any way you like.

 

That would be like playing D&D and having people playing the Fighter class throwing fireballs around and people playing Clerics being swordmasters.

 

They never made any promises of the sort and it would be the height of stupidity if they did allow things like that.

That would kill all identity and make the game feel NOT like Star Wars, which they already have problems like that in some specific cases. [Jedi Knights who use the Dark Side regularly and the council knows about it and does nothing. Faction mixed PVP , which ruined PVP for me, with Jedi and Sith on the same team, faction mixed storylines in the Alliance crap. Jedi and Sith not able to serve the Republic and the Sith Empire, to name but a few] - We don't need more of that.

 

Granted, some people like that, and that's fine, people are entitled to their opinions, but there are also a lot of players who like their Star Wars to actually kinda feel something like Star Wars.

 

I don't have any issue with the opening up of more weapon options, wherein they make sense. Yeah, a Marauder should be able to use any Lightsaber type he wants, a Commando should be able to use a wide array of weapons.

 

But there are somethings that don't make sense. Gunslingers using Sniper rifles as main weapons. Snipers using Blaster pistols as main weapons. And healers and ranged Force users using double bladed Lightsabers that requite both hands to use.

 

Making classes limitless is dumb. It makes classes pointless.

 

Marauders throwing Lightning around is dumb,

Lightning Sorcs using two lightsabers is dumb.

Snipers not using Sniper rifles is dumb.

 

Besides, as has already been pointed out, you can play class storylines with classes that aren't actually the class the storyline was intended for. For Example Inquistor Storyline with a Marauder spec.

 

Now, in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, that's dumb. Even dumber is playing opposite faction classes. A sentinel playing Sith Warrior storyline for example, is dumb. People are free to disagree with my opinions on that, that's fine, but I don't imagine I am alone in such opinions either.

 

I know a lot of people like it, but I don't think a lot of people are actually thinking that they are the opposite faction class, they're just using that style, and that is probably as it is really intended and that's why they refer to it as 'combat styles'.

 

I personally hate seeing Sentinels, Commandos, Guardians and Vanguards running around imperial fleet and in Operations and flashpoints. Kills the immersion factor for me. - That said, however, it seems that I am more the odd man out on that. - But I certainly don't want to see that immersion tanked further and further.

 

I like my Star Wars Lucas style, and the game has already headed in the opposite direction from that and I don't think it should get any further away from that than it already has.

 

As far as your claims about what they promised. I don't recall them ever saying the things you are suggesting they said, and if SteveTheCynic says they didn't say those things, than they didn't say those things, he's a walking encyclopedia of this game.

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This again?

 

Why must this small coalition of players pull the tired "YOU LIED TO US BIOWARE!!!!!!" every time all the other tired tropes they constantly complain about gets old even to them? :rolleyes:

 

 

They didn't lie you simply misunderstood either accidentally or on purpose.

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This again?

 

Why must this small coalition of players pull the tired "YOU LIED TO US BIOWARE!!!!!!" every time all the other tired tropes they constantly complain about gets old even to them? :rolleyes:

 

 

They didn't lie you simply misunderstood either accidentally or on purpose.

 

I'm guessing on purpose. It's been out since February and the information about how it will work has been out even longer.

 

Just yet another rant to get a rise out of people. Which sadly is a sizable portion of the forums these days

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Like the OP, I did read into it like they did, but not long I understood more,of what to expect. I mean till I got to see it, log in the first time. The One thing I wanted to be, when I first read about this, a force using Bounty hunter.

I thought that till the end , and realize . .took me a while :o, you can't be a force user in a tech class story. I still wasn't sure, till creating, that you couldn't mix-match two different classes abilities.

 

Not upset about any what I read into wrong. except (or was I suppose to use 'But', there's always a but) I couldn't complete Sorcerer class doing a Marauder story, But (there's that but) I can do the Inquisitors story as a Marauder. It was not because I don't like the class, just not a fan repeating that Story.

 

Just saying, that the OP had the same perception as I did of what to expect, but like in my case, I corrected myself . .well most of it

I Still want to be a Force using Bounty Hunter :D

Edited by Achnaattwo
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A healer that carries a Dual Blade saber?

I don't recall Darth Maul healing people.

 

A Marauder with ranged Lightning skills?

Apparently you don't know what a Marauder is.

 

Why bother having classes at all if you can just mix a match any way you like.

 

That would be like playing D&D and having people playing the Fighter class throwing fireballs around and people playing Clerics being swordmasters.

 

They never made any promises of the sort and it would be the height of stupidity if they did allow things like that.

That would kill all identity and make the game feel NOT like Star Wars, which they already have problems like that in some specific cases. [Jedi Knights who use the Dark Side regularly and the council knows about it and does nothing. Faction mixed PVP , which ruined PVP for me, with Jedi and Sith on the same team, faction mixed storylines in the Alliance crap. Jedi and Sith not able to serve the Republic and the Sith Empire, to name but a few] - We don't need more of that.

 

Granted, some people like that, and that's fine, people are entitled to their opinions, but there are also a lot of players who like their Star Wars to actually kinda feel something like Star Wars.

 

I don't have any issue with the opening up of more weapon options, wherein they make sense. Yeah, a Marauder should be able to use any Lightsaber type he wants, a Commando should be able to use a wide array of weapons.

 

But there are somethings that don't make sense. Gunslingers using Sniper rifles as main weapons. Snipers using Blaster pistols as main weapons. And healers and ranged Force users using double bladed Lightsabers that requite both hands to use.

 

Making classes limitless is dumb. It makes classes pointless.

 

Marauders throwing Lightning around is dumb,

Lightning Sorcs using two lightsabers is dumb.

Snipers not using Sniper rifles is dumb.

 

Besides, as has already been pointed out, you can play class storylines with classes that aren't actually the class the storyline was intended for. For Example Inquistor Storyline with a Marauder spec.

 

Now, in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, that's dumb. Even dumber is playing opposite faction classes. A sentinel playing Sith Warrior storyline for example, is dumb. People are free to disagree with my opinions on that, that's fine, but I don't imagine I am alone in such opinions either.

 

I know a lot of people like it, but I don't think a lot of people are actually thinking that they are the opposite faction class, they're just using that style, and that is probably as it is really intended and that's why they refer to it as 'combat styles'.

 

I personally hate seeing Sentinels, Commandos, Guardians and Vanguards running around imperial fleet and in Operations and flashpoints. Kills the immersion factor for me. - That said, however, it seems that I am more the odd man out on that. - But I certainly don't want to see that immersion tanked further and further.

 

I like my Star Wars Lucas style, and the game has already headed in the opposite direction from that and I don't think it should get any further away from that than it already has.

 

As far as your claims about what they promised. I don't recall them ever saying the things you are suggesting they said, and if SteveTheCynic says they didn't say those things, than they didn't say those things, he's a walking encyclopedia of this game.

 

Been awhile since I played D&D and even then it was a few times. However, wasn't Fighter able to throw fireballs if they took a level in Wizarding? :)

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Been awhile since I played D&D and even then it was a few times. However, wasn't Fighter able to throw fireballs if they took a level in Wizarding? :)

Classically, in the AD&D 1st Edition, no, except for humans who changed classes, in which case you could level up Magic User to 6+ (to get access to Fireball) then change to Fighter. And you had to go about your fightering with magic-user armour if you wanted to actually cast those spells in fights.

 

Elves and half-elves could multiclass and level up Fighter and Magic User in parallel (dividing XP evenly between the two) and eventually get to level 6 Magic User.

 

Later editions changed some of that, of course, but I haven't really looked at anything after the second edition.

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Been awhile since I played D&D and even then it was a few times. However, wasn't Fighter able to throw fireballs if they took a level in Wizarding? :)

 

As SteveTheCynic has already addressed that [and spot on as usual!] , I'll spare the details. =]

 

At any rate, you can't switch classes in this game. You choose a class, that's the class you are forever. There's no dipping into other classes. Which is the point. You make dipping into abilties from other classes, you make classes pointless. You loose all identity. And, for me at least, honoring Lucas's vision is important. As I said before, this game has already veered from that quite abit, but I'm not sure how much of it it could take and still be able to use Star Wars in the title and not turn the more hardcore old school Star Wars fans away.

 

As one of the other posters made mention of, the last thing we need is a bunch of 'Reys' running around being able to do everything.

 

No 'Fighter's' throwing 'fireballs' around for me thanks! =]

Edited by WayOfTheWarriorx
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None of that stuff was promised. It was pretty apparent that they were allowing people to pick from

a larger pool of the already established advanced classes. I am not sure where people came up with this idea that bioware was going to revamp the entire combat system

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None of that stuff was promised. It was pretty apparent that they were allowing people to pick from

a larger pool of the already established advanced classes. I am not sure where people came up with this idea that bioware was going to revamp the entire combat system

 

Their original post about offering more customization than the game has ever had was a bit misleading. OP wasn't the only one expecting to be able to mix and match abilities. To Bioware's credit, after their initial post generated a ton of hype they did clarify that what OP was expecting was not the case.

 

I will say though, I see no reason that warriors shouldn't be able to use force lightning. Not to the same degree that sorcerers do, but it should be possible nonetheless.

 

Palpatine wields dual lightsabers at times and he's primarily a sorc. Dooku would most likely be a Juggernaut and he regularly uses force lightning. Then we have Malgus, Marr, Revan, Lana, etc that have all displayed the abiility to do so and they're Juggernauts / Marauders.

 

I'm not saying we should have access to all Sorcerer abilities, but adding a feature that augments existing abilities, perhaps giving them a lightning effect (similar to Vengeful Slam) would make players feel more like these Star Wars legends.

 

In the event that doesn't happen I'll settle for being able to mad dash + saber reflect again. I still can't get over it 😂

Edited by Dyne-
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Their original post about offering more customization than the game has ever had was a bit misleading. OP wasn't the only one expecting to be able to mix and match abilities. To Bioware's credit, after their initial post generated a ton of hype they did clarify that what OP was expecting was not the case.

And they clarified well before the Feb release date. Anyone who still doesn't understand it, just hasn't tried hard enough.

 

I will say though, I see no reason that warriors shouldn't be able to use force lightning. Not to the same degree that sorcerers do, but it should be possible nonetheless.

 

Only using this as an example, since I know you are trying to help. Warrior and Inquisitor are the class. They can both take Combat Styles that have Lightning/Project (throw rocks) in them, or Force Charge/Force Leap, Force Choke/Stun, or whatever theme you want for the abilities. Since each character gets two Combat Styles, you can easily make a Class do very different things, and can even spec into DPS, Tank, and Heals on the same character.

 

What you can't do, and have never been able to do, is change the weapon type for a Combat Style (formerly Advanced Class).

Edited by WHTJunior
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I'm not interested in swapping weapons around - I'm fine with snipers using only sniper rifles, marauders with two sabers, all that. I've already taken advantage of the story-class/combat-style split.

 

The one thing about this I would still like to see (in their initial announcement I hoped it would happen, but that was clarified as time went on) is the ability to choose a combat style across the force/nonforce divide - a jedi who could pick up a rifle, that kind of thing. Just like combat styles are now, you could switch between a Force class and a non-Force class, but you only operate as one class at a time, weapons and all.

 

I suspect that may still be in their long plan. Enabling a weapon swap within a class would seem to be a lot of work, what with animations, effects, and everything. I don't think it would add much to the game, whether mechanically or story-wise, and could easily result in a lot of confusion for players.

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What the OP posted wasn't what they promised us, so no, they didn't lie.

That said, I think more variety is good. As for it "not being starwars", well....

 

Darth Bane trilogy. 1st book (before he becomes Sith). Picks up a sniper rifle, having never used one before. Makes perfect shots very rapidly. He didn't know it at the time, but that was part of him having very high force ability.

 

For my characters that have played "across the faction" - I have specific backstories that explain it.

For my LS5 Jedi (original Sentinel and still has as her first "class" - she has Marauder as her second class. She learned Sith combat techniques from her companion Scourge. She also is able to move from one to another because of her training and extensive time spent on Voss, so can incorporate different force techniques without it affecting her (lightside) alignment.

As for non-force users using force techniques - I chalk it up to having been "possessed" by a force-user at one point.

We regularly are able to do this with "heroic" ability - but only in the company of 1 of our companions, regardless of whether that companion is a force-user or not. That's game-play, and necessarily if you want to have non-force using classes in the game that can actually compete with force users. In Star Wars, the only non-force users that could regularly compete with force users were Mandalorians. (And the Vong, but I'll leave them for another day).

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