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Developers are WRONGFULLY replacing combat utlitities with skill choice dilemmas:


NovaStardust

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Currently, we have a sizeable skills menu and a separate combat utilities tree to choose from. This allows us to have a lot of freedom in the game to choose whatever kind of fighting style set-up we want to use; and to be more flexible and adaptive.

 

Yet, on the PTS, they seem to be greatly reducing a large number of combat utilities that we use. Furthermore, many combat utility choices are being replaced by skill ability choices instead - which does not make sense. The result is going to drastically limit our game play options in both areas and make us less adaptive:

 

The newer system will reduce our skill flexibility by forcing us, more than once, to choose one out of three different skills. Certain skills that we would normally be able to use together will no longer be an option. Where we now have access to all skills - some will soon be restricted to us - limited by these choice dilemmas they are forcing upon us. This situation where we are being forced to sacrifice use of one skill ability over another is wrong.

 

Furthermore, developers should NOT be replacing combat utilities with skill choices? Combat utilities SHOULD be use to 'amplify' existing skill abilities - not be replaced by them. What is wrong with the combat utilities we already have? I do not get it.

 

Please protest this change and insist that we continue to have access to ALL of our current skill abilities as they are now.

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Initially, we were told they wanted to do some ability pruning to streamline the game and make it easier for new players. I wasn't necessarily against it until I saw what they really meant. Nothing really got pruned they are just removing abilities you previously had access to and making you choose between them. I don't really understand the logic behind the change to be honest. It's not really making the game easier for new or old players, but just taking away options with how you deal with situations in game.
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From what I can tell I still have just as many DPS buttons to press, but lost my situational abilities. Which just makes it harder to solo or survive tougher fights. Nothing for making dps rotations less complex.

 

In the case of the jugg/mara they also limited mobility outside of combat by making mad dash a choice and completely removing hard stuns wich on a class that can only dps (mara) is nonsensical, if this goes live maras/juggs will be instantly laughed out of any sort of pvp match, do these devs even play the classes they are butchering for no goddammed reason?

People already always complain that maras are tunnel visioning morons, and now they go and remove any sort of utility we had in combat?

 

For the sake of "simplicity" and "streamlining" of abilities I am now forced to open another window mid fp's change 1 ability to another to be able to catch up with other people in the group and then change again for actual combat, why cant people that dont use mad dash or obfuscate or other **** they are forcing me to give up just not put them in their quickbars like they have already been doing? Why must I get screwed over on a game I have been playing for 9 years?

 

All the little stuff I was hyped for in this update has already been delayed to god knows when so all is left is watch this dumpster fire take place, happy 10 year anniversary!

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From what I can tell I still have just as many DPS buttons to press, but lost my situational abilities. Which just makes it harder to solo or survive tougher fights. Nothing for making dps rotations less complex.

 

See, when I thought to myself that there were too many abilities and I thought some of them should go away, they did pretty much the opposite of what my thoughts were.

 

Situational abilities should have stayed IMO, and they should have consolidated damage abilities (I can't talk for tanks and healers, I don't play them). Seriously, NOBODY needs 8+ damage abilities like I have on some of my sentinels and marauders!

 

So yeah, I think they went the wrong way with this. Unless their goal all along was to nerf everyone, then it succeeded.

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So yeah, I think they went the wrong way with this. Unless their goal all along was to nerf everyone, then it succeeded.

 

They didnt even succeed on that, since ops mercs and in some ways sins still have the cheeses the stuns and most of their kiting kit while juggs/maras are left with *********** nothing. If they wanna do that we at least should have higher dps than them but that is actually the opposite so no, this is a *********** fail fiesta unless their goal was to make operatives the king of the hill (witch given the current state of live is not so far fetched).

Edited by TevosisHot
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Yep, I addressed this a couple of months ago. I think that this game will go the opposite direction that Bioware thinks, if 7.0 drops as is. I for one will be canceling my subscription. IMHO, the game right now, is a very good game. Just needs bugs fixed and a few additions. And honestly, if they would have just increased the IR cap, no level increase is really needed. I like the Reknown system as is. I have been playing since launch, and have been through the thick and thin with this game. But 7.0 will be the last straw for me. I have 2 subs, and will cancel both.
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  • 2 weeks later...
I've asked them to remove skills like shoulder cannon and furious power that unpleasantly interrupts my train of thought while playing, and buff skills like chilling scream, not remove the active and passive skills that made the classes fluid and fun. My Immortal tank goes from being the most mobile in the game to becoming three times slower than the assassin and powertech with a massive loss to maintaining threat across the board. It's at the very least obvious that none of the devs play the class, or the game. Edited by Nilatis
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I've asked them to remove skills like shoulder cannon and furious power that unpleasantly interrupts my train of thought while playing, and buff skills like chilling scream, not remove the active and passive skills that made the classes fluid and fun. My Immortal tank goes from being the most mobile in the game to becoming three times slower than the assassin and powertech with a massive loss to maintaining threat across the board. It's at the very least obvious that none of the devs play the class, or the game.

 

Passives were the core problem though. Instead of dealing with the amount of passives tact onto everything they decided to take a hammer to all of it by removing a bunch of stuff and then making us "choose" between a set of iconic abilities that have been baseline since day 1. Its horrendous.

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The community and been b1tc41ng and complaining and posting about how bad the class changes are since BW introduced the first one back in July/August. I have tried some of them on the PTS myself and feel like I am playing with one arm tied behind my back.

 

It's akin to playing a current level 75 with level 50 abilities.

 

What has BW done, NOTHING!! They have completely ignored the community.

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Passives were the core problem though. Instead of dealing with the amount of passives tact onto everything they decided to take a hammer to all of it by removing a bunch of stuff and then making us "choose" between a set of iconic abilities that have been baseline since day 1. Its horrendous.

 

That may sound like a valid argument, at first, but when you look at what they did to all the tanks from a broader perspective, such as how they didn't give Shield Tech and Darkness the same treatment as they did Immortal, that's an argument that falls on deaf ears.

 

- Shield Tech has ONLY one hard choice and that's Hydrolic Override, which isn't a hard choice at all.

- Darkness doesn't have ANY hard choices at all.

- Immortal has MULTIPLE hard choices every step of the way, and had multiple important passives removed.

 

The playstyle of the Immortal felt fluid and unique to the other two, it was mobile and agile, but now it's just slow, and clunky, and lacks the abilities required to hold aggro.

 

- Powertech get to keep Flame Sweep, but Immortal has to choose if they want Sweeping Slash.

- Powertech get to keep Carbonize, but Immortal has to choose if they want Intimidating Roar.

- Immortal have to choose between Mad Dash and Saber Reflect, when both are highly needed in different situations.

- Why did they remove ALL of the run speed buffs?

- Enrage now behaves like a damage ability, that IMPLIES that we should use our taunts for DAMAGE instead of DEFENSE.

 

That last change especially can only have been made by a troll. I see no other way around it.

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How does what I say fall on deaf ears? Everything you posted literally validates my statement....

 

Passives were a problem, but instead they took an axe to everything and then came up with this awful tree system. PT's keep their aoe stun, so their single target stun at 73 becomes less difficult of a choice and makes picking HO easier. Marauders on the other hand lose roar and obfuscate making the choice between choke and undying ridiculously hard.

 

They could have left everything alone and only messed with passives. Stuff like scrappers where roll was fine, dodge is fine, but a roll with dodge and 100% immunity on top of it is stupid. Dodge having a reflect is stupid. Mercs with their reflect. The reflect is fine, but it didn't need a heal to full tact onto it.

 

If they fixed stuff like that then most of the problems with the pvp would have been fixed. DCD's and CC's were not a problem, its the fact that all the DCD"s had 2 or 3 passives attached to them.

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That may sound like a valid argument, at first, but when you look at what they did to all the tanks from a broader perspective, such as how they didn't give Shield Tech and Darkness the same treatment as they did Immortal, that's an argument that falls on deaf ears.

 

- Shield Tech has ONLY one hard choice and that's Hydrolic Override, which isn't a hard choice at all.

- Darkness doesn't have ANY hard choices at all.

- Immortal has MULTIPLE hard choices every step of the way, and had multiple important passives removed.

 

The playstyle of the Immortal felt fluid and unique to the other two, it was mobile and agile, but now it's just slow, and clunky, and lacks the abilities required to hold aggro.

 

- Powertech get to keep Flame Sweep, but Immortal has to choose if they want Sweeping Slash.

- Powertech get to keep Carbonize, but Immortal has to choose if they want Intimidating Roar.

- Immortal have to choose between Mad Dash and Saber Reflect, when both are highly needed in different situations.

- Why did they remove ALL of the run speed buffs?

- Enrage now behaves like a damage ability, that IMPLIES that we should use our taunts for DAMAGE instead of DEFENSE.

 

That last change especially can only have been made by a troll. I see no other way around it.

 

PTs get to keep Carb, but essentially lose their single target stun. Much like Juggs essentially losing Intimidating Roar (I don't see myself ever picking it over Reflect and Dash), but keep both of their single target stuns. And the choice for Sweeping Slash is a pretty easy one. The only choice I'm really pissed about on Juggs is Dash vs Reflect. If they were going to do us like that, it's insane to me that Sins get to keep all of their Shrouds. PTs have for quite some time been the forgotten tank (in PvE at least) so I'm fine with them not losing too much. (though doing Dxun without a single target stun will be annoying).

 

And there are some neat new toys to (partially) make up for some of the losses. The 2% extra DR for Aegis is basic, but solid enough, but the new Crushing Blow talent is really amazing. Providing 6 seconds of 10% DR to yourself (effectively reducing K/E damage by a little over 20% since that DR already sits at 50%+) and 10% DR to everyone within 10 meters. That's a pretty serious buff with a 50% uptime. How would you like to take 20 less damage of every tentacle slam in TFB? 20% less damage from two consecutive hand slams on Brontes?

 

As for Enrage, the way I see it is this: We can use enrage to reduce the cooldown of our taunts, the little damage on top is just a bit of gravy. Would have preferred the movespeed, but I understand curtailing mobility on Juggs. It was always supposed to be the most immobile of tanks.

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How does what I say fall on deaf ears? Everything you posted literally validates my statement....

 

When I say falls on deaf ears, I mean mine, as someone who has loved playing Immortal in PVE since the additional mobility active/passives were introduced. My argument was that they ONLY gutted the Immortal spec, so how on Earth does that validate your statement regarding, and I paraphrase, "too much fluff"? If there was "too much fluff" in the game, then they would've gutted the Shield Tech and Darkness specs as well, but they didn't. They have both their taunts, their AOE/cone abilities, speed buffs, everything. They lost nothing that they didn't already have before.

 

And there are some neat new toys to (partially) make up for some of the losses. The 2% extra DR for Aegis is basic, but solid enough, but the new Crushing Blow talent is really amazing. Providing 6 seconds of 10% DR to yourself (effectively reducing K/E damage by a little over 20% since that DR already sits at 50%+) and 10% DR to everyone within 10 meters. That's a pretty serious buff with a 50% uptime. How would you like to take 20 less damage of every tentacle slam in TFB? 20% less damage from two consecutive hand slams on Brontes?

 

Before 7.0: A total of 51.69% DR (100% uptime), from 42.16 (306 rating).

After 7.0: A total of 60.69% DR (50% uptime), from 43.19% (320 rating).

 

I then on average have (60.69 + 43.19) / 2 = 51.94% DR, meaning nothing has changed. Unless, of course, they expect me to play the cooldown game on the tentacle slams, sacrificing what little DPS I can offer to get us above the enrage timer in NiM, which means that the Juggernaut is now played identically to Powertech, instead of having a different playstyle of its own, the playstyle that I enjoyed to play.

 

Ps. I've lost 19.71% Defense. From 43.15% defense to a whopping 28.5%. Oh, and 10% shield chance and absorb. I seriously hope all the tanks lost this as well with the gear update.

Edited by Nilatis
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Before 7.0: A total of 51.69% DR (100% uptime), from 42.16 (306 rating).

After 7.0: A total of 60.69% DR (50% uptime), from 43.19% (320 rating).

 

I then on average have (60.69 + 43.19) / 2 = 51.94% DR, meaning nothing has changed. Unless, of course, they expect me to play the cooldown game on the tentacle slams, sacrificing what little DPS I can offer to get us above the enrage timer in NiM, which means that the Juggernaut is now played identically to Powertech, instead of having a different playstyle of its own, the playstyle that I enjoyed to play.

 

I'm not sure what's up with these numbers. But we've lost no passive DR boosts. Meaning we're just getting an additional 10% extra DR (as compared to other tanks). As with every expansion, they're rebalanced the stat curves, as we would otherwise have been in the 80% DR by now. I expect that we're going to reach a similar number as we had in 306 gear with max irating gear. So that 10% buff with a 50% uptime is very much relevant.

 

Ps. I've lost 19.71% Defense. From 43.15% defense to a whopping 28.5%. Oh, and 10% shield chance and absorb. I seriously hope all the tanks lost this as well with the gear update.

 

The gear and reblanced curves are the same for everyone. So yes, everyone has those same stat drops.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Ps. I've lost 19.71% Defense. From 43.15% defense to a whopping 28.5%. Oh, and 10% shield chance and absorb. I seriously hope all the tanks lost this as well with the gear update.

PT tank in 324/326 conquest gear mostly. Partially augmented with blue/purple. DR is 46.53% (19% as usual for internal/elemental), which is close to what I had pre 7.0, where it lingered at around 50%. Defense is 23.38%, which was at around 32% or so before 7.0, so be happy with your 28.5%. Shield 46.02%, absorb 36.21%. 370k HP. 320 gear had me at 343k HP iirc and clearly lower defense values.

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I agree with this.

Im not blasting them for it as i believe this came from over their heads with an eye on mobile gaming, also why they likely pruned so many... but active skills should not be in the trees, ever, only augments to them, in my opinion.

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