Jump to content

Premade PVP teams should be in either Ranked or a different class all together


Quitince

Recommended Posts

SWTOR is an MMO which means it is a multi player game where grouping up is a must not an option. If you want a Solo Game go play the other titles. Very easy.

 

SWTOR is pretty heavy on the solo game play.

 

...but PVP requires other players no matter how many solo modes BW comes up with. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

:rolleyes:

 

/5char

 

Congrats. The amount of characters in your response is clearly higher than your IQ.

 

For me, the big issue is that ranked PvP has a separate queue for groups. So why wouldn’t unranked have that? What reason is there to not have a separate queue for groups so premades can just fight other premades?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me, the big issue is that ranked PvP has a separate queue for groups. So why wouldn’t unranked have that? What reason is there to not have a separate queue for groups so premades can just fight other premades?

 

Cause Ranked is the high tier end-game very competitive game play.

Also when TR existed (atm it does not really exist) it was very disruptive, most guilds when they lose a couple players will transform to another guild etc.

The most long lasting guilds in TR when it was 8 man on ToFN where Harbinger, and MVPs, followed by Impulse.

The first two also lasted in S1 and S2 of ranked Arena. Impulse left the game at the start of 2.0, though some of its players still play online.

 

Asking for Grouping up in Ranked only is like making Operation in Nightmare Mode only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congrats. The amount of characters in your response is clearly higher than your IQ.

 

For me, the big issue is that ranked PvP has a separate queue for groups. So why wouldn’t unranked have that? What reason is there to not have a separate queue for groups so premades can just fight other premades?

 

says the man who boldly announces he need not analyze his own words.

 

the word "groups" as you use it in regs and ranked is disingenuous or misguided. in ranked, you're talking about a trinity team with picked healer, tank, and dps roles all designed to synergize with each other for maximum efficiency. in other words, you can't play "your class/spec." you play the class/spec that matches your team's very precise meta.

 

in regs, players group however they like. even when they're in a trinity group, you have players running around on dot spec PTs, PT/Sin tanks, etc. None of these specs even make an appearance in group ranked (well, PT tank actually did work in grp awhile ago, could still be useful). the dps certainly don't have to be tuned. It's often 2 glow sticks.

 

even more often, the 4-man groups in regs aren't even trinity. there's only 1 support role and 3 dps.

 

likewise, the number of players in a reg group is often 2 or 3 players, not viable in group ranked at all.

 

so no. your suggestion that "if they can do it in ranked, then can do it in regs" is simply false. it's based on faulty assumptions about how groups work and what they are composed of in regs vs. ranked.

 

that doesn't mean there aren't problems with reg matchmaking. but to create separate queues out of hand based on your premise about the separation between group and solo ranked is, quite frankly, wrong and based on false equivalence between premades in regs and group ranked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me start off by saying, why should we want to give up our premade when we can destroy those that aren't?

 

I'm no fool. I know first hand that not being in a premade is getting the crappy end of a stick. When I had to PUG, I learned fast I wasn't much better than those with me doing the same. I got destroyed like the others that solo queue.

Once I got into a steady premade, no matter the size of it, it made such a huge difference. I later discovered I could make a discord premades where we can get together and communicate and they weren't the wiser that the reason we were destroying them was because we were a premade.

 

You may argue that its a social game and you can be with your friends on the game and play with them by fighting against them in a warzone by getting in the queue separate. If you said this to me, you would be absolutely right. I play with friends in my competing games and its alot of fun here and in other games.

 

You my argue that I can form premades and do ranked and have premade vs premade, and you would be right.

 

But here's the rub. Why? Why should I do all the above when I can just premade with my friends and destroy pug. I don't think there is anything wrong about feeling good about dominating others even if I have an advantage. It feels freaking great doing it and its so much fun. I had to pug for a time so let them take their turn and go through the agony I went through.

 

Did we all get Poe'd or is this some r/SelfAwareWolves material? I mean, I cannot tell if this is saire or not.

 

Edit: Also, if "queue with literally anyone" is a workable strategy for getting a higher W/L ratio, it means Bioware didn't get the matchmaker right when they rewrote it, and they need to go back and do it again.

Edited by ALaggyGrunt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

says the man who boldly announces he need not analyze his own words.

 

the word "groups" as you use it in regs and ranked is disingenuous or misguided. in ranked, you're talking about a trinity team with picked healer, tank, and dps roles all designed to synergize with each other for maximum efficiency. in other words, you can't play "your class/spec." you play the class/spec that matches your team's very precise meta.

 

in regs, players group however they like. even when they're in a trinity group, you have players running around on dot spec PTs, PT/Sin tanks, etc. None of these specs even make an appearance in group ranked (well, PT tank actually did work in grp awhile ago, could still be useful). the dps certainly don't have to be tuned. It's often 2 glow sticks.

 

even more often, the 4-man groups in regs aren't even trinity. there's only 1 support role and 3 dps.

 

likewise, the number of players in a reg group is often 2 or 3 players, not viable in group ranked at all.

 

so no. your suggestion that "if they can do it in ranked, then can do it in regs" is simply false. it's based on faulty assumptions about how groups work and what they are composed of in regs vs. ranked.

 

that doesn't mean there aren't problems with reg matchmaking. but to create separate queues out of hand based on your premise about the separation between group and solo ranked is, quite frankly, wrong and based on false equivalence between premades in regs and group ranked.

 

Lol, maybe you should be the one to examine your words a bit harder before you vomit them onto a screen. Group ranked doesn’t work like Master Mode flashpoints. The game doesn’t just automatically build teams with those roles. People have to do that on their own. I’ve seen plenty of granked games with all dps teams or teams with no healer/tank.

 

Groups are made by players purposefully. You can easily have a group regs mode by having two 4-man premades go against two other 4-man premades on objectives. Arenas would function the same as ranked, just without the ELO consequences, because folks still need to get practice somewhere.

 

My point still stands immaculately. Meanwhile, your point about groups and their formation is “simply false” at best and sitting somewhere on the spectrum at worst. I don’t need to analyze my words because you’ve yet to present any sort of intelligent challenge to them that would make me do so. I’d continue this battle of wits with you, but in terms of intelligent and sensible thought, you’re waving a shiny yet dull steak knife at an armed nuclear bomb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no sweet pea. no.

 

just because you saw some ppl messing around with wacky comps in granked now and then doesn't make it a viable application of principle. you can roll with 4 healers. but it's a troll comp and actual group ranked players don't do it. there's a pretty infamous example from a while back. I can't remember the names except they did it to <lukewarm taun tauns> with 2 heals (iirc). which results in all the shaming and vitriol that you like so much about joining groups. so you would like to be able to solo queue...so that you could be put into a group...and not...talk to...or interact with...team- yeah. iunno wth you're on. but back to the issue at hand:

 

doesn't work like master mode? are you...like...sure? really? the group puts its team together on their own? wow. It's almost like I have said that a dozen times in each one of these "premades vs. pugs" threads that these aren't ranked comps or even whole premade half the time.

 

BW already tries to place premades on opposite sides in arenas. hell, they don't even have to try since it's 4m teams. however, skipping groups because there are no other groups in the queue (for reg arenas) is a non-starter because arenas only pop in the first place because there's a low population to pick from.

 

next, my dear...sweet...friend...I think you missed the part about granked selecting their classes and specs precisely. honestly, I don't know how you skipped over this as you say yourself that "people have to do that on their own" (regarding team selection). it's like you know that grank pick their own players but don't quite understand what that means. not only are they rolling trinity comps, but they're rolling specific compositions of specs that synergize with each other (e.g., pressure comps, hard swaps, etc.).

 

regs aren't like that in the slightest. 99% of the time (happy? b/c you've seen those super serious granked games w/o trinity?). premades in regs are w/e you feel like playing (and tbh, the ranked players who grp in regs are going to be well above average on any class/spec they play with in regs).

 

feel free to get back to me in another week after you've had someone copy edit your deeply thought-out, impeccably logical, and introspective post.

 

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few things:

The current Ranked season is over and the next one is a few months off at best.

You have an equal chance of being matched with a premade vs against them

Get gud

 

Please get gud at math. Suppose there are 16 players in the WZ que, 4 of them are in a premade and 12 of them are solo queuing. That means 8 of those players will not be with a premade and 4 of them will. So if you’re solo-queuing in this case your chance of being against a premade is 2/3 and your chance of being with a premade is 1/3. Or take the case where there are 8 people in the que and 4 are a premade and 4 are solo. In this case you have a 0% chance of being with a premade and 100% chance of being against one.

 

While these are just examples, in general your chance of being against a premade is much higher than being with a premade.

Edited by AwesomeTacoCat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not impressed by the premade gankers, they 4v1 at the spawn but lose the objectives.

They may get ~20 kills while i am doing ~15 solo/pug.

Wouldnt call them winners, if they loosing.

 

 

Why is ranked que so dead? Same ****, better loot.

Edited by Ikzdeh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cause they can’t 4v1 unsuspecting pugs. They probably aren’t good enough for ranked

 

on SF you can generally look at a gtag, even if you don't know the players' names from scoreboard, and know if they can handle it.

 

3v1 focused swapping is what ranked is, btw. (3 instead of 4 cuz there's usually a healer). you can get in good practice focus swapping in regs.

Edited by foxmob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

on SF you can generally look at a gtag, even if you don't know the players' names from scoreboard, and know if they can handle it.

 

3v1 focused swapping is what ranked is, btw. (3 instead of 4 cuz there's usually a healer). you can get in good practice focus swapping in regs.

 

You misunderstand. I mean 4 guys running all over the map to attack the 1 sole player off by themselves instead of attacking where they are needed. There is no hard swapping involved if there is no one else to swap to because they only attack solo guys.

 

And of course, if they were good, they’d be in the mix doing hard swaps and regs is where you can learn to do that better than ranked (except maybe team ranked). And considering it’s preseason, one would think they’d be better off practicing in granked instead of regs (unless they aren’t good enough and get instantly owned).

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You misunderstand. I mean 4 guys running all over the map to attack the 1 sole player off by themselves instead of attacking where they are needed. There is no hard swapping involved if there is no one else to swap to because they only attack solo guys.

 

i have literally never seen this. ever. I've seen ppl chase down solo individuals who ran away once they realized they were going to die and all their buddies had died. but I"ve never seen a premade cross the map just to kill one random solo. iunno. that's just...iunno what to say. I don't know wht games are like on DM and I haven't played on SS in years, but that's something I never seen.

 

that's significantly different from going off node and playing TDM away from doors or whatnot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have literally never seen this. ever. I've seen ppl chase down solo individuals who ran away once they realized they were going to die and all their buddies had died. but I"ve never seen a premade cross the map just to kill one random solo. iunno. that's just...iunno what to say. I don't know wht games are like on DM and I haven't played on SS in years, but that's something I never seen.

 

that's significantly different from going off node and playing TDM away from doors or whatnot.

 

It’s been 5 months since I pvp’d in any objective matches, so I can’t say if that still happens. But it was a regular occurrence on Star forge when I was still getting objective pvp maps (any pops I get from pvp these days is arena and I’m not pvping more than 20mins a week, if that)

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

never as in never in the life time of the game. a premade group stalking one player far away from any objectives. just some rando solo dude all by himself. and they go completely out of their way to do it? not just finishing a kill either?

 

iunno. I've had individual stalkers. hell, stalkuh got angry that I keep peeling off on him, so he spawn camped me for a match in hb. but 4m premade doing that. and regularly?

 

color me skeptical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

never as in never in the life time of the game. a premade group stalking one player far away from any objectives. just some rando solo dude all by himself. and they go completely out of their way to do it? not just finishing a kill either?

 

iunno. I've had individual stalkers. hell, stalkuh got angry that I keep peeling off on him, so he spawn camped me for a match in hb. but 4m premade doing that. and regularly?

 

color me skeptical.

 

The usual suspects are 4 man stealth squads. But not always.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You misunderstand. I mean 4 guys running all over the map to attack the 1 sole player off by themselves instead of attacking where they are needed. There is no hard swapping involved if there is no one else to swap to because they only attack solo guys.

 

And of course, if they were good, they’d be in the mix doing hard swaps and regs is where you can learn to do that better than ranked (except maybe team ranked). And considering it’s preseason, one would think they’d be better off practicing in granked instead of regs (unless they aren’t good enough and get instantly owned).

 

That... smells like harassment to me. Going out of your way to kill one specific person is pretty sus.

 

Of course, if you call them on it, you know they'll be all "so what, we can't kill other players in a pvp arena now?" and try to pretend they were playing as normal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That... smells like harassment to me. Going out of your way to kill one specific person is pretty sus.

 

Of course, if you call them on it, you know they'll be all "so what, we can't kill other players in a pvp arena now?" and try to pretend they were playing as normal.

 

It’s not harassment if they are not specifically targeting one person. It’s more they look for any loan wolf players and track and kill them instead of engaging the group.

 

Also, I need to be clear, this isn’t all the time or every day, so it’s not a game breaking problem.

My original reply regarding this behaviour was to point out that those that do it are probably not very good (that was my only point as I’m not complaining about them unless they are on my team and not pulling their weight ;)).

 

I’m also not saying it’s a wide spread problem as it’s something I might have seen a few times a week if I was unlucky.

If I noticed guys like that on the other team I would often go out of my way to pull them away from nodes or the group myself and make them try and chase me down so my team had a numbers advantage while 3-4 guys are busy chasing me.

You be surprised how easy it is to do in Hutt ball.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just started playing this game, and as soon as I try to PVP I see the same stuff going on as in other games,

premades vs casuals, good gear vs no gear, and than throw that in an organized match that supposed to be fair.

The ideea is wrong from the start. This works for open world pvp, but organized team pvp should be fair and if its not

i believe has a hidden marketing agenda that makes people spend money in the end...i dont know how this game works but thats how it is in most other unfair pvp games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say, with the addition of tacticals and (especially) amplifiers, the gear gap has widened quite a bit since 5.0. It's not as big as it was without bolster, but it's very noticeable. With almost all periodic intensity amps on a 6-piece concentrated fire set and one amplified piece, the DPS on IO merc increased for me around 20% (even though the total amp % is closer to 10%).

 

the only other problem I see with regs are these new rules about deserter debuffs. frankly, there's nothing I can do to "force" other players to play the objectives or to try during arenas. there's also nothing I can do about being dropped into OPG or another team purposely not scoring/capping doors to farm numbers. And hey, they pay their sub. they can play however they like. but forcing other players to sit through that instead of just leaving or forcing players to back fill (still a thing despite the deserter debuff) is truly infuriating. now that I have nearly optimized gear, I feel little compulsion to stick around, and if I do, I'll just afk and piss off one person or another.

 

edit: just tallied my period intensity amps. it's 15%. so yeah, those amps are really big. that 20% overall from gearing is about right

Edited by foxmob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These threads are a guilty pleasure.

 

~Both sides of the argument have their points. People should be allowed to group with friends in an MMO, including for PVP, but the people who gripe about premades aren't wrong that matches cease to be fair when that happens. That has more to do however with SWTOR prioritizing pop times over balanced matches, instead of making premade teams wait until another is available for an opposing team. IMO premading should come with an acceptance of potentially longer wait times if it means more balanced matches.

 

~Premades aren't any more likely to win than PUG teams, at least in 2021 where way too many players both PUG and Premade care about nothing except their leaderboard numbers. Sometimes the premades are a detriment to the team they land on because they spend an entire Huttball match fighting in a pit or spend an entire Voidstar defense round not fighting near doors and failing to catch up after they get capped on. It's really a coin flip whether the premade or PUG will play the objectives better.

 

~Where premades DO dominate, at least if they've got a very basic level of teamwork, is in damage output and kills. PUG players aren't going to get peels from DPS teammates and heals or guard are never guaranteed so the way that tends to work out is that the PUG player never fights one player from that premade, they end up fighting all three or four at once with little or no help. A PUG player can at times use that to their advantage by luring people away from objectives, but spending an entire match being tunneled by half the other team isn't exactly fun. When people aren't having fun, they tend to drop queue.

 

~That premades often dominate in the deathmatching the majority of the time has absolutely NOTHING to do with individual skill level. As much as people like to gripe about Ranked teams ruining Regs, the All-Star Ranked teams breaking the queue is about as rare as snow in Mexico City. The average reg premade is composed of players that are maybe Bronze skill level at best, and that is being generous for most. The average Regs premade is composed of players who aren't good enough to compete at a high level in Ranked. They win in the kills column because it is nearly always a numbers game because matchmaking doesn't wait to pit premades against premades. That team of 8 PUG players is going to be a team of individuals that isn't going to have the coordination to counter 3 or 4 premade players all focusing the same targets, and you don't need to be in voice chat to focus the same target.

 

~Heals & tank imbalances. Trinity premades aren't the norm but matchmaking breaks one enters the queue because more often than not they'll be pitted against a PUG team that has neither, instead of making them wait.

 

~The "We just want to play with friends" defense gets trotted out way too much. It has a kernel of truth to it, but let's be real. Most of the premade teams that stomp PUG teams on the regular drop queue themselves the moment one of the players from the PUG forms their own team of heavy-hitters through Discord or guild chat and turns the tables in the next match. Once they start getting farmed by another premade, they log off almost without fail. Or send nasty tells before quitting. Of course there are exceptions but on the whole it is as much or more about stomping PUG teams that don't stand a chance as playing with friends. Not sure if Eiekal's post was 100% serious or bait, but it doesn't really matter. The post is truth.

 

~Even if Bioware does nothing it all balances out in the end. You're going to get plenty of matches where the premade is on your team and the opposing one is a PUG. W/L also is determined more by which team plays the objectives better than whether or not a team has a premade. The exceptions are arena matches & maybe Ancient Hypergate, but that last one is winnable even if your team is losing the kill battle. There is some truth to the argument that people only complain about premades when they lose.

 

~"Make friends" is an an amusing meme response but most people playing solo aren't doing so because their friends' list is empty. Sometimes people just want to play solo so they won't be beholden to their friends' whims. Maybe they want to play the objectives for a change but their friends deathmatch, or vice versa, or they'd like to play through a Huttball match instead of following Moe, Larry, and Curly into a drop. Or maybe they're playing at a time of day when their friends or guildmates just aren't on yet. Maybe they just want to try out spec they aren't as familiar with without the pressure of needing to keep up with the Joneses. There are lots of reasons to queue solo & anyone who NEVER queues solo is just scared of playing solo.

Edited by Aeneas_Falco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic gets made every month and every month it gets ignored. This is an MMO. Creating any kind of barrier or penalty because people want to play the game with their friends would be the end of the game. Yes, it sucks when premades are trolling PUGs. Unfortunately, this is not WoW. Come back next month and this game will still not be WoW. World of Warcraft can afford to segregate its communities behind several walls and no one would notice because it has a gigantic population. SWTOR has a significantly smaller population. If premades could only fight other premades, then for people playing with their friends, regs would pop about as often as group ranked (not very often). The end.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might be worth stopping to pretend this is a real social game, if most of the content is for solo players. The premade players are not the majority, the majority are solo players. Is there a big price to pay for improving the quality of the game if a small fraction of the players wait longer? So far, a significant part of the players suffer from the actions of the minority. And here on the forum they constantly defend this ability to destroy casuals. According premade players they prefer competition anyway)

 

Make it possible to choose for solo players, as suggested above. If they want to play without groups, then let them play. If it turns out, that there are very few people, who want to play with premades, then the solo players majority satisfied with the current situation is a fiction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...