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GSF CQ points... Please refine to make them conditional in kills, damage...


farren_whyde

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...Because far too many people are just sitting on satellites, allowing themselves to be killed, not helping the team.

 

I get the need for CQ points. But you're in an MMO - other people are playing, remember? Things you do affect others, and their enjoyment of the game. You may not like GSF but other people do, and your rather selfish approach dampens the games. If you want CQ points, do something you enjoy? Preferably PvE based? You can easily grab points in other ways.

 

Mild rant over. Carry on.

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Well this is what we got. Certain people on these forums complained all summer GSF didn't give out enough Conquest. Now we have players that are in GSF exclusively for the easy 500k conquest points per week.

 

The problem is, what is more important for the GSF community at this point. Low conquest points and slow pops? or High conquest points and putting up with those that aren't there to actually participate or try to improve?

 

The answer to that will be different for each individual player, but I suspect most would take more matches, even tho we have to put up with players doing nothing in matches.

Edited by Toraak
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...Because far too many people are just sitting on satellites, allowing themselves to be killed, not helping the team.

 

Well, I'm not encouraging anyone to go AFK or to sit still while being shot at, but it is correct play that pilots should be staying as close to the satellites as possible. I don't want new, genuinely interested, players, thinking that it is ok to leave the satellites on a routine basis.

 

Furthermore, even if a new player is not familiar with GSF enough to know how to maneuver under a sat to avoid incoming fire, even if a player goes AFK, that satellite stays green. Please understand, I am not supporting degenerate play of any kind. But it is a fact that the longer a ship remains within the defender range of the satellite the longer it will remain under that team's control. It is true that a stationary target whose pilot is AFK will not survive incoming fire for very long. But on a Lost Shipywards match for example, where the spawn points are very close to A or C, those seconds could give enough time for an ATK pilot to respawn and get back to the sat.

 

A pilot under a satellite is, well, orders of magnitude more useful than an asteroid-collider.

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The age old question.

 

Do you want quality matches?

 

Or quantity?

 

Well, right now we have lots of matches, of low quality.

 

Most people, if they think about it, would take q1uantity over quality.

 

Ask Satele Shan pilots about that.

 

There for a good while, gsf was given up for dead there.

 

It barely has a heartbeat now.

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We did raise this during the conquest changes, and as expected, it did lead to more afk players.

 

TBH though, I don't think the afk players outweigh the amount of new participating players by a long shot, leaving us in a better place overall. While I was a supporter of earning x medals rather than being on the winning team, not sure I would change it at this point.

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...Because far too many people are just sitting on satellites, allowing themselves to be killed, not helping the team.

 

I get the need for CQ points. But you're in an MMO - other people are playing, remember? Things you do affect others, and their enjoyment of the game. You may not like GSF but other people do, and your rather selfish approach dampens the games. If you want CQ points, do something you enjoy? Preferably PvE based? You can easily grab points in other ways.

 

Mild rant over. Carry on.

 

I’m not sure what server you fly on, but I’ve never seen this kind of thing. At least I’ve never seen it in any capacity that could cost a team a match. For every one person going AFK there’s at least five or six people working hard. Besides, once these people get their points, they’re gone. Let’s not risk the devs doing to GSF what they did to PvP and making it ‘wins only’ for dailies, weeklies, and CQ. This community is small enough as it is.

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Actually, there are many rants in discord on how many zeros show up on the scoreboard after a match.

 

So, you are evidently turning a blind eye to it, or you arent expecting much at all in any team mate.

 

Im talking, at least half a team with one or two medals or less, 10 percent accuracy and maybe 2k damage if any at all, along with 7-10 deaths.

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Actually, there are many rants in discord on how many zeros show up on the scoreboard after a match.

 

So, you are evidently turning a blind eye to it, or you arent expecting much at all in any team mate.

 

Im talking, at least half a team with one or two medals or less, 10 percent accuracy and maybe 2k damage if any at all, along with 7-10 deaths.

 

If they truly want CQ points then they will try getting a win and medals for more points. Beyond 3 deaths (each on different ship types) the CQ system encourages trying to win.

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If they truly want CQ points then they will try getting a win and medals for more points. Beyond 3 deaths (each on different ship types) the CQ system encourages trying to win.

 

why would they care? Most of them are there for the 5 matches played in each ship type

Fly 5 matches in a scout 85k conquest with 10% guild perk, + 150% SH bonus

Fly 5 matches in a bomber 85k

Fly 5 matches in a GS 85k

Fly 5 matches in a Strike 85k

 

These are the Conquest objectives players are going for. If you replace these with earning medals we may get more quality of players, but I'm sure you'll get less players in the queu. So as I said in my 1st post. We need to decide Quality matches or Quantity of matches. Which of these do we really want?

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Well this is what we got. Certain people on these forums complained all summer GSF didn't give out enough Conquest. Now we have players that are in GSF exclusively for the easy 500k conquest points per week.

 

 

 

The irony of this is funny, and i remember those threads very well. They wanted CQ, they wanted more people, etc. That's what you got, and just like in pvp, etc, you will get people that will do the minimum amount. At least in PvE content, if someone is hiding in an op, or fp, you can sometimes kick them.

 

Maybe do to gsf what you did to pvp, and make it just wins? It worked so well for pvp /sarcasm*

*just in case some don't understand.

 

You can't really make it conditional on kills, not everyone will get a kill, especially starting out, it would be like making only pvp kills count, and as we know there, there are already too many people ignoring objectives.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: You also have <Starfighter: Conquer the Skies> , which is just a match, not even a win. I'm surprised more people are playing GSF.

Edited by DarkTergon
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I remember how bad it was a few years back - the leeching isn't nearly as bad these days from what I've seen -- at least as Satele goes. I haven't been on Starforge enough lately to be a fair judge there and I definitely can't speak for the other servers.

 

I have seen a lot of newer pilots, and I've seen them struggle but that's to be expected.

 

The problem with making them conditional is that it does more harm than good. You may be able to target the leechers but ultimately you're going to catch a lot of legitimate players under that umbrella too. Punishing new players for not having experience makes no sense for a gameplay mode that's always been in need of more players.

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why would they care? Most of them are there for the 5 matches played in each ship type

Fly 5 matches in a scout 85k conquest with 10% guild perk, + 150% SH bonus

Fly 5 matches in a bomber 85k

Fly 5 matches in a GS 85k

Fly 5 matches in a Strike 85k

 

These are the Conquest objectives players are going for. If you replace these with earning medals we may get more quality of players, but I'm sure you'll get less players in the queu. So as I said in my 1st post. We need to decide Quality matches or Quantity of matches. Which of these do we really want?

 

Which is why I said 3 deaths? You think I don't know how conquest works? Beyond those 3 deaths you have a chance to earn more or risk getting kicked for inactivity/reported for throwing.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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Which is why I said 3 deaths? You think I don't know how conquest works? Beyond those 3 deaths you have a chance to earn more or risk getting kicked for inactivity/reported for throwing.

 

To be honest, You seldom see people getting kicked. Not enough people bother to vote kick, and if you even suggest it they just SD and get rid of the timer or just fly into a sea of red.

 

The fact is. They aren't looking to improve or participate at all. If BW were to remove the fly 5 matches per ship type, and replace it with an infinite repeatable for 50 medals for an example. Most of these same people would just move on to the new easiest conquest objectives.

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To be honest, You seldom see people getting kicked. Not enough people bother to vote kick, and if you even suggest it they just SD and get rid of the timer or just fly into a sea of red.

 

The fact is. They aren't looking to improve or participate at all. If BW were to remove the fly 5 matches per ship type, and replace it with an infinite repeatable for 50 medals for an example. Most of these same people would just move on to the new easiest conquest objectives.

 

It's harder to get medals in gsf than pvp, especially for new players, or just crap ones like me...lol.

I've played gsf for the last couple of days, the CQ points are amazing, but it's a hard game mode to get in to. It has a steep learning curve. The way the CQ points are at the moment, it's surprising you don't have more people just riding the CQ wave in there, a guild could set up multiple teams, and have people farming thousands(+) of points.

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It's harder to get medals in gsf than pvp, especially for new players, or just crap ones like me...lol.

I've played gsf for the last couple of days, the CQ points are amazing, but it's a hard game mode to get in to. It has a steep learning curve. The way the CQ points are at the moment, it's surprising you don't have more people just riding the CQ wave in there, a guild could set up multiple teams, and have people farming thousands(+) of points.

 

It’s not just that it has a steep learning curve. It’s that there are no actual in-game tutorials that cover what to do in an actual fight, or how to effective load out your ships. That information has be acquired from Google or YouTube, and even then, not all of the info is there. For example, it took me three years to learn how the aiming system actually works. Three years! Before that, I was just getting lucky.

 

With that kind of system in place, new pilots are discouraged from really getting into GSF. Having easier CQ objectives keeps them around longer and possibly inspires them to do research to get better.

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It’s not just that it has a steep learning curve. It’s that there are no actual in-game tutorials that cover what to do in an actual fight, or how to effective load out your ships. That information has be acquired from Google or YouTube, and even then, not all of the info is there. For example, it took me three years to learn how the aiming system actually works. Three years! Before that, I was just getting lucky.

 

With that kind of system in place, new pilots are discouraged from really getting into GSF. Having easier CQ objectives keeps them around longer and possibly inspires them to do research to get better.

 

CQ made me hold multiple GSF teaching events for my guildies. I think I got like 20 people playing GSF because of it and some even stuck around.

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The age old question.

 

Do you want quality matches?

 

Or quantity?

 

Well, right now we have lots of matches, of low quality.

 

Most people, if they think about it, would take q1uantity over quality.

 

Ask Satele Shan pilots about that.

 

There for a good while, gsf was given up for dead there.

 

It barely has a heartbeat now.

 

Some want to see a bit more vibrant, lively GSF scene with a steady influx on new people giving it a go. I'd guess most think this a huge net positive, even if it means having new pilots doing new pilot things and some..tragically demotivated conq farmers in the mix? Others would rather see GSF that looks less appealing in terms of rewards. They'd sacrifice stuff like SS pop on altar of match quality and turn GSF into a bit more exclusive thing, where pops become more and more rare, arranged and "scheduled" outings among vets who all know one another. Apparently latter option appeases some abstract immaterial GSF quality god who smiles only if everybody flying knows what they are doing. Latter group luckily has quite a versatile custom game mode at their disposal, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

Most here can prolly agree that best, most fun matches happen when both teams are evenly matched. You get there by having both of them equally good.. or equally bad. Even matches are where couple of unmotivated conquest farmers from everybody's nightmare scenario end up accidentally having some fun and contributing and liking gsf. That's where typical new pilots and vets alike find their fun and learning experiences. "Good match" doesn't require some high influx of super talented GSF prodigies..it needs teams that are approx as bad. Or as good. Really good, experienced pilots directly translate their mad gsf skill into better/more fun matches only if you can fill the entire match with them. Luckily there is an excellent custom game mode just for that. Good matches aren't about " high quality" as much as they are about "equal quality".

 

 

When it comes to quantity of great matches..well, all of these thigs are pretty anecdotal. Of late, I've seen much more extremely tight Dms and sat games than I did during, say, last summer/fall. "Ok, this match is over" hasn't been happening in set up screen as often as it did through last year.

 

CQ made me hold multiple GSF teaching events for my guildies. I think I got like 20 people playing GSF because of it and some even stuck around.

 

 

That's great! Held such event too few weeks back to my guildies. I can't boast with such huge numbers tho, 20 ppl dragged to GSF is lots, nice! I bet we all are witnessing some degree of renewed interest to GSF atm. No doubt it'll lead to occasional new pilots being new and not getting a dang thing done. How terrible. No doubt it'll lead to occasional conquest farmers showing up there and sitting afk. Part of life and cost of a bit more popular game mode.

 

In recent test center feedback thread many people, myself included, kept asking for gsf conq objectives tied to performance. That stuff lines up nicely with spirit of pvp. I think having ship eternal-things replaced with kills, assists, medals etc would be an improvement. Or atleast I'd find it more fun on personal level. Current set up is very friendly towards new pilots, which ofc has a ton of merit..and its conq-related downsides.

Edited by Stradlin
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I can sympathize. I played with a pilot that was intentionally self destructing as soon as they spawned so they could respawn as a different class of ship so one match would tick 1/5 per class by the end. It doesn't help during a domination match, but it can really hurt in a team death match as kills/deaths are 1/50th of the score, and if you have several players doing it, you're up/down pretty significantly.

 

I spit on those players. Just play that ship until you're dead or if things are going really good, self destruct then swap.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I can sympathize. I played with a pilot that was intentionally self destructing as soon as they spawned so they could respawn as a different class of ship so one match would tick 1/5 per class by the end. It doesn't help during a domination match, but it can really hurt in a team death match as kills/deaths are 1/50th of the score, and if you have several players doing it, you're up/down pretty significantly.

 

I spit on those players. Just play that ship until you're dead or if things are going really good, self destruct then swap.

 

SD doesn't count as kills, at least when I've crashed it never counted. I've never done it deliberately, just not a great pilot lol

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SD doesn't count as kills, at least when I've crashed it never counted. I've never done it deliberately, just not a great pilot lol

 

I don’t know what game mode/map to which you are referring DT, but it is absolutely the case that in any of the Team Deathmatch maps, when a player self destructs it is counted as a death for that player’s team. Some people grief the system by intentionally self-destructing, making it impossible for their team to win.

 

Also, in domination, deaths of the red team add a small amount of points towards the green team’s total. In theory, if satellites are never captured, the match would be decided on those points when it is finished.

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I don’t know what game mode/map to which you are referring DT, but it is absolutely the case that in any of the Team Deathmatch maps, when a player self destructs it is counted as a death for that player’s team. Some people grief the system by intentionally self-destructing, making it impossible for their team to win.

 

Also, in domination, deaths of the red team add a small amount of points towards the green team’s total. In theory, if satellites are never captured, the match would be decided on those points when it is finished.

 

It was death match, will keep a better eye on it, but I was certain my crashes didn't count :(

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  • 4 weeks later...
If people SDing to get all four classes in a match is a problem... make the CQ objectives for "fly 5" only count the first class you fly, "Start 5 GSF matches flying a ____"

 

Or just remove those 4 conquest objectives, and replace them with something like:

1) Defend a sat for 2 mins in 5 different GSF matches.

2) Get 4 kills in 5 different GSF matches.

3) Get 4 assists in 5 different GSF match.

4) Get 20k damage in 5 different GSF matches.

 

You may think these may be way to high for beginning players, but once you learn how to aim getting 4 kills, assists, and 20k damage really isn't very hard.

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Or just remove those 4 conquest objectives, and replace them with something like:

1) Defend a sat for 2 mins in 5 different GSF matches.

2) Get 4 kills in 5 different GSF matches.

3) Get 4 assists in 5 different GSF match.

4) Get 20k damage in 5 different GSF matches.

 

You may think these may be way to high for beginning players, but once you learn how to aim getting 4 kills, assists, and 20k damage really isn't very hard.

 

In test center thread, stuff like GSF version of Rampage was suggested. Get 10 kills or assists for Rampage I. 20 for rampage II and so on.

 

 

Destroying turrets in sat games would prolly be better than defending sat. Rewarding defense of a sat encourages/rewards passive afk gameplay you wanna get rid of. Picking powerups could prolly be a nice DM equivalent of destroying satelites. Neither of these objectives are perfect either; They are very attainable to Scouts and Strikes way less attainable to bombers for one. It'd still be as good as it gets when it comes to rewards from various match objectives.

 

Current Strike/Scout/Etc pilot ding would be perfectly fine too..if only they locked this stuff behind medals earned. So you'd have to earn X medals in a match as a Strikefighter(for example) for it to count towards Strike Pilot conq ding.

Edited by Stradlin
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if you want to condition the weelky to kill or other condition you will lose all the new players who arrive in gsf and who do few kills or medals. it's already hard for new players to arrive in gsf if you condition this to kill or other condtion you will stay in your elitist world without new players who will want to come. I regularly do gsf on dm and see players come out of 20k damage is rare or get 1 or 2 medals often a lot of players have 0 medals. you do what for it is players you ignore them they do are below your criteria so will never end the weekly or daily it's really nice for them Edited by darkzannah
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