I completely forgot you're limited to one set of gear in your inventory. Apologies.

 

Can i ask you a serious question? Do you use tank armorings too? That Guardian Slash buff in vigi is OP AF.

He probably only does content where gear barely matters anyway. Naked or in tank gear, he'll be fine

I completely forgot you're limited to one set of gear in your inventory. Apologies.

 

Can i ask you a serious question? Do you use tank armorings too? That Guardian Slash buff in vigi is OP AF.

Yeah I do. Thing is my Guardian isn't even my main. I hit legendary a while back and my Guardian is something I fool around with. And actually I could keep up to 3 sets of armor, but that's just a royal pain in the area for an alt character. Don't get me wrong. I do like my guardian. So much so I actually am redoing the story(out of boredom) and currently about to finish chapter 2(again). But yeah once I get him back to 70, just going to load up on tank mods and leave him there so if I do go into group content with him, dont have to worry about what equipment I need.

If it takes me a bit longer in vig because I have tank mods, so be it.

He probably only does content where gear barely matters anyway. Naked or in tank gear, he'll be fine

Pretty much. In solo doesn't really matter. I just personally like the Vigilance tree, but I know most people need a decent tank in group so why gimp them?

Again can we please stop recommending people who want to dps run skanks? 2 nights ago I had a match with 3 of my guys. The 4 pugs were 3 skanks and a tank. I was the only person in the match (a full length voidstsr) to break a mill protection.

 

Just... If you want to dps, do it in a spec that can kill things. If you insist on skanking learn to tank.

There's nothing wrong with that advice when its true atm, a skank will stay alive longer and do more damage. Sure they waste potential if you aren't guard swapping, taunting and peeling, but every DPS wastes potential when they don't do those things anyways, doesn't change the fact that you'll still usually help your team more as an Immortal in DPS gear than a Vengeance or Rage. Fact is the only reason to consider a DPS Jugg in PvP over a tank spec in DPS gear is if you queue with a healer and maybe tank as well and can focus things down with your team.

That's good that you understand how to do tank things. I do too. Do we deserve medals? Meanwhile, on average if I could pick teammates, I'd rather have a Jugg with DPS gear in immortal even if he sucks at taunting/guarding/peeling, than a Jugg with DPS gear as Veng/Rage and is just as bad at those things. Because survivability always matters, and if I really wanted things to die fast other classes do it better anyways.

There's nothing wrong with that advice when its true atm, a skank will stay alive longer and do more damage. Sure they waste potential if you aren't guard swapping, taunting and peeling, but every DPS wastes potential when they don't do those things anyways, doesn't change the fact that you'll still usually help your team more as an Immortal in DPS gear than a Vengeance or Rage. Fact is the only reason to consider a DPS Jugg in PvP over a tank spec in DPS gear is if you queue with a healer and maybe tank as well and can focus things down with your team.

 

That's good that you understand how to do tank things. I do too. Do we deserve medals? Meanwhile, on average if I could pick teammates, I'd rather have a Jugg with DPS gear in immortal even if he sucks at taunting/guarding/peeling, than a Jugg with DPS gear as Veng/Rage and is just as bad at those things. Because survivability always matters, and if I really wanted things to die fast other classes do it better anyways.

I had a match like this. 4 skanks. I had 2 million protection. The other 3 didn't so much as taunt. And had the nerve after the match to complain that I died more and did more damage than them, who were supposed to be "dps tanks".

The damage thing is because of sheer survivability. The dps calculation of damage done total / total time is an obvious benefit to whoever lives the longest and has the most uptime on targets. In addition generally if I'm tanking, I'm also probably in the middle of things where dps are probabky picking people off. These all make a result on damage boards.

If you want to dps go dps. If you insist on skanking learn to guard/swap, taunt, etc.

Maybe we have differences of opinion but I'd rather have a good vigi/focus guardian over a tank that doesn't know how to tank any day.

Further if you're guarding as a dps guardian you're most likely doing something wrong. Taunt away sure. But guarding? That's a good way to die in seconds.

I had a match like this. 4 skanks. I had 2 million protection. The other 3 didn't so much as taunt. And had the nerve after the match to complain that I died more and did more damage than them, who were supposed to be "dps tanks".

 

The damage thing is because of sheer survivability. The dps calculation of damage done total / total time is an obvious benefit to whoever lives the longest and has the most uptime on targets. In addition generally if I'm tanking, I'm also probably in the middle of things where dps are probabky picking people off. These all make a result on damage boards.

 

If you want to dps go dps. If you insist on skanking learn to guard/swap, taunt, etc.

 

Maybe we have differences of opinion but I'd rather have a good vigi/focus guardian over a tank that doesn't know how to tank any day.

 

Further if you're guarding as a dps guardian you're most likely doing something wrong. Taunt away sure. But guarding? That's a good way to die in seconds.

We don't have a difference of opinion, what you're saying is they need to L2P but that applies to DPS as well. A DPS that doesn't taunt or peel is just as bad as a tank that doesn't do those things, they don't get a pass from me because of their spec. Still would prefer a bad Immortal player over a bad Vengeance player.

That being said, its sad how crappy Vengeance is right now. Played a couple matches with it the other day, the only thing its good for is dot spreading for fluff, its dots don't even hit hard enough to apply real pressure, and there's just no burst at all now that Ravage is no longer a big hitter. If I play Immortal I can do the same type of damage, but I actually have burst to kill things with, and I can take more damage. The only things I lose out on is doing big fluff damage in dogpiles at mid (still do decent there) and taking slightly longer to kill someone in a 1v1, but neither spec is killing anyone fast in 1v1's anyways so its not like you're really changing much.

Rage can give burst, but the Marauder version is better in almost every possible way. And old Vengeance at least had burst potential with Ravage, if you time an Impale or Vicious Throw to go off right after the last tick of Ravage you could pack a lot of damage into a small window, nothing like that exists now, and the spec doesn't have any true hard hitters since everything also applies a dot. Its like playing a Madness Sin now but with weaker dots and no stealth, really boring.

Also you keep saying Immortal only does big damage because it stays alive longer so it has greater uptime, but this is circular logic, like yeah its true, but being able to maintain uptime is half the battle for dealing damage. It matters, and is something that you always take into consideration, its why for a long time ranged were greatly preferred to melee DPS in many operations, because they could continue to apply damage more freely than melee in many fights. And in PvP, survivability is always a key factor in the damage you deal.

EDIT: And there's absolutely nothing wrong with situationally guarding as a DPS guardian if you know what you're doing and trust the person you're guarding, typically a healer but can vary. There are definitely times where loaning someone 50% of your HP is more beneficial than not doing so, even as a DPS. Are you maintaining it all the time and guard swapping like a tank would, no, but if you're not using it at all you are wasting a valuable tool.

Again can we please stop recommending people who want to dps run skanks? 2 nights ago I had a match with 3 of my guys. The 4 pugs were 3 skanks and a tank. I was the only person in the match (a full length voidstsr) to break a mill protection.

 

Just... If you want to dps, do it in a spec that can kill things. If you insist on skanking learn to tank.

This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

But sometimes I guess you can’t have everything your own way as it’s part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you can’t deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.

This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

 

But sometimes I guess you can’t have everything your own way as it’s part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

 

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you can’t deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.

I kind of agree with this, that being said this has been an issue since launch that Bioware has never cared to balance. Its extremely difficult to find the proper balance anyways, a trinity is fine for PvE since everyone has their role but in PvP its so dynamic that designing something that fits in all scenarios is almost impossible.

This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

 

But sometimes I guess you can’t have everything your own way as it’s part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

 

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you can’t deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.

The people that used stance dancing as a short defensive thing I didn't mind too much. It was the ones who did it claiming to be tanks thst bugged me.

That said, there do seem to be more issues now than before for dps guardians. The terrible scaling/ninja nerf to focused defense was just the beginning.

Not directed to you, but I want to say it anyway.

As I said on the PvP forum, dps in warzones is calculated with no consideration of the amount of time spent in actual combat. It's damage dealt total / match time total. The match time is the same for all players regardless. Thus it comes down to total damage dealt. Well if you're dying constantly, you're probably not getting much combast time in. And thus not doing much total damage. Naturally, my tank is more survivable and thus gets more damage total.

This is less of a comparison to the ranged v melee uptime on ops bosses that favor ranged, and more of a comparison to a dps that dies and thus the tank gets more total damage. Can't dps when dead after all.

This is why I keep saying part of this fix to skanks needs to address dps specs of tank capable classes survivability/inability to survive any kind of focus.

If you include only the amount of time spent in combat (no consideration of "down time" due to kiting etc) my vigi guardian will have more dps than my skank any time any day and by no small margin.

shame as always every convo's highjacked by anger mongers. you know who you are.

thanks to those with constructive input.