"Compromise"? RP'ers should "compromise"? Why should RP'ers be the only ones to "compromise"? What are you willing to "give up" as a compromise for your coveted "megaserver"? So far, I have not seen one thing you've been willing to "give up" or one "compromise" you've been willing to make. Your posts have pretty consistently been all about getting your coveted "megaserver".

 

Why are you unwilling to "compromise" even enough to let RP'ers have a single server on which they can play without having to be overly worried about

We have already talked about this. You want us to give up server merges and megaservers, that is the only thing that you will accept which is again no compromise because those in favour of server merges get nothing. That is the sole thing you will accept as a compromise. If you were willing to truly talk about a compromise we could talk reasonably about what we could give you in return. But you are simply not willing, all you do is set up ultimatums and refuse to budge even a milimeter.

Also, to all rp'ers saying they will leave if server merges happen, consider this: you claim that server merges will kill rp, however, if you collectively leave it will be YOU AND ONLY YOU who kill the RP community because you'd even refuse to try out whether things are truly as bad as you fear it would be. So if the RP community does die it will be because you left, not because server merges occured, but because your pride got in the way and you didn't get your way. I say this not with ill will, it is just a sad thing I have come to realise.

We have already talked about this. You want us to give up server merges and megaservers, that is the only thing that you will accept which is again no compromise because those in favour of server merges get nothing. That is the sole thing you will accept as a compromise. If you were willing to truly talk about a compromise we could talk reasonably about what we could give you in return. But you are simply not willing, all you do is set up ultimatums and refuse to budge even a milimeter.

 

Also, to all rp'ers saying they will leave if server merges happen, consider this: you claim that server merges will kill rp, however, if you collectively leave it will be YOU AND ONLY YOU who kill the RP community because you'd even refuse to try out whether things are truly as bad as you fear it would be. So if the RP community does die it will be because you left, not because server merges occured, but because your pride got in the way and you didn't get your way. I say this not with ill will, it is just a sad thing I have come to realise.

Would it not be the same then to say that PVPers and Raiders who left the game destroyed group content. I just do not understand what the problem is with having 2 servers per coast. One presumably high population server where random group content occurs and one lower population server where RP and planned group content occurs.

Ylliarus;9385699]We have already talked about this. You want us to give up server merges and megaservers, that is the only thing that you will accept which is again no compromise because those in favour of server merges get nothing. That is the sole thing you will accept as a compromise. If you were willing to truly talk about a compromise we could talk reasonably about what we could give you in return. But you are simply not willing, all you do is set up ultimatums and refuse to budge even a milimeter.

Both sides are doing this. It is not one sided, so please stop saying it is only one side. Pro Merger people are just as stubborn and want what they want no matter what. Anti-Merger are the same. It is not a one-way street as you are trying to make it sound like.

There have been suggestions to have 2 or 3 different servers depending on the area (West, East, European) but no this is not good enough for the Pro-Merger side. They want 1 server no matter what. There are connection issues as well to be considered and just because some have no connection issues doesn't mean that others don't but they don't want to listen.

This is a good compromise but yet the Pro-Mergers don't see it like that so they keep insisting no only 1 server and they don't care about connection issues for others.

We have already talked about this. You want us to give up server merges and megaservers, that is the only thing that you will accept which is again no compromise because those in favour of server merges get nothing. That is the sole thing you will accept as a compromise. If you were willing to truly talk about a compromise we could talk reasonably about what we could give you in return. But you are simply not willing, all you do is set up ultimatums and refuse to budge even a milimeter.

 

Also, to all rp'ers saying they will leave if server merges happen, consider this: you claim that server merges will kill rp, however, if you collectively leave it will be YOU AND ONLY YOU who kill the RP community because you'd even refuse to try out whether things are truly as bad as you fear it would be. So if the RP community does die it will be because you left, not because server merges occured, but because your pride got in the way and you didn't get your way. I say this not with ill will, it is just a sad thing I have come to realise.

Actually, I am in favor of NO server merges and leaving the choice of server and server population up to the individual player.

Server merges would take that CHOICE away from many players.

Note, discussing this "compromise" is not an endorsement of it.

The "compromise" I was discussing is merging the 10 US servers into 4--one PVE/PVP server on each coast and one RP server on each coast. That would consolidate most of the respective populations on each coast while leaving ping times relatively stable.

That would leave RP'ers a "safe haven" to RP, while also forcibly moving many players from the servers with populations and communities that fit their preferences.

But, I guess in the eyes of some who covet a "megaserver", not blindly agreeing to a complete and total "megaserver" means not willing to discuss compromise.

I think some of those advocating server merges or a "megaserver" have a fear that if people had any choice not to be on a "megaserver" or a high population server with a toxic community, they would choose another server, even if that meant an RP server.

Let's be honest, no one is FORCED to be on their current server. Each and every player is on their current server BY CHOICE.

If everyone (or even most players) wanted a "megaserver" or an overcrowded server with a toxic community, then why are the populations so spread out?

I'll reply to all the above comments without quoting because basically they say the same.

I am talking about megaservers and strongly support it because I am thinking about this game in the long run. Let's say we go down to four servers in USA and 2 servers on Europe (one pve and the other rp), how long will it take until we end up at exactly the same spot we are in today? It might take a year or two, I agree, but then we are in the same spot with dead servers like today. It would be more efficient to solve this problem now and have security and certainty in one go and not continue having a fragmented playerbase.

Look at ESO, there are megaservers there and the RP community is thriving there. I rarely hear from my friends who went there that there are issues with trollers or toxic people. If it works there I don't see why it couldn't work in SWTOR. You immediately assume it will be the apocalypse when server merges occur, but you wouldn't even give it a chance to see if it could be made to work.

I'll reply to all the above comments without quoting because basically they say the same.

 

I am talking about megaservers and strongly support it because I am thinking about this game in the long run. Let's say we go down to four servers in USA and 2 servers on Europe (one pve and the other rp), how long will it take until we end up at exactly the same spot we are in today? It might take a year or two, I agree, but then we are in the same spot with dead servers like today. It would be more efficient to solve this problem now and have security and certainty in one go and not continue having a fragmented playerbase.

 

Look at ESO, there are megaservers there and the RP community is thriving there. I rarely hear from my friends who went there that there are issues with trollers or toxic people. If it works there I don't see why it couldn't work in SWTOR. You immediately assume it will be the apocalypse when server merges occur, but you wouldn't even give it a chance to see if it could be made to work.

I thought we were talking about compromise. Again you have stated a no compromise position of one megaserver. How can you ask others to compromise when you are unwilling to do so. And if the server merger doesn't work out, what then. There aren't going to be server splits because you would have to reactivate hardware you deactivated (if it is even available again since all servers are outsourced). I still fail to see any compromise here.

I'll reply to all the above comments without quoting because basically they say the same.

 

I am talking about megaservers and strongly support it because I am thinking about this game in the long run. Let's say we go down to four servers in USA and 2 servers on Europe (one pve and the other rp), how long will it take until we end up at exactly the same spot we are in today? It might take a year or two, I agree, but then we are in the same spot with dead servers like today. It would be more efficient to solve this problem now and have security and certainty in one go and not continue having a fragmented playerbase.

 

Look at ESO, there are megaservers there and the RP community is thriving there. I rarely hear from my friends who went there that there are issues with trollers or toxic people. If it works there I don't see why it couldn't work in SWTOR. You immediately assume it will be the apocalypse when server merges occur, but you wouldn't even give it a chance to see if it could be made to work.

Once again, I see only talk of a "megaserver". I see NO offers of "compromise", just a "megaserver".

Thank you for proving my point.

I thought we were talking about compromise. Again you have stated a no compromise position of one megaserver. How can you ask others to compromise when you are unwilling to do so. And if the server merger doesn't work out, what then. There aren't going to be server splits because you would have to reactivate hardware you deactivated (if it is even available again since all servers are outsourced). I still fail to see any compromise here.

Thanks for saying that more adequately than I could. They want a compromise but only if it gets them what they want. That is not a compromise. That is them having their way.

I thought we were talking about compromise. Again you have stated a no compromise position of one megaserver. How can you ask others to compromise when you are unwilling to do so. And if the server merger doesn't work out, what then. There aren't going to be server splits because you would have to reactivate hardware you deactivated (if it is even available again since all servers are outsourced). I still fail to see any compromise here.

Because in that specific comment I did not mean to talk about compromises but highlight something what I believe would be a consequence of keeping in each region a seperate RP server. I also don't want to talk about compromises anymore because I already know they will be discarded if they don't involve a seperate server for the RP community. I am just warning you that we may end up exactly at the same spot we are in today of we don't switch to megaservers. I just hoped to have RP again but also be on a highly populated server, but if I can't have that then I'll just stick to the Red Eclipse.

Also, you forgot to say anything about me pointing to ESO where megaservers and the RP community work just fine

Once again, I see only talk of a "megaserver". I see NO offers of "compromise", just a "megaserver".

 

Thank you for proving my point.

Because it is futile to talk about compromises because you (the RP community) won't accept anything that doesn't involve a seperate RP server.

Because in that specific comment I did not mean to talk about compromises but highlight something what I believe would be a consequence of keeping in each region a seperate RP server. I also don't want to talk about compromises anymore because I already know they will be discarded if they don't involve a seperate server for the RP community. I am just warning you that we may end up exactly at the same spot we are in today of we don't switch to megaservers. I just hoped to have RP again but also be on a highly populated server, but if I can't have that then I'll just stick to the Red Eclipse.

 

Also, you forgot to say anything about me pointing to ESO where megaservers and the RP community work just fine

I wasn't talking about RP in particular but making a more general comment about compromise. If the two sides are 1 megaserver and no merges at at, then a reasonable compromise is some mergers. Yes, you might end up back in the same place years down the road but that is what compromise is all about. Personally, I don't think we would get there. I think the game is nearing its minimum population. Pretty much what is left is hardcore Star Wars people and a continuing flux of new players coming and old players leaving.

I wasn't talking about RP in particular but making a more general comment about compromise. If the two sides are 1 megaserver and no merges at at, then a reasonable compromise is some mergers. Yes, you might end up back in the same place years down the road but that is what compromise is all about. Personally, I don't think we would get there. I think the game is nearing its minimum population. Pretty much what is left is hardcore Star Wars people and a continuing flux of new players coming and old players leaving.

It makes no difference in the end.

Some people simply will not accept anything other than what they want and covet, and when their refusal to compromise is pointed out, they can only try to throw up a distraction and attempt to cast blame on the "other side".

It makes no difference in the end.

 

Some people simply will not accept anything other than what they want and covet, and when their refusal to compromise is pointed out, they can only try to throw up a distraction and attempt to cast blame on the "other side".

And it seems it applies to both "sides" of this issue, as well as to people like me as to those opposing server merges.

I think some of those advocating server merges or a "megaserver" have a fear that if people had any choice not to be on a "megaserver" or a high population server with a toxic community, they would choose another server, even if that meant an RP server.

I have thought about this also I believe pro Merging players fear that people won't move willingly or even move away and that their 'mergers' do nothing to their populations if players actually have the free choice. I have also always suspected it's why players don't want solo operations because they fear fewer players would actually run the group version.

I have thought about this also I believe pro Merging players fear that people won't move willingly or even move away and that their 'mergers' do nothing to their populations if players actually have the free choice. I have also always suspected it's why players don't want solo operations because they fear fewer players would actually run the group version.

Because that is what is going to happen. If people will have the choice to move or not things will stay exactly the same and the problem will persist and the boat will continue to sink with us on it. We could all get to the lifeboats and get to safety, this metaphor being server merges or megservers which will secure the game's population stability for a very long time. But if we don't well then we'll continue to sink, not as swiftly and catastrophically but the game will slowly choke.

I hope that the Dev team will be smart and choose "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few". As cruel as it sounds I am simply tired with arguing with the people from the RP community. It was the reason why I abandoned the RP community on the Progenitor, I wanted to help them with their declining recruitment of players to their guilds but instead their pride and arrogance got in their way and were my answer. The RP'ers say they fear the trollers so much but honestly there are many snakes among them sadly (not referring to any people here but those on the Progenitor, don't know how it is on Ebon Hawk)

Because that is what is going to happen. If people will have the choice to move or not things will stay exactly the same and the problem will persist and the boat will continue to sink with us on it. We could all get to the lifeboats and get to safety, this metaphor being server merges or megservers which will secure the game's population stability for a very long time. But if we don't well then we'll continue to sink, not as swiftly and catastrophically but the game will slowly choke.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are advocating taking away a player's CHOICE of server so that you can have the "megaserver" that you covet? Only those that desire server merges or "megaservers" can choose or have what they want, everyone else must suffer so the pro server merge crowd can have their server merges or "megaserver"?

"Your way" or nothing?

I hope that the Dev team will be smart and choose "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few". As cruel as it sounds I am simply tired with arguing with the people from the RP community. It was the reason why I abandoned the RP community on the Progenitor, I wanted to help them with their declining recruitment of players to their guilds but instead their pride and arrogance got in their way and were my answer. The RP'ers say they fear the trollers so much but honestly there are many snakes among them sadly.

"The needs of the many outweigh those of the few"?

If so many would choose to stay where they are, or not voluntarily move to a higher population server, it sounds to me like the "many" would be those who would choose to stay where they are and the "few" are those that rely upon the LFG tool for their group content.

"The needs of the many outweigh those of the few"?

 

If so many would choose to stay where they are, or not voluntarily move to a higher population server, it sounds to me like the "many" would be those who would choose to stay where they are and the "few" are those that rely upon the LFG tool for their group content.

You want to hear what you want to hear. There are many people in favour of server merges, there are just a few very loud voices in this thread because I always see the same account names fighting against server merges and there aren't that many of them. You say those in favour of merges are few, but if that were the case then don't you think we wouldn't have had this thread? Or attention from the Dev team? I don't want to sound hostile but don't delude yourself in thinking you're being the majority, because you're not. I'm sure someone with official numbers can confirm this or one of the Bioware Influencers.

You want to hear what you want to hear. There are many people in favour of server merges, there are just a few very loud voices in this thread because I always see the same account names fighting against server merges and there aren't that many of them. You say those in favour of merges are few, but if that were the case then don't you think we wouldn't have had this thread? Or attention from the Dev team? I don't want to sound hostile but don't delude yourself in thinking you're being the majority, because you're not. I'm sure someone with official numbers can confirm this or one of the Bioware Influencers.

Actually no one side can state with absolute authority they are in the majority as many individuals don't come to the forums for one reason or another. For my guild, I am the one that comes to the forums as they hate the forums due to this kind of mess so for anyone to state they speak for the majority is false no matter what either side wants to say or believe.

You want to hear what you want to hear. There are many people in favour of server merges, there are just a few very loud voices in this thread because I always see the same account names fighting against server merges and there aren't that many of them. You say those in favour of merges are few, but if that were the case then don't you think we wouldn't have had this thread? Or attention from the Dev team? I don't want to sound hostile but don't delude yourself in thinking you're being the majority, because you're not. I'm sure someone with official numbers can confirm this or one of the Bioware Influencers.

Why keep feeding the obvious trolls? There are some people here who have zero interest in truth or debate.

You want to hear what you want to hear. There are many people in favour of server merges, there are just a few very loud voices in this thread because I always see the same account names fighting against server merges and there aren't that many of them. You say those in favour of merges are few, but if that were the case then don't you think we wouldn't have had this thread? Or attention from the Dev team? I don't want to sound hostile but don't delude yourself in thinking you're being the majority, because you're not. I'm sure someone with official numbers can confirm this or one of the Bioware Influencers.

I'm not saying that no one wants server merges.

The reality is that, even in this thread, most of the posts either for or against server merges are made by the same few people on either side.

Now, answer this:

If so many want server merges and/or want to play on higher population servers, then why are they not transferring to the higher population servers now, and why would they choose to remain where they are if BW chose not to force everyone onto a single "megserver"? You have even admitted that many would choose to avoid the "megaserver" if they were given a choice? Why is that if so many want server merges and higher populations?

Wait which is it then? If it's true that the majority is pro merge why did you also say that you think players would stay where they are given the choice? Surly the so called majority would all move.

Of course, but we still would end up with a divided playerbase as we have now. That is why I would love to see everyone move, because then all of us can get into the analogy lifeboats. I want all of us to be part of this game, I want everyone to have a place in this game. But if both sides refuse to budge we'll all go down with the figurative sinking ship.

Actually no one side can state with absolute authority they are in the majority as many individuals don't come to the forums for one reason or another. For my guild, I am the one that comes to the forums as they hate the forums due to this kind of mess so for anyone to state they speak for the majority is false no matter what either side wants to say or believe.

True. The matter in front of us would be sending a cohesive and crisp "majority message" to BW about SWTOR population impacts and what's best for a majority of players including old, new subs, and f2ps and what is best for this platform long term. A clear message to BM to make the best strategic decision now to permit this game to be around longer than shorter.

I'm not saying that no one wants server merges.

 

The reality is that, even in this thread, most of the posts either for or against server merges are made by the same few people on either side.

 

Now, answer this:

 

If so many want server merges and/or want to play on higher population servers, then why are they not transferring to the higher population servers now, and why would they choose to remain where they are if BW chose not to force everyone onto a single "megserver"? You have even admitted that many would choose to avoid the "megaserver" if they were given a choice? Why is that if so many want server merges and higher populations?

Again you misintepret and change my words. I said that I would view a megaserver as the most optimal solution, but server merges is what most of the people in favour of it want.

And you very much know why people don't move yet, because strongholds, guilds and character renames aka technical issues have to be solved worst. You're trying to prove me wrong so badly that you have forgotten your own arguments as to why you're against server merges amongst others. I also want server merges or megaservers only on the moment they have fixed all the technical issues regarding character name duplicates, strongholds not transferring along or entire guilds moving. Until then I don't want server merges either, but the moment they solved those issues I see no more barricades to move.

True. The matter in front of us would be sending a cohesive and crisp "majority message" to BW about SWTOR population impacts and what's best for a majority of players including old, new subs, and f2ps and what is best for this platform long term. A clear message to BM to make the best strategic decision now to permit this game to be around longer than shorter.

And that is the problem. There is no majority to send a message which is why this continues to go back and forth as it does. Both sides claim to have the majority but the bickering back and forth pretty much proves there isn't one. There is really nothing more this thread can contribute because it is the same old arguments for and against that have gone on since the thread started.