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Most powerful Sith Lord ever (essential read)


S_W_LeGenD

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Though I will say drat, noticed in my thread some of the comic scans don't work anymore thanks to the site change. But the feats are still there anyway. But anyway was just to clear up anything, that someone might have said about Vitiate being the most powerful sith ever, I can agree he is the most powerful in this time seeing as everyone by comparison are a bunch of piss ants. Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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However, what is does mean is that Vitiate can hold a candle to Sidious and then some, which some people don't seem to want to believe. It also means that canonically Vitiate is more powerful than the likes of Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Nomi Sunrider, Thon etc. Which is very enlightening indeed.

 

It didn't change my opinion of Vitiate... But then, this is stuff I already knew.

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First of all, the key word in the accolade is "ever" and not "history." The word "ever" leaves room for creative liberties in the future content for a character in this position. Therefore, their is no right and wrong answer in this case.

 

Another point is that authors who write these books are aware of other books and what have been written in them. They respect the continuity but they also have the option to exercise creative liberties when they feel necessary.

 

My perspective is that giving too much credence to outdated sources is not a good idea; I am not saying that canon information in old sources should be ignored (not at all) but latest developments should be kept under check and assessment be made accordingly.

 

My intention here is not argue in favor of who should be the most powerful Sith Lord in the saga. I just brought a neutral and canonical perspective in to this discussion.

 

I somebody asks me that who will beat each other in single combat?

 

I would say that both Tenebrae and Sidious can win or loose depending upon various factors since both are canonically TOP-TIER Sith Lords.

Ever, history? I see them as the same thing, because the books are written in such a context that 'history' only means up until the point that this book's context is i.e. the Old Republic era. But yes this is what I'm saying, there is a degree of flexibility because I could stick a character in-between Vitiate and Sidious and say he's more powerful than Vitiate, and stick a character after Sidious and say he's more powerful than both of them.

 

That said... this quote is rather interesting:

 

"The ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see."

 

'Would ever' would imply now and into the future AKA including Sidious. However at the same time I'm not sure when they say 'dark side nexus' they are referring to Vitiate alone or Vitiate + 8,000 Sith Lords.

 

Else we have a conflict in canon. Hmm.

 

Oh and well done for this, unfortunately those who raise points of this kind usually do so in a subjective and immature manner, which doesn't do them any favours because it means canonical statements such as these have been overlooked.

 

On the other hand if I were to make a subjective choice, I'd choose Sidious. Firstly I think he should be the most powerful because, well, he's Emperor Palpatine. The pinnacle of the Rule of Two, the villain of all villains, the only Sith to succeed in conquering the galaxy and destroying the Jedi.

 

Also, his feats are that much more impressive. Especially Force storm which is effectively the most powerful dark side power in existence, something Vitiate could not perform. (Or at least we assume as he has not done it and would have come in handy for his plan to committ galaxy wide genocide.)

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Nothing Vitiate has done compares to what Sidious has done. Get over it.

I respectfully disagree. Sidious's distinguishing factor is his ability to conjure up Force Storms after he transformed in to an immortal entity like being; he learned this secret but was able to utilize it after gaining immortality. Though he isn't the only one to have acquired this talent. It is unclear if Vitiate had acquired this talent but his knowledge of the dark side was so immense that he was in the position to make necessary arrangements to transform himself in to an omnipotent godlike being but he was stopped on time.

 

Vitiate and Sidious advanced in power in different ways and their talents diverge. However, they still have a lot in common.

 

Guys, why has this erupted into a flame war within 2 pages? Why can't we all be civil and discuss this like reasoned people? Like it or not the OP is using canon sources to back up his point, and he is not ramming home the idea that Vitiate is more powerful than Sidious and demanding you accept it.

 

He's not a Revan fanboy, well he might be but he's not coming across as a Revan fanboy. Revan after all can be described as 'mighty' and 'legendary'. He's already been described as legendary by a canon source book, and 'mighty' is a very subjective word. So lets lay of the hate when its undeserved. This thread has nothing to do with Revan.

 

I can't say I agree with everything the OP says, but I do respect the canon quotes for what they are - objective. And they should therefore be treated as such. So yes, lets just have a reasoned objective debate here. Thank you.

 

P.S. The majority of comments made in this thread are only fueling the stereotype that we are crazed Lucas fanatics etc. its not doing us any favours.

Thanks. Revan have been described as "mighty" in canon.

Edited by S_W_LeGenD
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Also, his feats are that much more impressive. Especially Force storm which is effectively the most powerful dark side power in existence, something Vitiate could not perform. (Or at least we assume as he has not done it and would have come in handy for his plan to committ galaxy wide genocide.)

 

The argument will be that Vitiate's story needs expanding. While true, we can't just claim him to be able to do something that he has shown no capability of doing (or at least to such a scale).

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Vitiate and Sidious advanced in power in different ways and their talents diverge. However, they still have a lot in common.

 

And Sidious is still winning. I won't deny Vitiate to be very powerful, but he simply doesn't have what it takes to be the most powerful Sith Lord. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

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And Sidious is still winning. I won't deny Vitiate to be very powerful, but he simply doesn't have what it takes to be the most powerful Sith Lord. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Winning or loosing is subjective assessment. Tenebrae have better combat feats then Sidious actually.

Edited by S_W_LeGenD
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...I can agree he is the most powerful in this time seeing as everyone by comparison are a bunch of piss ants.
I'm confused. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, Exar Kun, Revan, Meetra, Ulic, Thon, the Hero of Tython, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Nomi Sunrider, the Dread Masters (I could go on) are piss ants? The Old Republic era is host to some of the most powerful Force users in galactic history, reaching levels of power not seen until the prequel era.
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Winning or loosing is subjective assessment. Tenebrae have better combat feats then Sidious actually.

 

Defeating Master Yoda? Defeating Luke Skywalker? Killing three Jedi masters in seconds?

 

Vitiate never had the chance, yes I know. But the same could be said for Sidious against Vitiate's foes.

 

Of course Vitiate has the whole JK Act 2 thing going for him, but those guys weren't on the same level as Yoda or Luke Skywalker.

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The argument will be that Vitiate's story needs expanding. While true, we can't just claim him to be able to do something that he has shown no capability of doing (or at least to such a scale).

 

Problem is the down play of the skill he has done .............. I mean what Vitate did to that planet as a child is impressive . Does not make him more powerful than Sidious but to not give it respect is just asking for a war of no meaning . As all other threads become when people start ignoring certain canons and calling them little or nothing.

 

Vader had the Ability to be the most powerful ever and yet he did not do this , does this make Vader less , certainly not .

Vader killed many powerful Jedi , Vitate was so powerful no one wanted to challenge him and those who did died . Well other than Malgus who was also well feared in the Empire.

 

You might not have to like or agree with it but if you cannot allow one canon to hold to make a point than the debate is pointless.

My best friend for 24 years is a Comic DC and Marvel Canon freak and hates everything Movie wise around those universes .

Told me that the "Man of Steel" sucked .

Well I thought it was good and it was nice to see a change . I cannot wait to see what they do with Lex or Doomsday . (If my theory holds out the third Superman movie in this series will have Doomsday !)

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I'm confused. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, Exar Kun, Revan, Meetra, Ulic, Thon, the Hero of Tython, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Nomi Sunrider, the Dread Masters (I could go on) are piss ants? The Old Republic era is host to some of the most powerful Force users in galactic history, reaching levels of power not seen until the prequel era.

 

I am saying during THIS time Beni, this moment of time right here where its taking place. Not speaking of the entirety.

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I am saying during THIS time Beni, this moment of time right here where its taking place. Not speaking of the entirety.
That still leaves quite a lot of powerful figures, in fact Malgus, Shan and the Dread Masters are probably the most powerful out of the bunch.

 

But anyway, I listed all of them because according to the SWTOR Encloypedia he outranks them all.

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I'm confused. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, Exar Kun, Revan, Meetra, Ulic, Thon, the Hero of Tython, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Nomi Sunrider, the Dread Masters (I could go on) are piss ants? The Old Republic era is host to some of the most powerful Force users in galactic history, reaching levels of power not seen until the prequel era.

 

Again this is where the Lucas following differs from others .

 

What some see as impressive and others do not out of spite ...........well its silly.

 

Exar Kun out of all those names is a well respected Star Wars EU villain ............. but according to current Canon Vitate would be more powerful than him on every Level .

Again this is not saying Vitate is more powerful than Sidious before someone mistakens what I am saying and or puts words into my mouth .

 

If people cannot respect all of Canon but only bits and pieces when they like it , then the debate is pointless !

Edited by mefit
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Winning or loosing is subjective assessment. Tenebrae have better combat feats then Sidious actually.
I would disagree here, Vitiate doesn't seem that skilled with a lightsaber. He was defeated by the Hero of Tython in lightsaber combat and against Revan didn't even seem to possess one. He's more of scholar, he draws his power from rituals and Sith magic and while this does not make him at all weak, such abilities are not very useful in a pitched battle.

 

Sidious on the other hand is a master of all seven lightsaber forms and has gone up against the best in his time. I think this constitute better combat abilities.

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That still leaves quite a lot of powerful figures, in fact Malgus, Shan and the Dread Masters are probably the most powerful out of the bunch.

 

But anyway, I listed all of them because according to the SWTOR Encloypedia he outranks them all.

 

Satele Shan has stated that she is weaker then the Jedi Knight, and how her power waned and now she is more of just a leadership role.

 

Malgus....I guess so.

 

The Dread Masters only seem to really be impressive when together as far as I can recall, I haven't seen much of them.

 

So out of the 3 Malgus is the more powerful, unless you count groups then I guess the Dread Masters but even then that only seems due to their one ability they can focus on.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Satele Shan has stated that she is weaker then the Jedi Knight, and how her power waned and now she is more of just a leadership role.

 

Malgus....I guess so.

 

The Dread Masters only seem to really be impressive when together as far as I can recall, I haven't seen much of them.

 

In her prime, Shan was a boss. Malgus is Malgus.

 

The Dread Masters are powerful, but they were captured. How? I can't remember.

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Have we even seen Shan in her prime?....

 

Uhh...I think they were captured by a Republic Strike team?

 

Comics most likely, but her showings in Hope were superb.

 

I think Jaric Kaedan captured them? I don't know. I should have delved more into their story, but I didn't because I don't like them.

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In her prime, Shan was a boss. Malgus is Malgus.

 

The Dread Masters are powerful, but they were captured. How? I can't remember.

 

It is likely by the Emperor as they are no fan of his .

 

They are also more proof that the Vitate Empire is falling apart . As their release and Malgus separating show Vitate is losing control over his Empire.

Sidious held a tight Grip over his till almost the point of death.

Again for someone so Evil , Sidious Empire was the most order ever in the history of the Galaxy .

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Comics most likely, but her showings in Hope were superb.

 

I think Jaric Kaedan captured them? I don't know. I should have delved more into their story, but I didn't because I don't like them.

 

As a Jedi Knight she was there...if that was her prime then...

 

Ya...a Jedi Knight and a Republic SF team captured the Dread Masters...

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Comics most likely, but her showings in Hope were superb.

 

I think Jaric Kaedan captured them? I don't know. I should have delved more into their story, but I didn't because I don't like them.

 

Your Right it was Kaedan.

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As a Jedi Knight she was there...if that was her prime then...

 

Ya...a Jedi Knight and a Republic SF team captured the Dread Masters...

 

Usually Rayla would correct us on Shan :p

 

Perhaps the Dread Masters aren't as effective as they seem. Or maybe Kaedan and some Republic soldiers are better than they seem.

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It is likely by the Emperor as they are no fan of his .

 

They are also more proof that the Vitate Empire is falling apart . As their release and Malgus separating show Vitate is losing control over his Empire.

Sidious held a tight Grip over his till almost the point of death.

Again for someone so Evil , Sidious Empire was the most order ever in the history of the Galaxy .

 

Sith Empires are usually inferior to the Republic, solely based on leadership. They usually fall apart.

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