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need to post a official sticky about this or a post

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
need to post a official sticky about this or a post

Groncho's Avatar


Groncho
03.09.2012 , 12:15 PM | #51
Open Pvp should be only for the fun of it. it means, puting the oposing faction out of the area...nothing else..... basic objectives

u PvP because u find it more exciting than killing Npc's not to gather stuff and u "daylies"

Some ppl dont care about them....

You have other controlled enviroments to do another kind of compettive pvp

Sadly, most ppl cant forget about grinding, ask for incentives etc....

Sadly they pay for a game and cant find the way to enjoy it but they trully can find a way to complain
Che
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MartyrLXXVII's Avatar


MartyrLXXVII
03.09.2012 , 12:17 PM | #52
Cool, a post from BW...

As for ideas about how to make open world pvp better... A third faction, period.

Ask anyone that played WAR how well open world pvp works with just two imbalances factions.

Beyond that it'll obviously need good incentive, not something you can get any other way. But if you have the incentive and the populations stay imbalanced then the weaker faction is just going to whine and quit.

Alxandria's Avatar


Alxandria
03.09.2012 , 12:28 PM | #53
I had a random thought, this is not remotely fleshed out, I literally just had it, but what about a sort of RvR system similar to what existed in DAoC (I played this a long time ago so maybe it changed since I quit but this I what I remember)

Each faction (true there were three) faction had their own back yard. They had bases, artifact keeps, and choke points (wall).

What if you change that into a sort of Massive fleet battle. You battle across various ships to gain control of their systems (maybe need to control bridge, engineering, and weapons) to turn auto mated defenses to your side. You have to hop ship to ship (like different taxi point, maybe a choke point). Have a ship that is unreachable, basically your safe spawn point. Make controlling your ships easier to gain control the close to your main ship they are.

Example. Republic Spawn Ship - Republic Main Ships - Small Republic Ships - Repub Merc Ships - Imp Merc Ships - Small Imp Ships - Imp Main Ships - Imp Spawn Ship.


Could be there are more than one in any teir. Gaining control of systems on a Merc Ship is equally hard for either faction. Small Ships are easier to own faction, Main Ships are very easy to gain control for own faction.

I have no idea if this works, but could it be refined to work?

SirRowdy's Avatar


SirRowdy
03.09.2012 , 12:34 PM | #54
I like the DAOC model myself
1. have a relic base, capture relic for small 3% bonus to healing or dps,
2, defend relic at our base.
3. cut taxi ride to relic bases buy taking small outposts that can be defended buy small groups.( this draws out small groups to farm )
4. choke points a must.

what make this work so well is the 3% bonus to heals or dps also help in PvE.
This brings out the people that just PvE to help get the relic ( then they go do a flash point on hard mode.) they have some skin in the game to come help defend relic.
Lets Bust Some Skullz

Delphis's Avatar


Delphis
03.09.2012 , 12:45 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by EternalFinality View Post
Of course world PvP is being thrown out - nothing about the game was designed with world PvP in mind.
I disagree completely. If you look at most of the videos from the show season last year, it is clear that Bioware was marketing PvP a great deal.

The problem that Bioware has is that they fail to deliver.

There is no doubt in my mind that the BW lead design team meant to include a fully fleshed out and immersive pvp experience since the very beginning of the game. They even hired the Mythic team who's experience revolves around pvp-centric games (DAOC, Warhammer).

They just flat out failed, especially with Ilum. What we see now is an admittance that Ilum is horribly flawed and a resolution to improve it at some future date. I doubt anyone is holding their breath.

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
03.09.2012 , 12:48 PM | #56
Quote:
I disagree completely. If you look at most of the videos from the show season last year, it is clear that Bioware was marketing PvP a great deal.
You can disagree all you want. They said one thing and did another. They did NOT design for world PvP.

AstralProjection's Avatar


AstralProjection
03.09.2012 , 12:52 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Alxandria View Post
I had a random thought, this is not remotely fleshed out, I literally just had it, but what about a sort of RvR system similar to what existed in DAoC (I played this a long time ago so maybe it changed since I quit but this I what I remember)

Each faction (true there were three) faction had their own back yard. They had bases, artifact keeps, and choke points (wall).

What if you change that into a sort of Massive fleet battle. You battle across various ships to gain control of their systems (maybe need to control bridge, engineering, and weapons) to turn auto mated defenses to your side. You have to hop ship to ship (like different taxi point, maybe a choke point). Have a ship that is unreachable, basically your safe spawn point. Make controlling your ships easier to gain control the close to your main ship they are.

Example. Republic Spawn Ship - Republic Main Ships - Small Republic Ships - Repub Merc Ships - Imp Merc Ships - Small Imp Ships - Imp Main Ships - Imp Spawn Ship.


Could be there are more than one in any teir. Gaining control of systems on a Merc Ship is equally hard for either faction. Small Ships are easier to own faction, Main Ships are very easy to gain control for own faction.

I have no idea if this works, but could it be refined to work?
This is a cool idea, would take a lot of thought to make it combat-ready, but I like it.

I was thinking something like this - Central Space Station Grants Buff. Ops must dock with the space station and access something to achieve the buff. They start spawning on a cruiser a good distance away. Once they have the buff, they must defend both the central location, and their ship, which is now docked with the station and can be attacked by the enemy by planting bombs on the docking tubes, sending them back to the far away start point on their main ship with no chance to respawn in the center.

Keeping your ship docked by defending the docking tubes would keep you able to respawn on the space station to defend your buff. It would help combat the "Zerg" mentality by making whoever controlled the buff have to split their force in two, or risk losing the buff. It wouldn't completely prevent it, but hopefully would be enough to discourage it.

This central space station would be very large - possibly even a ship-killing/planet razing sized weapon capable of doing something more than a buff.

I was thinking having the faction in control of it slowly move in range of the enemy fleet (very Star Warsy) the longer they held it. If they could hold it for a long time, say, an hour straight, they blow up the enemy fleet, making the zone reset, but also providing a small faction-wide buff to something, and a broadcast message in chat stating that the Republic or Empire has won the battle of XXXX.

Of course, ideally, you'd have to have a third faction or have factional balance better addressed, and/or remove any and all gear ties from it, or else it would just become another Ilum.

Ilum didn't work mainly because it was tied to gear acquisition, IMO. Since gear acquisition is currently the only point of the game until we get fun RvR, people were more inclined to figure out ways to exploit it to get the best gear than to actually fight each other and care about who wins or loses.
PAX REPUBLICA
SWTOR Thread Guild Website
Softcore PVP with Hardcore Determination
Prophecy of the Five | Poet Warlord | International Guild

Alxandria's Avatar


Alxandria
03.09.2012 , 12:55 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by AstralProjection View Post
This is a cool idea, would take a lot of thought to make it combat-ready, but I like it.

I was thinking something like this - Central Space Station Grants Buff. Ops must dock with the space station and access something to achieve the buff. They start spawning on a cruiser a good distance away. Once they have the buff, they must defend both the central location, and their ship, which is now docked with the station and can be attacked by the enemy by planting bombs on the docking tubes, sending them back to the far away start point on their main ship with no chance to respawn in the center.

Keeping your ship docked by defending the docking tubes would keep you able to respawn on the space station to defend your buff. It would help combat the "Zerg" mentality by making whoever controlled the buff have to split their force in two, or risk losing the buff. It wouldn't completely prevent it, but hopefully would be enough to discourage it.

Of course, ideally, you'd have to have a third faction or have factional balance better addressed, and/or remove any and all gear ties from it, or else it would just become another Ilum.

Ilum didn't work mainly because it was tied to gear acquisition, IMO. Since gear acquisition is currently the only point of the game until we get fun RvR, people were more inclined to figure out ways to exploit it to get the best gear than to actually fight each other and care about who wins or loses.
If the fleet idea were only for PvP, nothing else, no daily PvE at all, what if the time to complete objectives, scaled with how many people of your faction were there. Since the zone is only PvP, the more people you have, the longer it takes, or the harder it gets for objectives to complete.

Delphis's Avatar


Delphis
03.09.2012 , 12:59 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by EternalFinality View Post
You can disagree all you want. They said one thing and did another. They did NOT design for world PvP.
I think you missed my point. In the software world you have a designer. And then you have a developer. Two different people/teams.

The game designer says, "Make an immersive pvp experience that has the following elements."

The game developer codes and says, "Here you go, I hope you like it."

The game player says, "Ilum failed miserably and you should fire your game designers and developers. You should have also chosen a more robust software engine. Hasta la vista."

AstralProjection's Avatar


AstralProjection
03.09.2012 , 01:00 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Alxandria View Post
If the fleet idea were only for PvP, nothing else, no daily PvE at all, what if the time to complete objectives, scaled with how many people of your faction were there. Since the zone is only PvP, the more people you have, the longer it takes, or the harder it gets for objectives to complete.
Yeah, that could work as well, though the key to not pissing people off is always minor buffs/adjustments. Enough to feel like you get an improvement, but not so much that it makes it unfair or exploitable somehow.

I added a couple ideas to my post above as well that I didn't properly articulate. The broadcast message I mentioned usually is surprisingly helpful in shoring up people for world PVP.

It evokes that "Oh Crap, those Imps (Pubes) are at it again!" response, and anyone feeling "bored", heads over to stop it.

Very basic stuff. Telling the people on Ilum that one side controls Ilum with an annoying RW style message doesn't help.

Most of the Ilum messages that lag you to death could've been summed up with a big red "DERP!" that comes over your screen periodically.

Tell the people in a defense channel that someone controls a planet who are elsewhere, offplanet and a lot of times they start caring and come to join the fight.

The people engaged in battle already know how it's going, you don't need to tell me my side owns, or doesn't own, all five points.
PAX REPUBLICA
SWTOR Thread Guild Website
Softcore PVP with Hardcore Determination
Prophecy of the Five | Poet Warlord | International Guild