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KOTET opinion and Vette or Torian choices (SPOILERS)


Swingkittie

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First I want to mention that I do not look up on You Tube or the forums, (or other places), to find out what is going to happen ahead of time. I play my characters as just like I am experiencing everything new. That being said, I ran my first character through KOTET - my Sith Inquisitor. I have 7 characters of different classes sitting on Odesson waiting. If you haven't played dark side KOTET then you probably should stop reading now. But I will put spoiler tags anyway.

 

 

First, I will digress to Senya and Arcann, of which I didn't know you could recruit him and get Senya back at the time so yeah I killed Senya. Perhaps that is just as well, because my SI is 100% dark and wanted nothing but death for Arcann. I have to say the speech she gives when killing him was awesome! The end fight in Chapter 9 was also great. I was surprised but excited to fight both siblings and have that end scene with Senya's ghost. Then I get back to Odesson and most of the people running around all have an Arcann companion (LOL). So much for the dark side right?

 

 

Now on the Chapter 8 and this is where I am pretty upset. I liked the fact the game offered choices. If I chose to kill Aric Jorgan or Kailyo then I could. Or I could just warn them or exile them forever. I could choose to kill Lt. Rusk or Skadge, imprison the Khem Val replacement, or kill Broonmark. The thing is I didn't have to kill any of them as it was always my choice. Then chapter 8 comes and I am given another choice. Why? Why would you do this to some of the best companions in this game? Going back to me not reading up ahead of time, I ran through this choosing to

save Torian. I sat in shock staring at my monitor when Vaylin killed Vette.

I had to walk away. I was so mad. And afterward, the letter Gault sent me brought tears. I know - pretty geeky right? but when you have got to know these companions over the last few years, the last thing I wanted to see was them dying, especially main love interest companions with good stories, backgrounds, etc.

 

I am also upset that it appears no other companions are coming back. I seriously doubt Rachel Leigh Cook is such a busy actress to not pop in and record a few lines for Jaesa. Or Tara Strong who is already an accomplished voice actress to come in and do Risha. Or Steve Blum who already did the Admiral so why not also have him record lines for Andronikas. And so on with all the others. Instead I get some weak response on where my force user companions are but the rest are just gone. Apparently, Quinn isn't searching hard enough even though his letter stated he was trying to find my sith warrior, along with many other letters from LI's while my characters were in carbonite.

 

If BW can just bring back my old companions through the story and not clicking on a holoterminal, then maybe I can somehow get over losing a major companion.

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The other companion thing has been addressed so many times now. They ARE bringing them back it's just player feedback demanded a tighter story in kotet and unfortunately this meant no returning companions. Yep people complained. BW listened. Charles says he very much wants to bring them back ASAP. my guess is either between next xpac or in the next one. Don't lose hope on that.
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I am also upset that it appears no other companions are coming back. I seriously doubt Rachel Leigh Cook is such a busy actress to not pop in and record a few lines for Jaesa. Or Tara Strong who is already an accomplished voice actress to come in and do Risha. Or Steve Blum who already did the Admiral so why not also have him record lines for Andronikas. And so on with all the others. Instead I get some weak response on where my force user companions are but the rest are just gone. Apparently, Quinn isn't searching hard enough even though his letter stated he was trying to find my sith warrior, along with many other letters from LI's while my characters were in carbonite.

 

If BW can just bring back my old companions through the story and not clicking on a holoterminal, then maybe I can somehow get over losing a major companion.

 

Considering the in game revision to companion roles and the storyline point of our characters were in carbonite for five years, I'm completely fine with the concept of our losing companions permanently. I've kvetched often enough on assorted forms about what I feel is too many companions overall. While I do agree with you about why not have companions voiced by VAs who are also voicing other characters, I think it's also depending on what was recorded when in relation to the VA strike. I think it would've really helped somewhat if we got more letters from the missing companions as some acknowledgement or letting us know what was going on with them over time.

 

The other companion thing has been addressed so many times now. They ARE bringing them back it's just player feedback demanded a tighter story in kotet and unfortunately this meant no returning companions. Yep people complained. BW listened. Charles says he very much wants to bring them back ASAP. my guess is either between next xpac or in the next one. Don't lose hope on that.

 

From reading around, I have the feeling that they originally planned on dragging out the return of companions and got blindsided by the VA strike. Equally I could also buy the reason of typical Bioware overreacting to criticism and instead of listening to what worked and what didn't with KotFE, they took it to the extreme and just worried about the core storyline instead of tweaking what they were doing. As it is, while they did tie up a lot of points with KotFT, it still felt like there were points where they could've brought back companions. Especially during the Valkoryon fight as I feel it would've flowed much better with our characters going in with Lord Scourge, and Kira.

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From reading around, I have the feeling that they originally planned on dragging out the return of companions and got blindsided by the VA strike. Equally I could also buy the reason of typical Bioware overreacting to criticism and instead of listening to what worked and what didn't with KotFE, they took it to the extreme and just worried about the core storyline instead of tweaking what they were doing. As it is, while they did tie up a lot of points with KotFT, it still felt like there were points where they could've brought back companions. Especially during the Valkoryon fight as I feel it would've flowed much better with our characters going in with Lord Scourge, and Kira.

 

The thing is, they have long term contracts with all of their VAs and TOR was not on the list of affected games. I don't know if that's because it launched well before 2015 or because of the contracts, but either way it's more likely that balancing the desire to bring companions back in a meaningful way through the story with making KotET more cohesive as a story than KotFE is the actual issue.

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I may be one of the few Warriors who chose to sacrifice Vette. I didn't need to read gen chat or watch YT videos to know that I was choosing which character would die. I played Mass Effect I. This was Virmire all over again.

 

Wasn't an easy decision, but I still believe saving Torian was the right choice. While I do like Vette more as a character, and while my Warrior may have been closer to her, a leader has to maintain objectivity. There is little room for sentiment in war. At the end of the day, Vette's individual expertise and charm is simply outweighed by the need for influential loyalists in the Mandalorians who are ready to die for your cause. Vette is easily replaced, and that's just the cruel reality. On some level, it's precisely because I knew that she would not take her death with dignity that I chose to sacrifice her. She's simply not the type of person (my) Alliance needs.

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I sat in shock staring at my monitor when Vaylin killed Vette.

I had to walk away. I was so mad. And afterward, the letter Gault sent me brought tears. I know - pretty geeky right? but when you have got to know these companions over the last few years, the last thing I wanted to see was the, especially main love interest companions with good stories, backgrounds, etc.

 

So your complaint is that the story made you upset, not that it was a bad story. Am I right?

 

Vette is dead. There is no believable way to bring her back.

 

There's a difference between good storytelling and a story that makes you feel good.

Edited by Stultophobe
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I may be one of the few Warriors who chose to sacrifice Vette. I didn't need to read gen chat or watch YT videos to know that I was choosing which character would die. I played Mass Effect I. This was Virmire all over again.

 

Wasn't an easy decision, but I still believe saving Torian was the right choice. While I do like Vette more as a character, and while my Warrior may have been closer to her, a leader has to maintain objectivity. There is little room for sentiment in war. At the end of the day, Vette's individual expertise and charm is simply outweighed by the need for influential loyalists in the Mandalorians who are ready to die for your cause. Vette is easily replaced, and that's just the cruel reality. On some level, it's precisely because I knew that she would not take her death with dignity that I chose to sacrifice her. She's simply not the type of person (my) Alliance needs.

 

It does seem to be a very exclusive club we're in as SW who sacrificed Vette...

 

My reasons were very much the same as yours, though I never much cared for her.

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Don't happen to have copy of that letter do you? Ive been curious about it.

 

Here you go.

 

 

I don't normally get sentimental, but I need to say this. Figured if anyone could understand, it'd be you.

 

Things happen in battle. Choices get made. People die. I get that. I'm not blaming anyone. Things like this happen. I just never thought it would happen to Vette.

 

Not sure how much she told you about our time together, but she was the best business partner I ever had. Quick on her feet. Never panicked. No matter how bad things got, she knew she'd find a way out. And she always did.

 

There was something about her--an energy, an enthusiasm--that infected everyone she met. I've been running cons so long the game had gotten faded and dull. But when she and I joined forces, it was like everything was bright and shiny again.

 

And now she's gone. I know she gave her life for a cause she believed in. I believe in the Alliance, too. I guess that makes it better in some way. But it sure feels like the galaxy has gotten a little dimmer now that she's gone.

 

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I may be one of the few Warriors who chose to sacrifice Vette. I didn't need to read gen chat or watch YT videos to know that I was choosing which character would die. I played Mass Effect I. This was Virmire all over again.

 

Wasn't an easy decision, but I still believe saving Torian was the right choice. While I do like Vette more as a character, and while my Warrior may have been closer to her, a leader has to maintain objectivity. There is little room for sentiment in war. At the end of the day, Vette's individual expertise and charm is simply outweighed by the need for influential loyalists in the Mandalorians who are ready to die for your cause. Vette is easily replaced, and that's just the cruel reality. On some level, it's precisely because I knew that she would not take her death with dignity that I chose to sacrifice her. She's simply not the type of person (my) Alliance needs.

 

We have Shae Vizla. I'm not sure Torian took his death as well as I would have expected. I thought he should have been more of a "Going out in a blaze of glory is just my style Commander." more than "Not how I expected to die."

 

He was in the middle of a huge battle. How is that not the Mando way to go out? :p

 

I've only seen Vette get taken out by her husband in a YT vid and it came out as a total **** move :p I can't imagine it coming off better with a female Warrior either. I am curious how it looks when done by a non warrior.

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I may be one of the few Warriors who chose to sacrifice Vette. I didn't need to read gen chat or watch YT videos to know that I was choosing which character would die. I played Mass Effect I. This was Virmire all over again.

 

Wasn't an easy decision, but I still believe saving Torian was the right choice. While I do like Vette more as a character, and while my Warrior may have been closer to her, a leader has to maintain objectivity. There is little room for sentiment in war. At the end of the day, Vette's individual expertise and charm is simply outweighed by the need for influential loyalists in the Mandalorians who are ready to die for your cause. Vette is easily replaced, and that's just the cruel reality. On some level, it's precisely because I knew that she would not take her death with dignity that I chose to sacrifice her. She's simply not the type of person (my) Alliance needs.

 

Is she truly more expendable than Torian, though?

 

Vette has a good amount of tech knowledge and other clever tactics due to her time as a pirate. Whereas Torian could easily be seen as another soldier, of which you may already have plenty. In particular, if you recruited Shae Vizla, and took the light-sided route in the Mando chapter, you probably have plenty more Mandolorians willing to follow you into battle.

 

This isn't to say you're wrong to choose Torian over Vette. There are perfectly valid reasons for either.

 

I'm just pointing out that there is much more to this war than just fighting, and specialists like Vette definitely also have their place alongside fighters like Torian.

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Is she truly more expendable than Torian, though?

 

Vette has a good amount of tech knowledge and other clever tactics due to her time as a pirate. Whereas Torian could easily be seen as another soldier, of which you may already have plenty. In particular, if you recruited Shae Vizla, and took the light-sided route in the Mando chapter, you probably have plenty more Mandolorians willing to follow you into battle.

 

This isn't to say you're wrong to choose Torian over Vette. There are perfectly valid reasons for either.

 

I'm just pointing out that there is much more to this war than just fighting, and specialists like Vette definitely also have their place alongside fighters like Torian.

 

Not to mention an assassin who worked with a Sith Warrior for years.

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My Agent is self centred egotistical and cares nothing for anyone or anything,,,, she killed anyone that remotely annoyed her if the option was there..... she avoided all romance possibilities .... However when it came to Vette or Torian there was no hesitation.... much to her annoyance she cared about Vette... Vette had a way in to her heart no other character remotely came close too. It was obvious to me Bioware were repeating ME1 and the Ashley and Kaiden choice on Virmire. However I had to decide what Vickie would do..... and no hesitation... Vette was a little ray of light in a the dark life of a former imperial agent. Only my Bounty Hunter chose Torian..... well he is her husband!
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I played it based on the decision which made most sense for my character- which was to say 'rescue the civilian who's only an amateur at front-line combat *first*', *then* the professional killer, for whom it's a) part of the deal that a Mandalorian signs up to as a possible outcome, and b) he's got better training and resources at his disposal to last longer, and, even though all my Inquisitor's instincts and force sensitivity were telling her that the second choice was going to die, run like hell and hope to any listening deity that she was wrong.

 

No, it's not the "glorious death" that Mandalorians and the rest are brainwashed to think is a good thing, but, even so, it's a gamble Torian willingly took on with that lifestyle, whereas Vette's- essentially- a civilian.

 

I do like that the dilemma happened, and had the upshot it did. Much as I'll miss Torian, it was a wonderful character note- it's a shame really there wasn't time for some form of memorial service between eight and nine.

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So far my Jedi Knight chose to save Torian. Much as he liked Vette, Torian was a valuable asset in helping to lead the mandalorian forces he simply couldn't throw away. Vette, well her job can be done by both Kalyio and Theran.

 

My SI chose to save Vette as she felt that Vette was more fun and loyal and had earned her spurs as a valued agent after that heist they pulled.

 

My BH, that's going to be tough call, but my mando is Mandalorian and he knows the score as much as Torian, but Vette doesn't. And my final run through will likely be my smuggler, again probably save vette.

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Out of interest has anyone played as a female bounty hunter, been in a relationship with Torian but the chosen to go after Vette first?

 

I'm wondering if that promotes any interesting dialogue and though there's not much story left by the time that happens whether any further romance options are available such as Lana or Theron.

 

My BH has been pure goody light side all the way and I'm considering whether a angst driven rampage over the last chapter after the death of her husband will be at all interesting or whether I'll completely lose in terms of romance options as a result.

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Is she truly more expendable than Torian, though?

 

Vette has a good amount of tech knowledge and other clever tactics due to her time as a pirate. Whereas Torian could easily be seen as another soldier, of which you may already have plenty. In particular, if you recruited Shae Vizla, and took the light-sided route in the Mando chapter, you probably have plenty more Mandolorians willing to follow you into battle.

 

This isn't to say you're wrong to choose Torian over Vette. There are perfectly valid reasons for either.

 

I'm just pointing out that there is much more to this war than just fighting, and specialists like Vette definitely also have their place alongside fighters like Torian.

 

You're absolutely right that specialists have their place in war, but imo it's not the front lines.Theron is also a specialist but rather than charge into the fray he did what he's best equipped to do: infiltration and sabotage. Vette had no business being where she was and as my Wrath had not ordered her to the front, he did not believe he was responsible for saving her from her own stupidity. Especially after she said she "almost fell for" Saresh's speech.

 

He also happens to be Lawful Evil like his player, however, so I neither expect that viewpoint to be popular nor would I ever attempt to argue that it is the right one. It was simply the right one for my Wrath. ^_^

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So your complaint is that the story made you upset, not that it was a bad story. Am I right?

 

Vette is dead. There is no believable way to bring her back.

 

There's a difference between good storytelling and a story that makes you feel good.

 

Let's just say I was surprised when that choice popped up before me. I knew whoever I chose first would be saved. However, I had a glimmer of hope when Vaylin tossed Vette toward my character that she would be saved, then she snapped her neck....

 

I would have liked to see instead a choice come up before Vaylin does that to be - light side: save Vette/Torian, Darkside: Don't save them. Now I understand people would say that everyone would choose light side, but perhaps not. I chose to kill Senya and Arcann when clearly my option could have been to go light side and work with them. I chose to kill Koth instead on my SW but my SI just threatened him. So really in a game of choices matter, should ultimately be up to us not the devs to decide who dies and who doesn't. That's just my opinion on that.

 

I thought it was a good story even if it was predictable. We get these foreshadowing of events through out KOFTE. Lana is warning us to not trust Valkorian. She has concerns about his control over my character. All her suspicions and reasons were valid.

 

I do wish we could have turned Vaylin but I guess not everyone can be redeemed right?

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You're absolutely right that specialists have their place in war, but imo it's not the front lines.Theron is also a specialist but rather than charge into the fray he did what he's best equipped to do: infiltration and sabotage. Vette had no business being where she was and as my Wrath had not ordered her to the front, he did not believe he was responsible for saving her from her own stupidity. Especially after she said she "almost fell for" Saresh's speech.

 

He also happens to be Lawful Evil like his player, however, so I neither expect that viewpoint to be popular nor would I ever attempt to argue that it is the right one. It was simply the right one for my Wrath. ^_^

 

So you'd rather deal with those guns she took out? C'mon, she's more talented and is doing more than you're giving her credit for. And Oddessen was attacked before you arrived. She's really supposed to just wait around and do nothing before you specifically TELL her to do something?

 

I'm sorry, but nothing in your argument is fair. Pragmatically or sentimentally.

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My main gripe about the situation is that they are both arguably the youngest key players in the Alliance. I think they're both only 23 or so, while the other returning companions are more hardened and experienced. Which kid who has so much life yet to live do you want to doom? Makes it more sad and wasteful to me.
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My main gripe about the situation is that they are both arguably the youngest key players in the Alliance. I think they're both only 23 or so, while the other returning companions are more hardened and experienced. Which kid who has so much life yet to live do you want to doom? Makes it more sad and wasteful to me.

 

They were at minimum 18 (Torian) and years had gone by before being frozen in carbonite for 5 years.

 

So Torian is likely a good 28 years old.

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The game wants me to care about Vette so bad it's sometimes pathetic. Meet up with Theron on Iokath: "Hey Commander, we're in arse knows where with no idea how we got here, surrounded by murderous droids and Vaylin's troops, not to mention Vaylin herself is somewhere here...." -- "That's not important Theron, better tell me IS VETTE ALRIGHT?!!!!!" And then later you get another chance to pee your pants in joy that Vette is alright, hallelujah! Really? You bypass your war-forged friends and love interests, but Vette is so special that my characters waste a precious dialogue option (and that would be 33% of choices), on "OMG is Vette okay???" Tell you what, game -- I don't give a rat's arse about her. And after saving her on one character just for variety, I'm gonna choose Torian over this annoying writer's pet on all and every other character I'll ever run KOTET with.
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The game wants me to care about Vette so bad it's sometimes pathetic. Meet up with Theron on Iokath: "Hey Commander, we're in arse knows where with no idea how we got here, surrounded by murderous droids and Vaylin's troops, not to mention Vaylin herself is somewhere here...." -- "That's not important Theron, better tell me IS VETTE ALRIGHT?!!!!!" And then later you get another chance to pee your pants in joy that Vette is alright, hallelujah! Really? You bypass your war-forged friends and love interests, but Vette is so special that my characters waste a precious dialogue option (and that would be 33% of choices), on "OMG is Vette okay???" Tell you what, game -- I don't give a rat's arse about her. And after saving her on one character just for variety, I'm gonna choose Torian over this annoying writer's pet on all and every other character I'll ever run KOTET with.

 

I find this a bit funny. Everyone seems to think "Character got more writing than I wanted, must be a writer's pet."

 

Vette likely got more material, because in Vanilla she got more material. Gualt gets more screen time in vanilla than Torian.

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So you'd rather deal with those guns she took out? C'mon, she's more talented and is doing more than you're giving her credit for. And Oddessen was attacked before you arrived. She's really supposed to just wait around and do nothing before you specifically TELL her to do something?

 

I'm sorry, but nothing in your argument is fair. Pragmatically or sentimentally.

 

Even Theron knew what he was good at. Even if you had romanced him, he didn't go with you on ground. He sent Lana as he knew she was better for that job than he was.

 

Sure she did something good but when she found out about those guns, she could have said something to the right individuals to take them out. Vette is good at her job which is tech but she really didn't belong on the battlefield. There were more things she could have done than get on the battlefield where she was untrained for. There are places for each person in a war situation and you do your part. If it is tech than do the tech, if it is front line then front line, if it is healing then healing. Each person should do what they are good at and not do something they are not trained for.

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