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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
11.09.2018 , 10:52 AM | #9551
I think these bad habits often stem from VET mode experience without tank or healer or maybe even solo mode.
Or people seeing others doing it, without understanding why they do LOS at some specifically usefull spots and just remember, hey that run went easy peasy, let's copy what was done there.

What I beginn to wonder though is, why do people have no idea of FP boss mechanics but at the same time know each and every damn short cut, especially those that circumvent trash groups with pathetically easy enemies?
When I'm tanking, I usually just pull everything on the direct way because most of the time, going around is not at all faster than just killing them and I prefer to do the bonus bosses too anyway.
I really love those instances where people glitch up walls to bypass one or two mostly weak adds... then someone doesn't get it working, has to be pulled or to stuck, you have to go back, or someone puts his toe too far out and still pulls the group... just be the hero that was sent for and kill those foes head on!

Running as healer more often lately, was a weird experience there.
It really seems to becoming a trend, players having no clue about any FP mechanics, often enough neither their own class, but you can be damn sure they know exactly how to avoid and jump around all those pathetic trash groups that would fall in a few seconds of concentrated effort.
In Rishi, Rakata, Battle of Ilum, Foundry or Boarding Party, or where ever else, they know nothing about the bosses but each and every necessary and mostly unnecessary short-cut.

I'm just wondering myself, if there is no problem learning and remembering those special ways, why is there one with doing the same with simple boss mechanics?

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
11.09.2018 , 11:55 AM | #9552
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
I'm just wondering myself, if there is no problem learning and remembering those special ways, why is there one with doing the same with simple boss mechanics?
I think most of the problem is the top-geared, veteran players who do speed runs of the vet flashpoints. They have enough gear that they can ignore the mechanics and just burn the boss. No CC or dcd's needed when you can just aoe the mobs down in no time flat and shrug off the incoming damage.

They typically burn the elites/bosses first and then clear the trash.

New players tag along with these guys, and think that's the right way to play the flashpoints. They end up being level 70 with no concept of dcds, mechanics, or how to play their class. ... Then they que up for master mode and it's fun, fun, wipe-fest time.

New level 70's should try hitting vet modes solo with a comp to get an idea of what dcds and cc's they have access to. Being a good dps is about more than just your damage output.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy life.

rantboi's Avatar


rantboi
11.09.2018 , 04:07 PM | #9553
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
I think most of the problem is the top-geared, veteran players who do speed runs of the vet flashpoints. They have enough gear that they can ignore the mechanics and just burn the boss. No CC or dcd's needed when you can just aoe the mobs down in no time flat and shrug off the incoming damage.

They typically burn the elites/bosses first and then clear the trash.

New players tag along with these guys, and think that's the right way to play the flashpoints. They end up being level 70 with no concept of dcds, mechanics, or how to play their class. ... Then they que up for master mode and it's fun, fun, wipe-fest time.

New level 70's should try hitting vet modes solo with a comp to get an idea of what dcds and cc's they have access to. Being a good dps is about more than just your damage output.
another reason why level 70s who want to do tactical fp should have separate queue

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
11.09.2018 , 06:21 PM | #9554
Quote: Originally Posted by rantboi View Post
another reason why level 70s who want to do tactical fp should have separate queue
Tactital is a gimped system. So as long as it exists, the average level of the player base will stay low.
Darth Malgus
Odhul'sen - La Croisée
Typhojem - La Croisée Impériale

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
11.10.2018 , 06:38 AM | #9555
Quote: Originally Posted by bluehufsa View Post
I returned to this game yesterday after a few months of absence and found myself in the exact situation you described.
Not going to give their names, gonna cut them some slack because they are beginners and lack experience - i know they were beginners because they had no buffs except the one from their classes & no achievements whatsoever.
Still it would be nice if people would stop los-ing all HS and attacking cc-ed mobs & turrets.
Looks like PvP behaviour to me - in PvP, there is different behaviour necessary than in PvE.

Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
I think most of the problem is the top-geared, veteran players who do speed runs of the vet flashpoints. They have enough gear that they can ignore the mechanics and just burn the boss. No CC or dcd's needed when you can just aoe the mobs down in no time flat and shrug off the incoming damage.
I agree to that - I do know it from my own guild.

One day, we did Hammerstation with LOwbies. And with "lowbies" I mean around level 20-30 !

I never knew that the final boss had such a strong killing ability !
Because that is never shown / played out with veteran gear and levels. You simply ignore that.
Us lowbies were almost insta-killed by that.

This is a difference most vet players don't even realize : Mechanics are so much more dangerous for lowbies in groups.
But then, lowbies are frowned upon, which maked the circle of vet players ebven more a closed circle, as hey don't allow lowbies into their groups anymore, and lowbies have no chance at leaning. Except levelling up as fast as possible - without properly learning the mechanics. And then vets wonder why there is no experience in them.

Quote: Originally Posted by rantboi View Post
another reason why level 70s who want to do tactical fp should have separate queue
I agree.
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

Padabiene's Avatar


Padabiene
11.10.2018 , 08:43 AM | #9556
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
I never knew that the final boss had such a strong killing ability !
Because that is never shown / played out with veteran gear and levels. You simply ignore that.
Us lowbies were almost insta-killed by that.
I assume you mean the channeled cleave? You can and should move out of it, no matter the lvl. Just fyi.^^
What do we do, panic, freak? I usually panic but I'm happy to freak.

happysister's Avatar


happysister
11.10.2018 , 12:17 PM | #9557
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
Tactital is a gimped system. So as long as it exists, the average level of the player base will stay low.
This is correct. VM FPs were made to make roles not matter for the sake of making queues pop faster. People who run VMs all the time don't really learn the proper way to function in a group, nor do they learn proper boss mechanics for their role, since healers and tanks are unneeded. It's just a zerg-fest.
<Fortitude>
Lorhin - Gunslinger | Sashel - Scoundrel
Shylar - Guardian | Oorio - Sage
RIP my old servers [The Corsair, Canderous Ordo, Jedi Covenant] .

Kagetheorc's Avatar


Kagetheorc
11.10.2018 , 08:32 PM | #9558
Quote: Originally Posted by happysister View Post
This is correct. VM FPs were made to make roles not matter for the sake of making queues pop faster. People who run VMs all the time don't really learn the proper way to function in a group, nor do they learn proper boss mechanics for their role, since healers and tanks are unneeded. It's just a zerg-fest.
I've only been playing since March. That said, I'm bad at the game. Pretty bad. However, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this statement is false. I only do Flashpoints with maybe one or two operations every now and again. Because VM is role-agnostic, I get into those faster, and therefore, more often. I would argue that the role-agnostic nature of the encounters teaches you more about boss mechanics. The debuff on Athiss's last boss -will- kill you if not removed; and has an iffy survival rate depending on how long between getting the debuff and hitting a kolto station. For the sake of argument, let's not get into Umbara/Traitor/Nathema; as those are arguably outliers (despite how much I would -love- to talk about them). What I noticed is that, as I'm lower level and geared, I don't draw a lot of threat. But, once capped, and my understanding of my rotation and stuff grows, I pull more and more threat (as is a natural curve). Because I'm pulling more threat, and there's no tank, I'm getting hit. Without a healer, I'm not being topped off. As such, if I don't learn how to use my defensives and properly mitigate (or even properly CC), I am -going- to die.

My success rate in Master Mode Flashpoints is a lot higher. Why, I cannot say. But, I would argue it doesn't have much to do with mechanics. Master Mode is mechanically harder, yet I have an easier time in them than I do in Veteran Mode instances. I would argue Veteran Mode also teaches people how to function in a group....to a selfish extent. Not in the sense of communication/coordination/composition. Rather, they know someone with stealth can CC mobs so they can skip trash and make things go faster. They know who has combat resurrections so they shouldn't be dead for longer than a minute in the event they do die. The list goes on and on. But, yeah. On mass, I don't agree that role-agnostic = less emphasis on what is going on.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
11.11.2018 , 04:17 AM | #9559
Quote: Originally Posted by Padabiene View Post
I assume you mean the channeled cleave? You can and should move out of it, no matter the lvl. Just fyi.^^
I'm not that dumb. But - as Vet aka Level 70, you can just stay in it and it won't matter much, because of skills & gear.

When was the last time you did that with level 20 ? I mean, with REAL level 20 ?
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

Padabiene's Avatar


Padabiene
11.11.2018 , 06:02 AM | #9560
Didn't say you were. It still hurts at lvl 70 if you don't move or pop a DCD though. And what's a 'REAL lvl 20' for you? I run Vets on low lvl all the time, but maybe I'm not real enough.
Also, please note I didn't claim that it's not more challenging on lower levels. It certainly is. But people also need to pay attention and not blame it all on other players rushing through. If someone needs or wants an explanation I happily oblige. I just need to know and often enough there's silence in chat.^^
What do we do, panic, freak? I usually panic but I'm happy to freak.