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Fixing Grade 11 (6.0) crafting


Estelindis

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[...] Instant gratification

you keep using those words... I do not believe they mean what you think they mean.

 

Not a single suggestion in this thread (or any other 6.0 crafting thread) would make crafting easier than it was, in fact the majority of them still leave crafting 6.0 considerably more difficult than it has been.

 

No one here expects G11 / 6.0 crafting to be easier than the previous tier. Your claims to the contrary tell me you eithe A) don't actually do any seriouss crafting, or B) are a whale that could afford to throw 10s of billions of credits at it.

 

Either way your behavior is that of a troll. Think I'm wrong in that assessment? Fine, prove it. You've said your piece, now you can move on, since no further reply is necessary... right?

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you keep using those words... I do not believe they mean what you think they mean.

 

Not a single suggestion in this thread (or any other 6.0 crafting thread) would make crafting easier than it was, in fact the majority of them still leave crafting 6.0 considerably more difficult than it has been.

 

No one here expects G11 / 6.0 crafting to be easier than the previous tier. Your claims to the contrary tell me you eithe A) don't actually do any seriouss crafting, or B) are a whale that could afford to throw 10s of billions of credits at it.

 

Either way your behavior is that of a troll. Think I'm wrong in that assessment? Fine, prove it. You've said your piece, now you can move on, since no further reply is necessary... right?

 

You can make all the assumptions you would like to about me. I don’t have to prove a point to anyone on the forums. I can post anything I would like as long as it doesn’t violate tos. I disagree with the thread and I can continue to make post stating I don’t want crafting made easier every time I see the pop up.

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So basically you want to craft the best gear, with little effort ? That’s what I read in all this. Pity times massive increase to chances for crits. No effort even though everything was being posted to gtn first week. God forbid we actually have to work at getting stuff. People in MMO’s now have such a poor attitude. They don’t understand what a grind is. They have no clue how it used to be in games where you literally would have to grind items for months at a time to get the best gears.

 

You are no crafter and never have been just by the way you wrote your post. If you are then I question your logic.

 

For golds I expect the insane amount of matts not to change to be on par with making 258 gear. But gear I will never make more than I need to learn the next color up doesn't need such bloat. Take a good look at Cybertech and tell me you want to farm ten thousand mats just to make even half of them gold? Every single mod type and every single Enhancement type from green to gold. Go broke or see you next year.

 

We never asked for crafting to change and we never expected to get BiS gear out of it, but since they determined that certain sets would come from crafting then they bloated the system. Can't have gear being crafted that you have to pay tech frag and 1 mil credits for being easy. Those that have golds were supplied by an entire guild, filthy rich, or have never done anything other than craft.

 

I agree with everything that is requested to bring it back in line with how the lower tiers work. Somethings could be adjusted if brought back to the 2/2/2 but if it does not everything else needs to apply.

 

As far as we know the gear that we will be allowed to make will be bound to legacy making it impossible to sell. Everything that drops should be Bound to Legacy on Equip (BLE)

 

I can see the gear section of the gtn drying up for the lack of skins or lower gear.

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As regards off-topicness, of course I can only ask people to stay on-topic, but I do think it is beneficial for us to do so. In my previous-page reply to a user that a few people are replying to on this page, I tried to comment mainly in an on-topic way, and I think that if the person doesn't reply to that, then probably trying to engage them is not the best use of our space in this thread. I don't mind if this thread isn't the biggest or the most active; I just want its consistent quality of feedback to be useful to Bioware. :) But that's just my opinion. ;)

 

As far as we know the gear that we will be allowed to make will be bound to legacy making it impossible to sell. Everything that drops should be Bound to Legacy on Equip (BLE)

I'm not fully clear if you are speaking about the current situation or a future situation, but as it stands craftable tacticals and set bonus items are currently BLE and thus can be sold. (Lockboxes containing set bonus items are bound, but the items that the box generates are BLE.)

 

Not that they are necessarily being sold. I crafted a single tactical on the grounds that I can use it if it doesn't sell. After a few attempts, I am no longer listing it, because several other copies are being listed on the GTN and not selling even though the asking price has dropped to 28% of what they originally listed it at. The current lowest asking price is absolutely a large loss compared to what all the needed materials would have sold for, and it's still not selling. At this point, I think the other sellers are just trying to partially recoup their losses. And I absolutely predicted this in another of the crafting threads. The reason for all this is that high crafting costs punish both crafters and would-be buyers. There's simply no comparison between 3k tech fragments + 1m credits and, for example, 100m credits. I am happy to pay the first. I am not happy to pay the second (in spite of being fully aware of the materials cost; it's simply too large an investment of my credits). Yet crafters need to list at a high price to avoid making a loss vs. simply selling their materials. Ultimately, only rich players can afford to pay a price for crafted endgame items that gives crafters a reason to craft instead of selling materials. And seemingly the majority of them are not doing so and simply waiting for the items' price to drop further. (Rich players are generally rich for a reason and don't throw their credits away without cause.)

 

Much of this could be avoided if the materials requirement for basic components was reduced to 2/2/2 and the supply of green materials was drastically increased. As it stands, a good number of players have an appreciation of the market value of exotic materials like matrices and embers. But almost none of them have a sense of just how many normal materials are required due to 8/10/10 component costs and the triple nesting of each purple component needing nine green components (via three blue components; not taking crits into account). And many of them also don't know that green materials are in short supply and thus currently sell for an artificially inflated price. Of course, many of them also don't know just how many isotopes, matrices, and embers are needed by the schematics, but at least this can be easily explained by a crafter who just lists numbers, whereas the situation with basic materials is a lot harder to explain (and many simply don't believe it... it is, after all, kinda astonishing, even to those of us who understand it).

 

Thus, reducing the basic materials cost, and increasing the green materials supply, will improve the situation for both crafters and buyers. Crafters will be able to drop their prices and still make some kind of profit. And the prices of crafted items will become more accessible to those who wish to buy.

Edited by Estelindis
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I am very happy to see the following post from Eric today:

 

Hey all,

 

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isn’t where we want it to be either. There are quite a few changes planned for 6.0.2 in December and we want to give you a preview of those changes today. As 6.0.2 will not have its own PTS, please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.

 

  • The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
    • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).

    [*]Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

    • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    • Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.

    [*]Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

    • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.

    [*]Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

    • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.

    [*]The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:

    • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

This does not give everything that we asked. However, it does give a lot. We'll be in a position to keep suggesting that further changes be made, if (as I expect, but we'll see) the proposed changes are not enough.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I agree with all these suggestions Estelindis. I would add that there needs to be a second mission for the so-called Supplement materials ... the ones that used to only be white but now come in green and blue varieties and are sold by the crew skill vendor and advanced repair droid legacy perk. However, I have low expectations that such a change could be implemented in short order.

 

Why do I think these changes are immediately necessary to resuscitate crafting?

 

The changes as proposed by Estelindis will still result in a system that consumes far more materials than previously, simply by the nature of the nested components and purple/blue grades of things that were previously only green. This achieves the inferred goal of the developers that crafting should be time consuming, expensive, and encumbered. (I mean, that's the only conclusion I've come to regarding the developer's motives for putting this out despite the PTS feedback.) Additionally, since deconstructing items results in the return of materials completely unrelated to the crafting skill (e.g. deconstructing purple biochem end products gives luxury fabrics and sliced tech parts) a crafter will still be in significant green material deficit for the foreseeable future, as crew skill gathering gets very expensive and gathering nodes on Onderon and Mek Sha are either sparse or buried under geometry.

 

So, the developers still get to burden crafters, but the system isn't the travesty that it is now.

 

I agree 100%. Right now crafting is not worth it. I've crafted from day one, not for profit but for my own toons. Now I can't even do that. very disappointed. I thought this supposed to be a play your way game, evidently they don't care about crafters.

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