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Shade of Mortis

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
06.06.2022 , 03:08 AM | #1
It's nice to see that the Dev Team are trying to increase the burst but the rage cost is too high, here are my thoughts

Firstly I think that the 25% Critical Chance per Massacre is far too great for a spec that is already hitting high critical chance, I also think that Carnage does not have the Rage to play with to be able to fund such a tactical even though the tactical will probably still net an increase as it is.

Here's how i think it could work. (Two Ideas) The latter of the two i think would be better as it avoids Spamming a singular ability to suffice for a rotation.

CC = Critical Chance
CM = Critical Multiplier
(First Idea) - Sustain Related however possible to Spam massacre for high yield.

Original Cost : Massacre cost 3 with a refund of 1
First Stack : Massacre cost 4 with a refund of 1 (15% CM Gain. Total 15%)
Second Stack : Massacre cost 5 with a refund of 1 (15% CM Gain. Total 30%)
Third/Final Stack : Massacre cost 0 with a refund of 1 (No CM Gain. Total 30%)

*Using Massacre / Blade Rush adds Hyper stacks to you, increasing your critical Multiplier by 15% per stack and increasing the cost of your next Massacre / Blade Rush by 1 rage / focus until you Reach *Maximum Hyper* reducing the cost of your next Massacre / Blade Rush to 0 Rage/Focus Whilst holding your Critical Multiplier at 30%. When you deal damage with another ability, Hyper and Maximum Hyper are removed * (Sorry about the wording not my thing )

(Second Idea) - Rotational Burst and Punish for Spamming

Original Cost : Massacre cost 3 with a refund of 1
First Stack : Massacre cost 2 with a refund of 1 (5% CC + CM Gain. Total 5%)
Second Stack : Massacre cost 1 with a refund of 1 (5% CC + CM Gain. Total 10%)
Third/Final Stack : Massacre cost 4 with a refund of 1 (25% CC + CM Gain. Total 35%)

Using Massacre / Blade Rush adds Hyper stacks to you, increasing your Critical Multiplier and Critical Chance by 5% per stack and decreasing the cost of your next Massacre / Blade Rush by 1 rage / focus until you reach "Maximum Hyper" increasing your Critical Multiplier and Critical Chance by 25% and the cost of your next Massacre / Blade Rush by 1 rage / focus. When you deal damage with another ability, Hyper and Maximum Hyper are removed*


In my opinion i think the second option is the better one, Would like to hear what people think though, Feel free to hmu on discord. I'll leave it at the bottom.

Also on a side note Gore still losing it's sunder (Armour break) effect when using Driving Gore mod. Not sure if that's intended.

if any of the devs want to get in touch to talk about the class specifically i'd be willing to help although i've quit the game since 7.0 launched however i still theorycraft.

-Will (William#8623)
Played Carnage since 5.0 ( 2x Top 3 Ranked And NiM raider)

ChrisBlackSith's Avatar


ChrisBlackSith
06.13.2022 , 10:16 AM | #2
The devs are like, "So, we hear you Carnage Marauders have massive rage generation issues and generally pathetic DPS? Here's a tactical that further increases rage consumption"

I used to play WoW, so I'm going to use the Blizzard argument. Even though they have a tendency to molest their female co-workers, at least in my experience they fix in-game issues on a weekly basis...
Vengeance / Annihilation
Plasmatech
True power comes from the Force in balance

The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
06.15.2022 , 05:42 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NOFORKNKNIFE View Post
I also think that Carnage does not have the Rage to play with to be able to fund such a tactical even though the tactical will probably still net an increase as it is.
This is my biggest problem with this tactical. I finally got a chance to play around with it and while I don't know if it's a DPS increase, I'll leave that to the more numbers-inclined players, it doesn't feel fun to play with. I'm sure you can make it work, but it feels awful. You have to throw in more Strikes, or just drop abilities out of the rotation since we don't have the Focus/Rage to spare when using this tactical. Setting up a Precision window that takes advantage of this buff sucks.

It reeks of a developer wanting to create a new tactical for our class to "replace" Fanged God Form without understanding the fundamental issues with the class that Fanged God Form was trying to fix. We don't have the resources to spare to make this tactical work in a way that keeps the class feeling "fun", that was the whole point of FGF in the first place.

Honestly, I think Fanged God Form would have been fine if they just changed it so that using any ability at max stacks would remove them, including Blade Rush/Massacre. The whole spam gimmick was stupid to begin with, but that would kill it dead. We needed the boost to our resource management, this new tactical is the complete opposite direction. I'm guessing that's why the crit is so high, to make up for the fact that it pushes one of our biggest weaknesses even further instead of helping it.

Also saw the suggestion made elsewhere to separate the change to Blade Rush/Massacre's cost from the stacks and just make the tactical reduce the cost by 1 at all times (with the stacks just providing a crit buff of whatever %). With that, you'd never get to a point where it refunds resources like the old FGF did, so that also kills the spam gimmick while still doing something to aid in our current resource woes.

Would just like to see this tactical make an effort to improve our playstyle, not make it less fun.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
06.16.2022 , 07:46 AM | #4
To be completely honest i get the feeling that they have nobody testing the class changes. They just bring them out then tweak certain passive % to see if they can try line them up before the next big change

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
06.17.2022 , 03:27 PM | #5
Carnage has two main problems. Poor rage management and poor damage (burst and sustain).
This new tactical tries to increase burst and sustain damage, but at the expense of turning poor rage management into practically non existent rage management.

Rage issues could be fixed by adding an extra passive to Ataru form that causes it to generate rage whenever the extra Ataru strike deals damage.
If that is too much, simply add a short (3?) second rate limit on it (that goes down with alacrity to prevent complications).
The rage generation limit could even be temporarily disabled during berserk windows to allow for one or two more uses of gore.

A change like that + the new (worse) fanged god form shard thing + another couple buffs should get the spec into a solid but not op spot.

Other options could involve:
  • Promoting a playstyle that alternates massacre and other abilities - giving non-massacre abilities bonus crit chance and damage
  • Using massacre to stack a passive that procs when using devastating blast. Each stack (up to say, 4) causes devastating blast to basically turn into force crush where for each stack, there's a dot tick before a final big hit. Each stack increasing the damage via extra ticks of the dot and a buffed final big burst.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
06.24.2022 , 01:41 PM | #6
'member when the Devs balanced to;

Damage Groupings for Damage Dealing Disciplines
Melee Sustained Damage Dealers (up to +5% of target DPS)
Annihilation Marauder / Watchman Sentinel
Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow
Lethality Operative / Ruffian Scoundrel
Pyrotech Powertech / Plasmatech Vanguard
Vengeance Juggernaut / Vigilance Guardian

Melee Quasi-Burst Damage Dealer (up to +2.5% of target DPS)
Fury Marauder / Concentration Sentinel

Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)
Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard
Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel
Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel
Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger
Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando
Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage
Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian

Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS)
Virulence Sniper / Dirty Fighting Gunslinger

Ranged Burst Damage Dealers (down to -5% of target DPS)
Arsenal Mercenary / Gunnery Command
Lightning Sorcerer / Telekinetics Sage
Marksmanship Sniper / Sharpshooter Gunslinger

Claiming that the burst spec has a burst tactical in Shade Of Mortis is a bit of a meme. What happened to the sweet target dps. Now we have a burst spec with a dot tactical cause of lack of creativity. You'll burst it'll just cost you reaching your next Ferocity window

Swear the tacticals are ruining all class identity which we wanted see more of after the pruning.

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
06.25.2022 , 08:16 AM | #7
I have a spreadsheet with a few ideas for tacticals actually if you wanna look.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1572816482

The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
06.29.2022 , 01:35 PM | #8
Shard of Mortis got an update in the PTS patch today it seems. It now generates 1 focus/rage for each Hyper stack removed when you use a damaging ability other than Blade Rush/Massacre. Played around with it a bit on the PTS and it feels a lot better to use now than it did before at the very least.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Night-runner's Avatar


Night-runner
06.30.2022 , 11:00 AM | #9
I don't suppose there's a way to edit your thread title so it gets the name of the Tactical correct?
The light can move in the shadow.

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
07.03.2022 , 02:57 AM | #10
I'm not too sure, Last time i wrote a post a post before the lot i did for this PTS is when they banned me for no reason :'D. So who knows. Just my bad i guess, I think people still understand what i wrote even though i wrote it all on my phone just before work :P