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Question about dark/light on new expansion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Question about dark/light on new expansion

Raphael_diSanto's Avatar


Raphael_diSanto
08.03.2021 , 07:10 AM | #11
I think we need to start differentiating classes from story.

You don't have a "core" class. You have a combat style and a story.

This game, in essence, is basically dumping classes in the way that we have traditionally thought about them.

Now, you will choose a story. We can give these stories names to distinguish them, based on what happens in the story, or even maybe on the unique titles given by that story.
  • Hero of Tython
  • Havok Squad
  • The Barsen'thor
  • Privateer
  • Cipher
  • The Wrath
  • The Hunter
  • Forcewalker

This is fixed and cannot be changed, once selected.

And then you have 16 combat styles, 8 of which you can switch between on any given character.

Force-based:
  • Guardian
  • Sentinel
  • Shadow
  • Sage
  • Juggernaut
  • Marauder
  • Assassin
  • Sorcerer

Tech-based:
  • Scoundrel
  • Gunslinger
  • Vanguard
  • Commando
  • Operative
  • Sniper
  • Powertech
  • Mercenary

This is not fixed and can be changed at any time during play (dark/light side restrictions for force-classes notwithstanding)

Your level, gear, story progression, etc will remain independent of those two things.

So your character could be, for example:

Level: 60
Story: Hero of Tython
Story stage: End of chapter 2.
Combat Style: Guardian

At this point, you could change your combat style to Sage. Your character would remain at level 60. You would still be playing the Hero of Tython story. And you would still be at the end of Chapter 2, about to head to Belsavis. You could do one mission on Belsavis and then decide you needed stealth for the next mission and switch to Shadow. If you wished to switch to Assassin, or any of the other DS-aligned force combat styles, you'll have to grind out the requisite DS Points (We don't know how this is going to work yet)

Or, you could be playing through the Hunter story, using the Commando combat style, so you can mow down Tarro Blood with an assault cannon. But for a given mission, you might decide that being a one-shot, one-kill sniper is more appropriate, so you can instantly switch to the sniper combat style, equip a sniper rifle, and away you go!

You don't "switch classes". There is no such thing as a class anymore. (Or there won't be, when the expansion drops). The developers could have decided that you gained individual levels in a combat style, but they chose not to.

Bear in mind, all of this post is my interpretation of the information that's been released so far. I could be completely incorrect. Only time will tell.

Wopr's Avatar


Wopr
08.03.2021 , 01:13 PM | #12
Thanks for breaking this down in a way I can understand it!!!! Awesome job! It make sense to me now. Thanks
Quote: Originally Posted by Raphael_diSanto View Post
I think we need to start differentiating classes from story.

You don't have a "core" class. You have a combat style and a story.

This game, in essence, is basically dumping classes in the way that we have traditionally thought about them.

Now, you will choose a story. We can give these stories names to distinguish them, based on what happens in the story, or even maybe on the unique titles given by that story.
  • Hero of Tython
  • Havok Squad
  • The Barsen'thor
  • Privateer
  • Cipher
  • The Wrath
  • The Hunter
  • Forcewalker

This is fixed and cannot be changed, once selected.

And then you have 16 combat styles, 8 of which you can switch between on any given character.

Force-based:
  • Guardian
  • Sentinel
  • Shadow
  • Sage
  • Juggernaut
  • Marauder
  • Assassin
  • Sorcerer

Tech-based:
  • Scoundrel
  • Gunslinger
  • Vanguard
  • Commando
  • Operative
  • Sniper
  • Powertech
  • Mercenary

This is not fixed and can be changed at any time during play (dark/light side restrictions for force-classes notwithstanding)

Your level, gear, story progression, etc will remain independent of those two things.

So your character could be, for example:

Level: 60
Story: Hero of Tython
Story stage: End of chapter 2.
Combat Style: Guardian

At this point, you could change your combat style to Sage. Your character would remain at level 60. You would still be playing the Hero of Tython story. And you would still be at the end of Chapter 2, about to head to Belsavis. You could do one mission on Belsavis and then decide you needed stealth for the next mission and switch to Shadow. If you wished to switch to Assassin, or any of the other DS-aligned force combat styles, you'll have to grind out the requisite DS Points (We don't know how this is going to work yet)

Or, you could be playing through the Hunter story, using the Commando combat style, so you can mow down Tarro Blood with an assault cannon. But for a given mission, you might decide that being a one-shot, one-kill sniper is more appropriate, so you can instantly switch to the sniper combat style, equip a sniper rifle, and away you go!

You don't "switch classes". There is no such thing as a class anymore. (Or there won't be, when the expansion drops). The developers could have decided that you gained individual levels in a combat style, but they chose not to.

Bear in mind, all of this post is my interpretation of the information that's been released so far. I could be completely incorrect. Only time will tell.
W.O.P.R. War Operations Planned Response....Shall we play a game?

Char_Ell's Avatar


Char_Ell
08.04.2021 , 05:43 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Raphael_diSanto View Post
I think we need to start differentiating classes from story.

You don't have a "core" class. You have a combat style and a story.

This game, in essence, is basically dumping classes in the way that we have traditionally thought about them.

Now, you will choose a story. We can give these stories names to distinguish them, based on what happens in the story, or even maybe on the unique titles given by that story.
  • Hero of Tython
  • Havok Squad
  • The Barsen'thor
  • Privateer
  • Cipher
  • The Wrath
  • The Hunter
  • Forcewalker

This is fixed and cannot be changed, once selected.
No idea why you would want to needlessly complicate the situation by creating new names when the story is still linked to the base classes that existed in the game at launch. It was several years until BioWare decided to make players choose their advanced class at character creation. However now that BioWare has decided to make more than two advanced classes available to each base class with 7.0 it has created confusion because people either don't know or forgot about the base classes in the game because everybody is used to picking their advanced class at character creation, obscuring the fact that the story is still tied to the base class. It doesn't matter if you pick Juggernaut or Marauder at character creation if the only thing you are concerned about is playing the Sith Warrior story.

Republic faction has four stories and each story has a choice of two different advanced classes:
  • Jedi Knight (Hero of Tython) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel
  • Jedi Consular (The Barsen'thor) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Jedi Sage, Jedi Shadow
  • Smuggler (Privateer) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Gunslinger, Scoundrel
  • Trooper (Havoc Squad) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Commando, Vanguard

Empire faction has four stories:
  • Sith Warrior (The Wrath) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Sith Juggernaut, Sith Marauder
  • Sith Inquisitor (Forcewalker) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Sith Assassin, Sith Sorcerer
  • Imperial Agent (Cipher) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Operative, Sniper
  • Bounty Hunter (The Hunter) -> ADVANCED CLASSES: Mercenary, Powertech
Quote:
"RP'ing is super important, right? As a Star Wars game, people being able to immerse themselves in that world is very, very important. But having an instance or a server type dedicated to that doesn't necessarily like enforce a ruleset of you having to RP there. So what we felt was more important was making sure that we can build toolsets for RP'ers, things like being able to make your own chat channels and work within those chat channels and things like that. So know that it's very important to us that RP'ers have the tools they need to roleplay but we didn't feel that actually separating an instance type just for it was necessarily the right solution. So you're not at all forgotten. We definitely want to make sure that RP'ers are accounted for in those changes that we made."
Eric Musco, 2016 April 5 SWTOR Producer Livestream
https://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/58826060 - time reference 13:22 - 13:57

Aelyns's Avatar


Aelyns
08.04.2021 , 06:01 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Raphael_diSanto View Post
And then you have 16 combat styles, 8 of which you can switch between on any given character.

Force-based:
  • Guardian
  • Sentinel
  • Shadow
  • Sage
  • Juggernaut
  • Marauder
  • Assassin
  • Sorcerer

Tech-based:
  • Scoundrel
  • Gunslinger
  • Vanguard
  • Commando
  • Operative
  • Sniper
  • Powertech
  • Mercenary

This is not fixed and can be changed at any time during play (dark/light side restrictions for force-classes notwithstanding)

Your level, gear, story progression, etc will remain independent of those two things.

So your character could be, for example:

Level: 60
Story: Hero of Tython
Story stage: End of chapter 2.
Combat Style: Guardian

At this point, you could change your combat style to Sage. Your character would remain at level 60. You would still be playing the Hero of Tython story. And you would still be at the end of Chapter 2, about to head to Belsavis. You could do one mission on Belsavis and then decide you needed stealth for the next mission and switch to Shadow. If you wished to switch to Assassin, or any of the other DS-aligned force combat styles, you'll have to grind out the requisite DS Points (We don't know how this is going to work yet)

Or, you could be playing through the Hunter story, using the Commando combat style, so you can mow down Tarro Blood with an assault cannon. But for a given mission, you might decide that being a one-shot, one-kill sniper is more appropriate, so you can instantly switch to the sniper combat style, equip a sniper rifle, and away you go!

You don't "switch classes". There is no such thing as a class anymore. (Or there won't be, when the expansion drops). The developers could have decided that you gained individual levels in a combat style, but they chose not to.

Bear in mind, all of this post is my interpretation of the information that's been released so far. I could be completely incorrect. Only time will tell.
As the post above said there is already names for the classes. Your break down combat styles is sooooooo wrong. Where are all the tanking, dps and healing spec? Have you even tried the PST to have a clue on what is coming in the expansion? No wonder there is so much hate for the change. Clueless people posting BS nonsense as if they understand what is going on.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
08.05.2021 , 07:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelyns View Post
As the post above said there is already names for the classes. Your break down combat styles is sooooooo wrong. Where are all the tanking, dps and healing spec?
Just like today the Disciplines ("spec") are linked to an Advanced Class (Gunnery requires Commando AC, for example), when 7.0 drops they will be linked to a Combat Style (Gunnery requires Commando CS, to repeat the example).

Why do I say that? Well, because nothing else makes sense. That's why.

In effect, Combat Styles will be a more flexible version of the thing that people have been asking for for ages, the ability to change their Advanced Class.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
08.05.2021 , 07:31 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelyns View Post
Have you even tried the PST to have a clue on what is coming in the expansion?
You've overlooked a key piece; there are *three* sets of changes coming that are relevant to this conversation:
* Changes in ability sets (some of these are on PTS now)
* Advanced-Class change (hiding in the name "Combat Styles", but not yet up)
* Loadouts (aka Build Templates, a way to quickly change spec (or Combat Style) without having to set up your quickbars and gear and ... manually).

These three things are independent of each other, except perhaps one aspect of Combat Styles requiring part of the ability set changes (what happens to the "base class" e.g. Trooper ability category?). They could introduce CS without Loadouts (that would invoke a major flame-fest, by the way), or they could release just Loadouts without either of the others, as a big help for people who bought the Field Respec perk.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Aelyns's Avatar


Aelyns
08.05.2021 , 04:34 PM | #17
@SteveTheCynic
I have no idea what you are talking about. You quote me but your responds have nothing to do with what I posted.

The post that I quote and was talking about wants to rename the classes with the new new system which is completely dumb and pointless. Not only that but it add so much confusion because 95% of the people know whether they are playing Jug or Mara that it's the Sith Warrior story. The 5% that say they don't are just lying. But just quickly mention it since the post above mine called this out.

The main part I quoted just listed off the the current AC as the new combat style which cuts out different combat styles like Tank, Heal and DPS spec. Is Juggernaut a tank (immortal) or DPS (Vengeance). For people that are looking for information about the upcoming change and reads that complete nonsense is going to get confused and mad.

I tried to do the PST but their current step is so bad I logged out. They created whole new temp system just for testing on PST. Which was a hit mess.

Kissakias's Avatar


Kissakias
08.05.2021 , 05:15 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Wopr View Post
If I have a Jedi that's 100% light side and then I switch the class using this new UI to my Sage class which is dark side. Can this be done? Have both factions light/dark on 1 toon? Thanks
if you are cap light and turn into dark, you have to make your way to be neutral and then start the dark side lvl up.
basically need double work.
BUT .... you dont loose your light side tokens
BUT when you be dark, you cant use your light side tokens also.
Join us and earn gooood rewards using my referral http://www.swtor.com/r/ZvPhZd... Be a suber today!!
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Ramell's Avatar


Ramell
08.05.2021 , 05:29 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelyns View Post
The main part I quoted just listed off the the current AC as the new combat style which cuts out different combat styles like Tank, Heal and DPS spec. Is Juggernaut a tank (immortal) or DPS (Vengeance). For people that are looking for information about the upcoming change and reads that complete nonsense is going to get confused and mad.
The only nonsense is you trying to conflate specs and roles with combat styles. Different things have different names for a reason.
Advanced Class Juggernaut and Combat Style Juggernaut are the exact same thing, and have the same specs and roles available, so there's no reason for you to get confused and mad about how it works. They even have the same name.

The only real difference with combat styles is that any Jedi and Sith advanced class become available for any Jedi and Sith character, and the same for the non-force ones (barring alignment restrictions). Just to get the point across, there is no difference with tanking, healing or DPS for a given advanced class/combat style.