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Server Merge Discussion Thread


EricMusco

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Many servers are indeed dead, the health of this game indeed having plummeted severely. Thanks to the Rp'ers that may continue to be the case because they will shout and scream in their refusal to try out a server merge just so that the devs will have to look at another solution which will not cure the game's illness.

 

As stated in an earlier post of mine, server mergers are not a cure, they are a temporary fix. The playerbase will continue to decline unless they are given a reason to stay. Merging servers may provide fodder for grouping and give a temporary decrease to the wait in queues, but it does nothing to change the underlying reasons players are leaving the game.

Edited by PiiTarr
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It will be all sunshine and roses. If a "troll" manages to "crack the code", the new password will be instantaneously sent to all RP'ers on the "megaserver", and the "troll" will be instantly removed from the RP instance. Yeah, right.

 

I'm sure that while many RP guilds may use the Enjin forums, I'm sure that not all do, and that doesn't take into account those RP'ers who may not be in an "RP guild".

 

Even if BW chose to implement your "suggestion", it would not be sufficient.

 

The troll would have to reported. Then, a GM would have to investigate determine if a new password is needed, and if needed, generate that new password. then it would need to be sent to the appropraite GM's (with the hopes that all GM's get it). Then the GM has to actually receive that password, which could be days depending on how often they log in or check e-mail. That wonderful process you "suggest" could take days or even a week or more, meanwhile locking out any potential new RP'ers from even trying to RP without first finding a guild, as well as those RP'ers who have to wait for the new password.

 

By that time, the troll's damage will have been done, and they will have had all that time to continue wreaking havoc.

 

Let's not forget how easy it would be for a troll to join an "RP guild" on an alt or second account, just to get the password, leading to even more havoc and a never ending cycle.

 

Let's cause the RP'ers even more inconvenience, and make it easier for them to be trolled and griefed. That will go over well with the RP'ers.

 

How would you like it if every time you tried to log into the game, your password was changed and you may have to wait a week or more for BW to send you that new password?

 

Oh please you're overreacting. It wouldn't take a week, because guild leaders are constantly in contact with one another through skype and enjin so a need for a change of password or a new password would be reported almost instantly to them and they'd reply back right away. The same goes for the mod team of the SWTOR-RP Enjin forums.

 

And do you know how elaborate joining an RP guild already is? You submit an application form, wait until someone of the guild officers has read it, then you are talked to and asked questions and only after that screening you're either allowed into a guild or not. It really takes a lot of effort to go through that, which already is an effort barrier to trollers who'd have to go through all that to obtain the password.

 

Also, we already have changing codes which even change every few seconds! They're called security keys and if you have one tied to your account you can't enter the game without it so the concept of a changing password isn't a new one but already is a security meassure of this game.

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Strawman much? Nowhere in this thread has anyone from the RP community stated they shudder because of trolls or fear them. Every single player in this game has an absolute right to play the game without being harassed. Period. What the trolls are doing with their mounts is a form of harassment. I find it interesting you're resorting to insulting the entire RP community (of which you claim to be a part). When your "argument" resorts to personal attacks it means you've lost.

 

Oh but I am not personally attacking anyone, I am merely stating facts that I can prove by showing you the forums of SWTOR-RP and some of the nasty things that have occurred there. And I was a part of the RP community for years until I decided to move to the Red Eclipse because the toxic behaviour pushed me and many others away, but also the lack of pve and pvp activity on the Progenitor.

 

And naturally, harassment should be eradicated as it always will be something abominable. But to assume all of the server will conspire to harass the RP community without end is a bit silly and not true.

 

But you know what the funny thing is, I realised that anything I'd say wouldn't be an argument in your eyes or a lesser argument simply because I don't agree with you. Correct me if I am wrong but it certainly feels that way with the quotation marks and such.

Edited by Ylliarus
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And naturally, harassment should be eradicated as it always be something abominable. But to assume all of the server will conspire to harass the RP community without end is a bit silly.

 

One guy recently hospitalised 19 people and killed another in a matter of seconds. It doesn't take "all of the server" to ruin a lot of peoples' days. But if the population of Harbinger is even 0.01% trolls, that handful of shtters could be a sizeable nuisance to any former resident of Ebon Hawk would now be forced to RP with that player pool.

 

We're not talking about Cthulu rising from the deep and disintegrating RPers' souls here. The concern is about an immortal, unswattable fly, bouncing repeatedly against your face, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's a minor irritation, but it is irritating, and people oughtn't have to put up with that.

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One guy recently hospitalised 19 people and killed another in a matter of seconds. It doesn't take "all of the server" to ruin a lot of peoples' days. But if the population of Harbinger is even 0.01% trolls, that handful of shtters could be a sizeable nuisance to any former resident of Ebon Hawk would now be forced to RP with that player pool.

 

We're not talking about Cthulu rising from the deep and disintegrating RPers' souls here. The concern is about an immortal, unswattable fly, bouncing repeatedly against your face, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's a minor irritation, but it is irritating, and people oughtn't have to put up with that.

 

But that fly is already present on RP servers so the community already has to put up with it. It's annoying yes, but to use it as a reason to block a revival of this game and solving the issue of a fragmented and scattered playerbase that is resulting in dead servers? I'd say no, personally

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Oh please you're overreacting. It wouldn't take a week, because guild leaders are constantly in contact with one another through skype and enjin so a need for a change of password or a new password would be reported almost instantly to them and they'd reply back right away. The same goes for the mod team of the SWTOR-RP Enjin forums.

 

And no one ever goes on vacation, has internet trouble or has any other reasons that might keep them away for days?

 

I think you are deliberately dismissing and downplaying the potential for inconvenience your 'suggestion" would bring.

 

And do you know how elaborate joining an RP guild already is? You submit an application form, wait until someone of the guild officers has read it, then you are talked to and asked questions and only after that screening you're either allowed into a guild or not. It really takes a lot of effort to go through that, which already is an effort barrier to trollers who'd have to go through all that to obtain the password.

 

And no "troll" would ever go trough all of that so that they could cause future grief for RP'ers, basically any time they wanted to cause grief? heck, the trol doesn't even have to cause the grief himself. All he would need to do is to give that new password to one or more friends and let them cause the grief. This would even have the added advantage of keeping him from being suspected. After all, how could he be the "troll" if he's part of the group being griefed?

 

In addition, if it is so difficult and so much trouble to join an "RP guild", wouldn't that preclude any of those "new RP'ers" from trying it out if they cannot get into the RP instance without the password which is "restricted to 'RP guilds' that use the aforementioned RP forum"?

 

 

 

Also, we already have changing codes which even change every few seconds! They're called security keys and if you have one tied to your account you can't enter the game without it so the concept of a changing password isn't a new one but already is a security meassure of this game.

 

The difference between your 'suggestion" and a security key, is the person with a security key has the key and is not at the mercy of a bevy of other people.

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And no "troll" would ever go trough all of that so that they could cause future grief for RP'ers, basically any time they wanted to cause grief? heck, the trol doesn't even have to cause the grief himself. All he would need to do is to give that new password to one or more friends and let them cause the grief. This would even have the added advantage of keeping him from being suspected. After all, how could he be the "troll" if he's part of the group being griefed?

 

In addition, if it is so difficult and so much trouble to join an "RP guild", wouldn't that preclude any of those "new RP'ers" from trying it out if they cannot get into the RP instance without the password which is "restricted to 'RP guilds' that use the aforementioned RP forum"?

 

Oh my that is quite an elaborate conspiracy that you are describing! Infiltration, espionage, sabotage... sounds like quite the spy movie if you ask me. I am sure they could make it a plot for a James Bond movie titled "The Troll Who Loved Me". But all jokes aside, what you state is a slight exaggeration. I highly doubt there would be someone that dedicated to spoil the RP for the community like that to actually infiltrate guilds like that. Guilds already are highly cautious with who they accept and already turn people away because they have insufficient knowledge of the Star Wars lore for example. You really have to prove yourself to a guild if you are to be accepted.

 

And no one ever goes on vacation, has internet trouble or has any other reasons that might keep them away for days?

 

I think you are deliberately dismissing and downplaying the potential for inconvenience your 'suggestion" would bring.

 

One answer: guild officers. When a guild leader is gone for a few days or otherwise indisposed their trusted guild officers take over for the time they're gone. They could easily fill in for the guild leader in the case of a change of password.

Edited by Ylliarus
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Oh but I am not personally attacking anyone, I am merely stating facts that I can prove by showing you the forums of SWTOR-RP and some of the nasty things that have occurred there. And I was a part of the RP community for years until I decided to move to the Red Eclipse because the toxic behaviour pushed me and many others away, but also the lack of pve and pvp activity on the Progenitor.

 

And naturally, harassment should be eradicated as it always will be something abominable. But to assume all of the server will conspire to harass the RP community without end is a bit silly and not true.

 

But you know what the funny thing is, I realised that anything I'd say wouldn't be an argument in your eyes or a lesser argument simply because I don't agree with you. Correct me if I am wrong but it certainly feels that way with the quotation marks and such.

 

I don't recall anyone ever saying that every member of a given server's population would "conspire" to harass Rp'ers.

 

The fact remains, though, that Harbinger has the reputation of having the highest percentage of "trolls" and that the Harbnger population, in general, has shown itself, for YEARS, to be intolerant of RP'ers.

 

Given that it only takes a few players, or one player, to cause grief for many others, the Harbinger community has already shown itself to be intolerant of RP'ers and that Harbinger has the reputation for having the highest percentage of trolls, is it any wonder that many feel that forcing RP'ers onto a server with that toxic cesspool community will only lead to RP'ers being trolled, griefed and otherwise harassed?

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Oh my that is quite an elaborate conspiracy that you are describing! Infiltration, espionage, sabotage... sounds like quite the spy movie if you ask me. I am sure they could make it a plot for a James Bond movie titled "The Troll Who Loved Me". But all jokes aside, what you state is a slight exaggeration. I highly doubt there would be someone that dedicated to spoil the RP for the community like that to actually infiltrate guilds like that. Guilds already are highly cautious with who they accept and already turn people away because they have insufficient knowledge of the Star Wars lore. You really have to prove yourself to a guild if you are to be accepted.

 

I think you vastly underestimate the jollies that some get from ruining others "fun" and the lengths they will go to in order to do so.

 

 

I notice that you also didn't address the fact that your "suggestion" would almost certainly make it impossible for anyone wanting to "dip their feet into RP" to do so.

 

It sounds to me like there really is no "upside" for Rp'ers then, if there is not real possibility of seeing new RP'ers, and they face the added prospect of additional harassment by being forced into a server with a community that has already shown itself to be intolerant of RP'ers.

 

It sounds like the only people who would see an "upside" would be those who covet a "megaserver" or rely upon the LFG tool. Even the latter is debatable, as there are many who simply do not use the LFG tool, preferring to do their group content with friends and guild members.

Edited by Ratajack
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It's common for MMO's to consolide populations, in fact Blade and Soul MMO just had one, it was forced but you could self move in advance if you wanted too. Keith said no forced mergers, you can stay on low pop servers if you like and keep guilds together. In other MMO'S there are many more examples where subs are treated worse.

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/server-consolidation-august-9/

Edited by IntegrationArch
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Oh but I am not personally attacking anyone, I am merely stating facts that I can prove by showing you the forums of SWTOR-RP and some of the nasty things that have occurred there. And I was a part of the RP community for years until I decided to move to the Red Eclipse because the toxic behaviour pushed me and many others away, but also the lack of pve and pvp activity on the Progenitor.

 

And naturally, harassment should be eradicated as it always will be something abominable. But to assume all of the server will conspire to harass the RP community without end is a bit silly and not true.

 

But you know what the funny thing is, I realised that anything I'd say wouldn't be an argument in your eyes or a lesser argument simply because I don't agree with you. Correct me if I am wrong but it certainly feels that way with the quotation marks and such.

 

I didn't say you were personally attacking anyone, I clearly said you were insulting the entire RP community with your imagined "shuddering" and "fear." Again, no one has expressed those feelings in this thread, except you.

 

Also, no one has stated an entire server will conspire to harass the RP community. Again, you create a fictitious argument simply to knock it down. What has been said is there is a higher concentration of trolls.

 

You're wrong. You simply stated something that wasn't an argument against anything anyone else had said and I am countering that. You then (twice, once in the post I quoted and once in another post you made in reply to someone else) slandered the entire RP community. As for your other arguments, they've been knocked down point by point, and you also chose to completely ignore my post about mergers being a temporary solution rather than a cure. So I'm left with the impression there is no point in trying to discuss this with you any further as you keep using strawman tactics and insults.

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I think you vastly underestimate the jollies that some get from ruining others "fun" and the lengths they will go to in order to do so.

 

 

I notice that you also didn't address the fact that your "suggestion" would almost certainly make it impossible for anyone wanting to "dip their feet into RP" to do so.

 

It sounds to me like there really is no "upside" for Rp'ers then, if there is not real possibility of seeing new RP'ers, and they face the added prospect of additional harassment by being forced into a server with a community that has already shown itself to be intolerant of RP'ers.

 

It sounds like the only people who would see an "upside" would be those who covet a "megaserver" or rely upon the LFG tool. Even the latter is debatable, as there are many who simply do not use the LFG tool, preferring to do their group content with friends and guild members.

 

Have you ever tried RP? On the Progenitor or Ebon Hawk? People trying to dip their feet into RP already have a severe problem doing that because guildless RP'ers are basically ignored. I had lots of examples where we were in a guild event and someone passed along, saw us and asked if they could join. 99% of the time the answer was "no, we're in a guild event, please move along". And the cantinas? If you aren't a known Rp'er or aren't in a guild 99% of the time you'll be ignored and not interacted with. So if you truly want to dip your feet into RP you have to become part of a guild or otherwise you won't be able to. The Swtor-rp forums are full with new rp'ers complaining about that which also sadly were the threads where the toxic nature of the rp community surfaced.

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Yes, they are. It's the very defintion of an indicator actually, which means not telling the whole story but giving an idea.

 

What are you comparing them to? How do you know the focus on story didn't drive more people to planets as opposed to fleet (i.e. kotfe/kotet has no need of fleet if you aren't wanting to LFG) ... it's a crappy metric to measure anything by.

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Again.. not listening. :rolleyes:

 

RPers are not claiming trollers will kill RP. They are claiming that they have the right to not easily be trolled endlessly by anti-RPers, which is what you instancing approach will offer up. Get clue please, because harassment condoned WILL drive good players away from a game.

 

To be fair this whole harassment argument seems to be just grasping at threads here in regards to population decline.

 

I mean it's all just unfounded assumption on both sides.

 

Maybe the amount of trolls who would return would offset the amount of RPers lost - hey benefit to BWA. :p

 

Maybe the majority of trolls left are bored PVP/Pug players (maybe, heh) waiting for queue pops who would have better pops and smaller queue times under merged circumstances and thus trolling would actually be less than it is now?

 

There is the possible positive of merged servers exposing more people to RP actually grows the RP community and leads to a better RP experience for many.

 

Fact is - we don't know what effect it might have for sure yet it seems many in this thread are taking it on themselves to state factually "RP will be ruined if servers are merged". That is just one assumption amongst many.

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Because I tested it out already: I made a toon on Harbinger to test it out. Do you know what I experienced when I asked about roleplay? Roleplay is not accepted here, so shut up about roleplay. I did that on the fleet and 2 other areas, same response, so how is that proving you right that more people will want to RP with that type of attitude. Sure....... and I have a bridge I can sell you in Arizona (and Arizona being a desert state)

 

I deleted that toon and said never would I go to Harbinger again after that sort of treatment.

 

But that's a flawed study, people know you have RP servers. They would basically see what you are doing as troll bait.

If there were merged servers then the "this is not an RP server piss off" no longer applies.

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I didn't say you were personally attacking anyone, I clearly said you were insulting the entire RP community with your imagined "shuddering" and "fear." Again, no one has expressed those feelings in this thread, except you.

 

Also, no one has stated an entire server will conspire to harass the RP community. Again, you create a fictitious argument simply to knock it down. What has been said is there is a higher concentration of trolls.

 

You're wrong. You simply stated something that wasn't an argument against anything anyone else had said and I am countering that. You then (twice, once in the post I quoted and once in another post you made in reply to someone else) slandered the entire RP community. As for your other arguments, they've been knocked down point by point, and you also chose to completely ignore my post about mergers being a temporary solution rather than a cure. So I'm left with the impression there is no point in trying to discuss this with you any further as you keep using strawman tactics and insults.

 

This is exactly what I am talking about. I am trying to hold a reasonable discussion with you but when I am depicted as the boogeyman for not agreeing with you and countering your arguments with my own, then sorry but eventually my patience will wear thin. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that about the shuddering and being afraid, but it does seem like it if you take a step back and look at what you and others say.

 

Also, someone that disagrees with me countering my arguments is not proving me wrong or my arguments being knocked down. If you see it as that I suggest you rethink what a discussion means, namely an exchange of arguments and points. And there are enough people who agreed with what I said but you conveniently disregard them.

 

You want me to be wrong, those opposing server merges also want me to be. I get that, but that doesn't mean I actually am. Whether I am right is also the question and would have to be seen in the future, but the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean I am wrong. But I do realise it's easier for those who disagree with me to depict me as the big bad boogeyman. Because what if what I said actually made some sense! No we can't have that, can we...

Edited by Ylliarus
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What are you comparing them to? How do you know the focus on story didn't drive more people to planets as opposed to fleet (i.e. kotfe/kotet has no need of fleet if you aren't wanting to LFG) ... it's a crappy metric to measure anything by.

 

But it's the only metric those desiring server merges can point to and say "this population is dead", while they ignore that people may be on guild ships, in strongholds, on other planets or any place other than fleet.

 

"If you are not just sitting on fleet waiting to fill out their group, your playing the game wrong."

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You're right. The only people who don't think it's an indicator are the same people claiming everything is fine when it's clearly not.

 

I used to sub and used fleet lots, now I sub and haven't used fleet in months. Does that mean I don't play any longer?

 

Pfft.

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Don't forget the numbers of people who have already given up everything to move away from the toxic cesspool that is Harbinger.

 

Some people want to just force them back into that cesspool. That will work out well.

 

How many numbers? It seems you know something we don't? I mean is it more than those that move there to have a more populated server?

You also earlier mentioned all the players/guilds staying on low population servers to avoid being on a high populated server?

 

What is a low populated server in this case? What is a high populated server? What are the other servers? How many players and guilds are doing this? Are these large enough numbers in comparison to those who would benefit from a merge to warrant concern for the "greater good"?

 

You bandy around a lot of "posts" stating things like "numbers" without actually giving any numbers. Until then a lot of what you are posting is really not carrying much weight to anyone reading along (which I had done of your posts to this point and this is my opinion of what you are basically posting lately).

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But it's the only metric those desiring server merges can point to and say "this population is dead", while they ignore that people may be on guild ships, in strongholds, on other planets or any place other than fleet.

 

"If you are not just sitting on fleet waiting to fill out their group, your playing the game wrong."

 

It's not the one and only indicator, but it can point to the fact something may be wrong because the Fleets usually are the hub of the server. They're the central place where players go to, they're designed to be liked that. But if you see there are 2 map instances of the Imperial fleet for example with 100+ people on the Red Eclipse and only 1 map instance with 89 people on the Progenitor at the same time during European prime time, you can assume which server has the higher population.

Edited by Ylliarus
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Strawman much? Nowhere in this thread has anyone from the RP community stated they shudder because of trolls or fear them. Every single player in this game has an absolute right to play the game without being harassed. Period. What the trolls are doing with their mounts is a form of harassment. I find it interesting you're resorting to insulting the entire RP community (of which you claim to be a part). When your "argument" resorts to personal attacks it means you've lost.

 

You are correct, everyone should be able to play without being harassed. The thing is, people are doing it to all groups, (let me reiterate) all groups. This thread has degenerated to "role-players are being specially targeted" and therefore we should not merge servers. I beg to differ. They even troll each other. People of all playstyles are being trolled. I started roleplaying when the original D&D with 3 6x8 paperback books in a boxed set, first came out. But even I find it ridiculous that one "specially targeted group" claims that others are putting themselves above this group and trying to force an issue. These others can say the same in rebuttal. You are saying they should pay to move an entire guild while losing assets like guild ships and decorations so as to not inconvenience you. Again, trolling is running rampant in this game and all groups are being targeted. What makes one group special?

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But that's a flawed study, people know you have RP servers. They would basically see what you are doing as troll bait.

If there were merged servers then the "this is not an RP server piss off" no longer applies.

 

Oh but yet people are telling people to come to Harbinger? So asking about roleplay guilds is trolling, interesting concept when people keep saying come to Harbinger. Can't have it both ways, either everyone is accepted or they are not and no merger is going to change that.

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I didn't say you were personally attacking anyone, I clearly said you were insulting the entire RP community with your imagined "shuddering" and "fear." Again, no one has expressed those feelings in this thread, except you.

 

When your "argument" resorts to personal attacks it means you've lost.

 

Err what? You literally stated he is resorting to personal attacks?

 

When your argument resorts to you saying you never said somethin that anyone can quote you as saying ... you've already lost. ;)

 

You're wrong.

 

Wow, great argumentative skills there.

 

there is no point in trying to discuss this with you any further as you keep using strawman tactics and insults.

 

Strawman does not mean what you think it means.

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But it's the only metric those desiring server merges can point to and say "this population is dead", while they ignore that people may be on guild ships, in strongholds, on other planets or any place other than fleet.

 

"If you are not just sitting on fleet waiting to fill out their group, your playing the game wrong."

 

I find torstatus to be a good source of overall population, people may "poo poo" it but they when it comes to any counter evidence - that evidence thus far has been non-existant.

 

As to the "dead" servers simply logging in an opening ones eyes is enough to see the state of those servers.

 

As for populated servers and if they are growing or declining and by how much - fleet is not a metric you can use. It's very hard to say for example how much Ebon Hawk population is changing over time accurately - all we can generally say is the entire games population is on the decline based on the torstatus trend analysis.

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How many numbers? It seems you know something we don't? I mean is it more than those that move there to have a more populated server?

You also earlier mentioned all the players/guilds staying on low population servers to avoid being on a high populated server?

 

What is a low populated server in this case? What is a high populated server? What are the other servers? How many players and guilds are doing this? Are these large enough numbers in comparison to those who would benefit from a merge to warrant concern for the "greater good"?

 

You bandy around a lot of "posts" stating things like "numbers" without actually giving any numbers. Until then a lot of what you are posting is really not carrying much weight to anyone reading along (which I had done of your posts to this point and this is my opinion of what you are basically posting lately).

 

This very thread has had plenty of posts from people who intentionally moved AWAY from Harbinger and that are very happy on their current server and do not wish to be moved to a higher population server, let alone be forcibly merged into the cesspool of Harbinger's community. Almost all of the other "merge servers NOW!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!" threads do, as well.

 

I have no hard numbers, but those factions do exist and should be acknowledged and not ignored or dismissed. Those people who have moved AWAY from Harbinger and any other players who do not want to be forcibly merged with Harbinger's toxic cesspool community should not be forced to do so

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