And that is the problem. There is no majority to send a message which is why this continues to go back and forth as it does. Both sides claim to have the majority but the bickering back and forth pretty much proves there isn't one. There is really nothing more this thread can contribute because it is the same old arguments for and against that have gone on since the thread started.

Then it is time for the Devs to share what they think should be the course to follow because we ourselves won't get any further. I am not saying an official statement of "this is what we're going to do" but instead "these are the options we (the dev team) will have to choose from".

I'm not saying that no one wants server merges.

 

The reality is that, even in this thread, most of the posts either for or against server merges are made by the same few people on either side.

 

Now, answer this:

 

If so many want server merges and/or want to play on higher population servers, then why are they not transferring to the higher population servers now, and why would they choose to remain where they are if BW chose not to force everyone onto a single "megserver"? You have even admitted that many would choose to avoid the "megaserver" if they were given a choice? Why is that if so many want server merges and higher populations?

Again you misintepret and change my words. I said that I would view a megaserver as the most optimal solution, but server merges is what most of the people in favour of it want.

 

And you very much know why people don't move yet, because strongholds, guilds and character renames aka technical issues have to be solved worst. You're trying to prove me wrong so badly that you have forgotten your own arguments as to why you're against server merges amongst others. I also want server merges or megaservers only on the moment they have fixed all the technical issues regarding character name duplicates, strongholds not transferring along or entire guilds moving. Until then I don't want server merges either, but the moment they solved those issues I see no more barricades to move.

Maybe you missed the highlighted part of my question.

I understand that many have chosen not to move now due to issues surrounding transfers, but is so many want server merges and/or a "megaserver", why would they choose not to move if BW resolves those issues?

Why would you be afraid that people will choose to stay where they currently are even if BW resolves all the issues surrounding transfers, if so many want server merges and/or "megaserver"?

If there are so few that would choose to stay on their current server and not move the the "megaserver", then what would it hurt to leave them that option?

Then it is time for the Devs to share what they think should be the course to follow because we ourselves won't get any further. I am not saying an official statement of "this is what we're going to do" but instead "these are the options we (the dev team) will have to choose from".

Keith's interview would be a good place to get the answers you seek, although those answers will not likely be the ones you want to hear.

Speaking about compromise: What about a server-wide RP instance (read to the end before you cry out^^), which has a separate cooldown for instance switching of, say, 1 month? Server-wide in that case would mean that once you switch there it applies to all planets (except for fleet, maybe, that would have to be debated) and once you decide to join or leave the instance you can't revert your decision for the next month. That would at least disencourage trolls, because in order to troll RPers they had to transfer a toon to an instance where they don't have access to general chat for PvEers and can't group with other PvEers for world bosses, conquest chanpions etc. That would effectively still work like a different server for RPers, only that they would now share the same LFG and PvP queues as everyone else on that hypothetical megaserver.

I have absolutely no idea if that would be technically possible, but that specific solution is also not the point I'm trying to make here. Everyone is only focusing on "Megaserver" or "seperate server" and yelling at each other, but if we all try to think about an in-between instead of endlessly repeating the same arguments, maybe we can come up with a solution that is not too complicated (which mine might be^^) and also would be a viable compsomise for both sides?

And just to present a slightly different view point: I am also an RPer, but playing on EU servers. Here I participated in RP not only on RP servers but also on PvE ones (namely Red Eclipse and T3-M4, which is german PvE). I can only say that the vast majority of encounters on both PvE servers with PvEers were absolutely positive and at least I perceived it to be very welcoming or at minimum not-minding communities. I don't know if Harbinger would be a completely different matter though, as I've never played on a US server. But also from my experience when playing ESO I can say that megaservers definitely aren't a certain death to RP (even though they may have the potential to be).

And to the argument that players that stay on their server are happy there and would never move: I can only say that's not true for me. What's keeping me on Vanjervalis Chain (german RP) at the moment are my character names, which are admittedly very important to me, and the small circle of friends I have there. But under the right conditions (friends lists being contained, solution for name collisions and so on) I would be absolutely enthusiastic about a bigger community I can play with, while still having access to my home community. At least I would lose nothing in terms of community feeling with server merges, but only gain access to a larger pool of potential new friends without having to leave some of my friends behind.

Or, as it happens right now, having to decide if I want to move with about half of my friends to T3-M4, or stay with the other half that doesn't want to move. The situation right now is tearing the community apart already.

Maybe you missed the highlighted part of my question.

 

I understand that many have chosen not to move now due to issues surrounding transfers, but is so many want server merges and/or a "megaserver", why would they choose not to move if BW resolves those issues?

 

Why would you be afraid that people will choose to stay where they currently are even if BW resolves all the issues surrounding transfers, if so many want server merges and/or "megaserver"?

I didn't miss that part but it's your own presumption they wouldn't move. There are many waiting to move but the technical issues regarding transfers stand in the way. I said that people would stay once this would be solved, yes, and I meant those people being you. But I would want to see everyone move so that we can stay in once piece and not be a fragmented playerbase. It's what this entire discussion is about so I omitted mentioning the obvious of you wanting to stay.

Look at it from my perspective: people are given a choice move, all technical issues with guilds etc are solved. Half if not the slight majority of the player population on your server will move to the more populated server. Now the already small population on your server has lost half it's size, the RP community are the only ones left there. What are we left with? A dead server. Perhaps you'll manage for a while to be "self-sufficient", great! But in the meanwhile new players will come to your server and notice that's it dead. It is more likely they'll assume the game is dead except for some roleplayers hanging around and abandon the game before they tried any other server and SWTOR will continue having its reputation of a dead game. This will deter new players and continue to impact the game's lifespan which will shorten significantly. And then we all lose, because the game will shut down and none, not us, not you will be able to play or in your case roleplay.

Now, imagine there is a megaserver, 2 USA and 1 European. A new players enters the game for the first time and will see activity everywhere. They will stay in the game, progress their characters, what happens? The game gets the reputation of an active and alive MMORPG. More players are attracted to it and the playerbase expands. Old players may hear of a "revival of SWTOR" and hop back on to see what's what. The playerbase of the game grows, the game's lifespan is prolonged. Maybe the game will get more subs and that means potentially more funding from EA. More funding from EA means more resources for the devs of this game to work with.

So from what I see we have two choices, one leads to a revival of the game, the other to its downfall in which all of us are duped.

Keith's interview would be a good place to get the answers you seek, although those answers will not likely be the ones you want to hear.

You painstakingly point to that interview as if it's the Holy Grail but omit everything else Keith said about his view of server merges in this thread and on the forums. Listen to the Bioware Influencers who are in direct touch with Musco and the Dev team, all of them are saying that server merges are a fact for in the future and it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'. If I recall correctly Sam from SWTOR Central, a Bioware Influencer, said that he guarantees server merges will happen.

Also as I said before, one can personally disagree with something but still do what the majority asks. Angela Merkel was against introducing marriage equality in Germany, but because she knew the populace was yearning for a bill that would enable it she brought that bill to the Reichstag. She voted 'against' to ease her own conscience, but the German parliament voted 'for' and the bill was passed. So don't hold onto Keith's statement he is against forcing people move as if it is the 100% guaranteed truth, because you ignore the other posts and comments he made which clearly indicite the Dev team is considering all options, including forced moves.

Listen to the Bioware Influencers who are in direct touch with Musco and the Dev team, all of them are saying that server merges are a fact for in the future and it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'.

 

Source?

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anything from any BW source that server merges are a fact for the future, and it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'.

Source?

 

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anything from any BW source that server merges are a fact for the future, and it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'.

Read what I said, "Bioware Influencers", I am talking about the Community content creators such as on Youtube, the streamers and so on who stand in direct contact with Eric Musco to relay community feedback to Bioware and in turn get to relay stuff from the Devs to us.

Here are some videos as the source:

These are two specific videos made about the subject, you'd also have to watch the individual streams of those content creators on Twitch and Youtube where the subject of server merges is being discussed. The part where Sam from SWTOR Central talks about it that he is absolutely certain they will happen I happen to not be able to pinpoint, I know it was on Twitch yesterday or the day before as I had asked something about them in the chat. You'd have to look through his streams on Twitch yourself, but he also mentions it often in his streams on Youtube, so go and have a look yourself.

Read what I said, "Bioware Influencers", I am talking about the Community content creators such as on Youtube, the streamers and so on who stand in direct contact with Eric Musco to relay community feedback to Bioware and in turn get to relay stuff from the Devs to us.

 

Here are some videos as the source:

 

These are two specific videos made about the subject, you'd also have to watch the individual streams of those content creators on Twitch and Youtube where the subject of server merges is being discussed. The part where Sam from SWTOR Central talks about it that he is absolutely certain they will happen I happen to not be able to pinpoint, I know it was on Twitch yesterday or the day before as I had asked something about them in the chat. You'd have to look through his streams on Twitch yourself, but he also mentions it often in his streams on Youtube, so go and have a look yourself.

So, you're choosing to put more stock in a third party source than in an actual BW source? That makes absolutely perfect sense.

I'll take the actual BW source for now, with the understanding that nothing is carved in stone at this point.

Even your statement that BW is considering all options, including forced merges, does not mean that server merges are a foregone conclusion.

BW could just as easily resolve all those issue surrounding transfers and then leave the choice of server and server population up to individual players and/or guilds.

So, you're choosing to put more stock in a third party source than in an actual BW source? That makes absolutely perfect sense.

 

I'll take the actual BW source for now, with the understanding that nothing is carved in stone at this point.

 

Even your statement that BW is considering all options, including forced merges, does not mean that server merges are a foregone conclusion.

 

BW could just as easily resolve all those issue surrounding transfers and then leave the choice of server and server population up to individual players and/or guilds.

They are not a third party? Didn't you read what I say? The Bioware Influencers are handpicked by Bioware and stand in constant contact with Eric Musco. They are given access to the test servers to test specific things out, they have to give a monthly report to Bioware regarding player feedback from their communities. They are under a Non Disclosure Agreement because they are give information about future game content and are asked for their opinion about it. They release information when Bioware gives them permission to or says they can talk about a specific subject. They are not just some third party who got their hands on rumours, they actually get their information from Bioware.

I'm honestly baffled you never heard of them given that they were even featured in Bioware's streams.

So, you're choosing to put more stock in a third party source than in an actual BW source? That makes absolutely perfect sense.

The reality is, third party sites give us far better information than Bioware does. Dulfy is a 3rd party site...I think it's safe to assume you think she's legit? Dulfy is where I go for a LOT of information on this game, not Bioware.

Following this line of thought, Bioware Influencers are even more trustworthy and reliable because the information they get is straight from Bioware and the Devs themselves so... can't get more reliable than that.

Source?

 

I may have missed it, but I've not seen anything from any BW source that server merges are a fact for the future, and it's not a question of 'if', but 'when'.

Also for your convenience the thing I said about Sam from SWTOR Central is in this stream, I finally found it:

http://www.twitch.tv/swtorcentral/v/165598937?sr=a&t=0s

Also in this video Swtorista from The Academy series talks very positively about server merges/server transfers and how they ended up well for her and her guild. I think it's somewhere in the middle of the video where she talks about it but I am not sure:

They are not a third party? Didn't you read what I say? The Bioware Influencers are handpicked by Bioware and stand in constant contact with Eric Musco. They are given access to the test servers to test specific things out, they have to give a monthly report to Bioware regarding player feedback from their communities. They are under a Non Disclosure Agreement because they are give information about future game content and are asked for their opinion about it. They release information when Bioware gives them permission to or says they can talk about a specific subject. They are not just some third party who got their hands on rumours, they actually get their information from Bioware.

 

I'm honestly baffled you never heard of them given that they were even featured in Bioware's streams.

Are they employed by BW? Are they official BW sources? If not, then by definition, they are third party sources.

Are you saying that BW has told these third party sources that server merges are "a foregone conclusion", "an imminent fact" and "a question of WHEN, not IF", even though the official BW sources are only saying that all options are being considered, but that BW does not want to FORCE people to move?

 

Also in this video Swtorista from The Academy series talks very positively about server merges/server transfers and how they ended up well for her and her guild. I think it's somewhere in the middle of the video where she talks about it but I am not sure:

 

I'm glad that server merges/transfers went well for her, but that was NOT the case for many.

Are they employed by BW? Are they official BW sources? If not, then by definition, they are third party sources.

 

Are you saying that BW has told these third party sources that server merges are "a foregone conclusion", "an imminent fact" and "a question of WHEN, not IF", even though the official BW sources are only saying that all options are being considered, but that BW does not want to FORCE people to move?

The Influencers are not officially employed by Bioware, or are they, not sure about their official relationship as they don't get paid for it. But aye, they are official Bioware sources, handpicked by the Devs, when it comes to SWTOR. You can find how they work in the Dev livestreams on Twitch, I am not making this up.

As to a 100% guarantee they can't give as they are under a Non Disclosure Agreement, but one can read along the lines of what they say and find the hints in what they say. Naturally this isn't a 100% certainty, I concur, however, it does indicate strongly what Bioware is thinking but more importantly what they want the community to think, as that is what the Influencers are for to influence Bioware's thoughts with community feedback and to influence the community with official information straight from the Dev team at Bioware.

But everyone is assuming RP will die because of some trollers (come on, it won't RP'ers are more dedicated than that). By fearing them as much as you do at the moment you are giving them the power to influence you. How can you know that RP will die in the case of a megaserver, there is absolutely no way to know that. Why is none of the rp'ers considering the fact that a larger playerbase means more people to RP with? Or are the RP'ers that elitist and want to stick to their own little clubs and allow no one else in? Is it a case of "we're better than them" mentality? Megaservers will be a huge boost to RP, I am convinced of that and I long for the day I will be proven right.

If larger numbers of players = more RP, then the servers that currently have the highest populations should also have the most RP, right? If that is the case, why do we see no RP on the Harbinger and TRE fleets?

I'm glad that server merges/transfers went well for her, but that was NOT the case for many.

Not only her but also her entire guild, RP guild even. They had a flagship, large amount of members, and still they decided to move to a more populated server, that being the Ebon Hawk due to it being an RP server. The entire guild found it worth abandoning their fully unlocked guildship to be with a larger playerbase, to have every single member transfer on their own.

If larger numbers of players = more RP, then the servers that currently have the highest populations should also have the most RP, right? If that is the case, why do we see no RP on the Harbinger and TRE fleets?

But the reason is very simple? Because originally neither of those servers were RP servers? Because rp'ers are afraid to move to higher populated servers? Because when new players come to the game and ask for RP in genchat they're informed Ebon Hawk and Progenitor are RP servers?

TRE and Harbinger never have been RP servers so there was never a RP community build up there, this was from the very start of the game. Since then people have build up guilds and legacies on the servers they were so they naturally don't want to abandon that and wait for the technical issues to be fixed. Until there are multiple servers there will never be a RP community on TRE or Harbinger, because people will flock to the original RP server. But if there is 1 megaserver, that issue will be solved.

But the reason is very simple? Because originally neither of those servers were RP servers? Because rp'ers are afraid to move to higher populated servers? Because when new players come to the game and ask for RP in genchat they're informed Ebon Hawk and Progenitor are RP servers?

So you're saying there are no RPers on those servers? In which case, merging servers won't increase the available RPers because they're already on the RP servers.

Not only her but also her entire guild, RP guild even. They had a flagship, large amount of members, and still they decided to move to a more populated server, that being the Ebon Hawk due to it being an RP server. The entire guild found it worth abandoning their fully unlocked guildship to be with a larger playerbase, to have every single member transfer on their own.

And nothing is stopping other guilds or players who want higher population servers from doing the same to move to a higher population server. They are CHOOSING to stay where they over being on a more populated server.

I wonder why that is if merges and transfers are so wonderful.

But the reason is very simple? Because originally neither of those servers were RP servers? Because rp'ers are afraid to move to higher populated servers? Because when new players come to the game and ask for RP in genchat they're informed Ebon Hawk and Progenitor are RP servers?

 

TRE and Harbinger never have been RP servers so there was never a RP community build up there, this was from the very start of the game. Since then people have build up guilds and legacies on the servers they were so they naturally don't want to abandon that and wait for the technical issues to be fixed.

So, your answer is to forcibly move players who have been on an RP server with a respectful community, possibly for years, into a server that also contains the RP intolerant, toxic cesspool community that currently inhabits Harbinger?

If you choose to believe that will make the RP'ers feel very welcome and foster a larger RP community, I hve some prime real estate on Alderaan to sell you.

So you're saying there are no RPers on those servers? In which case, merging servers won't increase the available RPers because they're already on the RP servers.

Because people have google and search for "RP servers on SWTOR" and are pointed to Ebon Hawk and Progenitor. And who is to say there wouldn't be people on the TRE and Harbinger who'd want to try out RP when it does come to them in a megaserver or server merge? They would be new to RP but surely the RP community is not that elitist to consider themselves above teaching new people how to RP? They might not have engaged into RP because of the effort barrier that would be going to a RP server and the transferring issues, but if it comes to their server through a merge they might try. Also, new players who are interested in RP would be able to go to only one server so the amount of people increases, surely you understand that?

So, your answer is to forcibly move players who have been on an RP server with a respectful community, possibly for years, into a server that also contains the RP intolerant, toxic cesspool community that currently inhabits Harbinger?

 

If you choose to believe that will make the RP'ers feel very welcome and foster a larger RP community, I hve some prime real estate on Alderaan to sell you.

Megaserver is the only answer or way that can help this game due to the wasteland servers that are traps for players not knowing any better.

Because people have google and search for "RP servers on SWTOR" and are pointed to Ebon Hawk and Progenitor. And who is to say there wouldn't be people on the TRE and Harbinger who'd want to try out RP when it does come to them in a megaserver or server merge? They would be new to RP but surely the RP community is not that elitist to consider themselves above teaching new people how to RP? They might not have engaged into RP because of the effort barrier that would be going to a RP server and the transferring issues, but if it comes to their server through a merge they might try. Also, new players who are interested in RP would be able to go to only one server so the amount of people increases, surely you understand that?

I understand that nothing except a "megaserver" will satisfy you and and that you are, at best, grasping at straws in a vain attempt to justify your refusal to consider any other option.