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Mercenary Feedback Thread

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Luuin's Avatar


Luuin
10.17.2021 , 11:37 AM | #21
Gotta say, that level 70 talent row is god awful. You're forcing players to choose between their best DCD or their hard stun (hydraulic overrides is w/e). Like.....why?

cflems's Avatar


cflems
10.17.2021 , 05:48 PM | #22
I like how this was meant to be a DCD pruning but mercs can still select every DCD (plus trauma regulators and energy rebounder) as well as electro net. Seems more like a utility pruning because no one will be able to select hardstun or hydraulic overrides or missile blast root. What should be done is something more along the lines of pitting DCDs versus one another, for example:
Energy Shield at comes at level whatever.
Next level choice: Trauma Regulators vs Energy Rebounder vs 20% bonus healing and interrupt immunity in shield.

Missile blast comes at level xxx.
Next level choice: Missile blast root vs Electro Net vs Hydraulic overrides.

Kolto Overload comes at level xxx.
Next level choice: Super Kolto (70%) vs Responsive Safeguards vs Stabilized Armor (Stun DR)

These are the kinds of choices every other class has to make, while mercs are keeping everything vs Juggs with no ED, snipers with no heals, sorcs with reduced DR, maras with reduced mobility, etc etc etc., all of whom the mercs can still net for free. Let mercs keep some of their mobility (or even increase it, I'd love to see the hydraulics speed utility from PT as a choice) and stop them from facetanking so much.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
10.17.2021 , 06:37 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by cflems View Post
These are the kinds of choices every other class has to make, while mercs are keeping everything vs Juggs with no ED, snipers with no heals, sorcs with reduced DR, maras with reduced mobility, etc etc etc., all of whom the mercs can still net for free. Let mercs keep some of their mobility (or even increase it, I'd love to see the hydraulics speed utility from PT as a choice) and stop them from facetanking so much.
This is my issue with the Mercenary on PTS at the moment and why I've struggled to even start writing feedback without it becoming a rant about how much of a failure the Mercenary is on the PTS right now.

Every other combat style has lost what players consider to be essential abilities, mobility, stuns, dcds etc. Mercenaries actually became MORE survivable on the PTS. Not only can they choose every single one of their current dcds and dcd buffs on the PTS on every single discipline, but chaff flare now has BOTH IO and Arsenal buffs. (For the unaware this means every discipline can get a 35% defence chance increase AND absorb 2 force or tech attacks completely ever 45 seconds). Sure Mercs lose hydraulic overrides - but who cares, they still have 2 jet boost charges despite Powertech losing their basic charge AND hydrualic overrides. (Seriously, why does a ranged class have more base mobility than a melee class??) Sure Mercenaries lost their hard cc, but they still keep their knockback and their insta cast soft stun baseline.

The current state of the Mercenary is honestly in my opinion a complete failure when compared to every other combat style and also the general philosophy behind these changes. The ABC choices for the Mercenary are terrible because they are all the same. Mercenary on live is the single most bloated class and instead of removing bloat, their abilities and utilities just got shoved into the ABC tree instead of removing the unnecessary items like missile blast, stealth scan, explosive dart (to name a few). This results in multiple levels where you choose between multiple abilities as opposed to the one that other combat styles have at level 70. Thus where some other combat styles gain new and interesting choices, Mercenaries simply have all the choices they currently have on live. Do I want explosive dart or stealth scan? No...thus I only have one choice here. Do I want to keep some things I can't remember or ridiculous amounts of self healing?

The specific ability morphs for the disciplines are ok overall. Arsenal's aoe morphs feel too weak because they only deal 50-25% damage on long cooldown abilities. IO could have replaced the need for missile blast by a simple incendiary missile proc where the initial hit does more damage once per 15 seconds when used on a 30% hp target. Bodyguard morphs are generally ok, aoe healing feels weaker than operative and sorcerer and I would have liked to see a morph that lets you refresh kolto shells.

I really don't have many positive things to say about Mercenary. I find them really boring on live because they have quite literally everything. This was a perfect opportunity to remove bloat and streamline the class and honestly, this has not achieved the developer philosophy to remove unnecessary abilities, mobility and dcd creep. Mercenaries feel too similar to live in a patch where practically every other combat style has been gutted in any combination of mobility, stuns and dcds and overall ability numbers.

Once again, how do Mercenaries STILL have this much bloat when Sentinels and Marauders have barely twenty total abilities?

Sorry for the more ranty writing style in this one, it really left a bad taste in my mouth and it doesn't feel like there's much point doing what I did for the other combat styles and listing out all the abilities and my thoughts when this is basically just the same Mercenary from live. I didn't think Powertechs had anything left to lose and they still received some of the most crippling changes so far. No jet charge baseline is madness (wait no that's a Sorc spec...).

Mercenaries had the most room for pruning and have gotten away with murder.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
10.18.2021 , 03:12 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
This is my issue with the Mercenary on PTS at the moment and why I've struggled to even start writing feedback without it becoming a rant about how much of a failure the Mercenary is on the PTS right now.

Every other combat style has lost what players consider to be essential abilities, mobility, stuns, dcds etc. Mercenaries actually became MORE survivable on the PTS. Not only can they choose every single one of their current dcds and dcd buffs on the PTS on every single discipline, but chaff flare now has BOTH IO and Arsenal buffs. (For the unaware this means every discipline can get a 35% defence chance increase AND absorb 2 force or tech attacks completely ever 45 seconds). Sure Mercs lose hydraulic overrides - but who cares, they still have 2 jet boost charges despite Powertech losing their basic charge AND hydrualic overrides. (Seriously, why does a ranged class have more base mobility than a melee class??) Sure Mercenaries lost their hard cc, but they still keep their knockback and their insta cast soft stun baseline.
You sound surprised. I told you, so long as the devs play mercs, ops, and snipers those classes will never see any meaningful change. Force users aren't allowed to deflect blaster bolts but it's cool mercs still can. Still have energy shield, kolto overload, electro net, responsive safeguards, cc, and double rocket out. Oh, and Operatives are still rollin' n' trollin'.

Meanwhile every PvP utility and ability Juggernauts & Marauders use was placed into competition with one another in the new ability tree.

Lol, I called it from the start.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
10.18.2021 , 06:36 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post
You sound surprised. I told you, so long as the devs play mercs, ops, and snipers those classes will never see any meaningful change. Force users aren't allowed to deflect blaster bolts but it's cool mercs still can. Still have energy shield, kolto overload, electro net, responsive safeguards, cc, and double rocket out. Oh, and Operatives are still rollin' n' trollin'.

Meanwhile every PvP utility and ability Juggernauts & Marauders use was placed into competition with one another in the new ability tree.

Lol, I called it from the start.
I don't like the idea that the devs allow personal biases to influence their design decisions because it's unprofessional and results in a poorer experience, but it really is sadly feeling that this is the case. We're rapidly running out of time before 7.0 launches and there haven't been many major changes based on the large amount of feedback.
Guardians got saber throw and guardian leap back which is awesome and I'm glad that happened - but then immediately after, Powertechs lost every single mobility tool to ABC. It just doesn't make any sense and if this is the direction Mercs and Powertechs are being taken for 7.0, I'm simply not going to play them. Mercs will still be the bloated favourite child and Powertechs will be gutted beyond reason. (I do like some of the survivability upgrades and nuances Powertechs got, but it's not enough)
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
10.18.2021 , 07:43 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
I don't like the idea that the devs allow personal biases to influence their design decisions because it's unprofessional and results in a poorer experience, but it really is sadly feeling that this is the case. We're rapidly running out of time before 7.0 launches and there haven't been many major changes based on the large amount of feedback.
Guardians got saber throw and guardian leap back which is awesome and I'm glad that happened - but then immediately after, Powertechs lost every single mobility tool to ABC. It just doesn't make any sense and if this is the direction Mercs and Powertechs are being taken for 7.0, I'm simply not going to play them. Mercs will still be the bloated favourite child and Powertechs will be gutted beyond reason. (I do like some of the survivability upgrades and nuances Powertechs got, but it's not enough)
I'm not a fan of it either. I just call it like I see it. Musco and Keith used to gush over their bounty hunters on stream. Guess what class got a ridiculous defensive buff in 5.xx?

Guy in charge of balancing mains Sniper. All of the sudden snipers get hydraulic overrides when they leave cover and phase walk. In what world does this make sense when they already have a massive accuracy debuff, cc, and immunity to cc when entrenched?

Now the majority of the classes get severely nerfed but somehow Mercenaries, Operatives, and to a lesser extent Snipers just skate on through? Lol.

It's like I said before, for mercs to be nerfed as hard as Juggernauts and Marauders their level 70 choice would have to be Responsive Safeguards, Kolto Overload, Rocket Out or Hydraulic Overrides and their hard CC would have to be removed like force choke. All relevant PvP utilities would become competitive choices in the skill tree arranged in a manner where you can never have all of them, or removed.

It'll never happen, and if it did they'd have made damn sure melee had 0 gap closers and cc first.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
10.18.2021 , 09:16 AM | #27
This thread is kind of funny at this point...
People who actually play Mercs disappointed at having to make impossible choices in the tree over loss of functionality versus people who wanted them gutted angry that they supposedly still have everything in direct opposition to the reality of it.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
10.18.2021 , 09:41 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This thread is kind of funny at this point...
People who actually play Mercs disappointed at having to make impossible choices in the tree over loss of functionality versus people who wanted them gutted angry that they supposedly still have everything in direct opposition to the reality of it.
Nah. I don't want mercs gutted. I don't want any of the classes gutted since it results in less fun overall. However, if that's the direction Bioware wants to go then gut them equally.

Hydraulic Overrides / Responsive Safeguards / Electrodart =/= Mad dash, Saber Reflect, Enure || Undying Rage, Mad Dash, Force Camo.

The one thing the changes have in common is that they break the classes in one way or another. I'd rather they just scrap the idea entirely.

Before that though, I'd love to see a duel between a Merc that had to choose either Hydraulic Overrides / Responsive Safeguards, and a Marauder that has no CC, no Undying Rage, and no Force Camo lol.

WaywardOne's Avatar


WaywardOne
10.18.2021 , 09:46 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This thread is kind of funny at this point...
People who actually play Mercs disappointed at having to make impossible choices in the tree over loss of functionality versus people who wanted them gutted angry that they supposedly still have everything in direct opposition to the reality of it.
Just for the record I barely play my level 75 merc/mandos and think they should -probably- (don't know for sure) be nerfed a bit. But I'm fundamentally opposed to what BW's doing here.

If an ability is too much, nerf it. Don't make a player give up two other abilities to keep the broken one(s).

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
10.18.2021 , 10:30 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
This thread is kind of funny at this point...
People who actually play Mercs disappointed at having to make impossible choices in the tree over loss of functionality versus people who wanted them gutted angry that they supposedly still have everything in direct opposition to the reality of it.
Merc players have gotten too used to having an answer for every single situation they come across. At least Merc players have the option to choose practically every one of their current dcds, have the choice to pick a hard stun etc.

Look at Sentinel. They are losing half their dcds, half their mobility and a lot of abilities aren't even in ABC. They don't have a single stun in their kit as a fully melee damage combat style.
Look at Assassins, they have one dcd base that doesn't do anything vs force and tech attacks.
Look at Powertechs, they have to opt into their engage tools at the expense of losing access to anything else at those ABC levels.

I'm against ability pruning to this extent, but it is absolutely clear that Mercenaries have been under pruned compared to everyone else despite them needing the most pruning. Look at the differences in their ABC choices between each discipline compared to other combat styles. Mercenaries are keeping so many abilities and utilities that there are barely any discipline unique choices - that's just boring. I don't see how it can be argued that Mercs have "impossible choices" when their level 70 choice is between a fourth cc tool (knockback, net, soft cc baseline), a second mobility tool and a third dcd on a ranged off healing combat style...
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.