I would give your well written review credibility if you weren't comparing a 7 year old MMO to a MMO that has just been released. MMOs grow and evolve and WoW is no exception. You can't compare a team that has mostly never done a MMO and a team that has been working on a MMO and its expansions for 7 years. This is why I think its silly to review or compare MMOs until they are dead or near dead.

Instead compare this, WoW at launch and Old Republic at launch. Which is better? Hands down SWTOR.... believe me I know I've experienced both. Which will be better as the development team progresses? Who knows, but I intend to wait and see.

I find it laughable he even lists his success in CS and CS:S as a viable credential for reviewing an MMORPG. Fine, you were in a good guild in WoW, ok, list that... CS? Why?

He may as well just of left that off his post. Would the word record holder of Donkey Kong's high score be any less relevant? Probably not.

The only reason ToR won't die in 6 months is "Bioware" and "Star Wars." Will these two names carry the burden for a year? Two? I doubt it. But then again, I could be wrong. http://warhammeronline.com/ is still going. Don't fool yourself though. It's dead.

 

You may berate me now, but don't forget this review 1 year down the line. ToR is dead. Long live Titan?

You're wrong.

See, I can also see into the future!

Prophetic posts are funny. I don't disagree on some of your points, but yeah. Your review sounds pretty biased from the beginning.

Sorry you did not have a nice time playing an awesome game. I was not part of a top 10 wow guild, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night, so that makes my opinion on the game just as valid as yours, and I think it is the bee knees.

Oh man, kudos! haaaaaaa!

wow, a critical review i actually agree with.

for some reason, i think the whole "WoW in space" is apretty spot on.

The thing is just. its exactly what i wanted. i didnt want anything revolutionary. after playing wow as a hardcore raider for 6 years, i like how i can relax with this game. and the story is fantastic! what made me turn away from wow was the lack of interesting storylines, not the game mechanichs (which happen to be really good in wow).

so for me, WoW in space with awesome story is probably enough for me to stay away from wow and play this for a long time.

Instead compare this, WoW at launch and Old Republic at launch. Which is better? Hands down SWTOR.... believe me I know I've experienced both. Which will be better as the development team progresses? Who knows, but I intend to wait and see.

Here's a question for you, slick. Why are you comparing a game released 8 years ago with a game that will be released tomorrow? Lets get those synapses firing!

I like TOR and still I do think it has a lot of room for improvement. But its definitely not as bad as this review states, and I'm one of the more vocal critics here on the forums.

But this is basically a WoW fanboi review. You should just go back to WoW its like you are mad that you dont like the game.

The comparison is warranted because a) they are both MMORPGs and b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

Really? I though WoW was going after the bratty self worshiping teen bobpers , my mistake.

Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies (including the CGS invitational) and many many CS tournaments, including the CPL. I also had a stint working for an indie game developer several years ago. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and usually, I do.

You seem to have a high opinion of yourself, this actually makes your post less valid.

I skimmed over the rest, and I don't see the issues that you do. TOR has brought back some of the magic that other MMOs have lost. I won't go into too much detail but:

Combat is awesome, having no white damage is truly a step in the right direction. In EQ white damage was your damage, but in most MMOs since then white damage is only 10-30% of your actual damage output. When white damage is that insignificant, then it might as well not exist.

The story is awesome. Even the side quests feel a lot more significant than kill ten rats. Whether this is because they are more relevant, or simply because of the VO would be a subjective matter.

Companions are awesome. They have their own personalites and make solo play a joy.

You may hate pvp in SW:TOR, but I actually quite like it. I've not seen it at the highest level yet, so I cannot comment, but certainly at lower levels it is much better.

As I quit WoW, low level bg's were 'one shot or be one shot', an absolute farce. No tactics, no thought goes into it. Spam every button on your bar and chances are you just killed someone, grats!

There is no point even mentioning low level WPVP since it had died a death in WoW by the time I quit. Whereas I could have levelled a character up and done loads of it right up to the end of TBC, and early WOTLK, my newest characters ran around unchallenged mostly and my WPVP kills were usually in the single digits by the time I was eligible for Wintergrasp etc etc.

Anyway, OP, I assume you have played SW:TOR to level 50, done weeks of PVP research to justify your post?

OP you come in here spouting off about all your "accomplishments" as a gamer...which none of which are backed up...only referred to in a halfhearted attempt to solidify your opinion as mattering.

1.) If your a real gamer and someone with knowledge of MMOs, not every comparison would be towards WoW. Fundemental no-no of any MMO review is running back to WoW for cover. WoW did a great job of pulling millions of Subs, but its not the first MMO, its not the first one that did the things it did and it surely wont be the last.

2.) In one hand you give a tip of the hat to the storyline, and in the other your bashing it as being too distracting for your "hardcore race to the finish" attitude. BioWare has made it EVER so clear as you admit that the game is all about the Story...Yet you obviously came in thinking youd be able to easily avoid it and just mad-dash your way to the end. Well sorry it didnt work out that way for you. Maybe next time youll take it seriously when someone says "its not WoW".

3.) The game hasnt even officially launched, and yet your expecting it to be some highflying completely worked system that WoW is now. You bash everything that is typical of a fresh out of the gate MMO. Group finders, PvP, High-End Content, all of it always needs to be reworked and improved after launch to better fit the community its providing a service to. No matter how much planning or preparation, no plan is going to come thru without a hitch. But this factor right here is proof your not the "gamer" you proclaim yourself to be. Because a true gamer would of been thru enough Launches to know that this is typical of every game launch. Including your obviously favorite MMO WoW. WoW didnt have this amazing Grouping finders, or PvP or even the omgbbqsauce High-End Content that it boasts today...It took three expansions to get it where it is today.

So in conclusion. I think your review stinks of favoritism. You were expecting this game to be somehow just like WoW, but not just like WoW......You wanted people to take you seriously so you dropped a resume of gamer experience (which you didnt back up). Then you laid into it as if WoW is the principal MMO that all other MMOs should be graded on. WoW isnt the best nor is it the worst. But it definitely isnt the MMO you should run back to if your trying to convince people you know what your talking about.

Here's a question for you, slick. Why are you comparing a game released 8 years ago with a game that will be released tomorrow? Lets get those synapses firing!

I don't think you read the part about me mentioning how MMOs evolve and grow or the fact that I'm comparing both games at launch.

Synapses firing indeed....

Combat is awesome, having no white damage is truly a step in the right direction. In EQ white damage was your damage, but in most MMOs since then white damage is only 10-30% of your actual damage output. When white damage is that insignificant, then it might as well not exist.

But that's not all white damage does. It also provides a steadily dripping resource (ex: rage) that can be used freely. It's also off the GCD, which makes rotations more reliable.

QUOTE=dvvx;503590]Here's a question for you, slick. Why are you comparing a game released 8 years ago with a game that will be released tomorrow? Lets get those synapses firing!

Hypocrite.

thats is all

I love how the OP thinks the things he mentioned makes him someone to listen to.

Sorry to say they don't, you're about as worthwhile listening to as every other player playing because all you are is an opinion, and like all opinions you think yours is correct. Doesn't mean it is or it isn't, it's just an opinion like anyone else's.

People however shouldn't be dumb enough to buy into his opinion over anybody else's.

TOR is pretty fun so far, just playing through the story, swinging my light saber and such.

Will TOR last long term? sure, its the only starwars choice and that alone guarantees it will have a crowd.

I do not see TOR being a top player long term however. It is already dated mechanic wise and doesnt bring much new to the genre.

I just need it to last 6-8 months for me so that I can switch to Guild Wars 2 when it comes out. That game has RvRvR and that is really where its at, there has not been a truely successful RvR game since Dark Age of Camelot, and I think Guild Wars 2 might just be the worthy successor, which has me really excited. ToR offers no such play, just boring WoW battlegrounds.

I respect your opinion and share some of your concerns, UI scalability especially but...

Ignoring WoW's trailblazing here, Rift's "Black Garden" was a particularly awesome innovation.

This has to be the most puzzling comment for me in the entire review. How is a single tiered warfront with a king of the hill mechanic more innovative or awesome than hutball? I can understand if you dislike certain or all aspects of Hutball, but I'm not seeing anything particularly innovative about BG...

He made this post to piss people off, glad to see you are all falling for it.

good day

I enjoyed WOW since launch and the expansions even despite it's shortcomings.

Why is it that people who do not like the game, feel it necessary to cry and whine about it?

There really is a simple solution...don't buy the game...don't play it...go back to the six year old WOW and stop trolling the forums.

Actually, it's an objective review. I back everything up with in-game data. What part, in particular, did you have an issue with? For example, if I said Gigli is a terrible movie, that would also be an undeniable fact.

Really?

What "in-game data" did you use to formulate this fact....

ToR is dead.

..on the eve of general release?

You have an opinion on this game. I respect that, but it is wrong (and a little bit arrogant) to think that your opinion is somehow a factual review, more worthy than anyone elses, just because you played wow so much. Especially now that most of us are actually playing it for ourselves.

The fact this 'review' is just an opinion heavily tained by your extensive experience with wow. It's not a dig at you, everyone's got an opinion, but so have I.

Mine is more important to me than the thousands I'll read here because mine is based solely on my own experiences with this game. You have to understand that everyone thinks the same.

 

Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies (including the CGS invitational) and many many CS tournaments, including the CPL. I also had a stint working for an indie game developer several years ago. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and usually, I do.

 

Well, I'm some guy who has been mucking around on MMORPGs for the past 10 years. Mostly leveling up characters, rarely raiding or even joining guilds. I'm neither 3l33t, nor 00b3r, but my $15 a month is worth just as much as yours.

Everything I've seen in SWTOR has been fine. In fact, the few things I disagree with (alien races not being alien enough, mission areas implementation) were design choices on their part, so I respect that.

You may berate me now, but don't forget this review 1 year down the line. ToR is dead. Long live Titan?

Your story is both enthralling, interesting, emotion invoking, and cool. Thank you bro.

This is no argument. You wont compare your new car with the Ford Model T thats been out for 100 years. Why? Because your new car HAS to be BETTER. Because its not 1908 anymore and when a new car comes out, he has to be better than car than came out 100 years ago... So SWTOR has to be better FROM the start.

Horrible analogy. I don't even know where to begin...

The Ford Model T is not getting upgrades every 6 months to make it new and appealing. It's a physical, static object. You can't cram 30% more car into every 6 months to make it a better car. You can wash it, drive it, and make it look pretty with some chrome here and there... But in the end. IT'S A CAR.

An MMO is a game, something meant to be played in digital space. It's digital content that grows and expands over time. The more time put into the game, the more content. When a game is new, it has had LESS time to add all of the content that would be in another MMO that has been around for 7 years.

WoW level cap is so much higher that SWTOR. It's glaringly obvious that WoW would have more content. Holy crap, I can't believe anyone would every try and use CARS and MMO's in the same analogy. I am at a loss for words.