This question has without a doubt been asked before. Im not sure if here however and I couldnt see anything in the search bar.

 

So basically im playing a Jedi and im curious on what people think about relationships as a Jedi.

 

A lot of people tend to believe it is a dark side trait and if a Jedi is romancing then they are evil incarnate.

 

Ive read up various articles on the web and many of them give very good reasons for and against.

 

It would be nice to know what you guys think of it.

 

Is it "allowed" is it not?

 

Also what do you guys know about it in regards to the timeline?

 

Just as a quick input on my behalf the two main arguments for each side seem to be the Anakin/Padme story for possability of Sith corruption and the Bastilla/Revan story for the opposite.

 

Input?

Allowed? Certainly not. The Jedi order is a monastic one, shunning any and all connections to the physical world. Connections, be it friendship, love or really anything else, can and do become a source of.... pride, pain, fear, hate, passion, etc.

 

Anything and everything that could potentially lead to a loss of oneself is considered 'bad' and 'corrupting'. The Jedi are expected to give up themselves in order to better serve the Republic, and to attain a greater affinity with the Force.

 

Romance within the Jedi Order is strictly and expressly forbidden. There are examples for it, of course, or there wouldn't be much story to be told. It is not entirely clear what would happen if a Jedi were found to be in love, but it is strongly implied that the Jedi would be encouraged to end the relationship, or leave the Order. How, exactly, this was supposed to solve the core issue, I am not certain.

 

The Code itself says all you need to know on the matter;

 

There is no emotion, there is peace.

 

 

I do not agree with this belief, though I see the logic behind it. And that is what the Jedi really are all about; logic. They are Spock, with sweet mystical powers. They strive to be emotionless, and uninvolved, calculating and cold. They are neither compassionate, nor caring. They simply serve the Force, and the Republic.

 

 

I love the Jedi, don't get me wrong, and am a huge fan of the universe. But the Jedi really are a depressing lot when you really take a look at them. With, or without, the permission of their parents, children are taken to these temples where they are taught that the most basic part of them, emotion, is dangerous and is a thing to be buried, to be controlled. They are denied love, but are expected to sacrifice everything. They have no possession of their own, save their robes and lightsabers, and if they aren't 'good enough' to be Jedi, they become mystical farmers.

 

Small wonder the Dark side is considered so seductive; it promises anything and everthing one might desire.

 

Mind you, the Jedi weren't always such monk-like entities. It took centuries for this way of thinking to develop, and they came to the conclusion after many of their followers were corrupted.

 

 

 

On the flip side, it is not a 'Dark side' trait, either. The Sith shunned involvment for the same reasons a Jedi did; it lead to emotions in opposition to those the Dark Side fed on. Involvment could lead to love, and love would lead to selflessness, compassion, kindness, self-sacrifice. These are anathema to the Sith code.

 

In essence, neither order believed anything 'good' came of romance.

Edited January 15, 2012 by GoggleBoi

Allowed? Certainly not. The Jedi order is a monastic one, shunning any and all connections to the physical world. Connections, be it friendship, love or really anything else, can and do become a source of.... pride, pain, fear, hate, passion, etc.

 

 

Wrong. The Jedi Order in this era is a fair bit more liberal. Relationships are permitted IF the Jedi Council approves it which I doubt is an all together easy process but non-the-less exists. All children that are a result of it are raised by the Order as a whole. Obviously, not everybody is going to agree with them doing that but enough are 'okay, but only if...' for them to do it as a policy.

Edited January 15, 2012 by WhoDaresWins

In regards to "There is no emotion, there is peace" I think it is more a statement of mastering your emotions rather than completely removing yourself of them. It is impossible to be without emotion regardless the training.

 

An example taken from the films would be Obi-Wan when he whitnesses Darth Maul killing Qui-Gonn. Obi-Wan clearly feels emotion toward his master being killed however instead of being corrupted by that emotion he shows mastery over them and controls it.

from what I've read it's more discouraged than banned. It seems that among the -higher ranking jedi it's not as as they have better control over their emotions, even Master Satele has a relationship and child at some point.

 

On the other hand among padawan's and less experienced jedi it seems that it's just flat out banned.

 

 

 

It was definitely an issue brought up in the KOTOR game(s), which are in a lot of ways far more relevant to this game than anything in the films are. Jolee Bindo, especially, had a lot to say on romantic entanglements as a Jedi.

 

Furthermore, in the book "Revan" written by the guy who wrote the KOTOR games (did he write TSL? I know he wrote KOTOR 1 but am not 100% sure about KOTOR 2), which is last book about Revan before SWTOR was released, the book discusses several times that Revan had come to realize that love, specifically, if mastered correctly, could be a beneficial emotion that prevented people from turning to the dark side.

 

I think that in-game these types of entanglements are most certainly frowned on by the jedi order. However, out of game, I don't think that these types of relationships could lead to the dark side. I think that if handled incorrectly, they could very well lead to the dark side--if your lover is killed in battle by a sith or a dirty bounty hunter, you may very well wish to exact revenge (which we know leads to the dark side). However, if, in the context of the game, jedi in a loving relationship made it clear to their partners that if they were killed, no matter the consequence, they would never want their partner to walk that path, love could very well be a beneficial emotion to the jedi.

 

Furthermore, past the movies, when Luke Skywalker rebuilds the jedi order in the books, he himself is married and has a child. And so do almost all of the main characters involved in the jedi order. So it's safe to assume that Luke Skywalker's jedi order, which can be argued to be very stable and powerful when compared to most jedi orders throughout the history of star wars, actually promotes and nurtures love. Could it be that part of where Luke's jedi order gets it's strength and resolve from is, in fact, love?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Theron_Shan

 

You may find this slightly intresting.

The Code itself says all you need to know on the matter;

 

There is no emotion, there is peace.

 

Lets nail this misconception once and for all shall we.

 

The code is badly worded. It does not mean that there is no emotion, it means that a Jedi is supposed to be in CONTROL of his/her emotions and at peace. The Jedi are most certainly NOT Spock. During training, Jedi are actively encouraged to explore their emotions in order to better understand them, and there are hundreds of examples of Jedi expressing emotion such as sorrow etc.

 

According to one char' in SWtOR Jedi are allowed to marry with the consent of the Jedi Council. Once again Bioware are setting canon here (as they first did in Knights of the Old Republic), as it is still unclear just exactly when the Council actually begin to forbid marriage....

 

This is what Daniel Erickson (lead writer on SWtOR) had to say on the subject:

 

Easy to give the official answer. But first let's make sure we're all on the same page. Cultures change over time. They move one way then another, values shift, influxes of new peoples or discoveries change what is considered normal, etc. So if we're strictly talking about TOR then arguments based on things that happened thousands of years earlier or later aren't really applicable except to compare and contrast. Our views on modern marriage are not those of ancient Rome, and I doubt in 3,000 years they will be the same. So let's talk about where Jedi and Sith during the time period of The Old Republic.

 

For the last two hundred years the Jedi Order has been getting steadily more conservative. The liberalization that was necessary to restock the Jedi's numbers in the century after the events of Knights of the Old Republic II is now looked back on as a necessary evil. In the time that followed there were a number of terrible Dark Jedi who emerged as warlords and worse.

 

The two factors that showed up the most often in analysis of what caused Jedi to fall were unorthodox training methods and romantic entanglements. Thus in the following centuries training became more orthodox, with a return to the Jedi Order's earlier traditions. Which Masters were allowed to train padawans (and which could train more than one at once) became more restrictive and romance became one of the most guarded against emotional weakness. As the game opens it is possible to get married as a Jedi but it requires a lengthy process of approval including from the Jedi Council itself. A couple must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are both able to handle the strain romantic couples can endure. All children of Jedi are taken from them and raised by the Jedi as a whole, the same as other Force users in the Republic.

 

For the last thousand years the Sith Empire has needed stability and growth more than anything else. That means alliances that prevent power struggles. It means encouraging the creation of more children. Which in turn means marriage and a focus on family.

 

Where once the individual was judged largely alone, bloodlines are now incredibly socially important. A Sith from a long line of powerful Sith will find his path through the Academy easier, his opportunities increased. A family with no Force-users who suddenly find themselves with a Force-sensitive child will sacrifice everything they have to get them martial training and mental discipline coaches - for if that child passes the Academy and becomes Sith the entire family will rocket to the penultimate social class in Imperial society, side by side with moffs and governors, second only to Sith themselves.

 

Marriage among the Sith is usually between only two people and is often to forge a political alliance. Marriages of love do happen often among the lower ranked Sith but decrease the closer the Lord is to the top of the pyramid-shaped power structure. Marriages between Sith and non-Sith are rare as the Sith believe it dilutes the chance of a Force-sensitive offspring. It is a common, though unspoken of practice, for Sith parents to kill a non Force-sensitive offspring and deny it ever existed, claiming the baby was stillborn, etc. A Sith with openly non Force-sensitive offspring is believed to be admitting the thinness of the blood in his or her family line.

 

Adultery is common among the Sith but officially illegal. Divorce is strongly frowned upon but killing one's spouse for adultery or any other provable offense is socially acceptable. The one time you see obligatory divorce is when a member of the Dark Council breaks a couple apart to stop the assimilation of too much power in one place.

 

.......so there you have it. Yes Jedi can marry in this era.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Jahl

from what I've read it's more discouraged than banned. It seems that among the -higher ranking jedi it's not as as they have better control over their emotions, even Master Satele has a relationship and child at some point.

 

On the other hand among padawan's and less experienced jedi it seems that it's just flat out banned.

 

 

There's even a quest on Tython where you have to spy on 2 padawans that are in love and you pretty much tell them to break up or they'll be expelled from the order.

 

Perhaps it's more of a "You have to be mature enough" kind of rule. For example, they want to make sure that the padawans have full control of their emotions and don't just leap out in rage or jelousy if something were to happen.

 

Afterall, if you had broken up with your girlfriend and you see her with another man and you have the power to hurl giant objects at people, how under-control would you be? Especially if you were a padawan who was just discovering this power you have. I'm not above saying that I'd probably flatten the pair of them with a boulder, but I think you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

They want them to master their emotions first so that they can be perpared for what-ever life throws at them and they don't just go insane with power and go on a killing spree if something were to happen like the death of a loved-one or child.

 

That's my 2 cents anyway.

Wrong. The Jedi Order in this era is a fair bit more liberal. Relationships are permitted IF the Jedi Council approves it which I doubt is an all together easy process but non-the-less exists.

 

It apparently is a little known process, Kira only hears about it about halfway into your relationship and has to research it because she knows so little about it. In order to be eligible for the Council's approval both Jedi need to have been raised in the order, instantly making all avaible romances in the game inelligible. Furthermore, if the Council does give approval, the Jedi are only allowed to meet on Tython and are pretty much monitored the entire time.

 

So while it exists, it is hardly much more liberal than an all out ban on romance.

My two jedi characters follow the code completely and don't engage in any romance, however not that i can see the future but my characters will ultimately find that they can master their emotions and engage in a romance while still remaining a full light sided jedi.

My own Jedi, Karnel for the most part is a model Jedi, but due to his staggered training in his youth and the deaths of two of his previous masters, it had left him a tad unstable mentally. He follows a brutal code of honor alongside the Jedi Code, but he stays stoic unless around friends, where he loosens up.

 

Emotions themselves are not bad, Jedi are trained to control them and not let them cloud one's power to reason and think. You can get married within the Order, but you have to be able to prove that you are willing to let the other person go if your relationship gets in the way of serving the Republic and the Galaxy.

Jahl's post touches the key points on this topic and Daniel Erickson (SWTOR) explains beautifully what a love relationship means in the SWTOR universe. Great Job Jahl and Daniel.

 

 

Lets nail this misconception once and for all shall we.

 

The code is badly worded. It does not mean that there is no emotion, it means that a Jedi is supposed to be in CONTROL of his/her emotions and at peace. The Jedi are most certainly NOT Spock. During training, Jedi are actively encouraged to explore their emotions in order to better understand them, and there are hundreds of examples of Jedi expressing emotion such as sorrow etc.

 

According to one char' in SWtOR Jedi are allowed to marry with the consent of the Jedi Council. Once again Bioware are setting canon here (as they first did in Knights of the Old Republic), as it is still unclear just exactly when the Council actually begin to forbid marriage....

 

This is what Daniel Erickson (lead writer on SWtOR) had to say on the subject:

 

Easy to give the official answer. But first let's make sure we're all on the same page. Cultures change over time. They move one way then another, values shift, influxes of new peoples or discoveries change what is considered normal, etc. So if we're strictly talking about TOR then arguments based on things that happened thousands of years earlier or later aren't really applicable except to compare and contrast. Our views on modern marriage are not those of ancient Rome, and I doubt in 3,000 years they will be the same. So let's talk about where Jedi and Sith during the time period of The Old Republic.

 

For the last two hundred years the Jedi Order has been getting steadily more conservative. The liberalization that was necessary to restock the Jedi's numbers in the century after the events of Knights of the Old Republic II is now looked back on as a necessary evil. In the time that followed there were a number of terrible Dark Jedi who emerged as warlords and worse.

 

The two factors that showed up the most often in analysis of what caused Jedi to fall were unorthodox training methods and romantic entanglements. Thus in the following centuries training became more orthodox, with a return to the Jedi Order's earlier traditions. Which Masters were allowed to train padawans (and which could train more than one at once) became more restrictive and romance became one of the most guarded against emotional weakness. As the game opens it is possible to get married as a Jedi but it requires a lengthy process of approval including from the Jedi Council itself. A couple must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are both able to handle the strain romantic couples can endure. All children of Jedi are taken from them and raised by the Jedi as a whole, the same as other Force users in the Republic.

 

For the last thousand years the Sith Empire has needed stability and growth more than anything else. That means alliances that prevent power struggles. It means encouraging the creation of more children. Which in turn means marriage and a focus on family.

 

Where once the individual was judged largely alone, bloodlines are now incredibly socially important. A Sith from a long line of powerful Sith will find his path through the Academy easier, his opportunities increased. A family with no Force-users who suddenly find themselves with a Force-sensitive child will sacrifice everything they have to get them martial training and mental discipline coaches - for if that child passes the Academy and becomes Sith the entire family will rocket to the penultimate social class in Imperial society, side by side with moffs and governors, second only to Sith themselves.

 

Marriage among the Sith is usually between only two people and is often to forge a political alliance. Marriages of love do happen often among the lower ranked Sith but decrease the closer the Lord is to the top of the pyramid-shaped power structure. Marriages between Sith and non-Sith are rare as the Sith believe it dilutes the chance of a Force-sensitive offspring. It is a common, though unspoken of practice, for Sith parents to kill a non Force-sensitive offspring and deny it ever existed, claiming the baby was stillborn, etc. A Sith with openly non Force-sensitive offspring is believed to be admitting the thinness of the blood in his or her family line.

 

Adultery is common among the Sith but officially illegal. Divorce is strongly frowned upon but killing one's spouse for adultery or any other provable offense is socially acceptable. The one time you see obligatory divorce is when a member of the Dark Council breaks a couple apart to stop the assimilation of too much power in one place.

 

.......so there you have it. Yes Jedi can marry in this era.

It's definitely not allowed because if you remember the side quest on Tython,

 

(SPOILER)

you find two padawans in love and if you tell their masters they are removed from the order.

In regards to "There is no emotion, there is peace" I think it is more a statement of mastering your emotions rather than completely removing yourself of them. It is impossible to be without emotion regardless the training.

 

An example taken from the films would be Obi-Wan when he whitnesses Darth Maul killing Qui-Gonn. Obi-Wan clearly feels emotion toward his master being killed however instead of being corrupted by that emotion he shows mastery over them and controls it.

 

Wow this guys just made a GREAT point another example would be satine Obi Wan was heartbroken when maul pushed the dark saber through her chest but instead of pursuing vengeance he was strong and lived to fight another day

It's definitely not allowed because if you remember the side quest on Tython,

 

(SPOILER)

you find two padawans in love and if you tell their masters they are removed from the order.

 

Actually they are presented a choice end it or leave they chose end it

Wow this guys just made a GREAT point another example would be satine Obi Wan was heartbroken when maul pushed the dark saber through her chest but instead of pursuing vengeance he was strong and lived to fight another day

No. He didn't *just* make a point, great or not. He made that point eight years ago.

Alot of you guys made some valid points this is just how I feel. I think it's more like don't ask don't tell kind of situation. Of course it happens, and sometimes you get serious ones. From what has been going on been said in the story the Jedi order is on the brink of destruction, about to be wiped out. Wouldn't it make more sense for the romances to be allowed and then have force sensitive children (I know they all don't turn out with the gift) but it would deffinitly strengthen their order if the children with the gift were able to grow up knowing some basics of the order.

 

Like now in the story if you are a Jedi and married/romancing Lana it's pretty much out in the open. You're telling me from all those scenes of them kissing in front of other people no one knows what's going on. Even comes up in a quest when you first get to Onderon with Arn.

 

I think it was banned ages ago but times have changed since then, it's more of a you pretty much need to be a master rank, or one of our hero's that they aren't going to tell them they can't romance someone. It's like everyone know's whats happening but no one addresses it. The only thing close would be Gnost Dural and Lana having one of their philisophical talks, it wasn't romance related but I'm sure if someone is going to address it Gnost would for his book lol.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Bxvx