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CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
10.28.2021 , 04:59 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
That part that's wrong in your first post is "he kind of earned that". The word "earn" implies that it's a necessary return from something he did. It's not. And you just used similar language here again: "you reap what you sow" and "he drove those players..." is implying that nikana is the one in the wrong in that situation. He isn't. Being verbally abusive is not remotely as bad as actually throwing on someone.
so....if he didn't absolutely **** on teammates in chat, they'd still throw on him?

really?

REALLY?

ok. then. he has clearly contributed to ppl throwing on him and, thus, his own loss.

you don't have to like that ppl will do it, but you're deaf dumb and blind not to realize that nik (for example) caused this for himself.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
10.28.2021 , 05:49 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
so....if he didn't absolutely **** on teammates in chat, they'd still throw on him?

really?

REALLY?

ok. then. he has clearly contributed to ppl throwing on him and, thus, his own loss.

you don't have to like that ppl will do it, but you're deaf dumb and blind not to realize that nik (for example) caused this for himself.
Again, i'm not denying the reality that there is a causal chain of events here. But it is not an inevitable one; the throwers have to make a conscious choice to throw. Nikana didn't make them do it, and the **** talker is certainly not the one to blame.

Also, people (including nikana) threw on me when I was going for top 3 at the end of last season, and it had nothing to do with me **** talking. It had to do with me being disliked due to my outspoken positions on a few key issues. Would you also say that I brought that throwing on mysefl?

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
10.28.2021 , 05:56 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Again, i'm not denying the reality that there is a causal chain of events here. But it is not an inevitable one; the throwers have to make a conscious choice to throw. Nikana didn't make them do it, and the **** talker is certainly not the one to blame.

Also, people (including nikana) threw on me when I was going for top 3 at the end of last season, and it had nothing to do with me **** talking. It had to do with me being disliked due to my outspoken positions on a few key issues. Would you also say that I brought that throwing on mysefl?
no. i would say you're going outside the context of my post which you objected to and claimed to be invalid. you're pulling every instance someone could possibly stuck or throw.

the fact of the matter is that if you ride ppl hard and regularly. if you cross a person's threshold/line, then you're clearly and rather obviously risking that they will retaliate by throwing on you. so yes. you reap what you sow. if you are constantly a dick to ppl, someone is going to flip. or someones in the case of...iunno. however many years ago now. s11? when I was in the middle of it.

edit: i would categorize your example as win trading, fwiw.

edit2: to be clear, I don't think it's necessarily just (as in justice) that the person throw in retaliation to someone who verbally abuses them (I do think it's horribly unfair to the other 2 teammates), but at the same time, that never happens if the verbal abuser doesn't act like a *** in the first place. and the FACT of the matter is you know you're risking that someone will /stuck or throw on you if you continually berate them or personally insult them. lastly, your example of your "verbal abuse" is insultingly NOT insulting. you know damn well that's not the kind of thing that would set most ppl off. telling someone they're on the wrong target is a far cry from cussing them out and calling names.

edit3: last though b/c...other things...
BW doesn't micro manage things. if they did, the abusers wouldn't get away with constant abuse. reporting would be responded to more swiftly and severely. but that aside, if you don't want ppl to rage throw b/c someone is verbally abusive to them, the easiest and most absolute solution is not to verbally abuse/berate them in the first. place. you have absolute control over what you say. you have zero control over what the other person does in response to what you say. so if you don't want someone to throw on you b/c you acted like a jerk, you can control that by not acting like a jerk. I don't think this is radical, outside the box psychology here. and it's completely independent of your personal honor threshhold and so forth about what is/isn't sacred. it's simply being realistic. and again, "you reap what you sow" is quite accurate in these cases -- regardless of whether the person who throws is "100% wrong." it's not "just." it hurts a lot of bystanders. but...the community is made up of players not BW employees. we can (individually) control what we say. we won't. but we can. same for the person who flips out when someone says one too many insults to him and he throws. iunno man. some ppl can be really brutal and personal in their attacks. if you catch me on the wrong day, I might stay in the queue just to drag you down and make "you" as miserable as "you" (not personal) have made me. /shrug

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
10.28.2021 , 06:42 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
lastly, your example of your "verbal abuse" is insultingly NOT insulting. you know damn well that's not the kind of thing that would set most ppl off. telling someone they're on the wrong target is a far cry from cussing them out and calling names.
I know, I only included that because people on these forums tend to be like "well you probably only have that opinion because you **** talk people all the time!" Thankfully you didn't do that so it was unnecessary.

Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
edit2: to be clear, I don't think it's necessarily just (as in justice) that the person throw in retaliation to someone who verbally abuses them (I do think it's horribly unfair to the other 2 teammates), but at the same time, that never happens if the verbal abuser doesn't act like a *** in the first place
No, this is why I brought up cases like moophy and almighty, and why they're relevant. There was also another mara the other day who stucked it on his team because his teammates said he was doing nothing and it was like playing a 3v4 (i'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it, it wasn't anything crazy). Well, he felt disrespected and stucked it, basically throwing a tantrum and saying "well if it's really a 3v4 then go ahead, play it without me." In that scenario, are you really willing to say the **** talkers reaped what they sowed?

Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
BW doesn't micro manage things. if they did, the abusers wouldn't get away with constant abuse. reporting would be responded to more swiftly and severely. but that aside, if you don't want ppl to rage throw b/c someone is verbally abusive to them, the easiest and most absolute solution is not to verbally abuse/berate them in the first. place. you have absolute control over what you say. you have zero control over what the other person does in response to what you say. so if you don't want someone to throw on you b/c you acted like a jerk, you can control that by not acting like a jerk. I don't think this is radical, outside the box psychology here. and it's completely independent of your personal honor threshhold and so forth about what is/isn't sacred. it's simply being realistic. and again, "you reap what you sow" is quite accurate in these cases -- regardless of whether the person who throws is "100% wrong." it's not "just." it hurts a lot of bystanders. but...the community is made up of players not BW employees. we can (individually) control what we say. we won't. but we can. same for the person who flips out when someone says one too many insults to him and he throws.
We'll have to agree to disagree to a degree here because I still object to the way you're framing this. You're still blaming the victim in this situation far too much for my liking.

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
10.29.2021 , 08:25 AM | #15
all I said (or meant) was you can't be surprised when a person starts throwing on you if you're going to **** on them.

and I also said it's not a reason to scrap the solo queue.

before we derailed the whine thread, I'd say matchmaking and balance is a far greater failing than a few ppl throwing out of spite and some win-traders. and those are areas that BW can do better. still not worth scrapping the format for though. lul

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
10.29.2021 , 08:36 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
all I said (or meant) was you can't be surprised when a person starts throwing on you if you're going to **** on them.

and I also said it's not a reason to scrap the solo queue.

before we derailed the whine thread, I'd say matchmaking and balance is a far greater failing than a few ppl throwing out of spite and some win-traders. and those are areas that BW can do better. still not worth scrapping the format for though. lul
I have no issue derailing threads that are pointless to begin with lol.

The things the OP complained of have existed in solo ranked since season 1 as well, so I don't know why he thinks now is the time to end it. They're also rare enough that the vast majority of the time when you queue, you don't run into any of that stuff.

The main thing to complain about here is that Bioware hasn't banned a thrower or wintrader in over a year. They're not reading pvpreports or acting on in game reports, even when there is abundant evidence at hand. It really is inexcusable, but that's not a problem with solo ranked. That's just Bioware not doing its job.

limenutpen's Avatar


limenutpen
10.30.2021 , 01:53 AM | #17
I have done a lot of Solo-Ranked in the last two/three/four seasons, then at some point I got fed up cause the elite of DM started the harassing. Surely I get my bad moments when once brain due to the frustration stops to work as it should.
But the harassing by SOME so called high ranking guys, is annoying as ****.
I do everything to win a PvP game, even in Regz. A problem in ranked is in order to reach top tier you have to be able to carry most games, and many cannot do that. Team-work is hard to come by as well. Some classes also make it easier to carry a game and win without a support. I would say a good Operative, Sorc, and or Merc would be my top three. While other classes become very strong with support see a good PT, or Sniper.
In ranked it takes two to usually win a game, the guy who wins it and that who helps him. It is more or less the same in Regz, and out of ten games you get one competitive game. I have been the second guy in over 70% of my wins. Some players are genuine good, unfortunately a small majority, others are just Divas just cause they have a gold or top three, and others ride and temper with the system.
That is why something in SR needs to change, and I really do not know what it is. But the **** of the past eight years or so, which seems to never stop is not easy to resolve.
If SR needs to continue BW needs to starts getting it together fast, and monitor the games thoroughly and closely, or else the game mode can just as well be killed.
If I was BW I would start by saying one simple line. If you want SR to continue start by respecting the game.
Many Top Tier guys do not, and temper with everything just to get a ranking for a game which in two or three years time might be killed.
The problem in the SR is a small part of the player base, and really BW not monitoring.
We had eight years of this ****, and nothing has been resolved.
Eight years in a game is a lot of time, and since it seems that it cannot be resolved might as well just kill ranking from SR. If you killed Ranked-WZs which had a fair competitive nature you might as well kill this ongoing ****-Show.

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
10.30.2021 , 11:36 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by limenutpen View Post
If SR needs to continue BW needs to starts getting it together fast, and monitor the games thoroughly and closely, or else the game mode can just as well be killed.
i don't understand your point here at all. they should scrap solo queue because they aren't as active in policing it as they should be? have you played regs? ever?

no...really...ever?

regs are a cesspit. rage quits. rage fits. ignoring objectives. troll comps. troll abilities (biggs just published a short of him running regs with a buddy as a pair of conc ops just to troll players with op knockbacks). i just played a reg area with 3 dps 1 tank vs. 3 tanks 1dps. by your logic, BW should eliminate all pvp because they can't bother to fix it properly.

FYI: BW has done more to refine/fix solo than any other aspect of pvp. granted, the format started with a ton of glaring issues. but they did resolve most of them. I still don't understand why leader boards aren't server specific and role specific. but we're a far cry away from the wild west days of s1 or s2 where you just hopped factions to farm the baddie. they've eliminated hybrid specs (with perhaps the glaring exception of allowing tank classes to guard in dps specs). the servers are so few in number than you cannot run up your rating just b/c you're on a poe-dunk server with no competition. all of this is much more than they've done for regs.

Wolvel's Avatar


Wolvel
10.30.2021 , 01:29 PM | #19
You dont have a ELO in regs. If you go 100 wins and 0 losses in regs it doesnt matter. If you do the same thing in ranked its a big deal. No one cares about W/L ratio in regs. Ranked is supposed to be competitive, regs isn't.

EnzoForMe's Avatar


EnzoForMe
10.30.2021 , 08:08 PM | #20
The single biggest problem in ranked isn't the players, it's Bioware's total abdication of its responsibility to provide some form of moderation.

I've played ranked for a very long time, since pre-season 8v8 ranked. I have never seen us go this long without moderation (1+ year, most of season 13 and all of season 14 to date). No bans, no queue locks, even for a select few players who disrupt the queue on a daily basis despite the best efforts of a large number of players to submit detailed reports.

Vote kick was removed, and rightfully so, because BW recognized players shouldn't moderate ranked, but that was only the right call if they themselves moderate their game. They have utterly failed, it's absolutely pitiful, and it's caused potentially irreparable damage to ranked population.
Caprica, All-Galaxy Sniper & Gunslinger
Top 3 Team Ranked: Seasons 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 13
Top 3 Solo Ranked: Seasons 2, 5, 8, 10, 13