Jump to content

Bioware when will you finally bring Juggernaut/Guardian on par with every other class


velvet_illusionZ

Recommended Posts

Seriously Jugg/guardian where the first to feel the big nerf hammer, while you admittitly became more modest in ability prunning in later iterations of the pts Jugg/guardian still suffers dearly from your prunning choices. you made some changes to them, sure, but you didn't address the big elephant in the room yet-that is- buffing our bad defenses left to be competitive with what everybody else got...Enure/endure pain needs serious revamping as it is the worst dcd in the game, blade blitz needs a massiv cd reduction to balance it with what other escapes do (merc, ops, sins, sorc, pt come to mind). The way it is right now Juggernaut dps will be unplayable in any other content than story which is simply unacceptable. Your legendary item choices for Jugg/guardian is freaking joke compared to other classes...Now is the chance to finally balance all classes properly, please don't overlook Jugg/guardians again!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. Jugg/Guardians are going to be like punching bags for other team to farm DPS numbers. How ironic that the most recognize lightsaber welding class in the Star Wars universe seems like a joke. Don't get me wrong , I love other classes as well: I played Mara, Operative and Sorcs. It's just the typical Star Wars image like Guardian/Juggs are such a joke. I wonder if any if the devs actually play the Guardian/Jugg class. Edited by afwhoefuwov
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly this is nothing new. I never shook the feeling that this class is neglected/overlooked for years by the developers and the PTS changes aren't changing my mind about that. It's like they wanted to nerf the skank build in pvp but they nerf the whole class instead and make both PvE & PvP suffer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

its not, mainly for defence/immortal i assume as there is it is a bit to strong in pvp, the problem is dps jugg is awfull even with it and without no clue what will happen, sad that jugg/guardian has be come an actual meme at this point,

i fear its going to suffer the 4.0 sorc fate before it gets better

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@velvet: I thought you were kidding about the Grit Teeth change but no , they actually changed it to Saber Ward, which already has a longggg cooldown (unless you play Immortal but still even then it is long). Sometimes, I feel like the Dev has a vendetta against this class...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

either that or they are just too stupid to understand how their classes actually work.

Jugg/guardian is the most played class in the game, followed by sorc/sage...yet those too recieve the hardest nerfs while allready problematic classes like merc or operative keep all their cheeses....if they dumb us down the way they do. do it with every class! mercs are whining cause they are loosing 30% aoe damage reduction, we don't even have that, while keeping all their other dcds...all we have are outdated dcds like enure or enraged defense (not scaledd properly since 5.0).

Dear Devs-take your watered down juggs in ranked arena for once to really see what your so called balance looks like...If I wanna play merc-wars there are other games which do it far better than your going to be **** show of a game

Link to comment
Share on other sites

either that or they are just too stupid to understand how their classes actually work.

Jugg/guardian is the most played class in the game, followed by sorc/sage...

 

I sometimes wonder if BW's idea of balance is making all classes equally played.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand how this level of stupidity is even possible from the devs. Rage and Vengenance juggernauts were already the squishiest class in solo ranked in the current patch. Then you decided to make them even more squishy by forcing them to choose between Saber Reflect, Mad Dash, and Intimidating Roar, while all of these abilities are integral to not getting globalled. Now you want to nerf their strongest defensive to the point where they might actually be better off taking a dps tactical? If this keeps up, no one will touch juggernauts in pvp.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are sseing this wrong-juggs are op! they need to be nerfed cause some braindead kids in regs can't handle them-we can't let that happen, we need to nerf juggs into oblivion to please the skillless crowds in regs, no way around it.....ironie off

 

It's mystifying to me. I'm genuinely starting to think it's the devs themselves, a cluster of wokey manbuns who favor stealthiness and ranged because melee combat is just too aggressive on their senses. Either that or they're intentionally de-Star Warsing the thing in some misguided effort to court a larger player base.

Edited by Aghasett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

they can favor what they want but it is their job to balance the classes properly-period! which they are activly refusing to do aka refusing to do their job... i mean there are enough threads active with 99% negativ feedback to show them that what they are planing will not be accepted- how obvious do they want or need it to finally understand and do something to undo this wrong....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's mystifying to me. I'm genuinely starting to think it's the devs themselves, a cluster of wokey manbuns who favor stealthiness and ranged because melee combat is just too aggressive on their senses. Either that or they're intentionally de-Star Warsing the thing in some misguided effort to court a larger player base.

This probably is not far from the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand how this level of stupidity is even possible from the devs. Rage and Vengenance juggernauts were already the squishiest class in solo ranked in the current patch. Then you decided to make them even more squishy by forcing them to choose between Saber Reflect, Mad Dash, and Intimidating Roar, while all of these abilities are integral to not getting globalled. Now you want to nerf their strongest defensive to the point where they might actually be better off taking a dps tactical? If this keeps up, no one will touch juggernauts in pvp.

 

They promised to look into and buff our dcds, but instead they totally kill the dps jugg. i mean rage is completely unplayable on pts and vengeance is far to weak because the core dps jugg is just garbage. His survivability is a joke. And every new pts update they prove it time and time again that they are just ignorant and have no clue at all. It´s like they have no one who actually looks into or plays this class. BW stop this madness and save us the hussle to provide feedback that you will just ignore and just delete dps jugg.

Edited by -_Richtus_-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair- they did change some things up since the first iteration of the PTS,BUT the stuff they changed is nice but niche! they didn't change the core problems dps juggs have.

-poor suvivability (our defs are outdated and not scaled properly since ages)

-poor damage (Buff Rage, Buff Veng's dots)

-poor mobility (1 semi antifocus reflect, 1 escape on a freaking 45-35 sec cd-operatives get the same escape- minus the damage, which neglectable tbh- on a 8 sec cd with 2 freaking charges-*** Bioware)

 

taking the current pts as a baseline you should do the following to achieve better and fairer balance across the board

-you make us choice between 3 vital abilities, make this choice meaningful, not punishing:

-buff mad dash to have 2 charges on a 20 sec cd, take out the damage and convert it to a 50%slow for 6 seconds for evreyone hit by it-reasoning: no one uses mad dash for its damage but as our only (medicore) escape, make it an ability worth taking

-buff reflect to work on melee too (to bring it on par with mercs reflect), add 5 sec 20% DR after the reflect ends-reasoning: we are melee we need more DR than range especially considering all the slows and roots you gave ranged class which forces us to be sitting ducks most of the time

-buff endure pain-get rid of the health boost lost part, making it a flat 30% heal on a 1 min cd, buff its DR to 25% and give the same DR to rage too-Reasoning: you change grit teath to work on sabre ward, further weakening our allready atrocious defenses, this way you give us a reliable self heal on 1 min cd to compensate for that loss.* this make the level 78 choice less punishing as it becomes viable to choose pooled hatred for morre damage over cd reduction on enraged defense

-buff sabre ward to give us the same cc immunity maradeur's got.reasoning: too many slows and roots on ranged classes in the game, give us a chance to reach them without being nearly dead by the time we get to them cause they rooted/slowed us AND unloaded their burst on us will we walk up to them like an old man....

-scale enraged defense stacks properly to compensate for the dps increase we have seen since 5.0.

 

with these changes we finally won't be the laughing stocks of ranked pvp anymore without making the class too strong.

 

side node- its pretty obvious you guys wanted to nerf the skank tank playstyle which is valid and needed, but you didn't need to nerf the whole class into oblivion doing so. cut down immortals burst while upping its threat generating to still make viable tanks for pve-problem solved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Side note- the defs ARE listening- now it is our jobs to give them reasonable ideas how to fix this mess. The last thing we can afford is to let these threads die out! so we gotta continue to make noice and show them we are not gonna accept the current state of Juggernauts/guardians.

Please keep on commenting to make sure we won't get overlooked again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe they should make enraged defense like the reflect of mercs, where u are only healed if hitted directly,but not with aoe and dot. So they could leave grit teeth as it is now. I think that would be a better choice. But ye,immortal juggs deserved a nerf,and rage jugg deserves a buff. Veng jugg was fine as it was. I only ask myself if nerfing the survivability of juggs is the right choice. I mean,the problem with immortal juggs is actualy their dps when they using dps gear. THAT is what really needed to be changed. Edited by DougTheNoob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

braindead kids in regs can't handle them-we can't let that happen,

 

Im assuming you mean the reg Merc players ;)

 

We all know Mercs and operatives are the Devs favs. When was the last time that Operatives weren’t in the Meta? And Mercs have had the least amount of DCD nerfs applied out of all the classes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Side note- the defs ARE listening- now it is our jobs to give them reasonable ideas how to fix this mess. The last thing we can afford is to let these threads die out! so we gotta continue to make noice and show them we are not gonna accept the current state of Juggernauts/guardians.

Please keep on commenting to make sure we won't get overlooked again!

 

Are they listening though? We’ve been giving feed back since the initial guardian PTS BioWare have done very little to restore Jugg/Guardian DCDs to a similar lvl required. While every other class has had it easier on the nerfs.

Also, it’s less than a month till they release. Do you honestly believe they are still making changes? Everything is locked in at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im assuming you mean the reg Merc players ;)

 

We all know Mercs and operatives are the Devs favs. When was the last time that Operatives weren’t in the Meta? And Mercs have had the least amount of DCD nerfs applied out of all the classes.

 

It's not like the devs (employees) have the latitude do things on personal whims, so I'm more assuming they're focused on what they believe will attract business. Their motives behind gutting the specifically star wars-themed classes while enhancing the more generic ones seems like an attempt to attract a wider player base without much consideration for the present subscriber base - probably because it's just not that big.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe they should make enraged defense like the reflect of mercs, where u are only healed if hitted directly,but not with aoe and dot. So they could leave grit teeth as it is now. I think that would be a better choice. But ye,immortal juggs deserved a nerf,and rage jugg deserves a buff. Veng jugg was fine as it was. I only ask myself if nerfing the survivability of juggs is the right choice. I mean,the problem with immortal juggs is actualy their dps when they using dps gear. THAT is what really needed to be changed.

 

First they need to come to terms with the fact that ranged DPS and melee DPS can't be perfectly equal in terms of survivability and damage. Mercs and Juggs parse within 4-500 damage of each other, but Mercs have stronger defensives, better control, and more movement speed.

 

This is fine in PvE, but it doesn't work in PvP due to the difference in time on target. You can't have two classes with the same damage and similar defensives, but one gets to shoot you from 30 meters away and the other doesn't. Bioware has a few available options to try and correct this, but first and foremost they need to accept the fact that they created a class that has to stand in the middle of a ranged onslaught with few ways out. Juggernauts have to be equipped to weather the storm so they can actually participate in PvP, and ranged needs to be able to create distance.

 

DPS Juggs haven't been able to contribute in 4v4s for years now irrespective of player skill. The easiest way to balance this without breaking every other class in the game is to simply make Juggernauts tanky enough to survive the focus that they're inevitably going to receive.

 

My suggestions would be:

1) Add DR to Enraged Defense (For DPS spec only) and properly scale the heals received. Basically adding a buff similar to Power Yield but for Juggernauts.

 

2) Make Saber Reflect baseline with a passive "amp" that reduces the cooldown of Saber Reflect upon receiving incoming damage. Similar to Warmonger / what Mercs have for Energy Shield.

 

3)Increase the defensive capability of Saber Ward. This skill needs to be modernized.

 

Next step:

Pay very close attention to DPS Jugg ranked performance and adjust up or down accordingly.

Edited by Dyne-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

regardless what their motives might be-if they don't understand what balance is, they are not qualified for their job! even newer players you might want to stick around will not if get the clue how unbalanced this game is/will be. that is just bad buissnes, nothing else....another thing they need to understand is people are playing this game cause it is star wars, cause they want to play as star wars theme classes, when they wanted to play something more generic there are more than enough games out there who do a way better job....this is not merc wars-operatives of the old republic....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...