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PvP time to kill is way too high.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP time to kill is way too high.

easeyway's Avatar


easeyway
05.01.2021 , 03:34 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
some classes have very strong "stay in the fight" dcds (merc, mara, jugg).

Others have "escape and heal" cds: sorcs, sins, and ops have to use gcds or leave combat completely, but can also have excellent surviability.

PTs have pretty insane burst, and given that burst, they live an awfully long time.

this is all observations in regs since 5.x. I haven't been in rated for 6.x yet.

so what do I think? I think the first thing BW needs to do is rewrite mobility abilities which would mean rethinking a couple of classes completely. this has nothing to do with TTK directly. it's more a matter of the game engine (or server/client communication) not being capable of keeping up with the action on the map. I'm cool with op roll as a thing philosophically, but in practice - under the realistic pressures of server-client handshakes and game engine/gfx rendering - they break the game. the second an op rolls up a slight incline, he rubber bands, often he will stop jittering, come into focus, be shown running on a lower level for a few beats, then he'll be rolling away on the upper level. it's just flat broken. the game cannot handle it. you cannot kill or combat something like this, so it is related to TTK, but it's not a matter of healing or dcds. it's certain movement abilities are simply beyond this game's ability to process.

I would say anything beyond the sorc/sin "sprint" is asking too much of the game engine. so propulsion round, holotraverse, the sin equivalents...they all need to go, which would necessitate rethinking how BW addresses mobility, snare, and root abilities in pvp. even after that is done, some classes (thinking of ops) will need some sort of dcd b/c roll is so important to their defenses.

as far as dcds go, I think the game needs fewer reflects and immunities and more DR dcds like reactive shield or saber ward. I like the idea of each dps class having one dcd for white dmg or yellow dmg, but nothing that grants immunity to both and then add one (maybe two?) flat DRs. in general, I want to see DRs rather than immunities.

however, even if you move to DRs rather than immunities, you're still going to have a heck of a time balancing things because then everyone becomes something similar to a PT (maybe minus the burst but no dcd that can, on its own, force a focus swap). I don't have a problem with this. I think the immunities have gone overboard, but it does mean tweaking dps output for just about every class, either toning down or tuning up.

TL;DR: it's an incredibly complex endeavor, and I cannot begin to micro-manage it in my own head. but I would
  1. eliminate game-breaking movement abilites (replacing with dcds and adjusting snares and roots)
  2. eliminate full dmg immunity dcds and
  3. keep dcds focused on DR and make them no higher than 50% dmg reduction (ala mando shock absorbers "take 30% less dmg while stunned and 30% less dmg from aoe").

anyway, none of this is going to happen, and even if it did, it would take about 5 years to sort out (given the established track recorded for re-balancing), but that's how I'd like to see balance addressed from a macro perspective.
Pretty much agreed.

meddani's Avatar


meddani
05.01.2021 , 04:51 AM | #22
huh, didnt't expect my thread to get this much attention lol.
maybe BW will adress this change (not really probably)

mike_carton's Avatar


mike_carton
05.03.2021 , 06:30 AM | #23
Any changes should be limited to PvP. So, a Discipline and its abilities should be differently balanced for PvP and not be touched when the same character engages in PvE. That's the key to successful rebalancing.
A "Forum troll" posts outrageous messages to bait people into answering, to sow discord and to derail the discussion. Don't feed the troll, add to your Ignore List.

LordMakis's Avatar


LordMakis
05.04.2021 , 10:41 AM | #24
TTK is definitely too long, thanks to power creep (in terms of defenses) that is happening since years. It started with enraged defense rework back in the 2014, but snowballed with last two expansions. Some classes have so many defensive tools that player can feel overloaded with options. Sniper and mercenary are prime examples, mercenary especially. Class that is supposed to be played as ranged, can just sit in melee and pop cooldown after cooldown. Responsive Safeguards has to be most ridiculous cooldown ever introduced in this game (reflect, heal and usable while stunned on top of that).

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.04.2021 , 03:22 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by LordMakis View Post
TTK is definitely too long, thanks to power creep (in terms of defenses) that is happening since years. It started with enraged defense rework back in the 2014, but snowballed with last two expansions. Some classes have so many defensive tools that player can feel overloaded with options. Sniper and mercenary are prime examples, mercenary especially. Class that is supposed to be played as ranged, can just sit in melee and pop cooldown after cooldown. Responsive Safeguards has to be most ridiculous cooldown ever introduced in this game (reflect, heal and usable while stunned on top of that).
mmm...I would have agreed with you 2 or 3 years ago. now though, any player with half a brain knows how to nullify that entirely. reflect is useless if players don't ST dps into it. everyone knows to aoe when it comes out. w/o a dedicated healer, it's quite unimpressive (vs. escapes like combat stealth or pacify with the 75% tech debuff - also 6s). the same is true of the trauma stabilizers on reactive shield. don't ST dps into it? he doesn't get his 40% heal. the only ability you know you're going to get is kolto overload/adrenal surge. and that's a bit chincy too, b/c while 60% is great, it's not a medpac.

I see reactive shield and it just means DFA, toss a couple grenades. go back to regular rotation and melt the merc. in regs, with all merc dcds off CD, I'll generally last a good long time. I may even be able to cycle reactive shield a 2nd time. but that's a reflection of really bad opponents.

anyway, I'm in agreement that just about every class has too much tank/heal on their dps builds. the idea that many (not all) specs need trinity went out the window ages ago in a very haphazard way. from what I hear, however, yolos are more balanced now than they ever were in the past. dunno myself. I'm still not happy with my deeps in regs in this meta. like what should be kill shots aren't finishing ppl off. lol
Krack