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Deathmatching in Non-Deathmatching Regs


Aghasett

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I consider myself still fairly new to PVP so forgive me if this is well-treaded territory, but it seems I'm often one of the few who tries to, say, run the huttball, or secure a pylon, or guard a door or whatever, to win the game in a team effort, vs. a cacophony of point-scoring deathmatching.

 

Is it that the incentives are in the wrong places? Are losing teams afforded too many medals, xp, valor, etc, for all the damage and kills they rack up even tho they lost? Rewards should be tied mostly to victories, seems to me. B/c the way it is, it often feels like a stupid and pointless exercise. Sure, losing team players should get something, given that these are pugs, but here it's like summer camp where the losing team's trophies look almost identical to the winning team's.

 

Just a moment I ago was the lone and repeated scorer on my huttball team because I was literally able to walk over, pick it up, and walk to the opposing team's line with no resistance whatsoever, while everyone else was battling each other for battling sake, like two armies fighting - not to seize each other's land - but to see who kills the most just for the sake of it because the objective isn't worth fighting for in and of itself. Maybe if winning teams got potentially rare stuff like PVP tacticals n' such?

 

Back in the day Wow's PVP was a hulluva lot more coherent than this because it focused everyone into a group objective: victory = reward; whereas this very often feels like mercenary combat on an open battlefield, where we're all trying to pick each other's pockets for points.

 

Or am I just the minority who would rather have team PVP be built around objectives vs. deathmatching in general?

Edited by Aghasett
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It’s not a simple answer because there are many factors that have lead to this situation. But I can say it’s not because you get anything good for losing. I personally prefer to play properly (which means objectives and fighting) but we are a dying breed in swtor.

 

1. Theres been an on going decline in objective pvp to death match since Bioware first introduced Arenas.

2. Ranked players tell everyone that regs don’t matter and then proceed to use objective maps to practice for ranked

3. Bioware removed the incentive for people to learn to pvp as they lvl’d (meaning more people trying to learn against ranked death match players and learnt bad habits following their example)

4. Bioware put in a deserter debuff.

5. Bioware made it so losing doesn’t progress your daily/weekly missions

6. Rewards for winning aren’t tailored enough to gear properly by playing pvp (majority of pvpers have been forced to play pve content to gear up)

7. Rewards for winning aren’t exciting or meaningful

8. Player egos needing to ePeen on the scoreboard at the expense of winning

9. Desync problems in Huttball

10. A massive Speed Nerf if you carry the ball in Huttball.

11. Players can’t choose what maps they want to play and can’t leave maps they hate

12. Buggy Huttball maps

13. Bioware removed reg arena from the rotation until the queue numbers drop to a certain lvl.

 

All of those things combined have contributed in some way to the continuing decline of objective pvp. It’s now at the point that new players see that hardly anyone tries to play the objectives and think that’s how pvp is supposed to be played in swtor.

 

This has had a snowball affect and now the majority of reg pvpers in objective pvp death match. They have zero skills when it comes to strategy or tactical game play. And a couple of good objective players or premade can carve through them like butter.

 

Most reg noobs run in death packs to gank single players and fight no where near the objectives. If you have 3 competent objective players on your team, you can usually win by avoiding the gank pack.

 

Sadly it’s rare these days to get one objective player on the team that is also good at combat. So even if you’re the best combat/objective player in the game, it’s impossible to carry a whole team who doesn’t help you unless the other team is even worse than yours and ignores all objectives and you all match.

 

And let’s not forget the Huttball speed Nerf. I use to be able to carry a whole team in Huttball even if my team didn’t try because I could get the ball and make it to the line. But since the speed Nerf, it’s nearly impossible to get to the line without blowing up unless you are on an operative. That is especially true in Quesh Ball (you can still score in OG HB and to a lesser extent in Vandin if you are left alone).

 

All of those things have led to many good players leaving the game. So there are less good players to pass on knowledge on how to play objective pvp properly and be good at it.

 

At the end of the day, Bioware have made this happen. They’ve done Jack squat to address the issue in 7-8 years since arena was first introduced. So it’s snowballed to where it is now. And Bioware themselves have continuously contributed to making it worse with their dumb development choices and not listening to player feedback.

 

Part of the problem is they don’t care about regs or objective pvp. Ranked is all Bioware care about and they don’t care about the pvp eco system. They have tunnel vision and think ranked is all that matters to pvp and so they’ve let the rest of the pvp eco system crumble through neglect and mismanagement.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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It’s not a simple answer because there are many factors that have lead to this situation. But I can say it’s not because you get anything good for losing. I personally prefer to play properly (which means objectives and fighting) but we are a dying breed in swtor.

 

1. Theres been an on going decline in objective pvp to death match since Bioware first introduced Arenas.

2. Ranked players tell everyone that regs don’t matter and then proceed to use objective maps to practice for ranked

3. Bioware removed the incentive for people to learn to pvp as they lvl’d (meaning more people trying to learn against ranked death match players and learnt bad habits following their example)

4. Bioware put in a deserter debuff.

5. Bioware made it so losing doesn’t progress your daily/weekly missions

6. Rewards for winning aren’t tailored enough to gear properly by playing pvp (majority of pvpers have been forced to play pve content to gear up)

7. Rewards for winning aren’t exciting or meaningful

8. Player egos needing to ePeen on the scoreboard at the expense of winning

9. Desync problems in Huttball

10. A massive Speed Nerf if you carry the ball in Huttball.

11. Players can’t choose what maps they want to play and can’t leave maps they hate

12. Buggy Huttball maps

13. Bioware removed reg arena from the rotation until the queue numbers drop to a certain lvl.

 

All of those things combined have contributed in some way to the continuing decline of objective pvp. It’s now at the point that new players see that hardly anyone tries to play the objectives and think that’s how pvp is supposed to be played in swtor.

 

This has had a snowball affect and now the majority of reg pvpers in objective pvp death match. They have zero skills when it comes to strategy or tactical game play. And a couple of good objective players or premade can carve through them like butter.

 

Most reg noobs run in death packs to gank single players and fight no where near the objectives. If you have 3 competent objective players on your team, you can usually win by avoiding the gank pack.

 

Sadly it’s rare these days to get one objective player on the team that is also good at combat. So even if you’re the best combat/objective player in the game, it’s impossible to carry a whole team who doesn’t help you unless the other team is even worse than yours and ignores all objectives and you all match.

 

And let’s not forget the Huttball speed Nerf. I use to be able to carry a whole team in Huttball even if my team didn’t try because I could get the ball and make it to the line. But since the speed Nerf, it’s nearly impossible to get to the line without blowing up unless you are on an operative. That is especially true in Quesh Ball (you can still score in OG HB and to a lesser extent in Vandin if you are left alone).

 

All of those things have led to many good players leaving the game. So there are less good players to pass on knowledge on how to play objective pvp properly and be good at it.

 

At the end of the day, Bioware have made this happen. They’ve done Jack squat to address the issue in 7-8 years since arena was first introduced. So it’s snowballed to where it is now. And Bioware themselves have continuously contributed to making it worse with their dumb development choices and not listening to player feedback.

 

Part of the problem is they don’t care about regs or objective pvp. Ranked is all Bioware care about and they don’t care about the pvp eco system. They have tunnel vision and think ranked is all that matters to pvp and so they’ve let the rest of the pvp eco system crumble through neglect and mismanagement.

 

You would think that if Bioware wanted people to play OBJ's, they'd have come up with a reward system based on individual performance by now. If they can track medals, they can grant rewards based on them (Though the system probably reworking to allow healers more opportunities to climb the leaderboard, and only validate fighting near nodes, not in BFE).

 

All that the win-only missions have achieved is make people apathetic towards disadvantageous matches. The other day I was in a Yavin Ruins where the enemy team began turtling their one node once the score reached 400-290. It's almost like putting mental energy into a potentially fruitless endeavor isn't worth it for most people.

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You would think that if Bioware wanted people to play OBJ's, they'd have come up with a reward system based on individual performance by now. If they can track medals, they can grant rewards based on them (Though the system probably reworking to allow healers more opportunities to climb the leaderboard, and only validate fighting near nodes, not in BFE).

 

All that the win-only missions have achieved is make people apathetic towards disadvantageous matches. The other day I was in a Yavin Ruins where the enemy team began turtling their one node once the score reached 400-290. It's almost like putting mental energy into a potentially fruitless endeavor isn't worth it for most people.

 

I’ve literally been advocating for years that they rework the medal system to be specific for individual map types and team contribution and then base some of the rewards on how many medals you get as well as if you win or lose.

 

Then theoretically, a player on the losing team who got lots of medals for playing to win and not giving up could get more rewards than someone on the winning team who got carried or didn’t contribute as much to their teams win.

 

Have two reward structures.

1. Based on winning

2. Based on how many medals (and really scale up the rewards based on how many medals. So if you got 20 medals it would be significantly better than getting 10 medals and better than the win reward).

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Just had the most hilariously stupid experience, and precisely why I started this thread. Satele Shan, Regs, Pylons, facing a premade, and they could care two effen wits about the pylons, orbs or any objective. They move as one roving blobby death organism and gank shred my team at every turn. Yet, we win decisively because, again, they weren't even trying. Just a stupid and pointless exercise. It's not always like this, obv, but waaayy too often for my enjoyment. Edited by Aghasett
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Trixxie hit most if the points, but she left out the most obvious one. People have been playing the same Huttball map for a decade. After awhile they just get bored with that and they'd rather fight. Different strokes.
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I wonder if its possible to deathmatch and win objs. I am honestly getting sick of getting that L screen in regs because I am on the team that is deathmatching. You know what is more fun then deathmatching in regs? DM in ranked but noone wants to queue. Edited by juanmiranda
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Another report from the bottom of PVP: I'm in voidstar, attacking first - my team is all deathmatching, of course - and I'm the only one repeatedly trying for the doors, no one else is trying. After a few deaths, I'm able to sneak in, trigger the first door, as well as the following panel for the bridge, and the second door, with absolutely no other players around me from either team because they're all still in the first room deathmatching, either unaware or unconcerned that I've proceeded such a distance through the course. But time runs out before I can complete it.

 

Comes time to defend, I plead, plead, plead with my team to keep the fight on top of the doors and not to go off in the ozarks, and I get a few " ^^^ this" in agreement. But sure enough, right away, I'm the only one anywhere close to the doors and the opposing team immediately blows through to victory.

 

This isn't fun. If it were the exception and not the rule I wouldn't be posting about it. But it is, in fact, the norm, and getting in on a good team is rare.

 

So Bioware, please, the solution is very simple: Make better PVP matches. New, better designed PVP matches, that incentivize actual teamwork and not this boring, pointless slog. There's so much potential here but currently it all falls short. And I know it falls short b/c I keep seeing the same players over and over and over. There aren't that many of us, and it's not appearing to bring in many new players.

Edited by Aghasett
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Another report from the bottom of PVP: I'm in voidstar, attacking first - my team is all deathmatching, of course - and I'm the only one repeatedly trying for the doors, no one else is trying. After a few deaths, I'm able to sneak in, trigger the first door, as well as the following panel for the bridge, and the second door, with absolutely no other players around me from either team because they're all still in the first room deathmatching, either unaware or unconcerned that I've proceeded such a distance through the course. But time runs out before I can complete it.

 

Comes time to defend, I plead, plead, plead with my team to keep the fight on top of the doors and not to go off in the ozarks, and I get a few " ^^^ this" in agreement. But sure enough, right away, I'm the only one anywhere close to the doors and the opposing team immediately blows through to victory.

 

This isn't fun. If it were the exception and not the rule I wouldn't be posting about it. But it is, in fact, the norm, and getting in on a good team is rare.

 

So Bioware, please, the solution is very simple: Make better PVP matches. New, better designed PVP matches, that incentivize actual teamwork and not this boring, pointless slog. There's so much potential here but currently it all falls short. And I know it falls short b/c I keep seeing the same players over and over and over. There aren't that many of us, and it's not appearing to bring in many new players.

 

you should probably learn to "read the room" a bit. if everyone want to DM, then just DM. if they're willing to play the map, then play the map. admittedly, this is more the rule of thumb for HB. but you're just wasting (mental) energy getting frustrated when teammates ignore the win conditions. and players who throw a fit in OPS chat about it are far more pathetic than the players who DM.

 

I've found it more fun just to troll those players. like when a dude loses a node and then whines about how he got no help and now we're gonna lose, etc., I'll ask him why he didn't call. then he'll lose his **** and complain that he did call but no one came. and I'll just ask again, "ok. but why didn't you call? try calling next time." seeing that guy implode in OPS chat arguing with me that he did call is more entertaining that winning the match or DMing.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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you should probably learn to "read the room" a bit.

 

Again, if it were just on the occasion, or even the minority of matches, it wouldn't be an issue. The whole point of me starting this thread, as I've just said in my prior post, is that it appears to me to be the norm. Not to mention, I'm "reading the room" perfectly. I don't enjoy what I'm reading, is the point, and I know I'm not the only one.

Edited by Aghasett
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Again, if it were just on the occasion, or even the minority of matches, it wouldn't be an issue. The whole point of me starting this thread, as I've just said in my prior post, is that it appears to me to be the norm. Not to mention, I'm "reading the room" perfectly. I don't enjoy what I'm reading, is the point, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

and I'm telling you that getting heated or upset about it, or letting it frustrate you, isn't going to change anything. BW makes incredibly dumb decisions. they've fostered this environment and then doubled down on it. so take it for what it is or don't.

 

all of these "fix the medals system" approaches are not going to work. ppl who don't care about objectives...don't care about objectives. you're not going to incentivize them to by restructuring medals. you can't make ppl play the maps properly. but you can hit them with a deserter debuff if they leave. lmao

Edited by CheesyEZ
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1. Theres been an on going decline in objective pvp to death match since Bioware first introduced Arenas.

2. Ranked players tell everyone that regs don’t matter and then proceed to use objective maps to practice for ranked

3. Bioware removed the incentive for people to learn to pvp as they lvl’d (meaning more people trying to learn against ranked death match players and learnt bad habits following their example)

5. Bioware made it so losing doesn’t progress your daily/weekly missions

7. Rewards for winning aren’t exciting or meaningful

8. Player egos needing to ePeen on the scoreboard at the expense of winning

9. Desync problems in Huttball

10. A massive Speed Nerf if you carry the ball in Huttball.

11. Players can’t choose what maps they want to play and can’t leave maps they hate

 

 

All of those things combined have contributed in some way to the continuing decline of objective pvp. It’s now at the point that new players see that hardly anyone tries to play the objectives and think that’s how pvp is supposed to be played in swtor.

 

This has had a snowball affect and now the majority of reg pvpers in objective pvp death match. They have zero skills when it comes to strategy or tactical game play. And a couple of good objective players or premade can carve through them like butter.

 

Most reg noobs run in death packs to gank single players and fight no where near the objectives. If you have 3 competent objective players on your team, you can usually win by avoiding the gank pack.

 

Sadly it’s rare these days to get one objective player on the team that is also good at combat. So even if you’re the best combat/objective player in the game, it’s impossible to carry a whole team who doesn’t help you unless the other team is even worse than yours and ignores all objectives and you all match.

 

And let’s not forget the Huttball speed Nerf. I use to be able to carry a whole team in Huttball even if my team didn’t try because I could get the ball and make it to the line. But since the speed Nerf, it’s nearly impossible to get to the line without blowing up unless you are on an operative. That is especially true in Quesh Ball (you can still score in OG HB and to a lesser extent in Vandin if you are left alone).

 

All of those things have led to many good players leaving the game. So there are less good players to pass on knowledge on how to play objective pvp properly and be good at it. .

 

I'm going to disagree with 99 percent of this. Games are won by pressure and map control. If a dps is pulling 3 players to deal with him and putting that much pressure on a team it's usually a win. I've played ranked 8s having bad dps is the fastest way to loose. Dps creates number advantages then tanks and heals exploit that advantage.

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I'm going to disagree with 99 percent of this. Games are won by pressure and map control. If a dps is pulling 3 players to deal with him and putting that much pressure on a team it's usually a win. I've played ranked 8s having bad dps is the fastest way to loose. Dps creates number advantages then tanks and heals exploit that advantage.

 

DPS can sometimes help win regs if its done tactically but lets not pretend that number hunters are doing anything tactical. They're there for their fluff numbers and they'll happily chase easy kills into the middle of nowhere regardless of the objective.

 

The obj rewards systems are pretty pointless as well. I can open every door in voidstar and interrupt the opposing team capping a dozen times and ill come lower in obj and medals than the sin who sat in stealth next to the door doing nothing for the entire match.

 

Personally I'd like a proper pvp ignore for regs. Let the fluffers and the trolls do their thing and I'll do mine. It may mean fewer pops for me but I'll actually enjoy the games and seasons means I can occupy myself during q time.

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and I'm telling you that getting heated or upset about it, or letting it frustrate you, isn't going to change anything. BW makes incredibly dumb decisions. they've fostered this environment and then doubled down on it. so take it for what it is or don't.

 

all of these "fix the medals system" approaches are not going to work. ppl who don't care about objectives...don't care about objectives. you're not going to incentivize them to by restructuring medals. you can't make ppl play the maps properly. but you can hit them with a deserter debuff if they leave. lmao

 

Don't be hyperbolic. I'm neither heated nor upset.

 

The whole point of starting threads like this is to see what the general consensus is amongst the players. But if the majority feel as you do, that players have no impact on dev, then so it is.

 

But the irony isn't lost on me that the very thing I have a gripe about in PVP is the same attitude reflected in your reply.

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Don't be hyperbolic. I'm neither heated nor upset.

 

The whole point of starting threads like this is to see what the general consensus is amongst the players. But if the majority feel as you do, that players have no impact on dev, then so it is.

 

But the irony isn't lost on me that the very thing I have a gripe about in PVP is the same attitude reflected in your reply.

 

and you're not frustrated. you're just..."curious." ok. uh huh. right.

 

the only thing in my reply is experience and realism. and people running to the forums complaining about games not being played properly has led to deserter debuffs which...

  1. trap players who want to play objectives into DMs and being stuck on teams who ignore you and the objectives.
  2. it's why players cannot leave when they see players on their team who won't play so they can get out of sync with them in the queue.
  3. it's why players cannot leave when they see they've landed in the 5th VS in 6 pops or any quesh or vandin.
  4. it's why dead'of'wyllet'weights give up 60s into the match and just afk stealthed in a corner and/or announce that they aren't playing and everyone needs to quit

 

I see you're new to pvp so maybe you haven't witnessed this. maybe you just don't understand how exceedingly bad BW is at this. they created a ranked system in which everyone was locked on the same server and same faction for a solo queue, but their ratings were judged not against their own faction and server, but against both factions and all servers. any student in 9th grade algebra could tell you that's a broken af way to gauge "rating" in a solo queue. but that's how exceedingly bad BW is at this stuff. just really incredibly bad.

 

mercs had horrible tools for escape or shedding focus or just lacking a solid DCD, so BW gives them electro net, the most powerful offensive tool in the game to date. lmao

 

sorcs were getting shredded and cleaved by the (silly meta) of warrior smash specs, so they gave them stun bubble which they could then apply to every single player on their team and furthermore, could be detonated manually whenever a player wanted to. part of this stupidity is still in the game, preventing a stealth class from even opening on them. and grinding all WZs to a halt b/c no melee could do anything while being constantly frozen b/c someone 10-15' away smashed someone. dumb dumb dumb "fixes" to problems. that's what you get. please. stop asking BW to "fix" things.

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The long story short on this is low population. DMers are an issue because the queue is tiny, forcing folks to play the same premade over and over again. Yes, sometimes you get ranked players doing it because ranked isn't popping, but - again - it's a population issue.

 

If it really frustrates you, the best thing to do is form your own objective-oriented premade and fight back on a more even footing. Or just give in to the dark side and go for some of the PVP achievements, i.e., deathmatch.

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I'm going to disagree with 99 percent of this. Games are won by pressure and map control. If a dps is pulling 3 players to deal with him and putting that much pressure on a team it's usually a win. I've played ranked 8s having bad dps is the fastest way to loose. Dps creates number advantages then tanks and heals exploit that advantage.

 

You totally misinterpreted my whole post. I wasn’t talking about dps or combat. I was pointing out why whole teams death match and don’t play to win. That is totally different to what you are insinuating. Please reread what I wrote, I think you may have replied to the wrong post.

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  • 3 weeks later...
It’s not a simple answer because there are many factors that have lead to this situation. But I can say it’s not because you get anything good for losing. I personally prefer to play properly (which means objectives and fighting) but we are a dying breed in swtor.

 

1. Theres been an on going decline in objective pvp to death match since Bioware first introduced Arenas.

2. Ranked players tell everyone that regs don’t matter and then proceed to use objective maps to practice for ranked

3. Bioware removed the incentive for people to learn to pvp as they lvl’d (meaning more people trying to learn against ranked death match players and learnt bad habits following their example)

4. Bioware put in a deserter debuff.

5. Bioware made it so losing doesn’t progress your daily/weekly missions

6. Rewards for winning aren’t tailored enough to gear properly by playing pvp (majority of pvpers have been forced to play pve content to gear up)

7. Rewards for winning aren’t exciting or meaningful

8. Player egos needing to ePeen on the scoreboard at the expense of winning

9. Desync problems in Huttball

10. A massive Speed Nerf if you carry the ball in Huttball.

11. Players can’t choose what maps they want to play and can’t leave maps they hate

12. Buggy Huttball maps

13. Bioware removed reg arena from the rotation until the queue numbers drop to a certain lvl.

 

All of those things combined have contributed in some way to the continuing decline of objective pvp. It’s now at the point that new players see that hardly anyone tries to play the objectives and think that’s how pvp is supposed to be played in swtor.

 

This has had a snowball affect and now the majority of reg pvpers in objective pvp death match. They have zero skills when it comes to strategy or tactical game play. And a couple of good objective players or premade can carve through them like butter.

 

Most reg noobs run in death packs to gank single players and fight no where near the objectives. If you have 3 competent objective players on your team, you can usually win by avoiding the gank pack.

 

Sadly it’s rare these days to get one objective player on the team that is also good at combat. So even if you’re the best combat/objective player in the game, it’s impossible to carry a whole team who doesn’t help you unless the other team is even worse than yours and ignores all objectives and you all match.

 

And let’s not forget the Huttball speed Nerf. I use to be able to carry a whole team in Huttball even if my team didn’t try because I could get the ball and make it to the line. But since the speed Nerf, it’s nearly impossible to get to the line without blowing up unless you are on an operative. That is especially true in Quesh Ball (you can still score in OG HB and to a lesser extent in Vandin if you are left alone).

 

All of those things have led to many good players leaving the game. So there are less good players to pass on knowledge on how to play objective pvp properly and be good at it.

 

At the end of the day, Bioware have made this happen. They’ve done Jack squat to address the issue in 7-8 years since arena was first introduced. So it’s snowballed to where it is now. And Bioware themselves have continuously contributed to making it worse with their dumb development choices and not listening to player feedback.

 

Part of the problem is they don’t care about regs or objective pvp. Ranked is all Bioware care about and they don’t care about the pvp eco system. They have tunnel vision and think ranked is all that matters to pvp and so they’ve let the rest of the pvp eco system crumble through neglect and mismanagement.

 

Hutball is garder to grasp for newer players, thats why they focus on whats eaiser to do - kill others around you.

 

You are mostly wrong about other modes - lets take pylons (hypergates). You know, that you get points for killing enemy player and also for getting orbs from middle? Taking and holding pylon isnt enough to win. ALSO have in mind, that if both teams have dedicated tanks and healers they will meet somewhere in force, like 5 vs 5 and it will be prolonged fight, because of tank and healer..And a team just cant get away from it - if you will run, enemy will strike you down and get points. Organized retreats are for premades alone..

 

Well, you can look at it any way you want, but to win you will have to kill - near objectives, in middle, near spawn point. If you wount kill, enemy will kill you - wardozones are too small for tactical maneuvers, someone will spot you and will come for your head soon. Apart from hutball and some random encounters with pro operatives who can stall node cap for hours or sleep/cap, sheer brutal force wins. You kill your enemies around and focus on obejectives. And if there are 2 healers on either side...

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Hutball is garder to grasp for newer players, thats why they focus on whats eaiser to do - kill others around you.
in my experience, it's the players with greater skill/command over their classes in pvp who DM at "mid" on all maps.

 

You are mostly wrong about other modes - lets take pylons (hypergates). You know, that you get points for killing enemy player and also for getting orbs from middle? Taking and holding pylon isnt enough to win. ALSO have in mind, that if both teams have dedicated tanks and healers they will meet somewhere in force, like 5 vs 5 and it will be prolonged fight, because of tank and healer..And a team just cant get away from it - if you will run, enemy will strike you down and get points. Organized retreats are for premades alone..

 

Well, you can look at it any way you want, but to win you will have to kill - near objectives, in middle, near spawn point. If you wount kill, enemy will kill you - wardozones are too small for tactical maneuvers, someone will spot you and will come for your head soon. Apart from hutball and some random encounters with pro operatives who can stall node cap for hours or sleep/cap, sheer brutal force wins. You kill your enemies around and focus on obejectives. And if there are 2 healers on either side...

collecting orbs to win is a red herring. pylons and area control is what wins AHG.

 

look at it this way, there are only 4 orbs at a time, and they realistically spawn twice per round. (theoretically more assuming you maximize the pick-up and drop-off, but that assumes you have free reign to run back and forth for the duration of the round). you can kill enemies a nearly infinite amount of times (PTs and maras average ~3 deaths per round lul). just b/c an orb is worth 2x as much as a kill does not mean it's worth ignoring kills to gather orbs. doing so leaves your team shorthanded and will lead to more deaths on your team.

 

furthermore, in order to gather orbs at mid, the area has to either be empty or controlled by your team. if the area is controlled by your team, then collecting orbs is meaningless because your team is already winning via kills. if the area is empty, then you are needed elsewhere, either to hold your pylon, prevent the other team from, capping, or b/c your team is so dominant that you'll win on kills anyway and likely cap both pylons.

 

now for the most important part of AHG: pylons. the way you actually win AHG is via pylons. both orbs and kills are utterly meaningless next to pylons. theoretically, every team should split their ops every round and run to each pylon. you only need to cap one, so long as you can prevent the other team from capping. this is how the game was actually played by teams of competent players when AHG was part of the ranked rotation. nobody went into mid, either to farm kills or to gather orbs. both were completely meaningless.

 

the fact of the matter is that regs have degenerated so much that vast swathes of good players just don't even bother anymore. they just kill stuff. holding objectives is relatively meaningless to them when objectives are so easy to cheese on maps that just don't work well with current class abilities (speed and survival dcds/escapes make capping and stalling too easy for the right specs, and just one skilled player can make 5 opponents look like utter fools).

 

TL;DR:

it's only through ignorance and indifference that orbs play any role whatsoever in AHG.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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in my experience, it's the players with greater skill/command over their classes in pvp who DM at "mid" on all maps.

 

 

collecting orbs to win is a red herring. pylons and area control is what wins AHG.

 

look at it this way, there are only 4 orbs at a time, and they realistically spawn twice per round. (theoretically more assuming you maximize the pick-up and drop-off, but that assumes you have free reign to run back and forth for the duration of the round). you can kill enemies a nearly infinite amount of times (PTs and maras average ~3 deaths per round lul). just b/c an orb is worth 2x as much as a kill does not mean it's worth ignoring kills to gather orbs. doing so leaves your team shorthanded and will lead to more deaths on your team.

 

furthermore, in order to gather orbs at mid, the area has to either be empty or controlled by your team. if the area is controlled by your team, then collecting orbs is meaningless because your team is already winning via kills. if the area is empty, then you are needed elsewhere, either to hold your pylon, prevent the other team from, capping, or b/c your team is so dominant that you'll win on kills anyway and likely cap both pylons.

 

now for the most important part of AHG: pylons. the way you actually win AHG is via pylons. both orbs and kills are utterly meaningless next to pylons. theoretically, every team should split their ops every round and run to each pylon. you only need to cap one, so long as you can prevent the other team from capping. this is how the game was actually played by teams of competent players when AHG was part of the ranked rotation. nobody went into mid, either to farm kills or to gather orbs. both were completely meaningless.

 

the fact of the matter is that regs have degenerated so much that vast swathes of good players just don't even bother anymore. they just kill stuff. holding objectives is relatively meaningless to them when objectives are so easy to cheese on maps that just don't work well with current class abilities (speed and survival dcds/escapes make capping and stalling too easy for the right specs, and just one skilled player can make 5 opponents look like utter fools).

 

TL;DR:

it's only through ignorance and indifference that orbs play any role whatsoever in AHG.

 

Exactly this ^^

 

Thank you Cheese, it means I don’t need to try and explain it to that previous poster.

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Lot of people want to just enter PVP and make kills. But they are too much afraid of joining ranked (solo or team) or they tried and got stomped.

 

That's why i really hope Ranked Arenas in the future will be erased and make all the unranked league ranked: 8vs8, 4vs4 all in the same map cycling, all in the same queue and with ELO.

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