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Please make Master Mode Flashpoints harder or add Nightmare Flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Please make Master Mode Flashpoints harder or add Nightmare Flashpoints

AUTChris's Avatar


AUTChris
05.31.2020 , 10:46 AM | #1
MM FPs are a joke currently, even the ones that were a little bit difficult at Lvl 70 are now complete faceroll

Either remove stacks in Master mode or add a T4 without stacks. Also unnerf nerfed mechanics (like the boss in Lost Island now punts much slower)

The highest tier in group content shouldn't be "accessible", it shouldn't be easily doable for everybody. That's what the lower tiers are there for. Highest tier should be hard even for very good players. Unfortunately outside of NiM operations there's no hard content in the game.

Nerfing the flashpoints into the ground was completely unnecessary. Please give us challenging Flashpoints again, I almost fell asleep in Umbara MM last week

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
05.31.2020 , 08:56 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by AUTChris View Post
MM FPs are a joke currently, even the ones that were a little bit difficult at Lvl 70 are now complete faceroll

Either remove stacks in Master mode or add a T4 without stacks. Also unnerf nerfed mechanics (like the boss in Lost Island now punts much slower)

The highest tier in group content shouldn't be "accessible", it shouldn't be easily doable for everybody. That's what the lower tiers are there for. Highest tier should be hard even for very good players. Unfortunately outside of NiM operations there's no hard content in the game.

Nerfing the flashpoints into the ground was completely unnecessary. Please give us challenging Flashpoints again, I almost fell asleep in Umbara MM last week
The highest Group content isn't FP's. If you want the Highest group content you need to do Master Mode Operations. FP's aren't meant to be anywhere near as difficult as Master Mode Operations.

AUTChris's Avatar


AUTChris
06.01.2020 , 01:04 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
The highest Group content isn't FP's. If you want the Highest group content you need to do Master Mode Operations. FP's aren't meant to be anywhere near as difficult as Master Mode Operations.
It should be quite obvious that by "highest" I meant the highest difficulty tier (as in master mode). Of course there is master mode FPs. Casuals shouldn't feel entitled to breeze through the highest difficulty tier, whether that's solo content, 4man content or 8man content.

I'm well aware that solo content can't be as difficult as 4man and 4man can't be as difficult as 8man, but currently anything outside of OPs is just too easy even in the highest tier. And who decided that "FPs aren't meant to be difficult"? That's just your opinion, man, and I fully disagree with it. While they were never as difficult as MM Ops they were more difficult than the faceroll they are currently.

MM FPs are just horribly underscaled as they are. The highest difficulty tier of any type of content (whether solo, 4man, 8man) shouldn't be braindead, but it is

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Mubrak
06.01.2020 , 01:53 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AUTChris View Post
It should be quite obvious that by "highest" I meant the highest difficulty tier (as in master mode). Of course there is master mode FPs. Casuals shouldn't feel entitled to breeze through the highest difficulty tier, whether that's solo content, 4man content or 8man content.
If you have outgrown the hardest dificulty tier, why ask the devs to make everything harder instead of moving on? At one point, either it will be too hard for you as well, or you'll find nobody to do them with.

NiM Flashpoints would be a different matter, of course, but the Lost Island experiment has more or less failed back in 2012 - how many players are going to do NiM FPs, how many are capable of doing them, and when the rewards are so great that everyone wants to try, how often will you actually get a group able to finish them?

Frankly, flashpoints are for casuals, because there is little effort involved in doing them. All that is required of you is being able to play your class/role effectively. Once you mastered that and feel bored carrying 3 other players, either start soloing MM FPs, or move on to content where you need to play with your group rather than next to them.
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Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
06.01.2020 , 06:24 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AUTChris View Post
It should be quite obvious that by "highest" I meant the highest difficulty tier (as in master mode). Of course there is master mode FPs. Casuals shouldn't feel entitled to breeze through the highest difficulty tier, whether that's solo content, 4man content or 8man content.

I'm well aware that solo content can't be as difficult as 4man and 4man can't be as difficult as 8man, but currently anything outside of OPs is just too easy even in the highest tier. And who decided that "FPs aren't meant to be difficult"? That's just your opinion, man, and I fully disagree with it. While they were never as difficult as MM Ops they were more difficult than the faceroll they are currently.

MM FPs are just horribly underscaled as they are. The highest difficulty tier of any type of content (whether solo, 4man, 8man) shouldn't be braindead, but it is
You have to understand originally Hardmode FP's (or Master mode now) were created and meant to help gear people up for doing Operations when the game launched. They would give you the gear and teach you how to do mechanics to hopefully prepare you for knowing your class so you could be ready to do Story mode or Hard Mode Operations. They were meant for everyone to be able to do them, not only the Elite 1% of the player's that do NiM Operations. This has never changed over the years to be honest, so if your expecting the current Master Mode FP's to be as difficult as MM Ops then you need to change how your thinking about them.

Now if your asking for a new higher Level of FP difficulty, just for those that want really hard 4 man group content, BW has already tried that multiple times. Each time they introduced Master Mode FP's that were considerably harder then others people just left them anyway so making the content not worth the devs time to create.

This is why I suggested you try your hand at NiM Ops if your not doing them already if your looking for the highest Tier of Group Content. That is where it is meant to be in this game.

Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
06.01.2020 , 07:16 AM | #6
"master mode flashpoints are CHALLENGING, group focused missions that will test your mettle in combat as well as your ability to coordinate with a team of four players"

you guys saying 1 player should be able to carry 3 in mm fps are probarbly the guys who leave them if they require more than autohits.

fact is mm fps are far from challenging... you dont even need tanks.. 1 dps can meet the "dps checks"...
Atm they feel more like h2's and there is literally nothing challenging about them.
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Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
06.01.2020 , 08:16 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
"master mode flashpoints are CHALLENGING, group focused missions that will test your mettle in combat as well as your ability to coordinate with a team of four players"

you guys saying 1 player should be able to carry 3 in mm fps are probarbly the guys who leave them if they require more than autohits.

fact is mm fps are far from challenging... you dont even need tanks.. 1 dps can meet the "dps checks"...
Atm they feel more like h2's and there is literally nothing challenging about them.
but the word Challenging is subjective. If your a NiM raider and run with NiM raiders then MM FP's will and should be a snooze fest. If your the type of player that solo queu's and is a story player then MM FP's will be challenging. So the debate here is what type of player is the intended target. From launch it was clear they were meant for training people to do SM/HM Ops since they dropped Tionese gear on every boss except Columi on the last boss (Columi was the Story mode Operation gear). It taught people how to be ready for Raids. So are they more to the point of a training tool to teach people to follow mechanics for Ops (so for casual players) or are they supposed to be for the 1% NiM raiders? if they are for the NiM raiders then that will mean less people do them I'm sure.

I remember when Kaon Under Siege and Lost island came out. I remember how many times I had to wait for replacements because people didn't want to run them because they were more difficult then any other FP.

While I haven't tried to actually solo or 2 man any Master Mode FP's myself other then Hammer station which is usually easier then the others. I find it hard to believe the rest of them are that easy because I constantly seeing people complain about the Balance issues between HS, and other FP's which are claimed to be to difficult. (which includes Umbara, Chiss, and Nathema from what I've read on these very Forums).

AUTChris's Avatar


AUTChris
06.01.2020 , 03:29 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
but the word Challenging is subjective. If your a NiM raider and run with NiM raiders then MM FP's will and should be a snooze fest.
No they should not. You shouldn't have to assemble 8 people just to not fall asleep in the game. Again, there's difficulty tiers for a reason and lower tiers are for casuals. It's just the expectation to 100% the game without learning the necessary skills that deprives better players of truely fun and challenging content

I don't even want special loot gated behind the highest difficulty. Casuals can get best in slot gear from farming Vet Hammer Station, I don't mind. I just want to be able to play challenging content outside of our raid nights.

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Townowi
06.01.2020 , 08:18 PM | #9
Then again, for every player that can faceroll 5.0-era FPs in MM (they were unevenly nerfed in 6.0, but I still cleared Umbara and Nathema MM at their 5.0 difficulties with their bonus bosses, none of these clears were faceroll to me back then), there are several players who can only run Hammer and/or Red Reaper at that level. This also means there isn't a whole lot of players that can faceroll Umbara/Nathema MM, and a few extra that can clear these but for whom they pose some level of challenge. Now, to whom do 5.0-era FPs and Meridian pose a challenge?

However, I still feel like older MMs (released under 1.0 outside of Kaon/LI) should get difficulty buffs to bring them to the level of 3.0-era FPs, or at least of Kaon and 2.0-era FPs, if only under the form of a tighter DPS or healing check. Blood Hunt may have been nerfed by typo, though.

I may have two-manned False Emp in MM, or tanked Ilum MM with the bonus boss on a DPS devoid of taunts, but these aren't experiences I would want to repeat, since they are frustrating more than they are challenging. I knew that MM FP difficulty correlated to release date almost perfectly.
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xSilverriderx
06.02.2020 , 08:13 AM | #10
They could just add a way to manually remove stacks from your character, this way everyone (not just every group, every single player) would be able to decide whether or not they want more of a challenge. There's player-activated scaling already in the game, at the training dummys, so should be possible to implement, e.g., an item that removes any stacks from your character for as long as you are in that phase/are logged in/whatever else makes sense.

/sign for reverting mechanic nerfs