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A DPS shouldn't help with cleansing?


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I joined a NiM Nefra group and was the only DPS with a cleanse. The healers were having a hard time keeping up with all the cleanses so I volunteered to hit one of the other DPS with mine after it came off cooldown. I've been asked to do this in NiM Nefra before so figured it was no big deal but it seems I was wrong?

 

Although the healers thanked me, one of the tanks flat out told me not to cleanse any of the DPS and that the healers needed to learn their classes better. I said that's fine but I just want to get the boss done and don't mind throwing an extra cleanse (it's not like Nefra has a tight enrage window). The tank just wouldn't have it. After going back and forth for a few minutes on it the tank typed L2P and then rage quit.

 

Is it really that bad to throw an extra cleanse here and there to help the group out?

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It's unfortunate that people run into such [redacted] people every so often. It tends to put people off even trying to do OPs. It's also interesting how often it's the tank that is the AH*.

 

But no, you are not at fault for trying to assist the group in completing the boss. 🙄

 

* if I had a dollar for every tank that expects someone to heal them in a Vet FP, I'd be rich. 😅

Edited by JediQuaker
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From a healing perspective: unless everyone else in the group is a PT or Sniper, you probably don't need to cleanse your fellow dps. Yourself? Yes. Other dps? Eh. If the healers ask for assistance, you can give it, but it really shouldn't be an issue. Worst case scenario, it's just kind of unnecessary. I have found that a lot of players don't seem to know they have a cleanse, but that's on them. I expect people to know their class.

 

That said, a dps offering to assist with cleanses to help the group is definitely not worth a rage-quit. :rolleyes:

 

My personal perspective on the so-called 'non-cleansing' classes when I'm healing...

  • PT/Vanguard? You've got nothing, to my knowledge. I will always cleanse you.
  • Sniper/Slinger? Nefra's DoT is AoE tagged, so you can entrench every other DoT, but you're right after PTs on my list. I will cleanse you if I can.
  • Jugg/Guardian? You can get every other DoT with Endure Pain. Try to communicate if you're cleansing evens or odds.
  • Assassin/Shadow? At minimum, you can shroud every other DoT. (If Hatred, you can get three in a row with shroud-cloak-shroud)
  • Mara/Sent? Camo one and rebuke the other. I really shouldn't need to worry about you unless things are going terribly wrong.

Edited by Crystal_Mind
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To me, it depends and situational. For the first pull or two if the healers are struggling (or a lot of non-cleanse DPS), then I think the self-cleanse and/or helping with another DPS is better than a wipe. The fight will drag on further but better steady progress to the kill than 'sticking to your role' and wiping a bunch of times.
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with helping out if it doesn't completely ruin your damage, especially if the healers are struggling to cleanse everybody. Better to have the fight last 15 seconds longer than wiping to the DoT.
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Honestly for NiM nefra there is no reason a DPS with cleanse shouldn't cleanse others. Makes the healers job much easier, and the DPS check isn't as high, since we've all seen people get carried through it.

 

I've been in fights where I've cleansed myself, another DPS, and even had to cleanse a healer for a 3rd cleanse, and still did plenty of DPS for that fight. Basically if your not using your cleanse to help your healers, and only thinking of your DPS meter, then your doing it wrong.

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Honestly for NiM nefra there is no reason a DPS with cleanse shouldn't cleanse others. Makes the healers job much easier, and the DPS check isn't as high, since we've all seen people get carried through it.

 

I've been in fights where I've cleansed myself, another DPS, and even had to cleanse a healer for a 3rd cleanse, and still did plenty of DPS for that fight. Basically if your not using your cleanse to help your healers, and only thinking of your DPS meter, then your doing it wrong.

 

Honestly, for NiM nefra there is no reason for a DPS to cleanse either themselves nor another person. Yes you take less damage but does this change the GCDs the healers would do? No, it doesn't. The healers would still spam AOE (as they should) and thus overhealing you. You can cleanse yourself if it doesn't require a GCD, this is not supposed to offend anybody but if you can't heal agains this DoT... Have you tried to level up to 80? I mean, actual healers (aka operatives) can do what? 50k ehps upwards? Yet I rarely see any healer ever go above 20k.

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Honestly, for NiM nefra there is no reason for a DPS to cleanse either themselves nor another person. Yes you take less damage but does this change the GCDs the healers would do? No, it doesn't. The healers would still spam AOE (as they should) and thus overhealing you. You can cleanse yourself if it doesn't require a GCD, this is not supposed to offend anybody but if you can't heal agains this DoT... Have you tried to level up to 80? I mean, actual healers (aka operatives) can do what? 50k ehps upwards? Yet I rarely see any healer ever go above 20k.

 

sure, but only if the group resets if any DPS does less then a 85% Parse and kicks + /ignores that DPS.

Dumb standards in a Game community are "fine", if the same Standards apply to all.

 

Have you had the Tank&Heal slots filled but couldn't find the DPS to kill Nefra? no? I wonder why.

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sure, but only if the group resets if any DPS does less then a 85% Parse and kicks + /ignores that DPS.

Dumb standards in a Game community are "fine", if the same Standards apply to all.

 

Have you had the Tank&Heal slots filled but couldn't find the DPS to kill Nefra? no? I wonder why.

 

I mean... if you do less then 20k on nefra as DPS you should probably not cleanse and focus on playing your class.

 

20k is absolutely nothing, unless you are carnage of course but why would you do that anyway. Like... if you do 20k on lightning maybe you should focus on DPS and completely ignore everything else. 20k is... pathetic - it's not supposed to be mean and if you do no DPS I won't kick nor would I care, but I wouldn't let myself drop to this low standards if I was that player.

 

Also 85% parse? Is that were you want to be? In content where this gear doesn't even benefit you at all? I don't know man, seems like a complete waste of time to me. Sure man, you do you, but I just can't respect people who click because they clearly don't even value their own time, so I'm not going to value theirs either. If you want to click fine, I don't care, but I certainly won't help you out or explain anything to you because you aren't even looking at the screen.

 

Are those dumb standards for a nefra run? Yes, absolutely - do I care? No, but please don't flame anyone and be sub 25k dps yourself, it's all I care about.

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Honestly, for NiM nefra there is no reason for a DPS to cleanse either themselves nor another person. Yes you take less damage but does this change the GCDs the healers would do? No, it doesn't. The healers would still spam AOE (as they should) and thus overhealing you. You can cleanse yourself if it doesn't require a GCD, this is not supposed to offend anybody but if you can't heal agains this DoT... Have you tried to level up to 80? I mean, actual healers (aka operatives) can do what? 50k ehps upwards? Yet I rarely see any healer ever go above 20k.

 

sigh... okay where do I start with this...

 

1.) Yes, the DoT can be healed through, but "don't stand in/eat unnecessary stupid" is a fundamental part of your job as a DPS. If you have a self cleanse, and spending that GCD somehow means you do bad dps, then you're probably not as hot as you think you are. Seriously. :rolleyes:

 

Operation encounters are a group exercise. Unless the healers say they're bored, don't eat stupid. (But related to OP, also don't insult them by doing their job and cleansing other people)

 

2.) No, healers should not mindlessly spam AoE. Healers should heal effectively. If there is no healing to be done, then hit the boss. It's not hard.

 

3.) On operatives... yes they have phenomenal AoE heals. Everyone knows that. The reason most healers don't sit there doing 50k ehps is that they don't need to. Unless everyone is deliberately eating the DoT, the dtps is not high enough to warrant it. See previous note about healing effectively.

---

 

And again, on the topic of this thread... Nefra's enrage timer is a yawn-inducing 6 minutes. Even the worst fleet PUGs I've found haven't hit it. A couple gcds spent on cleanses don't make or break the fight. Tank mentioned in OP chose a very strange hill to die on.

Edited by Crystal_Mind
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sigh... okay where do I start with this...

 

1.) Yes, the DoT can be healed through, but "don't stand in/eat unnecessary stupid" is a fundamental part of your job as a DPS. If you have a self cleanse, and spending that GCD somehow means you fall below 20k dps, then you're probably not as hot as you think you are. Seriously. :rolleyes:

 

If you die because you didn't cleanse as a DPS tell your healers to level to 80. If you don't die to not cleansing why cleanse? "Don't eat unnecessary stupid" ah yes! Remember Red? Remember Withering Horror? Remember Styrak? And so many more bosses where you can leech so effectively, it makes the boss fight so much shorter that it is 100% without the shadow of a doubt worth it to take more damage which could be avoided to then in return kill the boss so much faster your healers can not only heal more effectively no, but also they have to heal less overall.

 

Operation encounters are a group exercise. Unless the healers say they're bored, don't eat stupid. (But related to OP, also don't insult them by doing their job and cleansing other people)

 

But it's quite literally not their job, healers have 3s CD on cleanse. With the amount of marauders and PTs around they probably shouldn't even use theirs to begin with.

 

2.) No, healers should not mindlessly spam AoE. Healers should heal effectively. If there is no healing to be done, then hit the boss. It's not hard.

 

Ah yes! Have you ever done Nefra? Damn I remember all the healers doing 4k+ DPS, oh wait... they have 0 dps regardless.

This is absolutely important to adjust your playstyle to the playstyle of the group, cleansing is not always bad. But in over 90% it is just a wasted GCD, you might as well do nothing in that 1 GCD the effect will be the same.

 

3.) On operatives... yes they have phenomenal AoE heals. Everyone knows that. The reason most healers don't sit there doing 50k ehps is that they don't need to. Unless everyone is deliberately eating the DoT, the dtps is not high enough to warrant it. See previous note about healing effectively.

---

 

Excuse me? And the DPS on nefra just don't need to do... acceptable numbers? Come on, in every single nefra I joined at least two people didn't hit 20k, guess they just didn't want to do more. No, they CAN'T do more.

 

And again, on the topic of this thread... Nefra's enrage timer is a yawn-inducing 6 minutes. Even the worst fleet PUGs I've found haven't hit it. A couple gcds spent on cleanses don't make or break the fight. Tank mentioned in OP chose a very strange hill to die on.

 

Of course they don't, but it's a matter of principle. Yes on bosses like Apex of course DPS should cleanse themselves, why? Because the boss actually does anything. Nefra just stands there, the group just stands there, there is nothing to dodge. It is quite literally a better version of a dummy.

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If you die because you didn't cleanse as a DPS tell your healers to level to 80. If you don't die to not cleansing why cleanse? "Don't eat unnecessary stupid" ah yes! Remember Red? Remember Withering Horror? Remember Styrak? /snip.

You're missing my point. No, you should not be dying to DoT, regardless of cleanse status. As I said, it can be healed through. Yes, leeching is a thing, but the sorcs, mercs, and operatives who can self cleanse on-gcd (the subject of this thread) are not doing much leeching on nefra. We're not talking about maras and PTs. If you are eating the DoT just to eat the DoT, and you're not even getting DPS out of it... well. Frankly at that point you're just being a jerk.

 

But it's quite literally not their job, healers have 3s CD on cleanse. With the amount of marauders and PTs around they probably shouldn't even use theirs to begin with.

I literally said that cleansing is the healers job and dps shouldn't be cleansing other dps... so I'm not sure what you're on about.

 

Ah yes! Have you ever done Nefra? Damn I remember all the healers doing 4k+ DPS, oh wait... they have 0 dps regardless.

This is absolutely important to adjust your playstyle to the playstyle of the group, cleansing is not always bad. But in over 90% it is just a wasted GCD, you might as well do nothing in that 1 GCD the effect will be the same.

I said mindless AoE is bad, and you said more than 90% effective heals is... effectively wasted? What is the disagreement here? A healer that does literally 0 dps on nefra is a healer that didn't even bother to dot or flurry of bolts at the boss, so... as a healer I kind of look down on that, yes. I'm not saying "healers should do 4k dps on nefra," I'm saying put your heals where they belong, and if you have a gcd where everyone's looking healthy shoot the boss because you've got nothing better to do. Again, I'm not sure why you're disagreeing?

 

Excuse me? And the DPS on nefra just don't need to do... acceptable numbers? Come on, in every single nefra I joined at least two people didn't hit 20k, guess they just didn't want to do more. No, they CAN'T do more.

Of course DPS should do acceptable numbers. This has nothing to do with damage taken on nefra not warranting 50k ehps from each healer.

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I said mindless AoE is bad, and you said more than 90% effective heals is... effectively wasted? What is the disagreement here? A healer that does literally 0 dps on nefra is a healer that didn't even bother to dot or flurry of bolts at the boss, so... as a healer I kind of look down on that, yes. I'm not saying "healers should do 4k dps on nefra," I'm saying put your heals where they belong, and if you have a gcd where everyone's looking healthy shoot the boss because you've got nothing better to do. Again, I'm not sure why you're disagreeing?

 

No and yes, if you do cleanse 1/4 DPS the GCDs needed to heal 3 or 4 DPS will be the same, so you lose effective healing on the target, making the cleanse useless and I estimate that this is the case in about 90% of the time. So yes, cleansing lowers your EHPS, but not your HPS.

 

But if you are doing anything less than 4k cleansing a marauder or a PT, maybe even a sorc is literally a bigger damage loss. Provided of course you stack those classes, but that should be the case usually.

 

You should absolutely do damage if there is nothing else to do. This boss is so easy, if you get DPS to cleanse themselves even though the healers, no both healers, have lowered CD on this fight you cannot expect a DPS to pull 20k, because you aren't doing your job properly either! If you cannot heal through this DoT and the DPS have to cleanse, then you have no foundation on that you could call 20k DPS bad, even though it is.

 

The tank looked at the situation in this way: If they can't heal the DoT, they can't heal at all. It is better to take the damage and challenge them to get better, this way he will have more competent healers in the future that might be interested in endgame raiding, which Nefra is just not. I can absolutely understand this point and fully support it, he didn't call the healers bad. He didn't flame anybody, he just said the facts that. No, a DPS should absolutely not help with cleansing - unless not doing so would cause a wipe.

 

TLDR: If you bring yourself to push your HPS numbers up, why are you even in the raid?

Edited by ZUHFB
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No and yes, if you do cleanse 1/4 DPS the GCDs needed to heal 3 or 4 DPS will be the same, so you lose effective healing on the target, making the cleanse useless and I estimate that this is the case in about 90% of the time. So yes, cleansing lowers your EHPS, but not your HPS.

 

But if you are doing anything less than 4k cleansing a marauder or a PT, maybe even a sorc is literally a bigger damage loss. Provided of course you stack those classes, but that should be the case usually.

 

You should absolutely do damage if there is nothing else to do. This boss is so easy, if you get DPS to cleanse themselves even though the healers, no both healers, have lowered CD on this fight you cannot expect a DPS to pull 20k, because you aren't doing your job properly either! If you cannot heal through this DoT and the DPS have to cleanse, then you have no foundation on that you could call 20k DPS bad, even though it is.

 

The tank looked at the situation in this way: If they can't heal the DoT, they can't heal at all. It is better to take the damage and challenge them to get better, this way he will have more competent healers in the future that might be interested in endgame raiding, which Nefra is just not. I can absolutely understand this point and fully support it, he didn't call the healers bad. He didn't flame anybody, he just said the facts that. No, a DPS should absolutely not help with cleansing - unless not doing so would cause a wipe.

 

Okay now we're getting somewhere.

 

As a healer: my cleanse priority for Nefra is and always has been tanks > myself <--> a dps who needs it (depends on group comp). IMO it's never worth doing 4 cleanses during the dot. 3 is pushing it. By the time you get three cleanses off, the dot's half gone, anyway. Two of three tank classes can cleanse on alternate DoTs, and they typically coordinate when they're doing it, so usually I'm only responsible for 2 cleanses max per round. Sometimes I'll skip my own cleanse in favor of a dps (usually a sniper who's sitting out). I do not go out of my way to cleanse people who have self-cleanses. If they want the cleanse, they can get it themselves. I'm certainly not going to be fussed if someone does.

 

As a DPS: For clarity, I'm usually either Hatred or sniper. As Hatred, I'm getting my own DoT cleanses off-gcd 3 times out of 4. I can live through the one I can't purge if the healers are decent. As Sniper I really do want a cleanse because all I can do is entrench for the AoE DR and I'm usually on droid (and therefore not in the stacked group for heals). Once in a long while I will play sorc dps. I understand your argument, but (especially for Nefra) I've never considered cleansing myself in this fight to be a bad thing. I don't usually know the healers in a PUG, so I might as well make the DoT a non-issue on my end. (I still think that if spending a gcd on self-cleanse causes you to do bad dps in this fight, there are bigger issues than the self cleanse.)

 

As far as the tank mentioned in the OP is concerned:

I understand the thought process. I also think that ragequitting a fleet PUG over the issue is a prima-donna move. That's just a difference of opinion.

Edited by Crystal_Mind
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If they can't heal the DoT, they can't heal at all. It is better to take the damage and challenge them to get better, this way he will have more competent healers in the future that might be interested in endgame raiding

 

literally every single Argument you make contradicts itself.

 

I'd take any Healer who can properly assign dispells over any Scoundrel/Operative that only ever learned how to cast underworld Medicine on themselves.

 

I just can't respect people who click because they clearly don't even value their own time, so I'm not going to value theirs either. If you want to click fine, I don't care, but I certainly won't help you out or explain anything to you because you aren't even looking at the screen.

 

you don't have to click just pressing the cleanse Button with Nefra in your Target will self-cleanse, DPS don't have to look at the screen for Nefra if the Tanks do their Job, there's a very obvious que for when the Dot is applied. what does either of that have to do with Healers?

 

 

Are those dumb standards for a nefra run? Yes, absolutely - do I care? No, but please don't flame anyone and be sub 25k dps yourself, it's all I care about.

 

why wouldn't I flame you just because some arbitrary number you made up? So what if healers and Tanks can't do 25k DPS without any healers or Tanks you'll never kill Nefra MM.

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literally every single Argument you make contradicts itself.

 

I'd take any Healer who can properly assign dispells over any Scoundrel/Operative that only ever learned how to cast underworld Medicine on themselves.

 

I wouldn't.

 

why wouldn't I flame you just because some arbitrary number you made up? So what if healers and Tanks can't do 25k DPS without any healers or Tanks you'll never kill Nefra MM.

 

Why would you flame me, I don't give you a reason to. I do my job, I shut up, I don't care what you do, but when someone expects the healers to heal (outrageous I know) somehow it is a problem now? Sure you can carry the healers through nefra, but if you can't even heal nefra then what are you going to do with the gear? Upgrade it by doing 26x DF SM?

 

Either way, I'm done with this discussion. There is no point, it does not matter if a DPS cleanses or not - it simply doesn't matter and isn't worth spending time on anymore. If you are going to do it, do it - if you don't you don't, it is what it is. Just know that by doing this you are holding players back from improving and are probably, no definitely, harm them more in the long run.

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Sure you can carry the healers through nefra

 

you literally can't carry the Healers unless you bring more then two on 8-man they have to do their Job, DPS don't.

 

you can underheal on 16-man but you could drop half the DPS if it wasn't for the Nightmare attack so I simply don't get why you would rater carry bad DPS then Carry mediocre Healers.

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Is it really that bad to throw an extra cleanse here and there to help the group out?

 

contrary to some others here who seem to have dug their ditches and don't plan on moving, I think its fair to say that honestly, everyone in your situation was in the right, it just depends on the situation and what you care about

 

the healers did need to learn to play their class better, but in a pug group do you really want to spend more time than you need to kill a boss, just to help/teach someone else? Helping bad healers with cleansing to reduce the dtps is perfectly fine if it makes it easier to clear the fight, caring about the performance development of random pug healers is probably not the highest objective on most people's priority lists :D

 

if this was in a situation with a raid team that raids on the regular and that you are stuck with :cool: , helping those healers to learn to play better would probably have been the smarter option, but with pugs its different

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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the healers did need to learn to play their class better, but in a pug group do you really want to spend more time than you need to kill a boss, just to help/teach someone else? Helping bad healers with cleansing to reduce the dtps is perfectly fine if it makes it easier to clear the fight, caring about the performance development of random pug healers is probably not the highest objective on most people's priority lists :D

 

This! While I believe in always embracing learning and a willingness to teach, we all need to be pragmatic about the scenario. Nim Nef is about farming Rakata gear, and considering the nature of pugs and each players motivations, it is overwhelmingly more about getting it done efficiently than educating players and expecting better play by role. Over time yes, but instance by instance it is about finding a way to complete the objective with the op group make-up you have.

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The tank is right. The Jugg and Guardian classes have their own cleanses exclusively for themselves. The healers should know that the Juggs/Guards will never need cleanses. Your job as a Dps with a self cleanse is to smash serious DPS and cleanse yourself every time you get the dot on you and of course follow the mechanics but that is really about it.
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The tank is right. The Jugg and Guardian classes have their own cleanses exclusively for themselves. The healers should know that the Juggs/Guards will never need cleanses. Your job as a Dps with a self cleanse is to smash serious DPS and cleanse yourself every time you get the dot on you and of course follow the mechanics but that is really about it.

 

Not true. Juggs and guardians can only cleanse themselves every other time. So they need cleanses every now and then.

 

And the tank was definitely not right considering context. It was a pug group, the idea was to farm Rakata gear, not wipe until healer "gets better". If the healers are struggling and someone can help out to with an extra cleanse, please do so. Rage quitting because a dwh wanted Nefra killed faster was just dumb. "Principles" :rolleyes:

 

If I'm joining Nefra run as a dps, I'm usually bringing a mando or merc. The dps is not great, but I can take care of the droid and help with extra cleanses if needed. If someone decides I'm bad because I bring a low dps class and do lower dps because I'm also doing other stuff, I don't really care. I don't need validation of my skills from random pugs, I just want to make the run as smooth and easy as possible. If I want to show off, I'll bring something else. If I want people to suck up to me, I'll bring a tank :D

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Not true. Juggs and guardians can only cleanse themselves every other time. So they need cleanses every now and then.

 

And the tank was definitely not right considering context. It was a pug group, the idea was to farm Rakata gear, not wipe until healer "gets better". If the healers are struggling and someone can help out to with an extra cleanse, please do so. Rage quitting because a dwh wanted Nefra killed faster was just dumb. "Principles" :rolleyes:

 

If I'm joining Nefra run as a dps, I'm usually bringing a mando or merc. The dps is not great, but I can take care of the droid and help with extra cleanses if needed. If someone decides I'm bad because I bring a low dps class and do lower dps because I'm also doing other stuff, I don't really care. I don't need validation of my skills from random pugs, I just want to make the run as smooth and easy as possible. If I want to show off, I'll bring something else. If I want people to suck up to me, I'll bring a tank :D

 

But then why do you join in the first place? You are never going to get any benefit from the gear? It is completely impossible to get the time back you need to get to 330 by shaving of 2s of every daily you do? Might as well just not bother doing it.

 

Cleansing yourself just isn't helping the healers out, they get encouraged to use actual non AOE's on DPS whos take almost 0 effective damage, sure you might be low for a while but who cares? There is 0 point healing the DPS single target and when a few DPS cleanse themselves this takes away those heals from the tanks. If that tank now died to low healing, he died because you took damage out of the group - for 0 reason. Yes the overall DTPS is lower, but so is the HPS. Cleansing actively hurts the tanks. Yes, good healers know this and won't spend time healing a DPS with let's say emergency scan.

Saying those healers are "bad" is... weird cuz, nobody does this. Nobody cares if you single target heal the tank or not, it doesn't matter until you get to fights like Apex MM or harder. It still is a mistake, and it still takes away healing form the tanks - if that tank died to not getting enough healing it could very well be that cleansing hurts your team more than it helps.

 

Cleansing yourself is also just... kinda cringe?

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But then why do you join in the first place? You are never going to get any benefit from the gear? It is completely impossible to get the time back you need to get to 330 by shaving of 2s of every daily you do? Might as well just not bother doing it.

 

You must have missed some of my older posts where I said I raid. I may not benefit the gear on heroics and dailies, but I prefer having good gear for raiding. And because I've been in full 330 gear for quite some time now, sometimes I join because someone asks me to. Weird, I know. But a lot of people still need gear and if I can help, I will.

 

Cleansing yourself just isn't helping the healers out, they get encouraged to use actual non AOE's on DPS whos take almost 0 effective damage, sure you might be low for a while but who cares? There is 0 point healing the DPS single target and when a few DPS cleanse themselves this takes away those heals from the tanks. If that tank now died to low healing, he died because you took damage out of the group - for 0 reason. Yes the overall DTPS is lower, but so is the HPS. Cleansing actively hurts the tanks. Yes, good healers know this and won't spend time healing a DPS with let's say emergency scan.

 

What? That makes zero sense. Are you sure we are playing the same game? How does dps self doing self cleanse hurt tanks? Tanks are getting LESS heals, if healers also need to heal the group and cleanse 4 dps + themselves. The only times I've struggled as a tank on Nefra has been when the group is full of people without a self cleanse. I don't even go with a VG/PT tank after I got my weapons because I know it will make the healer's job harder. I don't want to make their life harder, I want to make it easier. It's about farming gear, not progression raiding.

 

 

Saying those healers are "bad" is... weird cuz, nobody does this. Nobody cares if you single target heal the tank or not, it doesn't matter until you get to fights like Apex MM or harder. It still is a mistake, and it still takes away healing form the tanks - if that tank died to not getting enough healing it could very well be that cleansing hurts your team more than it helps.

 

Cleansing yourself is also just... kinda cringe?

 

So if nobody cares, why do you. Besides, weren't you already done with this discussion?

https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=10037320&postcount=16

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You must have missed some of my older posts where I said I raid. I may not benefit the gear on heroics and dailies, but I prefer having good gear for raiding. And because I've been in full 330 gear for quite some time now, sometimes I join because someone asks me to. Weird, I know. But a lot of people still need gear and if I can help, I will.

 

You raid on merc? GG.

 

What? That makes zero sense. Are you sure we are playing the same game? How does dps self doing self cleanse hurt tanks? Tanks are getting LESS heals, if healers also need to heal the group and cleanse 4 dps + themselves. The only times I've struggled as a tank on Nefra has been when the group is full of people without a self cleanse. I don't even go with a VG/PT tank after I got my weapons because I know it will make the healer's job harder. I don't want to make their life harder, I want to make it easier. It's about farming gear, not progression raiding.

 

I - explained - it, if you stop thinking about healing as HPS but instead as the individual GCDs spend on a person, you will see how it makes no sense to heal DPS with single target on a fight like nefra. It should not happen if your healers are really really good, which leaves the conclusion that it does happen. One emergency scan on a DPS is already wasted, you might as well do nothing for 1 GCD, no in fact doing nothing for this GCD would be better because you still have emergency scan ready. Instead, healers should do the occasional AOE into the group and fluff the group up, instead of spending actual single target heals on the group - which they have to if you cleanse since AOE loses it's effective healing and they are less likely do so WHICH again results in a direct loss of valuable ABILITIES, not GCDs, spend healing the tanks. (which shouldn't be necessary but still)

 

So if nobody cares, why do you.

 

Because you keep spreading false information and encouraging people to be bad?

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You raid on merc? GG.

 

Where did I say that? Stop deliberately misinterpreting my messages to suit your own agenda, which seems to be trolling and trying to raise an argument and nothing else. I've never said anywhere I raid with a merc. You seem to think that everyone in the game is stupid but you, which tells more about you than the rest of us.

 

 

I - explained - it, if you stop thinking about healing as HPS but instead as the individual GCDs spend on a person, you will see how it makes no sense to heal DPS with single target on a fight like nefra. It should not happen if your healers are really really good, which leaves the conclusion that it does happen. One emergency scan on a DPS is already wasted, you might as well do nothing for 1 GCD, no in fact doing nothing for this GCD would be better because you still have emergency scan ready. Instead, healers should do the occasional AOE into the group and fluff the group up, instead of spending actual single target heals on the group - which they have to if you cleanse since AOE loses it's effective healing and they are less likely do so WHICH again results in a direct loss of valuable ABILITIES, not GCDs, spend healing the tanks. (which shouldn't be necessary but still)

 

 

 

Because you keep spreading false information and encouraging people to be bad?

 

Trying to explain that nonsense again doesn't make it any more valid than it was before. If anyone is spreading false information it's you.

 

Do you even understand the difference between nefra farming and progression raiding in a raiding group?

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