Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

7.0 Changes are NOT what was promised.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
7.0 Changes are NOT what was promised.

Nortumberland's Avatar


Nortumberland
09.14.2021 , 05:18 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by CEasterbrook View Post
Advanced classes have not received a complete rework since launch and it is about time some real work was done to them. Ability bloat has become a real problem with some classes/specs and these changes will be liked by some and hated by others and that is okay. Just because they did not mention all the upcoming changes in July/August does not mean they have not been in the pipeline for sometime. If you don't like the final product you are always free to play something else. I would wait to see the final product before jumping all over the changes, we are not getting the complete picture as of now.
Or they could leave it as it is and rather spend money/resources on content which is way more important. Those who see a bloating problem can stay in other great games like ESO or FF. Those who don't can keep playing SWTOR and enjoy the so desired content. I see it as a WIN-WIN frankly.
Ability bloat is a meme. If you are a casual, you can succeed w/o 3/4 skills since the game is easy as hell. That's how my friends play the game at least. One quickbar. No more, no less. No bloating at all. If you are a serious player, bloating is also nonexistant since this type of ppl naturally enjoyes challange. The more tools a game provides, the more space for self-improvent you have, the more fun you get. What does pruning do? It takes away tools=takes away diversity=takes away fun. Pruning is a step back, not forward. It did no good to WoW. Even with the abusive amount of borrowed powers to compensate. Devs eventually reverted a lot of changes, but lost money, lost players, possibly lost the game. Pruning killed the SWTOR's ancestor - SWG.
The conclusion is: pruning will eventually cost the game a lot. Many ppl who love SWTOR and kept playing it for years will quit. Some will stay ofc. A lot of new players might come. But will the dumbed gameplay keep them? No. Why? Dumb gameplay is fun when you have a bloat of content to roll around. You don't have that in SWTOR. Dumb gameplay+lack of content is a deadly mix. 7.0 can repeat the Shadowlands. Huge interest on start, dead after a month or two.

CEasterbrook's Avatar


CEasterbrook
09.14.2021 , 04:08 PM | #12
As I said some will like it, some won't. Everyone will have an opinion which is right is subjective.

Ugolino's Avatar


Ugolino
09.14.2021 , 08:24 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by CEasterbrook View Post
Advanced classes have not received a complete rework since launch and it is about time some real work was done to them. Ability bloat has become a real problem with some classes/specs and these changes will be liked by some and hated by others and that is okay. Just because they did not mention all the upcoming changes in July/August does not mean they have not been in the pipeline for sometime. If you don't like the final product you are always free to play something else. I would wait to see the final product before jumping all over the changes, we are not getting the complete picture as of now.
Oh, hey, the usual excuses.

1. A claim that advanced classes haven't been reworked before- a lie.
2. Ability bloat is a "problem"- so don't play the classes that Bioware wants to destroy, especially since a lot of the changes aren't simplified, they've just left gaping holes in basic gameplay, with wild inconsistencies between classes.
3. No relevant number of people like the actual changes. These changes are hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons.
4. An appeal to "we don't have the whole picture" when there's no way to make some of these changes look good. Explain why removing saber reflect and all the mobility and survivability from Guardians is on par with overload shot, and why operatives get sleep dart of all things back when Guardians are losing basic DCDs in the name of "simplicity"

5. If we're playing the "you should play something else" game, the handful of fans of these PTS changes should leave instead, rather than the vast majority of the population. We were here first and you are, frankly speaking, a rounding error.

ExarSun's Avatar


ExarSun
09.14.2021 , 11:44 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Ugolino View Post
Oh, hey, the usual excuses.

1. A claim that advanced classes haven't been reworked before- a lie.
2. Ability bloat is a "problem"- so don't play the classes that Bioware wants to destroy, especially since a lot of the changes aren't simplified, they've just left gaping holes in basic gameplay, with wild inconsistencies between classes.
3. No relevant number of people like the actual changes. These changes are hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons.
4. An appeal to "we don't have the whole picture" when there's no way to make some of these changes look good. Explain why removing saber reflect and all the mobility and survivability from Guardians is on par with overload shot, and why operatives get sleep dart of all things back when Guardians are losing basic DCDs in the name of "simplicity"

5. If we're playing the "you should play something else" game, the handful of fans of these PTS changes should leave instead, rather than the vast majority of the population. We were here first and you are, frankly speaking, a rounding error.
Nailed it. Its obvious to me at least that the devs (who i suspect rarely play their own game and classes) have favourite classes like Operative and have decided to **** on (excuse the expression) the Guardian and Sentinel classes and have finally found the perfect excuse - the disaster called combat styles.

Obroa-Skai's Avatar


Obroa-Skai
09.15.2021 , 03:03 AM | #15
Honestly i can't wait for new animations to come, and probably also new ability icons and names to adapt, example, an Adv Proto combat style to a Trooper.

The rest is just like many already explained: Hunters play hunters' story but can play as a sniper, a smuggler, or normally as a Bounty hunter as we are used to know it.

Ability pruning is another thing that so far, according to what's on the PTS, can create some unbalance between classes or make some classes weaker or with less utilities.

About the latter point, my opinion is that in this game people tend to make too much of a drama when changes are about to come. Geez, some made comparison with SWG ending after pruning. Keep your sunny side up even without stupid Enure.
ProNub

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
09.15.2021 , 05:41 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Obroa-Skai View Post
Geez, some made comparison with SWG ending after pruning. Keep your sunny side up even without stupid Enure.
Whilst ignoring that SWG continued on for, what, another five or six years after the NGE, and it was not the NGE that caused the servers to shutdown. And they compare this to WOW and how WOW's ability prune cost them so many players, whilst ignoring that WOW did not have significant losses until all this legal stuff about the rampant, sanctioned harassment came out.


Quote: Originally Posted by Obroa-Skai View Post
About the latter point, my opinion is that in this game people tend to make too much of a drama when changes are about to come.
That is not opinion. That is a statement of fact. Their hyperbolic, irrational, nonsensical rants are worthy of my 3 year-old nephew having a tantrum because we did not put on the correct train video.
~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
Just your average opinionated, disabled, queer gaymer.

Strathkin's Avatar


Strathkin
09.16.2021 , 11:55 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Aberd View Post
Let me be honest about the changes that are currently on 7.0 PTS.

I HATE them. I think they are stupid and utterly unnecessary.
I can see tweaking the utilities, moving certain utilities to be base class abilities (Battlefield Training for vanguards), and pruning useless and unused utilities.

These changes are also NOT what we were promised a couple months ago in June/July. Here is my understanding of what was promised back then.
  1. We would choose a base class; agent, smuggler, bounty hunter, jedi consular, sith warrior, etc. This would dictate which of the 8 base story lines our character would play through. There is some story stuff this would affect in later game content, but is minimal.
  2. We would then choose an advanced class (within limits - tech base class could only choose between tech advance class; same for force users with some caveat for LS/DS alignment.) This would allow a jedi knight to use a double bladed lightsaber or a bounty hunter to use an assault cannon or sniper rifle.

What I have seen on the PTS thus far (as of the date of this post) is a complete reworking and restructuring of the advanced classes.

What I was hoping for, and would love to see is a blending of the mirrored classes...

I like my power techs, I like their abilities just as they are. I prefer my PTs over my Vanguard troopers, I like the animations and the overall feel better, especially Jet Charge vs. Storm. Here, get rid of Storm and replace it with Jet Charge, this alone will make vanguards more fun. The ONE thing I do not like about the PT, using blaster pistols. The one thing I do not want to do is go full plasmatech on my PTs just to use a blaster rifle.

Please BW, STOP the current AC restructuring in its tracks, trash what has been done to date and start over to give us players what was promised when you said you were going to separate base/story class from play style.
I mean I'd say the VAST MAJORITY would stand behind this 110%. Here's what I said in another thread which puts in mildly.

Quote: Originally Posted by Strathkin View Post
I mean you went easy on them compared to another FRIEND of mine. I mean lots of talk of far less abilities, or reduced proficiencies, than what were gaining from having Combat Styles or Loadouts! Many classes want some of their more favorite abilities back, if you need to remove some take those away nobody ever used.

So trying to stay constructive:

I think they LOST FOCUS on what they should have DONE with Loudouts! Which is offered them to quickly switch Gear, Change proficiencies, or swapping items quickly that are in Bank or Cargo Hold. I mean I don't do PvP, but when I do I mostly stink (not because I'm bad) yet I don't like setting a PvP Build with Combat Proficiencies, just because as soon as match is over, I'd have to change it back...

So here is the constructive part... ...sadly what's DONE is DONE, so all we can HOPE for is they add some abilities back to a few Class, or Combat Styles! Maybe there is still time to FIX this before it goes LIVE.

Haven't even heard good things about the new Interface either.
https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=997315
https://i.imgur.com/Vq1gaqL.png

They clearly got sucked into a Rabbit Hole, and lost focus on what they originally committed to. I mean I like the idea of Hybrid Class you suggest, just don't know if they have enough time to do something like that. What I do understand is many don't like loosing abilities, cause several were considered CORE to each Class. The REAL problem is they aren't offering NEW abilities even 1, to make up for some of the loss. I mean all this just so we can choose a new weapon type, honestly lack luster benefit to this change!

Now they are going to have to work TWICE as hard to try and FIX before LAUNCH.

I just generally see far more UPSET than satisfied, with the vast majority of these changes. While a limited few they buffed some classes, like TANK on Imperial Side while Nerfing those on Republic side overly harsh.

*sigh*
A constant supporter of Baby Yoda!