I see there are a lot of posts since I last checked in and I'm feeling a little too lazy atm to read them all...

 

I'm trying something different this time with my Q&A post. I'm pointing out that they mentioned the possibility of some companions leaving us and new ones joining up. So I asked about the new companions to see if they'd comment on them.

 

Figured it was worth a try at any rate...

No one should feel like they are "letting down the cause" if they post their own question.

 

And it might be a less inflammatory way for them to release some information. Good deal.

 

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but I strongly support sgr's being added to the game, as well as those eagerly waiting for them to get an ETA

That said, if you haven't yet posted to this week's Community Q&A Thread, your support for a status update on same-gender content would be welcome.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Uluain

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but I strongly support sgr's being added to the game, as well as those eagerly waiting for them to get an ETA

All support helps. Thank you.

 

Hey there. I've been playing with the idea of posting here, since my experiences with S/S threads usually end badly. In any case, as a gay guy I think it's time for me to show my support.

 

Now, I trust BioWare. Along the years they've proven how gay/woman/etc-friendly they are, and that's amazing. I actually think that some of the repplies are a little too much, making some serious accusations that I just think are unfair.

Welcome. I don't think your trust in BioWare is misplaced, and not only because I share that trust. I believe peoples' word until they give me reason not to, and so far, BW hasn't given me that reason. And yeah, I've made more than a few posts about unfair accusations myself. Oi.

 

In any case, I understand the disappointment. Personally I think the S/S content will only appear in a expansion, wich is sad - as someone already said somewhere, paying more to do things people already do in the base game rubs me the wrong way.

Wholly agreed. The first statement we got about this seems to confuse a lot of people - the phrase "future expansion content" has led to a lot of people thinking SGRs would only be in an actual, paid-for expansion. However, anything that adds content to the game can be considered expansion content, so hopefully that won't be the case.

 

I also think that some people fail to understand that some of the repplies in this thread are not just about having some hot guy on guy, girl on girl action (I'd love some with Corso, though ), but what having the option means. I consider it a pretty powerful thing, but I suppose I can see why it doesn't mean much to other people.

Corso seems to be a big hit with all kinds of people. And it does make sense that for a lot of people, this would be a complete "whatever" of an option. But for those who want it, it's a really big deal, because it means both equality and being able to play our characters the way we want to play them. I never really thought about how some games forced the player's character into heterosexuality, but now that the option to be otherwise is on the table, a lot of people want it.

 

And that's all I have to say. I love TOR not only because of the romances, but the story too, so I probably won't unsubscribe unless they really, really mess things up badly. If that happens, well, I'll always have Dragon Age.

Much the same here, though I didn't really like DA. Once my mage had romanced Leliana, I felt like I'd completed the most important part. I do like TOR too much to cancel my subscription over this, unless BioWare breaks their word and states that SGRs won't be in. That would make me cancel. I do, however, really regret that I can't play my female characters for fear of missing out on SGR companion romances.

No one should feel like they are "letting down the cause" if they post their own question.

 

And it might be a less inflammatory way for them to release some information. Good deal.

 

 

That said, if you haven't yet posted to this week's Community Q&A Thread, your support for a status update on same-gender content would be welcome.

 

Doesn't it seem wrong that we have to basically beg a company to treat everyone equally? This content should have been in the game already.

Doesn't it seem wrong that we have to basically beg a company to treat everyone equally? This content should have been in the game already.

 

I agree. BW has handled this whole thing badly from start to finish. Should it have been in the game day 1? Absolutely. For whatever reason it wasn't. Now we can do nothing but sit around waiting till they decide to do something to fix it with no idea how or when because they refuse to acknowledge the issues.

 

As badly as they have done up to this point, I'm actually doubting the actual implementation will be worth anything. They obviously aren't seeing the threads or the feedback so they probably don't have any idea what we are actually asking for. More than likely if they ever do add this, it will just be more screw ups.

Doesn't it seem wrong that we have to basically beg a company to treat everyone equally? This content should have been in the game already.

As far as companion romances, they are on-board for it - eventually. That isn't ideal, but we really have no idea what sort of internal snafu resulted in this (apparently) being picked up late.

 

I do worry that mission NPC [Flirt] prompts will not be treated equably, but having posted on that topic in the Suggestion Box, I feel I have done what I reasonably can.

I personally think SGR's just need a rough ETA, and skimming over the hundreds of questions weekly on the Q&A's is disrespectful to their loyal customer base.

Those who agree may hit the like button here:

http://www.facebook.com/SameGenderSWTOR

Wow. I'm gone about 12 hours and there's ten pages of posts, the vast majority of which seems to be a back-and-forth fight, not regarding the validity of SGRAs but instead - of all things - the validity of a 'shut up and wait' policy... Alongside, of course, a healthy serving of Eeyore.

 

I'm not going to get involved in the 'shut up and wait' debate with the exception of saying this: We have a right to ask. Whether we have a right to an answer is irrelevant, because Bioware will answer or not as they see fit. But if they don't answer we WILL - like any group out there wanting to see a feature added or fixed - keep asking.

 

Nobody speaks for the pro-SGRA group as a whole. As a result we have many voices (for we are Legion) and those voices want to be heard. So yes, we're vocal. There are plenty of other vocal groups out there. Whether we're a minority is also irrelevant because it's Bioware - not us or our detractors - who decide whether to pay attention to us or not. If you don't understand why we're so vocal rest assured you don't need to; our vocality won't change just because you don't understand. And if you honestly WANT to understand, read these threads. We've answered this many times before, and likely will in the future.

I also think that some people fail to understand that some of the repplies in this thread are not just about having some hot guy on guy, girl on girl action (I'd love some with Corso, though ), but what having the option means. I consider it a pretty powerful thing, but I suppose I can see why it doesn't mean much to other people.

 

THIS. So very this. I am bisexual, but by no means does that mean that I go after anything that moves. Its very possible that I will level every class and not be attracted to ANY of the male NPCs (that is assuming all my characters will be male -- I am toying with the idea of a female Sith) But to have the option of perusing romance regardless of gender is not only fair but for players like me, it would also be affirming. Being a bisexual man puts me in a place where there are many misconceptions about my orientation; some think I am just gay and have not figured it out yet or that being bisexual means I want or need 'one of each'.

 

There is a very real kind of discrimination called bisexual erasure where people tend to think bisexuals don't exist (Case in point there was not a single 'gay cowboy' in Brokeback Mountain. There were two bisexual sheepherders) but in Star Wars The Old Republic, quite literally we do not exist. So the option to play a bi character though probably unimportant in the bigger story arcs has a very important impact on me.

I don't post often but i just wanted to pop in real quick and say to keep up the good fight.

 

I have been following this issue since before the game launched. I'm sure there are more like me who are too shy to post often.

 

Keep up the pressure to get a response, they can't ignore us forever.

There is a very real kind of discrimination called bisexual erasure where people tend to think bisexuals don't exist (Case in point there was not a single 'gay cowboy' in Brokeback Mountain. There were two bisexual sheepherders) but in Star Wars The Old Republic, quite literally we do not exist. So the option to play a bi character though probably unimportant in the bigger story arcs has a very important impact on me.

 

Funny, I was just talking to someone very awesome last night about bisexual erasure. I didn't know it had a term that wasn't obscene. But yes, as a bisexual man I heartily agree.

Funny, I was just talking to someone very awesome last night about bisexual erasure. I didn't know it had a term that wasn't obscene. But yes, as a bisexual man I heartily agree.

 

I would love to know what your friend called it. If its likely to be censored, pass it to me in a PM please.

i had tried to romance my companion ashara because from the moment i started my charachter back in wow she has always been a lesbian she has been in every game iv played her in and so i went with her lore. unable to do the companion i spent 100k raising the affection no to have a straight through romance arch O.O i get to the end with no romance i was very mad >< i even kno people who have quit the game all together cause they didnt get to do what they wanted and people keep saying that new companions will be added in and they will be the only ones that will be bi/gay =/ if thats true then players dont get to chose they are forced into the ones you allow them and alot will not like that at all i kno i wont

i had tried to romance my companion ashara because from the moment i started my charachter back in wow she has always been a lesbian she has been in every game iv played her in and so i went with her lore. unable to do the companion i spent 100k raising the affection no to have a straight through romance arch O.O i get to the end with no romance i was very mad >< i even kno people who have quit the game all together cause they didnt get to do what they wanted and people keep saying that new companions will be added in and they will be the only ones that will be bi/gay =/ if thats true then players dont get to chose they are forced into the ones you allow them and alot will not like that at all i kno i wont

 

Well, to be fair, straight players are also "forced" to romance only one companion (male Sith Warriors and flings like Tharan/Pierce aside, of course). The only companion you can romance as female Smuggler is Corso, as female Inquisitor is Andronikos (Andronikos <3)... anyway, you get my point.

 

Of course, if bi companions are added, that means straight players will have the original and the new romance option, but BioWare games as a whole usually just have one S/S romance for each gender anyway, so I wouldn't be particulary surprised.

THIS. So very this. I am bisexual, but by no means does that mean that I go after anything that moves. Its very possible that I will level every class and not be attracted to ANY of the male NPCs (that is assuming all my characters will be male -- I am toying with the idea of a female Sith) But to have the option of perusing romance regardless of gender is not only fair but for players like me, it would also be affirming. Being a bisexual man puts me in a place where there are many misconceptions about my orientation; some think I am just gay and have not figured it out yet or that being bisexual means I want or need 'one of each'.

 

There is a very real kind of discrimination called bisexual erasure where people tend to think bisexuals don't exist (Case in point there was not a single 'gay cowboy' in Brokeback Mountain. There were two bisexual sheepherders) but in Star Wars The Old Republic, quite literally we do not exist. So the option to play a bi character though probably unimportant in the bigger story arcs has a very important impact on me.

 

Yup, as a bisexual man I agree! Though I doubt it would be impossible to play a bi character... If the content is there I would hope they make it all accessible for those of us that are interested(it would take more time to separate it all out anyway lol).

 

And I would also be interested in that other term lol, someone PM it to me if it's off limits for the forum...

Yup, as a bisexual man I agree! Though I doubt it would be impossible to play a bi character... If the content is there I would hope they make it all accessible for those of us that are interested(it would take more time to separate it all out anyway lol).

 

And I would also be interested in that other term lol, someone PM it to me if it's off limits for the forum...

 

Funnily enough, there's a trope for that on TV Tropes, aptly called No Bisexuals.

I would love to know what your friend called it. If its likely to be censored, pass it to me in a PM please.

 

Oh, I was referring to terms I'd use for it. I've had several terms for it. PMs have the same profanity filter, as far as I know, but in any case you can probably imagine it isn't kind. Bisexual erasure... Yeah, that fits.

I personally think SGR's just need a rough ETA, and skimming over the hundreds of questions weekly on the Q&A's is disrespectful to their loyal customer base.

Those who agree may hit the like button here:

http://www.facebook.com/SameGenderSWTOR

Having another place for supporters, one more visible than a thread on a message board, is definitely a good thing, so kudos for that. However, I disagree that BioWare is "skimming over" the Q&A questions. They have their reasons for what they can and can't answer; I do not think they are deliberately ignoring us, but they are not able to give us an answer yet for their own reasons. As much as I want to hear about SGRs, I do hope they've learned from Blizzard's unfortunate policy of talking about things way, way before they're ready to be implemented.

 

I don't post often but i just wanted to pop in real quick and say to keep up the good fight.

I have been following this issue since before the game launched. I'm sure there are more like me who are too shy to post often.

Keep up the pressure to get a response, they can't ignore us forever.

Welcome! It's always good to see a new face in here, always good to add a voice to the support. Like I said above, I don't think we're being ignored, but it does help us to make sure this issue doesn't go away and that we get some answers. Please remember to post in the Q&A thread if you haven't already!

 

and people keep saying that new companions will be added in and they will be the only ones that will be bi/gay =/ if thats true then players dont get to chose they are forced into the ones you allow them and alot will not like that at all i kno i wont

That hasn't been confirmed. The vague language in the first bit of information we got has led a lot of people to assume that "future expansion content" means an expansion pack, which is not necessarily true - anything that adds content to the game can be considered "future expansion content". As of now, we don't know exactly how SGRs will be implemented; this is why we keep asking. So there's hope! You may in fact be able to romance Ashara sometime in the future. It hasn't been promised, but it's a possibility.

 

Yup, as a bisexual man I agree! Though I doubt it would be impossible to play a bi character... If the content is there I would hope they make it all accessible for those of us that are interested(it would take more time to separate it all out anyway lol).

Well, you could probably play a bisexual character if BW implements same-gender flirts, but there's a different thread for that discussion. Since classes who get two romanceable companions are eventually made to choose between them if they try to do both romances, I would imagine it would be the same for SGRs. So you might be able to swing both ways, but only settle down with one.

 

Maybe that's why it's taking so long. If all companions become SGR-compliant, then that's a lot of "fighting over the PC" dialogue to write. ...now that I think about it, that sounds kind of fun...

Edited February 28, 2012 by MusedMoose

Well, you could probably play a bisexual character if BW implements same-gender flirts, but there's a different thread for that discussion. Since classes who get two romanceable companions are eventually made to choose between them if they try to do both romances, I would imagine it would be the same for SGRs. So you might be able to swing both ways, but only settle down with one.

 

Maybe that's why it's taking so long. If all companions become SGR-compliant, then that's a lot of "fighting over the PC" dialogue to write. ...now that I think about it, that sounds kind of fun...

 

well yeah, I'm not one to be with more than one person at a time, I just happen to be attracted to both genders(there are some bisexuals that feel differently, but I think that the majority eventually end up with a single person).

 

And I'm partial to a battle for the death for my char's love and affection lol. But in all honesty I really dislike mako for some reason, so I'm hoping that the new option will be more my type.

well yeah, I'm not one to be with more than one person at a time, I just happen to be attracted to both genders(there are some bisexuals that feel differently, but I think that the majority eventually end up with a single person).

 

And I'm partial to a battle for the death for my char's love and affection lol. But in all honesty I really dislike mako for some reason, so I'm hoping that the new option will be more my type.

I didn't mean to imply anything about you wanting to be with more than one person at a time, I'm sorry if it came off that way. I know not all bisexuals are stereotypical "anything that moves" sorts, didn't mean that at all.

 

And apparently one of the Smuggler's would-be lovers is willing to duel the other for the Smuggler's affection, so you might want to look into that. And yeah, finding someone who suits your character would be a great benefit of SGRs being added to current companions. Like I said earlier, Corso really seems to fit my (male) Smuggler best, which surprises the hell out of me since I didn't think it would work that way.

well yeah, I'm not one to be with more than one person at a time, I just happen to be attracted to both genders(there are some bisexuals that feel differently, but I think that the majority eventually end up with a single person).

 

And I'm partial to a battle for the death for my char's love and affection lol. But in all honesty I really dislike mako for some reason, so I'm hoping that the new option will be more my type.

 

Say it ain't so! I loved Mako from the time I set eyes on her! Having said that I would have loved for just one FLIRT option with that Twi'Lek receptionist(?) at Nemro's.

I didn't mean to imply anything about you wanting to be with more than one person at a time, I'm sorry if it came off that way. I know not all bisexuals are stereotypical "anything that moves" sorts, didn't mean that at all.

 

lol don't worry, I don't generally interpret stuff as offensive unless it's blatant/clearly intentional . It's the internet and things can always be interpreted many ways with just text, so I generally assume the best.

 

Say it ain't so! I loved Mako from the time I set eyes on her! Having said that I would have loved for just one FLIRT option with that Twi'Lek receptionist(?) at Nemro's.

 

I've kind of seen her as more of a sister to some degree lol... and she never agrees with my decisions, it's annoying having to keep her in line XD. And +1 for that Twi'Lek

Edited February 28, 2012 by emusan

I don't post much on these forums, mostly because I'm much better at lurking than commenting. Don't take my lack of activity elsewhere as anything other than I haven't found many other threads worth commenting on. Let me also state that I belong to one of the player archetypes mentioned earlier, and I'd like to see this feature implemented.

 

There was a point made earlier that I don't think got enough response. I work for a computer networking hardware company. We also write the software that runs on our appliances. We have some bugs, as there are with any piece of software, and we have some featues that our customers ask us for. "Some" in both of these cases probably translates to "a lot" depending on your scale of numbers. In any case, for nearly every bug and for more than a few of the feature requests, the development team in our company has promised to address the issue. It might be a code fix, it might be a hardware architecture change, whatever. The thing is, sometimes our code is written....lazily, for lack of a better word. What might seem like a simple fix ("This word is spelled wrong in the GUI!") might actually be very complex and thus very hard to modify. Perhaps that word is referenced elsehwere in the code, and a change of the spelling would ruin the rest of the code that is now referencing the improper spelling. That's a very trivial example, but the main point is this: what seems easy to you might not be easy at all if you were to look at the code.

 

To ask for a timeline or a status of the fix, while not improper or uncalled for, is sometimes un-answerable, a lot of times (in my company's case) for legal reasons. If we promise you the fix by the end of March and some of our developers get sick, or it takes longer to fix the problem than we initially thought, causing the completion date to slip, we're in deep trouble. Before anybody hops on that statement, please be aware, I understand you're not asking for a completion date, simply an acknowledgement of the issue. The issue already has been acknowledged ("We're aware of it and working on it"). To say more about the completion, before the true resolution has been determined, is patently dangerous.

 

"We can handle a vague status update." Well, maybe you can, but people (in general) can't. They might take a "vague status update" to be fact, when it probably isn't yet. To be honest, if I was BioWare, I wouldn't tell you anything other than "We're working on it," right up until before I was ready to deploy the code to the Test Server. Who knows how many things can change between now and then? What if I tell you something, anything, and then for reasons that I couldn't forsee, can't deliver on that? Maybe I initially intended to allow you to romance your current companions, but due to the unavailability of the voice actors, I couldn't make it happen. Now I'm in a pickle, because I told you I'd do it and now....can't. In lieu of that, the most I'd be willing to tell you is that "we're working on it," which is true. But how many times do you want to hear that before you get frustrated and accuse me of leading you on or lying to you?

 

If I had to hazard a guess, and that's all this is because I don't work for BioWare, I'd say this issue is probably on their "list of things to do," but not at the top of the list because it doesn't prevent you from playing the game. Sure, it does prevent you from playing YOUR game, but sometimes decisions have to be made about what content will make the cut and which content won't. Apparently this content hit the cutting room floor before the game could be launched, due to whatever reason sounded good at the time. A lot of the bullet points in the patch notes seem to be things that make the game unplayable. Yes, there are a few "Uh, why are you spending time on THAT?" things, but I'd say most of the items are bug/balance fixes, which this specific feature does not fit in to.

 

I like to type a lot, so TL;DR, I support your cause on this, but I hope you are taking the software developers' perspective into account on this issue. Not everything is as easy as you might think it is.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Jalamorf

I like to type a lot, so TL;DR, I support your cause on this, but I hope you are taking the software developers' perspective into account on this issue. Not everything is as easy as you might think it is.

 

I've been in software development for the last 15 years or so working with 2 different Fortune 300 companies. I've done everything from cranking out code, to project management and everything in between. So yes, I know what working on large scale projects are like (a few of those would have made TOR look like tic-tac-toe game).

 

No we don't know exactly the how's and what's of what they need to do are, but we can make assumptions based on experience. These guys are not writing out code line by line to do content additions. There is no way with a game the scale of TOR they do all that with written code. They would need to have a development environment with (likely) custom made tools to allow them to manage game assets quickly and easily. The would have to have an interface that allows them to update assets visually (and probably a scripting language on top of that to allow them simple manipulations).

 

I could go on with examples, but the general idea is, they have to be using some sort of dev kit to build and change the game.

 

If they unbelievably do have devs sitting somewhere tapping out code to change variables or add new elements or place assets etc., that bodes very very very badly for future content additions of any kind (not just SGRA's). Content additions will be measured in years, not patch numbers.

 

The bulk of the work to get SGRA's into the game is inevitably going to be wrapped up in recording the voice overs, which even that I can't see having taken the 6 months that have already expired.

 

Is it something they can sit back and hammer out in a day? No of course not, but this isn't something I could envision taking months and months of man hours to accomplish, more like weeks if time is dedicated to it. Or they just have the worst dev tools ever created for a video game, in which case the game is doomed anyway.

 

Using man hours or some unit of effort as an excuse why this isn't in the game doesn't fly with me considering the amount of time that has elapsed. Even if they didn't start working on this till post-launch they should still be nearing or have completed this.

 

"We can handle a vague status update." Well, maybe you can, but people (in general) can't. They might take a "vague status update" to be fact, when it probably isn't yet.

 

Reading the Q&A threads and posts they make on the forums, that is the basis of most of their updates. "We're looking into it, we're working on it, no ETA yet". So they obviously are not shy about giving those kind of answers. Not that I would be content with that kind of answer (not after 6 months of waiting), but the fact they clearly can't even be bothered to make the effort is extremely grating.

 

I'd say this issue is probably on their "list of things to do," but not at the top of the list because it doesn't prevent you from playing the game

 

It prevents me from playing the game. Without the core story content I need to "live out my very own Star Wars™ saga". All my characters are currently stuck sitting in cantinas unable to advance through the content. BW seems to think companions are important to the game, so this issue should definitely be something important to fix as currently it is broken for a significant portion of the player base.

 

We're aware of it and working on it

 

Lastly just to clarify, all they have said is "we're aware of it", they've never actually stated they are or intended to "work on it".

Edited February 28, 2012 by Nozybidaj

"We can handle a vague status update." Well, maybe you can, but people (in general) can't. They might take a "vague status update" to be fact, when it probably isn't yet.

 

First, before I say anything else, welcome to the thread!

 

Your support is sincerely appreciated. And as a self-described "lurker", I'm sure that jumping into this particular thread isn't exactly the easiest way to increase your post count.

 

That said, and responding to the part of your post that I've quoted above, would you not agree that many of the answers they are already giving on these forums, and especially in the Q&A threads, are in fact exactly the kind "vague status updates" that you are referring to?

 

Why is it okay to respond vaguely to those issues, but not this one?

 

I agree that they can't give loads of unsubstantiated details that might not end up making it into the game, though I must again point out that people are not asking for that kind of information. I simply do not believe that there is not one tiny, single, scrap of information that they could provide without stepping into the dangerous territory of over-promising and under-delivering.

 

And as I mentioned before, if the point of avoiding over-promising is to make sure that they don't upset players, they might want to take a look around and see that upsetting players is exactly what they have already done. Their actions, or lack thereof, have already cost them subscriptions. And unless I hear some form of apology for having flat-out refused to speak to us at all, I won't be back even after they implement SGRA's.

 

The fact that they haven't yet implemented SGRA's is -- for me -- not a deal-breaker at all. I can certainly wait, and was prepared to wait.

 

The deal-breaker is acting as if we're not worthy of being acknowledged. And the bad will generated by that decision won't just go away when they finally do implement SGRA's. The damage has already been done, and more damage continues to be done with each passing day of silence.

 

Anyway...despite all of that, I'm still glad that you decided to stop lurking for a few moments to join us. Again, thank you for the support.

Yeah right, at this point there's no need to understand they have other priority issues: some people (me include) contest their total silence about it, like they've throwed a bone with that single statement to keep people quite and talking.

 

Come on, read the Q&A thread: they've asked idiotic questions (IMO) and left untuched what 10% of posters in the very same thread were asking about; isn't it clearly will to avoid the matter?

 

In six or more months they will throw another bone, people will continue talking about and they hope to keep you distracted with pvp/pve stuffs (Ah, pvp stuffs are fixed nearly IMMEDIATELY, offcourse; hasn't take 6 months to fix any issue or contents that has been requested, almost).

 

GG, more rakghouls for everyone!

Edited February 28, 2012 by Ayslinn_Iduviel