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Apex update

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Ilurkin's Avatar


Ilurkin
04.27.2021 , 11:02 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
I know some teams were using it on EU servers. The problem to me is not if the fight will be harder, i've done both strategies, each one of them has its ups and downs (i play on EU server), sure kiting makes the fight easier, but so does taking a team full of pts to Nahut nim, 2 sin tanks to tfb nim first boss, 4 sins/sorcs to styrak nim for the pushes. Even some tacticals can be included on the list of things that make a boss fight easier. Should they also be removed just because you're skiping a certain % of tactics when you use them? My problem is with BW taking action against something that was never a problem. If it was something like "if you stealth out and retaunt the boss, it bugs and stops doing dmg to the raid", i'd agree with them. But it's just people using their classes in a way that makes the fight easier.
Tacticals make fights easier, and it's intended to be the case. Ignoring 80% of mechanics is not as intended, if you can't see the difference there... Bw Skeleton team obviously isn't going to pump any meaningful updates/fixes however Dxun is current content, one would expect them to rollout updates to this operation first.

Ubarave's Avatar


Ubarave
04.27.2021 , 11:11 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ilurkin View Post
Tacticals make fights easier, and it's intended to be the case. Ignoring 80% of mechanics is not as intended, if you can't see the difference there... Bw Skeleton team obviously isn't going to pump any meaningful updates/fixes however Dxun is current content, one would expect them to rollout updates to this operation first.
You're telling me you straight up face tank all the trandos including ultimate hunter? How is kiting those (to delay attacks for cooldowns/ to avoid damage) any more acceptable than kiting apex?

AlexIonutPlay's Avatar


AlexIonutPlay
04.27.2021 , 12:05 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Ubarave View Post
You're telling me you straight up face tank all the trandos including ultimate hunter? How is kiting those (to delay attacks for cooldowns/ to avoid damage) any more acceptable than kiting apex?
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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.27.2021 , 12:15 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ilurkin View Post
Tacticals make fights easier, and it's intended to be the case. Ignoring 80% of mechanics is not as intended, if you can't see the difference there... Bw Skeleton team obviously isn't going to pump any meaningful updates/fixes however Dxun is current content, one would expect them to rollout updates to this operation first.
I don't consider the kiting strategy ignoring 80% of mechanics. Doing the battery you have to deal with 5 terminals. If you use the kiting strategy, you don't have to deal with 1 of them, the flares. That means, for the battery carrier, he's doing 20% less (but you have to craft more stims, so you will use that time to do something) and you gonna ignore one mechanic out of everything the apex has, but in doing so you also introduce a new one, you ignore flares to worry about kiting and face tanking, grabing stims and this also requires 2 tanks knowing how to deal with battery. Imo, this actually shows mastery of the fight, even if it makes it easier, to create this tactics is proof of how players really understood apex tactics.

Ubarave's Avatar


Ubarave
04.27.2021 , 12:19 PM | #25
It's a dynamic fight, there's supposed to be several possible strategies. Just not that one.
Imagine if they spent as much time making the npcs work as intended as they do making the players play as intended.

RussellRichter's Avatar


RussellRichter
04.27.2021 , 12:26 PM | #26
As the person who created the kite strat, It's for the best that it's getting removed. On the other hand though, it's funny to see the hypocrisy in this thread. People acting like they didn't abuse the red exploit and then defend its usage on the progression thread 9 months ago

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.27.2021 , 02:03 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by RussellRichter View Post
As the person who created the kite strat, It's for the best that it's getting removed. On the other hand though, it's funny to see the hypocrisy in this thread. People acting like they didn't abuse the red exploit and then defend its usage on the progression thread 9 months ago
Well, thanks for the reply. Could you explain to me why you consider that it's for the best? It's a serious question, i really can't see a reason for it. It doesn't seem to be an exploit of the fight, sure it makes it easier, but not in a sense that feels like cheating (at least for me). Are you on Jaydenz team btw?

RussellRichter's Avatar


RussellRichter
04.27.2021 , 02:15 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
Well, thanks for the reply. Could you explain to me why you consider that it's for the best? It's a serious question, i really can't see a reason for it. It doesn't seem to be an exploit of the fight, sure it makes it easier, but not in a sense that feels like cheating (at least for me). Are you on Jaydenz team btw?
It depends how people define exploit. Everyone seems to have their own definition and people pick and choose which cheese is fine to them and which isn't. There are double standards everywhere in these discussions. Is kiting the boss something the developers intended to be an option? clearly not as they are removing the possibility. Does kiting take advantage of any bugs/glitches? No.

I think the worst part about kiting is that it removes the output check entirely from DPS due to the boss having 15% increased damage taken for the majority of the encounter. For example, last night I played my lethality operative and healed almost the entire time and we never came close to the enrage.

While it is nice having different ways to do the boss, I don't think kiting was a healthy solution. My bigger complaint is that Bioware suddenly cares about the state of the operation 10 months into the tier. The entire operation is the most cheesable one they have ever released. Things should have been fixed ages ago. What was the point of an extended PTS cycle if they never fixed anything we reported?

And yes, I am on a team with Jaydenz on SS, but it was Origin on SF that created the kiting strat

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
04.27.2021 , 02:39 PM | #29
although i welcome the removal as the fight becomes a bit more fun when there are dps requirements as well as some mechanical execution needed, i concur its weird this is happening so late into the tier. Its similar to Izax where you could rebounder the saturation, reflect the anchors, and triple-click in p3, which was removed fairly quickly as devs agreed with most of the community that it reduced too much of the difficulty, same with kite strat, it removes any dps requirement, any need to have tanks learn battery and makes the fight really easy, i don't think anyone disagrees with that.

that said, better late than never

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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.27.2021 , 02:51 PM | #30
I see. Yeah, i can understand your pov on this and it actually makes a bit more sense now. But i still don't understand why BW is worried that the apex fight is easier and they want to make it harder, but still keeps nim crystals in game and allows us to do some nim fights with only one tank. You see, for each reason we find for changing the apex fight, i can see it happening in other fights in other ways and i'm like, this isn't fair, they decided they didn't like this one specific way of doing a fight, but pretend a lot of other things that are basically the same stays on the game. I'm not against crystals or using 1 tank on some fights to remove dps checks. It's about double standards and taking time/effort to fix things that were not an issue but we still have some bugs that are a big issue imo. Like, doing dp nim timed and you bump into more bugs on Calph that will make you wipe and miss timed. And players have to be creative to work with those bugs and find a solution when a fix would solve the problem. I've actually seen a team missing timed cause after one wipe Calph decided he was never gonna stop casting his enrage thing, so they had to go out, reset phase and timer was gone. They did get it eventually, but you see my point? Sure, if they wanna fix or change apex, go for it. But fix other stuff also, don't stop on apex. Also, if it's about the extra dmg he gets when he has 20 stacks, would make more sense to just remove this debuff from him.