Jump to content

What Am I Doing Wrong?


Aghasett

Recommended Posts

I've played almost 500 unranked matches as a Rage Jugg, and for most of that time, in terms of damage, kills, medals, etc, I almost always place somewhere in the upper half, I wanna say 60%-65% tier. Yet my win ratio is horrible, like 30%. So what am I doing wrong? Is it that I'm never in premades? I seem to be spec'd appropriately and I'm making solid kills, hitting doors, panels, etc, guarding, issuing heavy damage, and I've had quite a few MVP votes so I don't see how it could be that it's my gameplay that sucks end of story. So what am I missing? It's been too consistent a pattern to be simply bad luck. Is the system stacked against me in a way I don't realize? Pure paranoia? Any insight appreciated, this is vexing me. Edited by Aghasett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to SWTOR, where the rules are made up and the points don’t matter!

 

All references to British/American improv comedy aside, the unranked PvP in this game is very much a cooperative effort. You could be the best Jugg player on the server, but if your team doesn’t play objectives, or isn’t good at playing objectives, you lose. Period. Even in arenas, you could be saddled with a bad team and end up getting focused down 4v1.

 

Also, Rage Jugg isn’t exactly the best spec for PvP. I know you make it work, but by dint of sheer numbers, Vengeance is just better. You might find your luck changing a little bit if you switch specs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol I just switched from Vengeance yesterday, which I've always played, b/c I'd read the exact opposite of your advice - not that it's wrong - tho in fact Immoral (which I find dull gameplay) seems to be the universally accepted pvp form as you just tank em to dust. But in the 15 matches I've played since switching over to Rage, so far, no discernable impact on my kills or damage rate in any appreciable way 🤷 Edited by Aghasett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol I just switched from Vengeance yesterday, which I've always played, b/c I'd read the exact opposite of your advice - not that it's wrong - tho in fact Immoral (which I find dull gameplay) seems to be the universally accepted pvp form as you just tank em to dust. But in the 15 matches I've played since switching over to Rage, so far, no discernable impact on my kills or damage rate in any appreciable way 🤷

 

in regs, you can sit near the top of the dmg meters with any spec. the reason immortal is the defacto spec (for regs) is that you can top dmg and prot relatively easily (properly skanked). it's also the only really viable tank in ranked.

 

regs are a cluster<bleep>. the problem with juggs in arenas is that they are easily focused down with little recourse. basically, if 2-4 dps are focusing you, rage/veng are not likely to survive ~45s it takes for ED to cycle (or w/e the grit teeth reduction is). that's not much of an issue in regs. and rage does plenty of dmg so long as it's "allowed" to do so.

 

think of it like playing sniper. there are good snipers who can kite and chase/control their opponents effectively. but there are a lot more snipers (and sorcs) who light(ning) up the scoreboard in regs but would get absolutely throttled in arenas. it's the same deal with why rage works in regs: there's not a lot of focus. and anyone can sit on the back line and run through a dmg rotation when they're aren't being pressured. or smash around a bunch of clumped-up melee who aren't focusing them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've played almost 500 unranked matches as a Rage Jugg, and for most of that time, in terms of damage, kills, medals, etc, I almost always place somewhere in the upper half, I wanna say 60%-65% tier. Yet my win ratio is horrible, like 30%. So what am I doing wrong? Is it that I'm never in premades? I seem to be spec'd appropriately and I'm making solid kills, hitting doors, panels, etc, guarding, issuing heavy damage, and I've had quite a few MVP votes so I don't see how it could be that it's my gameplay that sucks end of story. So what am I missing? It's been too consistent a pattern to be simply bad luck. Is the system stacked against me in a way I don't realize? Pure paranoia? Any insight appreciated, this is vexing me.

 

Are you death matching or playing the objectives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

All references to British/American improv comedy aside, the unranked PvP in this game is very much a cooperative effort. You could be the best Jugg player on the server, but if your team doesn’t play objectives, or isn’t good at playing objectives, you lose. Period. Even in arenas, you could be saddled with a bad team and end up getting focused down 4v1.

 

100% this ^^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've played almost 500 unranked matches as a Rage Jugg, and for most of that time, in terms of damage, kills, medals, etc, I almost always place somewhere in the upper half, I wanna say 60%-65% tier. Yet my win ratio is horrible, like 30%. So what am I doing wrong? Is it that I'm never in premades? I seem to be spec'd appropriately and I'm making solid kills, hitting doors, panels, etc, guarding, issuing heavy damage, and I've had quite a few MVP votes so I don't see how it could be that it's my gameplay that sucks end of story. So what am I missing? It's been too consistent a pattern to be simply bad luck. Is the system stacked against me in a way I don't realize? Pure paranoia? Any insight appreciated, this is vexing me.

 

Top kills, damage, medals etc? Brother you are winning. "Winning" in regs doesn't mean a victory screen because you juggled Giradda's giant huttballs or sap capped a potato to take his node at the last second. That's not real pvp. Real pvp is fighting players. The vocal minority of "pvpers" will tell you otherwise and will sling mud at people who would rather just fight players and not pay attention to unneeded objs just so they can get their green regs lootbox that has some scraps and other junk in it. These people who will tell you this are also global bait in arenas. It tickles me pink to be on the "losing" team in regs having "lost" to a team that got utterly obliterated and spent most of their time running back from spawn while I spent the entire time out in the field doing PVP. Personally for me I stopped caring about objs once they made matches full cross faction. Once PVP was no longer the Empire versus the smelly Republic I really couldn't care less about it. I would even hop onto mando sometimes back then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being in a premade would definitely help, otherwise all I can offer is the very unhelpful answer that it's entirely luck of the team draw. Either you have a team who can play their class, know the objectives and use a bit of common sense, or you don't. Some days I play like a spastic melon but don't lose a single game, others I'm topping damage, objective scores or both and still can't buy a win. Really isn't any more to it than the whims of the matchmaking gods.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Top kills, damage, medals etc? Brother you are winning. "Winning" in regs doesn't mean a victory screen because you juggled Giradda's giant huttballs or sap capped a potato to take his node at the last second. That's not real pvp. Real pvp is fighting players. The vocal minority of "pvpers" will tell you otherwise and will sling mud at people who would rather just fight players and not pay attention to unneeded objs just so they can get their green regs lootbox that has some scraps and other junk in it. These people who will tell you this are also global bait in arenas. It tickles me pink to be on the "losing" team in regs having "lost" to a team that got utterly obliterated and spent most of their time running back from spawn while I spent the entire time out in the field doing PVP. Personally for me I stopped caring about objs once they made matches full cross faction. Once PVP was no longer the Empire versus the smelly Republic I really couldn't care less about it. I would even hop onto mando sometimes back then.

 

Spoken like a player who is too scared to go into ranked, where the “true” PvP happens, because he knows he’d get globalled in four seconds. Seriously, this anti-objectives attitude has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. And if you think objective players are in the minority, you’re wrong. It’s just that intelligent thoughts are stated calmly, while idiocy needs to scream. Hence, the vocal minority of people like you who think that they’re PvP gods for farming newer players and players looking to actually complete a mission.

 

Seriously, had it ever occurred to you that maybe people want to win in regs because it’s fun to win? That maybe the loot has nothing to do with it? That not everyone has the same myopic viewpoint that you and your massively undeserved ego have?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoken like a player who is too scared to go into ranked, where the “true” PvP happens, because he knows he’d get globalled in four seconds. Seriously, this anti-objectives attitude has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. And if you think objective players are in the minority, you’re wrong. It’s just that intelligent thoughts are stated calmly, while idiocy needs to scream. Hence, the vocal minority of people like you who think that they’re PvP gods for farming newer players and players looking to actually complete a mission.

 

Seriously, had it ever occurred to you that maybe people want to win in regs because it’s fun to win? That maybe the loot has nothing to do with it? That not everyone has the same myopic viewpoint that you and your massively undeserved ego have?

 

I play ranked all the time especially since they added a leaver regs lockout and the three huttballs are now unescapable. You validate my post. Especially the part about slinging mud. I was complimenting OP because he obviously knows how to PVP. He put outs numbers and gets kills and medals in a PVP mode of the game. Who is talking about farming newer players? If people want to win regs then they will make groups otherwise whining about playing a multiplayer game with 7 other people not in voice and expecting people to coordinate is a waste of time. If you have time to be typing "obj calls" in chat then you are not pvping. The only person who should have time to be typing is the dude sitting on a node. Your passive aggressive response just lumps you into that crowd of people who is on the winning team in objs who spent half the game running back to mid from spawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are solo queing then it's better to play a more self-sustaining class, because jugg without a healer is just miserable. Any rDPS is good, operative or sin too but stealth classes can backfire sometimes as not all teammates respect your role as a node guard/attacker and tend to double up on them which usually just loses the game on the spot unless you have a premade carrying you on the other side of the map. Being a decent stealther should still net you a better win rate than 30% for sure though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol I just switched from Vengeance yesterday, which I've always played, b/c I'd read the exact opposite of your advice - not that it's wrong - tho in fact Immoral (which I find dull gameplay) seems to be the universally accepted pvp form as you just tank em to dust. But in the 15 matches I've played since switching over to Rage, so far, no discernable impact on my kills or damage rate in any appreciable way 🤷

 

thats because people go skank tank

 

where you spec tank but use dps gear

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I've considered this. Been reluctant to go there with its more simplified (dull) rotation by comparison, but worth trying out I s'pose.

 

Don’t do it. You can survive nearly as long on a rage jugg and do way more damage. Just use the grit tooth tactical if you feel you are dying too much. Personally I don’t use it and I’m very hard to kill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t do it. You can survive nearly as long on a rage jugg and do way more damage. Just use the grit tooth tactical if you feel you are dying too much. Personally I don’t use it and I’m very hard to kill.

 

Yep I went back to Rage with Grit Teeth, it's the most fun, fast-action gameplay if for nothing else. Tho I'm still consistently facing a 4 to 1 loss ratio while remaining on the upper half of the leader board. So weird. I often find that I'm the "Ops Leader" in these regs when I barely have experience with PVP, but being that I have a high-rated toon, I wonder if I'm being up-tiered based on that, and teams aren't formulated "by random draw." So if I'm the "Leader" in a match, I know we're instantly screwed, because why would I be? I'm a noob.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep I went back to Rage with Grit Teeth, it's the most fun, fast-action gameplay if for nothing else. Tho I'm still consistently facing a 4 to 1 loss ratio while remaining on the upper half of the leader board. So weird. I often find that I'm the "Ops Leader" in these regs when I barely have experience with PVP, but being that I have a high-rated toon, I wonder if I'm being up-tiered based on that, and teams aren't formulated "by random draw." So if I'm the "Leader" in a match, I know we're instantly screwed, because why would I be? I'm a noob.

 

That leader thing is random as far as I can tell. I wouldn’t stress about it.

 

As for being up-tiered, it’s more possible your hidden ELO stats (that Bioware won’t share with us) are putting you with less skilled players to carry. Unfortunately without Bioware disclosing how they track this hidden ELO, it’s impossible for us to test the theory.

 

But there is one thing I notice when the matchmaking wants me to carry teams during low queue pops. I get put with teams that are significantly lower skill than me and I’m often better than any single player on the other team, but the other team has better players than the rest of my team. So what seems to happen is my higher skill is supposed to average out my lower skilled team mates to match up against the medium skilled guys on the other team.

 

What ends up happening is I play 3 games in a row with the low skill guys and mostly lose because it ends up being 3v1 once my guys are dead. Then it puts me on the team for one match with medium skilled guys and all the lowest skilled guys and one medium skilled player is on the other team. When we win, the matchmaking goes straight back to putting me with the lowest skilled guys again for 3 matches.

 

The only time this doesn’t happen is if there is a better player in the queue at the same time and then we are always put against each other. When that happens I actually get some good balanced matches. 1 good player, 1 medium player and 2 lowish skilled players on both teams can be fun.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for being up-tiered, it’s more possible your hidden ELO stats (that Bioware won’t share with us) are putting you with less skilled players to carry.

 

This is exactly what I've suspected for a long time. There's no other explanation. And if so, it's at my expense, which pisses me off mightily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

which pisses me off mightily.

 

You and me both.

 

Do you often play outside of prime time or when the pop is slow? I find it much worse during those times than when the queue is busy. I now give up playing pvp if the pops slow too much because there’s a high probability that I’ll be called apon to continuously carry teams against better players than my guys.

 

To be fair, no one likes to lose, but it’s acceptable when the system feels fair. And it’s a terrible experience losing over and over when the cards are stacked against you. You can’t even leave the match cause of the lock out timers and even if you did, there’s a good chance you’d get the same guys again.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, no one likes to lose, but it’s acceptable when the system feels fair.

 

as someone who normally queues solo, I'm going to tell you what better players have told me in the past: control the teammates that you can. you're allowed to control half your team (your whole team if an arena pops). do that, and you're guaranteed to have a good chunk of the team (enough to win most WZs) doing things to help you.

 

now I'll paraphrase myself to a complainer about losing ELO in solo ranked: Imagine queuing solo into a group game and then complaining about the having to carry those teammates.

 

I have less sympathy for reg players worried about hidden ELO b/c you can easily control most of your teammates..if you want to.

 

totally with you about the deserter debuff though. just to get into a different pop rhythm. it's a mess. but it's also regs. it's meaningless and super casual. ppl be too serious about regs.

Edited by CheesyEZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

as someone who normally queues solo, I'm going to tell you what better players have told me in the past: control the teammates that you can. you're allowed to control half your team (your whole team if an arena pops). do that, and you're guaranteed to have a good chunk of the team (enough to win most WZs) doing things to help you.

 

now I'll paraphrase myself to a complainer about losing ELO in solo ranked: Imagine queuing solo into a group game and then complaining about the having to carry those teammates.

 

I have less sympathy for reg players worried about hidden ELO b/c you can easily control most of your teammates..if you want to.

 

totally with you about the deserter debuff though. just to get into a different pop rhythm. it's a mess. but it's also regs. it's meaningless and super casual. ppl be too serious about regs.

 

Most of my issues with fairness are in reg 4s and not as much in objective pvp. It’s harder to tell how much you will be expected to carry your team in 8s until you see the scoreboard at the end.

 

I don’t usually like to premade when it’s only popping 4s because that often kills the queue when a premade starts popping against solo pugs. Also keep in mind that not all of my matches are max lvl, some are lowbie and Mid lvl arena (usually they are on Darth Malgus and Satele because I’ve no lvl 75s there). I win way more matches on DM and Satele than on Star Forge and I have to play with 300+ms ping on DM.

 

Surprisingly Star Forge has the worst balance for me in lowbie and Mid arena. Which has me thinking the hidden ELO might be legacy based or part based and not just character based because even Alts I’ve never played in pvp seem to feel like I’m expected to carry teams.

 

Where as my lowbie and mid Alts on DM and Satele don’t have this issue, even ones that I’ve done 30+ games on have more balanced matchmaking than the Star Forge ones.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You and me both.

 

Do you often play outside of prime time or when the pop is slow?

 

In no way a nationalistic thing or whatever, so no offense!!! to anyone reading, but a lotta Aussie's hit my server around midnight+ PST, and, I dunno, maybe they don't get a lotta play time, but that's where the bulk of my kills and wins are.

Edited by Aghasett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In no way a nationalistic thing or whatever, so no offense!!! to anyone reading, but a lotta Aussie's hit my server around midnight+ PST, and, I dunno, maybe they don't get a lotta play time, but that's where the bulk of my kills and wins are.

 

What server are you on?

 

Just remember any Aussies or other APAC players have 200+ms ping that gives you an advantage in most scenarios. Ie, if I’m playing on my Jugg against a NA Jugg or Mara, they will always be able to leap to me first because of the ping. It’s a forgone conclusion if they are any good.

 

Sadly, when we lost our APAC servers and then our west coast servers, we had to learn to play with higher ping each time which rules out ranked most of the time for us because you miss split second DCDs or reflects or interrupt or hit immune players and you can be blown up before your abilities actually activate. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve died through force bubble while on my Sorc.

 

Surprisingly, DMs 300+ms ping isn’t too extreme to get used to if I’m just playing regs. It’s funny sometimes cause my ability activation can be like another form of RNG. Like I know I hit “x” ability and I saw it activate, but it didn’t actually go off against the other player in time or sometimes at all. There is a lot of guess work involved with 300+ms. And you can’t play in an orthodox way of other players will always get their activation in first. I’ve got some really weird tactics that I honed in 1v1 against my old pvp guild.on Harbinger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm immortal build but I don't use offensive gear, Though I get kills I like to Harass rather than just kill, It's pretty funny but people have the DPS mentality in PVP and I get told all the time I shouldn't be in defensive gear, but Immortal is just so much more fun in defensive gear for me.

 

It all falls down to what you want to do on your Jugg, but on a GOOD match I'm lucky to break 1mil DPS, but I can also hold off 3 guys for a significant amount of time while help arrives if I'm defending a node, I'd like to point out that I'm often in the upper tiers of the finished game ratings. and I'll attribute this to ASSISTING and GUARDING other players in kills while defending nodes and this has often netted me good ratings on the score board.

 

I know I'm in the minority and honestly I can get kills on occasion in solo's but I'm really there to buy time for my team.

 

I would try assist killing and see if that improves your over all rating in games. if someone is killing someone that doesn't take you away from your objectives join in throw guard on your mate and do it every time you see the opportunity and see if this helps your ratings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
×
×
  • Create New...