Something that I have seen people say these last few years, is that many are saddened by the fact they can't choose what default choices are made for them when they skip story content. Whether they do this by simply accepting a mission from their ship terminal or by using an instant level 60/70 token, they have no control over the story choices that are being made for them.

One might say to this, that if those people care about story choices so much that they should simply play the stories and make the choices themselves. I have to admit, this is not a bad argument. However, there is a lot of story to cover ingame and it may at times be somewhat of a chore to run all of those stories on every single toon. Sometimes players may simply feel like starting at KotFE, Iokath or Ossus, or somewhere else in the story. But they still want to have some influence over what choices are being made for them when they skip story.

Bioware has implemented a mechanism in their games before, where you could choose what story choices are made in previous story content. The Tapestry for Dragon Age Inquisition is a prime example for that, but even Mass Effect had those comic style narrations where you could change and pick what choices were made during key moments of the story. Since SWTOR is just as heavy on story as those two games - because storytelling will always remain one of the cornerstones of this game - I was wondering why a similar mechanism is non-existent in this game. A screen alike the Tapestry in DAI that pops up when you want to skip story.

In that screen, key choices for each class story and all the ensuing expansions or story updates could be shown to the player, including the possibility of choosing romances. You could simply click the option to go for default choices if you don't care that much for what choices are made, or tweak and prod yourself, to create the backstory that is just perfect for your vision of that character.

Would something of the sorts be desirable? Would players make use of a such a feature? Or do people have a better idea in regard to making choices when skipping story? I am interested in reading people's thoughts!

Something that I have seen people say these last few years, is that many are saddened by the fact they can't choose what default choices are made for them when they skip story content. Whether they do this by simply accepting a mission from their ship terminal or by using an instant level 60/70 token, they have no control over the story choices that are being made for them.

The crater where people have been beating on the few molecules remaining of that dead horse is over there ==>. :)

(Sorry, just teasing.)

One might say to this, that if those people care about story choices so much that they should simply play the stories and make the choices themselves. I have to admit, this is not a bad argument.

More to the point, whether it's a good or bad argument, it is *BioWare's* argument as well. I'm feeling too lazy this afternoon to actually hunt down the reference, but it's definitely something they (I think it was either Keith or Charles) mentioned some while back.

However, there is a lot of story to cover ingame and it may at times be somewhat of a chore to run all of those stories on every single toon. Sometimes players may simply feel like starting at KotFE, Iokath or Ossus, or somewhere else in the story. But they still want to have some influence over what choices are being made for them when they skip story.

The most influence I've wanted to have revolves around whether my characters dark out KotFE/ET or light it out, independently of their factions.

Would something of the sorts be desirable? Would players make use of a such a feature? Or do people have a better idea in regard to making choices when skipping story? I am interested in reading people's thoughts!

I think the best we can hope for is some sort of toggle that lets us choose which of the two current paths we follow based on a pushbutton rather than solely on our character's faction. That would go a long way to resolve people's most pressing concerns in this regard, not least because one of the prime things in the romances, especially with Blondie, is watching the cutscenes as you go, and that doesn't happen if you skip over things.

That would give us a large chunk of what we'd like (I think most of us want more than just that) for a relatively (compared to a more comprehensive solution) small chunk of development work. Both paths already exist and would, I think, require relatively few changes:

Dark on Pub:

Light on Imp:

Yes, we'd probably *all* like more - even me - but it's essential to *also* have realistic expectations about what the studio is likely to build for us.

More to the point, whether it's a good or bad argument, it is *BioWare's* argument as well. I'm feeling too lazy this afternoon to actually hunt down the reference, but it's definitely something they (I think it was either Keith or Charles) mentioned some while back.

Charles Boyd has actually mentioned that he would be interested in expanding the token/boost/skipping system, in the sense that it would become more player-controlled. In October 2019 I had asked him over Twitter about Class Titles becoming unlockable for token/boost/skip characters and this was his reply to my Tweet:

"It's not on the schedule currently, but seems like a reasonable request for the future. I'd love to expand our token/boost/skipping system overall, make it more granular/player-controlled, but that's likely a ways off as it's a huge undertaking." - Charles Boyd on Twitter

Even if it would be a huge undertaking, I think it would be well worth the time investment. I realise that initially the boost/skip tokens weren't meant to involve a lot of story elements initially, as they were meant to skip story. But I believe their use has changed as time went by and players would love to have control over the default choices that are made when story is skipped. It might be interesting for Bioware to try to cater to this change in the token's nature, as I could see people buying more of these tokens and using them if they gave the player some form of control of the choices that are made with a boost/token/skip.

At the very least story choices should have been made based on alignment rather than faction.

What I would love to see is the ability to skip individual chapters. I only enjoy about a third of FE/ET. If I could skip the chapters that bore me, I'd be much more inclined to play my way through the rest. Then if an individual chapter is skipped that has an important choice, let us make that choice.

In addition to picking our choices when skipping, I'd love an option to see the choices I made with my characters. With so many alts and story contents, I forgot what I did with my characters, especially when an event references some really old decisions. A dendrogram like Detroit Become Human would be great but is probably too much to ask, a simple list would be enough to track my character's footsteps.

That could easily worked with a Codex entry where you could read through the choices your character made. The codex entry could pop up after you have made the choices and created the character and then the major story choices vary upon what you picked. It's not as flashy as what you describe, yeah, but it would be in the scope of what is possible within the game at this time.

That could easily worked with a Codex entry where you could read through the choices your character made. The codex entry could pop up after you have made the choices and created the character and then the major story choices vary upon what you picked. It's not as flashy as what you describe, yeah, but it would be in the scope of what is possible within the game at this time.

I'm not sure that the Codex is the natural place to *put* it, but yes. GW2 has exactly this feature, where you can review your story progress and the various decisions you made during the story. Most of those decisions have no significance outside the story branch you followed then, except one in particular during Chapter 3 of the original Personal Story, but it's still nice to be able to see what they were.

In GW2 it's done as part of what is effectively the mission log, since there aren't any missions in the classic MMORPG sense outside of the main story-line, approximately equivalent to the class story, Ilum, Makeb, SoR and friends, KotFE, KotET, Traitor Arc, JUS and Onslaught. The log shows the evolution of the story, and it's really useful for a number of things, including some aspects of the GW2 equivalent of Fashion Wars: The Old Catwalk. (Do I want to use the Priory skins on this character? Check story. This character went Order of Whispers, so no.)

So I support having this information being visible in a single location. How well it would fill in the information for existing characters is up for grabs, and there's surely *some* information that we'd like to see there but that isn't really stored anywhere.

Characters do not kill either of those companions, they fail to save one, not the same thing as choosing to murder one. The choice is not light or dark or even Republic or Empire since both characters are from the Empire. Should have been a Republic companion and a Imperial companion so it would be choosing a side not just a person.

The defaults don't really effect the story except one character is missing from Imp when you meet with your Alliance staff after Jedi Under Siege. And that's a very minor change. His presence does allow for light or dark choice.

The defaults dont actually force light or dark points on you just the results of the choice, ie some NPCs alive or dead. I just chose to ignore the fact that my lightside Imp suddenly went mad and killed people he/she would normally have spared. I figure he/she was under extreme stress and not themselves. And dakrside Pub must have temporarily lost their senses and showed weakness.

The defaults don't really effect the story except one character is missing from Imp when you meet with your Alliance staff after Jedi Under Siege. And that's a very minor change. His presence does allow for light or dark choice.

There's a line during Mek-Sha where you can mention that character and what he asked for to someone.

I'm not sure that the Codex is the natural place to *put* it, but yes. GW2 has exactly this feature, where you can review your story progress and the various decisions you made during the story. Most of those decisions have no significance outside the story branch you followed then, except one in particular during Chapter 3 of the original Personal Story, but it's still nice to be able to see what they were.

 

In GW2 it's done as part of what is effectively the mission log, since there aren't any missions in the classic MMORPG sense outside of the main story-line, approximately equivalent to the class story, Ilum, Makeb, SoR and friends, KotFE, KotET, Traitor Arc, JUS and Onslaught. The log shows the evolution of the story, and it's really useful for a number of things, including some aspects of the GW2 equivalent of Fashion Wars: The Old Catwalk. (Do I want to use the Priory skins on this character? Check story. This character went Order of Whispers, so no.)

 

So I support having this information being visible in a single location. How well it would fill in the information for existing characters is up for grabs, and there's surely *some* information that we'd like to see there but that isn't really stored anywhere.

I definitely agree. I think the companion screen was sort of meant to reflect the idea that you speak of, but the companion screen doesn't reflect all the choices you make and sadly can have the tendency to experience bugs at times.

But it's not so much as only seeing the choices you made (albeit that would be a huge plus), but simply being able to make those choices yourself when skipping story or using the skip token from the CM. It doesn't need to be an elaborate system, but if it could include like the key choices for the class stories and expansions, that would be neat. For example, being able to choose whether the Sith Inquisitor ended up as Imperius, Occlus or Nox, or whether the Sith Warrior spared Baras or killed them, or whether the Imperial Agent sided with Jadus and so on, and so forth. One would think that such a screen with toggles wouldn't be too taxing on the dev team, but of course, one never knows for sure.

 

More to the point, whether it's a good or bad argument, it is *BioWare's* argument as well. I'm feeling too lazy this afternoon to actually hunt down the reference, but it's definitely something they (I think it was either Keith or Charles) mentioned some while back.

 

People keep sticking to their "play it if you want to decide" argument and fail to realize how awful such argument is. Using "Bioware's argument" doesn't make it a solid one.

From Bioware's perspective, more time for players to get what they want. For instance, have a dark jedi that reign over the galaxy and romance someone. Player would have to roll all over the class story + KOTFE + KOTET to see that story before jumping into later story. That would take may be week or month depending on how much time that player has. This would may be lead to the player expand his/her sub one more month to complete this.

This may be good business for Bioware. But I fail to see how it is good for us, players.

The pain of rolling all over the class story and needless to say, how painful it is to playthrough KOTFE + KOTET more than once, just to have the character they have in mind? As more and more story and expansions will be added, do you expect player to roll through class story + KOTFE + KOTET + A + B to get to C?

Then this will come the argument that "It's because you want this character to be A, B, C, so you have to work to get it." My pardon, but have I mentioned that playing through those contents over and over again feels like doing chores, not playing game? Since when that we, as players, log through the game and not having any fun at all anymore? As if the story has more replayability, then this may not be that bad. But I've seen how bad KOTFE and KOTET are. The thought of going through these contents again just to save Arcann as an Imp character? Let SCORPIO merge with Iokath as Imp character? I don't want to think of it.

I can't speak for everyone but I play SWTOR because it has options, dialogues to chose from. I can have my own fantasy on my character's characteristic, what are his/her perspectives etc. That's what driven me to make alts and do more stories. By suggesting that we have to playthrough everything again and again, just by having me extend my subscription 1 or few more months? How about making good story that have replayability? Bioware can make KOTFE fit into 8 classes. Instead, they made only one linear boring story. And expect me to play 8 classes throught it with same story just to have some minor change of choices that we want? What done is done, at least gives players more variety of choices to do what they want to do.

Currently, I have 2 tokens and have zero incentive on using them. Having known that I can't have my own choices with my store, the only incentive I can think of is using it for group content and PVP.

Please, at least have an argument that is not from Official's perspective.

Well, for me, I don't really care. I've boosted 1 character directly to 70 and skipped much of KOTFE/ET on a few others. In none of those case has the default choices affected me in any way.

The default choices are mostly just what companions live or die. None of my characters happen to use any of the affected companions anyway.

I'd have to agree that those few people who want a particular companion AND want to skip, will need to make a choice. Is saving Torian rather than Vette (for example) really worth doing KOTFE?

Just something I'd like to toss in on the Torian/Vette issue....

A bounty hunter doesn't have to accept Mandalore The Vindicated's offer to become Mandalorian and join Mandalore's clan, so would a non-Mandalorian BH even necessarily chose to save Torian (Mandalorian) over Vette (not)?

On the other side; would a dark side Sith Warrior, one who has kept Vette as a slave, etc. not possibly decide to sacrifice Vette in favor of Torian seeing him as a more advantageous ally?

Faction, class, Alignment, race, in-game choices... there's so many possible factors that could be applied to the decision that it does seem slightly unfair not to at least allow the player some control. It could be something as simple as a mission in the vein of "An Error In The Records" (that allowed players to adjust their Lana romance around a bug at one point) where the character is being given a medical exam and the doctor is asking them what happened for certain events to check their memory, the answers setting the flags for the skipped content...

 

Faction, class, Alignment, race, in-game choices... there's so many possible factors that could be applied to the decision that it does seem slightly unfair not to at least allow the player some control. It could be something as simple as a mission in the vein of "An Error In The Records" (that allowed players to adjust their Lana romance around a bug at one point) where the character is being given a medical exam and the doctor is asking them what happened for certain events to check their memory, the answers setting the flags for the skipped content...

That would be ideal.

On the other side; would a dark side Sith Warrior, one who has kept Vette as a slave, etc. not possibly decide to sacrifice Vette in favor of Torian seeing him as a more advantageous ally?

On the other hand, if you are a Sith warrior who uses Jaesa and Lana as your companions, would it matter who got saved?

Faction, class, Alignment, race, in-game choices... there's so many possible factors that could be applied to the decision that it does seem slightly unfair not to at least allow the player some control.

You do have 'some' control. You can control whether you accept the default choices or play the relevant content. 🙂

Considering how much these tokens are, I think the player should have the choice. As for well play the entire story if it bothers you so much! well kind of defeats the idea of buying the item in the first place. If BW have that as their fall back answer, then just remove the item all together. Game story choices aside, I also think players should be able to pick their crew skills as well. If you buy a few of these does anyone want everyone of their characters to have the same skills?

Badly thought out item and implementation.

OMG this is what I've wanted since 4.0 dropped. I still haven't taken a toon through kotxx completely, even the insta 60s, and I've only had a couple take the leap and bypass them; both pub side. Being able to choose light/dark, LI/noLI, etc would make a big difference to me.

=-=-=-=

Players simply need to decide what is more important to them:

1. Making every decision along the way

OR

2. Skip content.

Can't have it both ways.

People keep sticking to their "play it if you want to decide" argument and fail to realize how awful such argument is. Using "Bioware's argument" doesn't make it a solid one.

I didn't say it makes it a solid one. I said that it's *BioWare's* view of how it should be, and therefore that lends a great deal of *practicalities* weight to the argument. I don't think the overall thing is completely correct - at the very least it should base the path on your alignment toggle instead of your faction - although almost anything more detailed would rapidly become unweildy from a UI point of view, to say nothing of the arguments about which decisions should be included, nor of the ongoing evolution of the contents of that path-choosing UI as more story content is released with more decisions that should or should not be added to the list.

I didn't say it makes it a solid one. I said that it's *BioWare's* view of how it should be, and therefore that lends a great deal of *practicalities* weight to the argument. I don't think the overall thing is completely correct - at the very least it should base the path on your alignment toggle instead of your faction - although almost anything more detailed would rapidly become unweildy from a UI point of view, to say nothing of the arguments about which decisions should be included, nor of the ongoing evolution of the contents of that path-choosing UI as more story content is released with more decisions that should or should not be added to the list.

If you use a token boost then what would the alignment toggle be? Unless they add that into the character creation UI because otherwise you don't have a chance to select your toggle before getting into the game.

The problem may simply be a programming one, especially with regards to token boosted characters. Such characters drop you right into the beginning of whatever part of the story (beginning of KotFE or KotET unless that's changed) so when exactly would someone be able to choose whatever choices are to be made?

And there are so many choices that can be made. A lot of them may not have a huge impact but even if a choice results in a single line of dialogue being changed then the game needs to know which one to use so all of those choices would need to be included.

What would happen if someone boosted a character class they've never played before? Now they're being given this huge list of choices without any context unless the game is going to completely summarize the story for them?

But let's say we ignore token boosted characters and we're only talking about characters that want to skip KotFE/KotET/Iokath/JUS (not even sure you can skip JUS yet). As has been mentioned that's still a ton of choices (with varying degrees of consequences or lack thereof).

My personal opinion is the devs have more important things to work on. The logistics alone sounds like it would be a godawful headache to me not to mention trying to actually implement it. But maybe they'll surprise us. Stranger things have happened.

If you use a token boost then what would the alignment toggle be? Unless they add that into the character creation UI because otherwise you don't have a chance to select your toggle before getting into the game.

 

The problem may simply be a programming one, especially with regards to token boosted characters. Such characters drop you right into the beginning of whatever part of the story (beginning of KotFE or KotET unless that's changed) so when exactly would someone be able to choose whatever choices are to be made?

 

And there are so many choices that can be made. A lot of them may not have a huge impact but even if a choice results in a single line of dialogue being changed then the game needs to know which one to use so all of those choices would need to be included.

 

What would happen if someone boosted a character class they've never played before? Now they're being given this huge list of choices without any context unless the game is going to completely summarize the story for them?

 

But let's say we ignore token boosted characters and we're only talking about characters that want to skip KotFE/KotET/Iokath/JUS (not even sure you can skip JUS yet). As has been mentioned that's still a ton of choices (with varying degrees of consequences or lack thereof).

 

My personal opinion is the devs have more important things to work on. The logistics alone sounds like it would be a godawful headache to me not to mention trying to actually implement it. But maybe they'll surprise us. Stranger things have happened.

The way to do it would be a toggle upon character creation just like the "are you sure u want to" popup. same thing just "choose light or dark"

If you use a token boost then what would the alignment toggle be? Unless they add that into the character creation UI because otherwise you don't have a chance to select your toggle before getting into the game.

Pretty much exactly that. A setting in the final panel, probably just below or just above the entry box for the character's name, that by default is set to Light for Pubsiders and Dark for Impsiders, but that we can change, and that setting determines your initial Alignment Toggle position.

And for all starting points, whether you start at 1, 60, 70 or whatever the next "start later in the story" position is.

I'm actually glad this was brought back up again.

I've been playing on and off since release. During this time I've made a bunch of different characters and gotten them through various parts of the story. My Marauder was my most recent main.

I'm back after a recent break and hadn't gotten the opportunity to play Onslaught and wanted to check out the new story. I wasn't feeling my Marauder anymore so I switched back to my one character who started it all, my Assassin. However, I didn't want to go through KOTET/KOTFE or whatever they are again just to play the new expansion: I already did them on both my Mara and my Merc, so I decided to skip for the first time ever in playing the game.

On my previous characters, I got through the whole arc with Senya and saved Arcann. Well, he's dead now. Same with Vette.

I haven't really dived into my companions just yet to see who else is dead but I almost feel like the character is tainted now. I should have realized exactly what skipping was going to do but trusted that it would be done right.

I've been looking around to see if I can replay some of the chapters or just reset the expansion to go back and make a different decision but it doesn't seem to be possible, and that's frustrating - especially for a story driven game like this one.

So yeah, just a slightly different perspective I guess: I've already played the story, I've already done the other expansions, I just wanted to get my other character up to date and I feel like I was punished for it.