Curious about thoughts around this. 12 points is nothing to a pvper, but losing streaks, poor environment for maturity, skill gaps, gearing gaps, inability to make minor choices like map/mode exclusion and the issue of experienced premades vs solos/unskilled premades are actively discouraging. Pvp is a great method for gearing currently, but it remains with the issues that have long hung over its head, so how would you guys feel about lowering the points from 12, to say 9?

I disagree with PvP being a great gearing method.

Sure it's nice for getting a box or two early, but conquest is ultimately the easiest and quickest method for transitioning to modded gear from Hyde and Zeek.

While sure lowering it helps make it a better method it still wouldn't be that 'great' if it did happen. It would definitely speed up conquest farming a ton though. A lot of people are there just to conquest farms instead of gearing and or PvPing for the sake of it.

Curious about thoughts around this. 12 points is nothing to a pvper, but losing streaks, poor environment for maturity, skill gaps, gearing gaps, inability to make minor choices like map/mode exclusion and the issue of experienced premades vs solos/unskilled premades are actively discouraging. Pvp is a great method for gearing currently, but it remains with the issues that have long hung over its head, so how would you guys feel about lowering the points from 12, to say 9?

 

The devs don't pvp and they don't read the forums. They don't care. But please direct your suggestion to this post:

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=1007776

 

Maybe if we put all our suggestions in 1 thread it will be easier for them to not read all the other posts and not read the aformentioned post slightly less..

Edited September 23, 2022 by CretinUseelad

No, absolutely not. Look, I get that PvP can be a drag sometimes. Really, I do. But you get 1 point on a loss. That means that the maximum amount of matches you’d have to play for the weekly is 12. Unless you only have like half an hour a day to play SWTOR, that’s easily doable in a week. I’m all for lowering the difficulty bar in a few places, but this isn’t lowering it. This is burying it in the core of the planet. Edited September 24, 2022 by Enticy

I disagree with PvP being a great gearing method.

Sure it's nice for getting a box or two early, but conquest is ultimately the easiest and quickest method for transitioning to modded gear from Hyde and Zeek.

While sure lowering it helps make it a better method it still wouldn't be that 'great' if it did happen. It would definitely speed up conquest farming a ton though. A lot of people are there just to conquest farms instead of gearing and or PvPing for the sake of it.

 

Its far better than the Flashpoint path, offers almost double the reward of the GSF path which already is a far different and often negative experience for most, and Ops isn't as inclusive. Some would say less interesting, given how old some of the most run Op content is too. Its not amazing, but its great relative to its 'competition' because the upgrade path is faster. Conquest farming literally goes hand-in-hand with doing any form of content, so I'm not sure how much the two differ when hitting your personal weekly CQ goal is an addition to the pvp path.

 

No, absolutely not. Look, I get that PvP can be a drag sometimes. Really, I do. But you get 1 point on a loss. That means that the maximum amount of matches you’d have to play for the weekly is 12. Unless you only have like half an hour a day to play SWTOR, that’s easily doable in a week. I’m all for lowering the difficulty bar in a few places, but this isn’t lowering it. This is burying it in the core of the planet.

 

Its not about what's doable. One could argue 20 points is doable, 30, maybe even 40 in a week, it does not address what I'm talking about though. 12 points can easily be over half a dozen matches and the quality of pvp in the current iteration of the game WHILE GEARING is poor. Getting trashed can always happen regardless of gear, but why elongate that grind? You can do the weekly 3 times a week on a single character, right? I am not seeing how reducing how much one HAS TO participate reduces the quality of anything of note. The people who are less skilled or uninterested can get in and out. Losses feel less punishing and wins more rewarding because you can get to the next weekly. If you're all for lowering the difficulty bar (note: its not difficult, its tedious), I am curious as to what you would propose?

See the problem is your not thinking about this in terms of overall game design.

If they lower the pvp weekly than more inflation happens in the in game economy than what is already going on.

Weeklies will be completed quicker= More Tech Frags= More RPS/OPM= More inflation and devaluation continues to credit problem we have.

 

Giving is never the answer. The Real Answer is to have PVP Gear with expertise. Make a Base level of it for free. Then charge combat medals for shells with mod-able gear/mods. MVP Votes gets more medals.

 

Multiple Problems Solved:

1.Bolster dosn't matter anymore/cant be abused.

2. Base level of pvp gear for everyone=equal playing field

3. Customization for us min/maxers out there

4. PVP isn't affecting the economy.

5. Encourage playing pvp with combat medals Also makes them worth something.

6. Makes the MVP Voting system actually usefull

On 9/24/2022 at 10:56 PM, DarthCasus said:

Its far better than the Flashpoint path, offers almost double the reward of the GSF path which already is a far different and often negative experience for most, and Ops isn't as inclusive. Some would say less interesting, given how old some of the most run Op content is too. Its not amazing, but its great relative to its 'competition' because the upgrade path is faster. Conquest farming literally goes hand-in-hand with doing any form of content, so I'm not sure how much the two differ when hitting your personal weekly CQ goal is an addition to the pvp path.

 

Flash point path is indeed terrible. Operation also isn't good either. 
But neither of those being good suddenly makes PvP a better path than conquest into modded gear. 
Going only through PvP is a terrible method along with having a terrible time against already geared players.
I am not really trying to debate what's best or what isn't but rather the sake of not wanting to ruin players experiences in PvP.
Most people are not going to want to sit there and get bodied in pvp until they get geared - if they even manage to stick with the game at that point.

Sure conquest is tied to everything, but PvP is one of the most rewarding if not thee most rewarding activity you can do regarding conquest point farming in mass. 
It's also incredibly easy. 

 

 

On 9/25/2022 at 1:07 PM, TmoneyTime said:

3. Customization for us min/maxers out there

Define customization for min-maxing? Because what is currently being done you consider an exploit.
Even though current min-max is working within bounds of how gearing was setup. 
What's an exploit if anything is abusing matrix cube with 340s, this isn't a good relic and is giving more stats than it's supposed to. 
This makes up for the stat loss you'd normally get trying to min-max 340s, it's also incredibly easy to do along with just being better in every way.
For reference they'd hot fixed purple matrix cubes already, the rest are soon I hope, so this will likely be gone soon.

But, mix matching with 340s as I have explained in other threads isn't making use of anything that uses bolster at all.
306 to 340 relics all use the same relic procs for example. So it's reasonable if you can gain more stats else where to use lower relics as they offer the least total stats ever since critical was removed from them, we had critical on them briefly but it definitely helped in 5.0. The next pieces to give the least stats are wrist and belt.
This isn't the first time it's done either.

While I am not for nor against it, it is a decent gain for players with 340s available to them, however, it's not as drastic as tmoney makes it out to be as in like 5k+ DPS gain. No, it's more in the realms of reality of like sub 1k. 
Now for matrix cube abusing with 340's that's way more stats and we're talking about something different there. I wouldn't go as far to say its 5k, but it's definitely a large gain. I would not be surprised in most cases as it will always vary it's likely a net gain of 1k at min. 

As for expertise - I know people are against and for it mostly for the wrong reasons.
I am for it, why?
Expertise prevents gear score min-maxing nearly altogether. 
PvP gear is already relatively easy to get so, I don't think it'd be too drastic of a change for players. It'd also just be nice to see the bottom tier of PvP gear to come up. 
Now the truly trick part is that you cannot leave your left side out, if you do that leaves the left side open to gear score min-maxing. This means ultimately give us customization. Let us trade our implants for the stats we want - I don't know why that's still not a thing. Along with just applying expertise onto 328 and below gear naturally. While it'd seem pointless to just give everyone expertise - it removes the new player getting destroyed in a mere nano second the moment someone zooms by them. Granted they'll still get beat up pretty quickly, it will help them. But what does it help in the bigger picture? Inclusivity along with stopping gear score min-maxing. 

While it'd definitely kill any real form of min-maxing for more stats it'd put everyone on a way more even field. 
Min-maxing would really only be 'customizing' your gear, definitely not too fun but, does get rid of that nagging feeling of players wanting 340's to truly min-max. 

Anyway, sorry for all that. Things can be fixed - will they? Eh. I enjoy the game either way. 
 

if all you do is lose, and you end up completing the weekly by losing 12 games in a row, perhaps its time to look at other reasons to why that is the case than just blame external factors heh

On 9/24/2022 at 10:24 AM, Enticy said:

No, absolutely not. Look, I get that PvP can be a drag sometimes. Really, I do. But you get 1 point on a loss. That means that the maximum amount of matches you’d have to play for the weekly is 12. Unless you only have like half an hour a day to play SWTOR, that’s easily doable in a week. I’m all for lowering the difficulty bar in a few places, but this isn’t lowering it. This is burying it in the core of the planet.

totally agree with this

like Enticy  wrote, you still get a point for losing.  It would be nice to get 3 for losing and 1 for wining 🤪

On 10/2/2022 at 10:16 AM, RikuvonDrake said:

if all you do is lose, and you end up completing the weekly by losing 12 games in a row, perhaps its time to look at other reasons to why that is the case than just blame external factors heh

I never claimed to be the best pvp player nor capable of carrying anyone, but I doubt I'd be the reason for any losses in 8v8 warzones (I never get arenas thankfully). But yeah, great contribution. 

 

On 9/25/2022 at 1:07 PM, TmoneyTime said:

See the problem is your not thinking about this in terms of overall game design.

If they lower the pvp weekly than more inflation happens in the in game economy than what is already going on.

Weeklies will be completed quicker= More Tech Frags= More RPS/OPM= More inflation and devaluation continues to credit problem we have.

 

Giving is never the answer. The Real Answer is to have PVP Gear with expertise. Make a Base level of it for free. Then charge combat medals for shells with mod-able gear/mods. MVP Votes gets more medals.

 

Multiple Problems Solved:

1.Bolster dosn't matter anymore/cant be abused.

2. Base level of pvp gear for everyone=equal playing field

3. Customization for us min/maxers out there

4. PVP isn't affecting the economy.

5. Encourage playing pvp with combat medals Also makes them worth something.

6. Makes the MVP Voting system actually usefull

Pvp is hardly the only activity linked to inflation, something that has long been an issue before the introduction of RPM/OEMs and little is being done to even combat that anyhow. I agree on bringing back expertise, as it would at least play as an equalizer, but how does increasing the quality of the pvp experience not also add to inflation? I'm wondering if you're seeing numbers I'm not seeing. How do you know there's a direct link between pvp weekly completion and the inflation of the crafting mats when there are already a number of factors that also contribute?

For one, is it a bad thing that ordinary players also have access to the same materials if they grind it out? Are these the players raising the artificial prices on the mats, or is it the crafters? Or the people who are regular pvpers who earn at a fast rate? How many do you suppose have alts lined up to bring in the frags? What of the influx of credits over the past few years and everything else that has also gone up in price?

My point is it is a bit strange to tag inflation as an issue that is directly affected by a single activity and thus a reason for not changing things. I also do take issue with your framing of "giving", when the topic is related to how much has to or should be done to EARN the reward. No one is asking to be given anything, why that framing?

On 9/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, DarthCasus said:

Curious about thoughts around this. 12 points is nothing to a pvper, but losing streaks, poor environment for maturity, skill gaps, gearing gaps, inability to make minor choices like map/mode exclusion and the issue of experienced premades vs solos/unskilled premades are actively discouraging. Pvp is a great method for gearing currently, but it remains with the issues that have long hung over its head, so how would you guys feel about lowering the points from 12, to say 9?

I can relate to your frustration, of course. I even have days where I anticipate particularly frustrating runs towards my weekly. Tuesdays are bad. And Fridays, too I think. I had a really bad evening a few weeks ago where I quite literally lost 12 warzones in a row. By the end, I thought I was going to throw my headphones across the room from the pure angst of the experience.

However, that's absurdly rare of an occurrence, in my experience. Even when the best premades in the game are playing, I usually manage to eek out at least one or two victories that edge me closer than not to my weekly's requirement. So that even if I'm getting frustrated over getting my healing face smashed into the floor over and over, I do manage to get something accomplished faster than it would've been otherwise.

I mean, I can remember very, very clearly when there was no "victories count for 3" in the warzones. Heck, I remember when the weekly requirement was for 20 matches, even. So if it came down to it, I'd rather have the weekly work as it is now, currently, rather than revert to some of the more angsty, painful days gone past. The way it is now is far improved, I mean. And rather than relying upon whatever metric the Devs might assume is "most fair" -- I'd say the status quo is pretty good. Nothing against the Devs, either. It's just, someone else's definition of "fair" can be rather capricious, in fact.

I assume you're running your weekly solo-mode, most often? Are you guilded? Consider teaming up with a guildie to make a warzone run more enjoyable, anyway. It does help. I run solo a lot of the time, but my guild also has scheduled pvp events where we group together and chat back and forth through the more angsty matches. Just keep your chin up, regardless.