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Is The Outlander (force user)/Darth Nox/Etc The most powerful force user ever?


Sullavin

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To kick it off, no... While it’s not canonical Vitiate is, he’s pretty much a god. But aside from Vitiate, our swtor force user is the most powerful Jedi or Sith etc in the SW universe in my fan boy opinion...In regards to Vitiate being the reigning champ, we have no idea where our force user goes in the future, especially with Darth Nox. Anyway... here’s my reasoning.

 

Every play through of the eternal throne expansions watching my force user char get slapped around by Arcann or Vaylin or Valky, irks me. I’m like “what?” “But” and I start making arguments in my head as to why my awesome character is still a bad *** - *arcann flings him/her across the room beats you up and then pretty much kills you* “ what but!” You get my point.

I question why BioWare would do this. When we’ve seen our character be OP and awesome up until this point.

 

For example Nox while still young and apprentice-y starts kicking Darth asses, Jedi master asses, all kinds of ***. Becomes a Darth him/herself super quick. Kills a council member 1v1 while still a young Sith (ancient Sith dark council member —- the lore suggests that kind of Sith must be stupid stupid stupid powerful) and Nox wipes the floor with him. NOT TO MENTION absorbs the power and spirit of all these crazy powerful people Nox kills.

 

Our Jedi knight again takes on all comers and achieves things that suggest he/she is crazy powerful and skywalker-esque special regarding his/her power in the galaxy. Takes on defeats the UBER powerful Scourge as any hand of the emperor is AND the voice.

 

So again your character is clearly incredibly powerful and bad ***. Yet Eternal Throne expansions rob us of that feeling quite a bit... here’s why, it’s a story for all characters. There had to be in between aspects of the story that crossed across all stories. Ie valkorions protection and all the villains being presented as insurmountable. So it’s a cross story issue that saved BioWare from writing 1 million pages of dialogue. So there’s that being the main reason....

 

However if like me it still bothers you... here’s the thing, who’s left standing at the end of it all? The Outlander. The Outlander fought and defeated these characters (yes with allllll the help presented in the story script for cross-story) and was the one left standing. Revan was broken by the emperor - We all know what a beast Revan was! Yet the outlander lived with him in his/her head - resisted him (if you choose too) and still got through it all and defeated The Who’s who. Again.

Finally... of all the people Valk chose for his bits n pieces in the galaxy it wasn’t crazy powerful Arcann or Vaylin or Satele or Matt or anyone. It was your character that Valk himself said had the most potential of anyone and the one he picked.

 

So while we visually see the outlander tossed around in the expansions, it’s purely for cross story reasons. The Outlander wins and has much more story and development left for us to see regarding force feats. Your outlander is the force user with the mostest in the SW universe besides daddy Valk (uncanonically)

 

Let me know if you agree or disagree or whatever! May the force serve you.

Edited by Sullavin
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That doesn’t match the story or the dialogue in game as far as I can see. Or any of the points laid out above for that matter. But each to their own!

I take it though it wouldn’t bother you if that were BioWares intentions for the story? That the player gets lucky

Edited by Sullavin
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No. If we're counting canon and non canon force users, which we'd obviously have to do if the Outlander is to be in this discussion then there are many many other Force Users that have done some way more insanely powerful stuff. Like ol Palpy creating a Force Storm so big it created a hyperspace wormhole that decimated an entire fleet, or even just Revan. Revan was probably way stronger than the Outlander.

 

Then if you wanted to go really out of the way you'd just say Abeloth. Abeloth could do crazy stuff like actually teleport, create avatars or copies of herself, change her appearence at will and create a force-flash powerful enough to throw off the visual sensors of ships across an entire star system. Then there's obviously 'The Father' though it was always up in the air if The Ones even existed in actual physical form so i won't count him if we're not counting Vitiate for the same reason.

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No. If we're counting canon and non canon force users, which we'd obviously have to do if the Outlander is to be in this discussion then there are many many other Force Users that have done some way more insanely powerful stuff. Like ol Palpy creating a Force Storm so big it created a hyperspace wormhole that decimated an entire fleet, or even just Revan. Revan was probably way stronger than the Outlander.

 

Then if you wanted to go really out of the way you'd just say Abeloth. Abeloth could do crazy stuff like actually teleport, create avatars or copies of herself, change her appearence at will and create a force-flash powerful enough to throw off the visual sensors of ships across an entire star system. Then there's obviously 'The Father' though it was always up in the air if The Ones even existed in actual physical form so i won't count him if we're not counting Vitiate for the same reason.

 

For sure, I left out chars like Abeloth and the Children. I mean more Jedi and Sith at least in beginning like Revan, Vader, palp, (just not Valk) Exactly though, we haven’t seen the outlander do CRAZY powerful things. But the outlander did do what Revan could not regarding the emporor. Also defeated Revan in the game. You also have in game dialogue from the likes of Valkorion saying how powerful you are “No one is more worthy of the throne than you, not even my children” or literally saying the outlander has the most potential of anyone. Empress Acina (gotta be damn powerful, she’s the empress. While I know it was circumstantial) admittedly says she is not powerful enough to beat Vaylin but that the Outlander is. So the dialogue says otherwise. And again, in the end I’m disappointed that we don’t see these amazing feats. But it is seemingly down to cross story matching in that regard. As dialogue and outcome keep having the outlander as the victor. The outlander is also nowhere near as old or studied as Valk or palpatine etc. So lots more to come.

 

I believe BioWares intentions are to have us be the one. But it’s handled poorly. Same way force unleashed handled it poorly in the opposite direction with home boy pulling a star destroyer out of the sky. It’s down to oversights I can only hope BioWare show us our full power more dramatically in the future.

 

Lastly video games rarely show the lead character as 2nd or 3rd best. So I doubt that’s the case here. If it were the case, would you feel satisfied playing a game where your character is like...4th? Lol. It works for Jedi Fallen order. But that’s different!

Edited by Sullavin
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No. If we're counting canon and non canon force users, which we'd obviously have to do if the Outlander is to be in this discussion then there are many many other Force Users that have done some way more insanely powerful stuff. Like ol Palpy creating a Force Storm so big it created a hyperspace wormhole that decimated an entire fleet, or even just Revan. Revan was probably way stronger than the Outlander.

 

Then if you wanted to go really out of the way you'd just say Abeloth. Abeloth could do crazy stuff like actually teleport, create avatars or copies of herself, change her appearence at will and create a force-flash powerful enough to throw off the visual sensors of ships across an entire star system. Then there's obviously 'The Father' though it was always up in the air if The Ones even existed in actual physical form so i won't count him if we're not counting Vitiate for the same reason.

 

Yup I mean revan was able to separate himself so that he could survive the torture he went under. I think that the JK is more powerful and more powerful then him is Lana. We see how sensitive Lana is to the force. Without Lana Revan would have made it alot further in his plans. Without lana the outlander would be dead

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For example Nox while still young and apprentice-y starts kicking Darth asses, Jedi master asses, all kinds of ***. Becomes a Darth him/herself super quick. Kills a council member 1v1 while still a young Sith (ancient Sith dark council member —- the lore suggests that kind of Sith must be stupid stupid stupid powerful) and Nox wipes the floor with him. NOT TO MENTION absorbs the power and spirit of all these crazy powerful people Nox kills.

Lore nitpicks...

 

Skotia was a special case, with *two* specific vulnerabilities that the Inquisitor (whether Nox-to-be, Occlus-to-be or Imperius-to-be) exploited.

 

"Master" when talking about Jedi is, like "Lord" when talking about Sith, a somewhat nebulous term. Various NPCs on Dromund Kaas will address you as "my Lord" from the moment you step out of the spaceport, just as they call your Jedi characters "Master Jedi" on Coruscant. So unless you *know* that the Jedi in question is a Master (e.g. he calls himself that), it's unwise to assume it.

 

Becoming a Darth still took three years(1). That's pretty quick, but not as quick as you seem to be implying.

 

The Inquisitor did *not* "kill a council member 1v1". Darth Mortis killed Darth Thanaton after the (Lord) Inquisitor and his companion (possibly a Force-resistant Dashade) won the fight.

 

In the original versions of all the final class-story battles, the fight was much harder than today, at a level that cannot be called "wipe the floor with". If you're looking at a target to blame for that change, it's called "Level Sync".

 

So, among the ordinary Sith (in which category we include people like Marr, Thanaton, Blobular - oops, Baras - and so on, but not e.g. Tenebrae or Palpatine) the Inquisitor ends up top of the heap, but he is not crushingly more powerful than the others.

 

(1) The implied duration of each class-story chapter is about a year.

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Funny thing. During Chapter 1 of the character story the Consular does something with ease that Lana struggles with doing during Chapter 1 of Fallen Empire. See, Lana, that's how you open a door. I do agree with you, OP, that FE/ET seems to downgrade our character's power if they're a force user. I think FE/ET would have been so much better if they had given some slight nods to our character's background. For example, while dueling Arcann a Knight/Warrior could have held their own, while a Sage/Sorc could have resisted some of Arcann's force powers. Oh well, FE/ET is what it is and nothing is going to change, and, you're right, we are the one left standing at the end.
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Funny thing. During Chapter 1 of the character story the Consular does something with ease that Lana struggles with doing during Chapter 1 of Fallen Empire. See, Lana, that's how you open a door. I do agree with you, OP, that FE/ET seems to downgrade our character's power if they're a force user. I think FE/ET would have been so much better if they had given some slight nods to our character's background. For example, while dueling Arcann a Knight/Warrior could have held their own, while a Sage/Sorc could have resisted some of Arcann's force powers. Oh well, FE/ET is what it is and nothing is going to change, and, you're right, we are the one left standing at the end.

 

This.

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Lore nitpicks...

 

Skotia was a special case, with *two* specific vulnerabilities that the Inquisitor (whether Nox-to-be, Occlus-to-be or Imperius-to-be) exploited.

 

"Master" when talking about Jedi is, like "Lord" when talking about Sith, a somewhat nebulous term. Various NPCs on Dromund Kaas will address you as "my Lord" from the moment you step out of the spaceport, just as they call your Jedi characters "Master Jedi" on Coruscant. So unless you *know* that the Jedi in question is a Master (e.g. he calls himself that), it's unwise to assume it.

 

Becoming a Darth still took three years(1). That's pretty quick, but not as quick as you seem to be implying.

 

The Inquisitor did *not* "kill a council member 1v1". Darth Mortis killed Darth Thanaton after the (Lord) Inquisitor and his companion (possibly a Force-resistant Dashade) won the fight.

 

In the original versions of all the final class-story battles, the fight was much harder than today, at a level that cannot be called "wipe the floor with". If you're looking at a target to blame for that change, it's called "Level Sync".

 

So, among the ordinary Sith (in which category we include people like Marr, Thanaton, Blobular - oops, Baras - and so on, but not e.g. Tenebrae or Palpatine) the Inquisitor ends up top of the heap, but he is not crushingly more powerful than the others.

 

(1) The implied duration of each class-story Is

 

Ok so thanks for your thought out response. And as for the comment before yours... the Lana bit is mad...Nothing in the story implies Lana is more powerful than our force user. It does the exact opposite time and time again, clearly she’s powerful but the story/dialogue and actions in game imply that she is considerably less powerful than the outlander. Ranging all the way from her not fighting Arcann instead of the outlander to her flat out saying she’s not as powerful. Also 3 years fresh out of the academy is about what I was implying. That’s insanely fast. And in the story yes you do beat masters and darths very early...a semantics conversation about that seems a weird one to have.

 

As for having a companion, that is simply part of the game mechanic. By that same token one of the only fights in kotor1 we have with out TWO companions is against Malak and if you’re not pumped to the gills with stims and healthpacks during that fight you’re not winning. But what - Malak is more powerful than Revan? No. It’s down to game mechanics and cross story issues. IE a bounty hunter needs a way to beat these guys in Swtor. It shouldn’t be possible. But with all the extra help it is. But again story wise it allowed for BioWare to save PAAAAGES of dialogue to have the needed level of help For non force chars also apply to our force user.

 

Lastly to see so many arguments FOR saying the outlander isn’t all that and more. Do players like the idea that the outlander is in fact not that powerful? I struggle to understand the enjoyment in that while we’re all living out our Star Wars fantasies in SWTOR... who’s fantasy is ”hey I’d love to be a kind of powerful dark lord of the sith” 😂 I do not get it.

Edited by Sullavin
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I mean it's obvious and not every interesting but Grandmaster Luke Skywalker could also easily beat the Outlander. The stuff you've come up against in game pales in comparison to the stuff Luke did during his life in the novels and stuff. Though obviously it's no fun to just count him since he's obviously the mainest of main characters in the Star Wars lore. So obviously he's going to be the strongest.
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I mean it's obvious and not every interesting but Grandmaster Luke Skywalker could also easily beat the Outlander. The stuff you've come up against in game pales in comparison to the stuff Luke did during his life in the novels and stuff. Though obviously it's no fun to just count him since he's obviously the mainest of main characters in the Star Wars lore. So obviously he's going to be the strongest.

 

Absolutely. I’m in 2 minds about that. Only because the general jist seems to be that ancient sith and force users are much more powerful. So given that our outlander is of an ancient era I kind of look at later eras as remnants of an old one. But I guess overall Luke is the one! Except for the most recent films Luke doing what the emporor did with force projection killed Luke and not the emporor. There’s always something. Also again the films decide not to show us what Luke is truly capable of. I hope the outlander doesn’t go the same way

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Absolutely. I’m in 2 minds about that. Only because the general jist seems to be that ancient sith and force users are much more powerful. So given that our outlander is of an ancient era I kind of look at later eras as remnants of an old one. But I guess overall Luke is the one! Except for the most recent films Luke doing what the emporor did with force projection killed Luke and not the emporor. There’s always something. Also again the films decide not to show us what Luke is truly capable of. I hope the outlander doesn’t go the same way

 

Pretty sure when they talk ancient sith and jedi they are ancient by the time KOTOR is. Not SWTOR but KOTOR the jedi and sith that where ancient by the time KOTOR timeline was the present present. Think Tulak Hord ancient.

The Outlander is powerful as Darth Nox but unlike the other force classes Darth Nox is weaker then before the start of KOTFE and stays like that until now. Do you know why?

Valkorian ate his ghosts you know the ghosts who gave him tons of power and immortality. Valkorian pretty much made him weaker.

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Yeah, when they refer to ancient Sith they mean guys like Tulak Hord or Naga Sadow. The Sith that formed the original Dark Council and founded the Sith. Not a bunch of randoms coming from a Sith Academy. Though i honesty don't think time matters so much since there are people incredibly strong in the force in all era's. Like Revan, or Luke Skywalker. I mean the Outlanders accomplishments are honestly only really achieved through working with other allies or various Deus Ex machina items and abilities we see used once or twice.

 

I mean if we went purely lore and story wise out of all of the playable force user characters then the Sith Sorcerer would be by a mile the most powerful, since you have the ability to literally absorb the souls and abilities of powerful force ghosts and add them to your own. That character would be legit primary antagonist material. Sure, to get the most out of it you have to get them to willingly join you and then you're stuck with them nagging you occasionally but still. Though actually in game that side of the storyline is barely explored whatsoever ability wise. It just for some reason goes away and is never mentioned again. . .Like any Sith would just give up that kind of insane power.

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I don’t know, again I haven’t read anything from any of the above posts that counters what the dialogue and the game itself actually says in regard to how much of a total beast and super crazy powerful character you are in SWTOR. Anything “but the in game happenings with our force user versus the Valkorion bunch in kotfe” says (literally... and over and over) that we are a total power house. And regarding kotet/kotfe etc what we see the force user go through again that seems to be a cross story issue from BioWare - and not representative of what the dialogue says and how the story is written. We also have more to come regarding what we see the outlander do. Despite the Jedi knight surpassing even anakins achievements (the guy with the THE most potential ever) even younger. When Anakin was older than our outlander he got whooped by obiwan. The JK slapped the voice of the emporor among other powerhouses around.

 

There’s no answer to it really. Obvious choices are Luke and Palp and Valk. Tulak Hord Is the man if we reeeeaallly take the lore in to things. But the outlander might get solidified in there sooner rather than later. Going solely off the story and dialogue and the outlanders achievements he/she is already a giant contender.

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I would say the Jedi Knight is technically the most powerful, because they are the only force user that you can play that was chosen by the force itself. The story for the JK, SOR, KOTFE, and KOTET, all conform to the prophecy first introduced in the Revan novel and later referenced in the Jedi Knight story by Scourge. The Revan novel, as is with all the the other novels written to promote this game, are canon in this games lore.

 

In my mind, as far as SW is concerned, the chosen ones trump everyone else.

 

As we see on Voss, the 'chosen one' isn't necessarily the most powerful. Simply the one who is chosen by the Force.to complete a task

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As we see on Voss, the 'chosen one' isn't necessarily the most powerful. Simply the one who is chosen by the Force.to complete a task

 

Power does not matter in the end if you can take the big bad by surprise you will do the trick. Best example Vader killing Sidious or something like that.

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I would say the Jedi Knight is technically the most powerful, because they are the only force user that you can play that was chosen by the force itself. The story for the JK, SOR, KOTFE, and KOTET, all conform to the prophecy first introduced in the Revan novel and later referenced in the Jedi Knight story by Scourge. The Revan novel, as is with all the the other novels written to promote this game, are canon in this games lore.

 

In my mind, as far as SW is concerned, the chosen ones trump everyone else.

 

I can dig it! Maybe. But also the wrath has things stated about him like Revan was never as powerful a sith as he is now. That’s damn powerful. My main is Nox and we all know what a beast the sith inq becomes in the story - but either way I like the JK thinking!

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I can dig it! Maybe. But also the wrath has things stated about him like Revan was never as powerful a sith as he is now. That’s damn powerful. My main is Nox and we all know what a beast the sith inq becomes in the story - but either way I like the JK thinking!

 

Nah Nox is the saddest he went from above average sith to an invincible very powerful beast then lost everything. Now Nox has to do the work like Imperius and the other force using classes to get more powerful what is he an jedi or light side user or something. Nox go eat more ghosts.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Pretty sure when they talk ancient sith and jedi they are ancient by the time KOTOR is. Not SWTOR but KOTOR the jedi and sith that where ancient by the time KOTOR timeline was the present present. Think Tulak Hord ancient.

The Outlander is powerful as Darth Nox but unlike the other force classes Darth Nox is weaker then before the start of KOTFE and stays like that until now. Do you know why?

Valkorian ate his ghosts you know the ghosts who gave him tons of power and immortality. Valkorian pretty much made him weaker.

 

I always viewed the ghosts as a shortcut to make up for the fact that, unlike the other force using class's who trained off screen for years, the Inquisitor literally didn't start training in the force until the start of the story. Even before getting them Kallig was always stated to be incredibly powerful in terms of raw strength and potential and ended the first part of their story by giving a Darth level sith a hard fight despite having had something like a year of training by that point (though in the end they did indeed lose and needed Khem to save them). But by the current day they have had several more years to train and had access to many ancient sith secrets to learn from thanks to their dark council resources so they have had time to catch up with the other classes at their plateaus of power even without the ghosts (also, they probably got some other extra benefits from having their body rebuilt besides being a better ghost cage on top of having more time to get good). All Valkorion removing your other ghosts did was bring them back down to the level of the other force users, not take them from being even and drop them down to lower.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the most powerful force user in the galaxy is unknown.

 

It's probably some ancient Dathomir Shaman who performs their force tricks for the tribe and does nothing spectacular in the big picture. Maybe heals people or forecasts the weather accurately or something like that which the force can help them with.

Edited by Lhancelot
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