I've recently created a new Jedi Shadow with the intent of getting a steam achievement (due to missing a certain quest tied to one), and decided to play PvP during every part of the levelling process from level 10-75. This also proved a good opportunity for me, someone who doesn't really want ability pruning for PvE and has been testing the PTS, to look at PvP with a new perspective.

 

From my experience, I could mentally create a graph portraying my levels of enjoyment in PvP on the Y axis and current level on the X axis. Now that I'm at level 75, the graph looks like a bell curve. As you might expect, enjoyment starts off pretty low due to the complete lack of abilities - I had forgotten that the Shadow doesn't even gain their first defensive until around level 24. As I gained more abilities core to my rotation, force speed, combat cloak and my first two defensives, I began enjoying PvP a lot more. This was between the mid levels, roughly 30s to early 40s and at the high end of the level 10-42 PvP bracket.

 

As soon as I entered the second bracket - levels 43-74 - my enjoyment started decreasing. This was because the number of defensives that other classes gained, utilities advantages, the amount of abilities that slow, knockback and / or stun all drastically increased to a point of frustration. This is even more noticeable on a melee class which doesn't gain a "leap" ability until level 51. Bear in mind that this isn't even level 75 yet, tacticals and set bonuses have no impact in this bracket and yet my level of enjoyment as a melee class was already significantly reduced. CC is the single least enjoyable part of PvP for me. "Stun Wars" is sadly an appropriate name for higher level PvP.

 

The worst feeling when playing a game, is when you aren't allowed to physically play the game because of CC. Overwhelming defensives is a close second. I did get into an arena vs 4 Juggernauts - that's 4 full heals, 4 reflects, 4 hard and aoe soft stuns etc. Yes the odds of this happening are slim, but when your team has powertechs and shadow/sins with weak defensives, practically no self heals and you aren't coordinating in voice chat, there is no chance. (Broken matchmaking is a completely separate topic.)

 

I've seen other posts complaining that set bonuses and tacticals are what makes PvP tedious and unenjoyable - but that's only a small part of the issue. Even without tacticals and set bonus gear, the sheer quantity of CC abilities and defensives on certain classes is completely and utterly oppressive. There were many times when I'd be stunlocked and just take my hands off my keyboard because I don't have my stun breaker (and yes, I do know how white bar works). Gaining tacticals and set bonus gear at level 75 only drives this issue further, but the point of frustration has already been reached.

 

I still don't like losing the quantity of abilities that we are losing for PvE, but, for PvP? I cannot wait to see a drastic reduction in the number of stuns and defensive cooldowns. I also sincerely hope that ranged classes lose a large number of their mobility and cc tools - or melee classes gain a larger number of passives and abilities to combat them (such as the mandatory utility Egress for a Shadow which allows you to remove and ignore movement impairing effects for a couple seconds on a 15s cooldown). Some classes need these tools due to weaker overall defensives, but others absolutely do not. Melee has always been treated poorly compared to ranged classes in my opinion due to CC, slows and anti-melee boss mechanics in PvE - and the rebalancing of classes and content is a golden opportunity to change this.

 

We'll have to wait and see how PvE fights are rebalanced, but I already think that PvP will be in a better state (especially after things like 100% crit chance PTS Sentinel and high uptime stim boost concealment Operatives are balanced out at a later PTS stage).

Edited September 12, 2021 by LordCamTheGreat

As soon as I entered the second bracket - levels 43-74 - ....

Bear in mind that this isn't even level 75 yet, tacticals and set bonuses have no impact in this bracket and yet my level of enjoyment as a melee class was already significantly reduced

 

just a heads up that levels 70-74 do get access to set bonus gear from Ossus vendors. if you're rep'd with Ossus faction, you get 258s instead of 242s.

Edited September 12, 2021 by CheesyEZ

just a heads up that levels 70-74 do get access to set bonus gear from Ossus vendors. if you're rep'd with Ossus faction, you get 258s instead of 242s.

 

I know that the 70-74 set bonus gear exists, but their impact is much more limited than that of level 75 gear. Most of the 70-74 gear from memory do things like +2-5% damage dealt and an auto crit once every 30 seconds. Not as game breaking as the set bonuses we've seen during Onslaught. You also level from 70-74 so fast that you'll likely not bother getting 70-74 set gear unless you go out of your way to do it. Further, the bracket extends from 43-74 so the poor experiences aren't just limited to going up against players who may or may not be fully geared between 70-74.

 

I was probably wrong to deal in absolutes when yes, a small fraction of that bracket can potentially get set bonuses, but the same points remain.

Edited September 12, 2021 by LordCamTheGreat

The shriveled up, slowly dying optimist in me would like to think that 7.0 will bring much needed balance and an end to the more frustrating aspects of PvP. But, the realist in me figures that what will actually happen is most classes will lose viability in PvP while one or two will be even more beefed up than before by the loss of their reliable counters. Or worse, premades will figure out group compositions based on covering for missing abilities and/or passives and we’ll be in the same boat we’re in now.

Theoretically pruning is also being done to allow for easier and quicker balance changes by the devs - at least from what they've said. There will always be meta classes but the optimist in me hopes that balance patches will occur far more frequently than once per expansion which is more or less what we currently have to deal wtih.

Lots of good points and I agree with it whole heartedly, all I'm gonna say is I feel like SWTOR pvp is absolute trash as it stands right now.

Now I can't solely blame that on the developers because as another poster stated, the community will likely find a way to still cheese any changes that may come around.

 

this game devolves around PVP I've noticed and the community is as much to blame as the games developers.

 

Thankyou for showing your feelings about the PVP scene I could not agree more with you! I essentially had the same experience you did.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Toonicker